Club Dichotomies vs Quadra Dichotomies

[Igxfl]

I'm becoming less and less convinced of the usefulness of N/S and F/T. They seem to just promote misconceptions and shaky typings. Even after checking for them in a lot of people, I still can't really tell what these dichotomies are supposed to look like, and basically every description I can find more or less boils down to something like emotion/reason and generalities/details. Honestly, I'm about ready to consign them to the old conceptual scrapheap.

Instead of thinking about type primarily through temperament and club dichotomies, then, why not think with temperament and quadra dichotomies? Thus, an EIE is a Merry Decisive Extrovert. An ESI is a Serious Decisive Introvert. Forget Introverted Thinking, it's Introverted Merriness! Extroverted Sensation? It's Extroverted Decisiveness. Basically, Judicious and Decisive could define the irrational functions, while Merry and Serious could define the rational ones.

Of course, this isn't to say that the system needs to work this way, or even that it's more correct. In fact, it's mainly just an alternate way of naming things. However, I've found that when typing people or considering how type would affect a person's actions, it helps greatly to hide the hackneyed N/S and F/T for a while, so as not to get hung up on the baggage that the labels N, S, F, and T carry. On the other hand, Jud/Dec and Mer/Ser, while not as immediately obvious, seem to be much more reliable, and tend to result in much more reasonable assumptions.

[krieger]

I'm becoming less and less convinced of the usefulness of N/S and F/T.

if you're breaking things down this far you should probably just reject socionics entirely. don't be like the man that asked the doctor to cure his brother who thought he was a chicken but wanted to retain the supply of eggs.

[Cat King Cole]

Except the Sensing dichotomy is a way of generalizing the way Sensing works. Both and work from details to pictures.

If you're curious, check out the socionics.us pages on the dichotomies after reading the socionist blog's articles on them. It'll all make sense.

[Trevor]

Does discarding the club dichotomies entail discarding the clubs too?

[Trevor]

i favor typing by club over typing by quandra

[Azeroffs]

Yes, T/F and N/S are misleading dichotomies that should be jettisoned from general use.

Which aren't?

[krieger]

you can only cut so many things out of the theory before it becomes a useless relic.

[Cat King Cole]

^Says the man with the axe.

[munenori2]

Alright guys, let's compromise! How about we type introverts by clubs and extroverts by temperaments?

[FDG]

If you're using other reinin dichotomies to type people you're implictly using S-N and T-F aswell. Your ESI example: serious decisive result introvert. Introvert + result + serious means sensing, adding decisive means that the type must be feeling. Et voilà.
Anyway usually the quickest way to determine someone's type is 1) determine temperament 2) determine club. If you have trouble determining temperament in real-life interactions...well you're hopeless

[Jarno]

dichotomies are often quickly visible.

You have to get the right feel for it.

Sensors are always focused/talking about things in the direct reality.
Intuitives... not. That's how you spot intuitives, you don't know what they focus on, but it ain't direct reality.

From an intuitive viewpoint like my own sensors seem busy with mundane, boring tasks.


Logicals, reasonable, strict and correct, ethicals a bit more flair. Easy to spot.

[krieger]

everything in socionics is a bastardization by definition. it's annoying when people go "OMG, YOU CAN'T DO THAT, THAT'S BASTARDIZATION" not realizing that that was the point all along.