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    Default Socionics and You

    In my opinion, I think Socionics only explains a facet of the human personality, while neglecting to cover ground on other areas. For instance you can use Enneagram stackings as an example of something that covers areas of the human personality that are not covered at all by Socionics. If you had to put it in percentage wise, what would be your best guess on how much Socionics covers? If I had to take a wild guess, I'd say it might cover around a quarter of your complete personality more or less.
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    I find it constricting that someone has a mental model of me by just three letters and it's as though this system is mapping out which kind of person is good for you (yes, I know there are differences among people) but some people might interpret this as "discrimination" (I don't quite know the word to use here).

    However this system serves as a starting point to know myself because I don't have any internal reference point to base myself as a person.

    That being said I feel as though this a label that is stuck onto you and you can't do anything about it. It's just frustrating.

    I foresee this post being flamed.
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    Socionics covers very well the relational dynamics between people, but it sucks at predicting static personality characters (i.e. political preferences, musical taste, interaction style, pastimes, level of emotional intensity, intellectual interests etc.). That's why many people who try to type others by referring to their love of sports, cars, musical groups, aggressivness, etc. are bound to fail.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    In my opinion, I think Socionics only explains a facet of the human personality, while neglecting to cover ground on other areas.
    this is not your opinion, this is a fact, which socionics doesn't deny.

    Socionics only claims to say something about information exchange.

    Why does everybody claim that socionics is a complete personality theory, where does it say that? please give source.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Why does everybody claim that socionics is a complete personality theory, where does it say that? please give source.
    I say that when I'm arguing while multitasking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Why does everybody claim that socionics is a complete personality theory, where does it say that? please give source.
    I say that when I'm arguing while multitasking.
    Lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwace View Post
    I find it constricting that someone has a mental model of me by just three letters and it's as though this system is mapping out which kind of person is good for you (yes, I know there are differences among people) but some people might interpret this as "discrimination" (I don't quite know the word to use here).

    However this system serves as a starting point to know myself because I don't have any internal reference point to base myself as a person.

    That being said I feel as though this a label that is stuck onto you and you can't do anything about it. It's just frustrating.

    I foresee this post being flamed.
    mhm. i think the reason its constricting is because it involves strict laws that have to point both backwards and forwards in order to have predictive power. eg: person X displays traits indicative of Fe and Ni therefore person X is beta NF ---- beta NFs have the following traits and relationship with my type therefore person X has the following traits and relationship with me. without the second half of that, socionics becomes nothing more than a vocabulary. but accepting the second half means objectifying people - seeing people replaced by theoretical constructs is dehumanizing and there is no two ways about it.

    as for knowing yourself. sorry if this question seems banal, but what the hell are you actually expecting to find? you can swim around inside yourself for a thousand years and you're not going to find some kind of magical glowing ball. who you are is constantly changing, cells dying and being replaced. who you are is whoever you are this very second. theres this article i linked in my sig because it resonated with me a lot. its about this study about introspection which showed that if you ask somebody something about themselves that they dont really know, they will end up just making something up. we do this to ourselves.

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    Making things up always makes things interesting so long as you don't ever take anything so seriously. Like kassie says everything changes.

    I think socionics accounts for an infinitesimal percentage of one's personality. Jung was against typing because he believed that instead of being a means or tool of understanding, it becomes a game where we start inventing things to land ourselves and people in a certain type for our own reasons.

    That being said, I'm very interested in playing it ^^

    Oh yea I'm trying to get some lighter fluid now so I can flame uwace's post, but I don't have a match to get it started. Anyone providing?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwace View Post
    and it's as though this system is mapping out which kind of person is good for you
    of course it is! why not feel lucky that you have discovered such useful knowledge? many people out there don't know what kind of people they are compatible with, and spend a lot of time trying to find the right person. socionics makes it a hell of a lot easier to narrow down potentially good partners.

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    How's school, Glam?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    well, thank you

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    What's that supposed to mean?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    Like kassie says everything changes.
    Kassie says that because she is influenced. I don't dispute it is not the real she, but she did undergo a change. Besides, you agreeing with her, makes you less of ILE, or maybe more of a one, eh ?

    Anyway, you want to keep it real, keep it real, like really real. No use to hide and pretend, the door will hit you back.

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    absurd, you need to find a new obsession. i nominate wa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    absurd, you need to find a new obsession. i nominate wa.
    This is not an obsession. You've made things damn clear, so I'll just be bluntly honest with you.

    You're a fence sitter, the moment you realise it, the better. You just parrot things, without even checking it.

    "Hey, look at me, I'm not into socionics, but I do still give a damn." You're knee deep in it, trying to fight it. You just get deeper and deeper.

    I've seen you consider ESI. Haha! Really ? Come on, get real. I've heard you say to me, I'm a daydreamer, etc. Typical ESI...

    Stop lying to yourself Kassie, it's for your best. And WA has a crush on some, I don't know, gym going cunt, so I'm off the hook

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    see, this is what you've been indirectly been talking about for days. this is why i have told you to be more direct. now you come out with it.

    my official position is that socionics is bullshit. my feelings are more complicated and i can't change them. me not typing EII is not a rejection of you. my rejection of you is a rejection of you. it doesn't matter where i stand on socionics, i am still fed up with your shit. if i was EII i would be fed up with it, if i was ESI i would be fed up with it, if i was SLE i would be fed up with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    see, this is what you've been indirectly been talking about for days. this is why i have told you to be more direct. now you come out with it.
    I didn't. I think you're mistaking yourself, as in, only yourself, for quite a number of people who do the same on here. I said numerous times I didn't mean anyone in particular. You've been quite different and nice to me, and that's why, I did stick up for you, no matter what. Whatever it takes. I mean, there was not a great amount of people who did that.

    As for your indirect treatment of my humble and innocent person, you've said quite a lot of things, indirectly of course. I wanted to talk, say things, but you do not want to listen.

    my official position is that socionics is bullshit. my feelings are more complicated and i can't change them. me not typing EII is not a rejection of you. my rejection of you is a rejection of you[...]
    Alright, wish you the best
    Last edited by Absurd; 09-02-2011 at 11:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    In my opinion, I think Socionics only explains a facet of the human personality, while neglecting to cover ground on other areas.
    this is not your opinion, this is a fact, which socionics doesn't deny.

    Socionics only claims to say something about information exchange.

    Why does everybody claim that socionics is a complete personality theory, where does it say that? please give source.
    I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think people don't necessarily have a source, you just get some people automatically assuming that Socionics must explain 100% of who you are as a person, which is a very ridiculous notion. Then they try to explain every situation, disagreement using Socionics and fail miserably because the problem is not Socionics related.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think people don't necessarily have a source, you just get some people automatically assuming that Socionics must explain 100% of who you are as a person, which is a very ridiculous notion. Then they try to explain every situation, disagreement using Socionics and fail miserably because the problem is not Socionics related.
    It is actually the other way around, socionics didn't come first, you did and you, and you, quack, meow, moo.

    Thing is, you set the trend, as in a person, without you, socionics wouldn't even see the light of day. Not to mention Jung and MBTI. As to trying to predict certain relationships solely via socionics, a theory, is bound to fail in some cases. Not all duals are the same. Upbringing, social values, race, nation, politics, play quite a big role in what ones on here call "to click."

    Not to mention human error or people seeing some sparkling future in some type they're not. It's just revolting against your true self. Healthy people realise it and stop, already dead ones, don't, they just crusade against it.

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    Wow.

    first kassie going INTj...then lashing out on Absurd...then Absurd calling her a parrot...then etc. It's all so familiar. Guess who and who?

    Socionics owns you all, you bozos.

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    Denying the socionics doesn't make it go away

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...24&postcount=5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Analyst Trevor View Post
    Wow.

    first kassie going INTj...then lashing out on Absurd...then Absurd calling her a parrot...then etc. It's all so familiar. Guess who and who?

    Socionics owns you all, you bozos.
    I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Socionics covers very well the relational dynamics between people, but it sucks at predicting static personality characters (i.e. political preferences, musical taste, interaction style, pastimes, level of emotional intensity, intellectual interests etc.). That's why many people who try to type others by referring to their love of sports, cars, musical groups, aggressivness, etc. are bound to fail.
    I really like this post.

    I agree, to me, socionics is how a person perceives reality, the environment around them. So, correlating that with personality can be difficult, since the environment around them, which someone grows up in, is different for EVERY single person!

    ^^ To put that mathematically:
    a=1-16 types
    b= environment/reality grown up in, genetics, etc.
    c= personality

    a*b=c

    With 'a' being constant, say an ENFj growing up in a Democratic family which is very outspoken, and talkative, the 'b', might produce someone whose personality 'c' is different than if an ENFj 'a' grew up in a Republican family which is more reflective, 'c'.

    That's just a very basic example. I like FDG's list:
    (i.e. political preferences, musical taste, interaction style, pastimes, level of emotional intensity, intellectual interests etc.).

    To me, these are personality metrics based on the development of the environment someone grew up in. So, to go back to the original question: socionics type does explain part of the human personality, and certainly it's possible to identify how someone perceives reality no matter what favorites/beliefs they have developed, but their overall personality can different greatly, and so can intertype compatibility.

    It's still possible to type someone, no matter what their personality. A constant coefficient 'a', despite being combined with an undetermined integer 'b', can produce a measurable 'c', just as in math, a certain number multiplied indefinitely will produces multiples in a pattern. 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, etc. A dramatic ENFj, a quiet ENFj, an aggressive ENFj, etc. It's still possible to identify the underlying tendencies and perceptions of reality, no matter what someone's overall personality shapes out to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler
    If you had to put it in percentage wise,
    Not going to bother with this, it's already too subjective to begin with. I'm curious though, why are you asking? What was the purpose of this post? What will you use this for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Not to mention human error or people seeing some sparkling future in some type they're not. It's just revolting against your true self. Healthy people realise it and stop, already dead ones, don't, they just crusade against it.
    Very true, this is the dark side of Socionics, getting stuck with the wrong type for too long. If it happens for a week or so, then that's fine, at that length you only want to figure out and clarify some aspects of yourself that are not Socionics related, however when it goes on for months or years, then that is very unhealthy behaviour.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler
    If you had to put it in percentage wise,
    Not going to bother with this, it's already too subjective to begin with. I'm curious though, why are you asking? What was the purpose of this post? What will you use this for?
    I agree that the percentage idea is far too subjective to have any merit. I just want to generally know what people's beliefs are on this issue and hopefully arrive at some consensus. I'm not going to really use this for anything.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Very true, this is the dark side of Socionics, getting stuck with the wrong type for too long. If it happens for a week or so, then that's fine, at that length you only want to figure out and clarify some aspects of yourself that are not Socionics related, however when it goes on for months or years, then that is very unhealthy behaviour.
    Yup, but it is almost forced on this site, one's typing, shoved down the throat by people who aren't necessarily of opposing or same quadra, having their types wrong as well, proudly flashing it like a facken baboon flashes its arse whenever it gets the chance to.

    I can put whatever I want in my sig or under my avatar just talking the talk, but do I walk the walk ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Very true, this is the dark side of Socionics, getting stuck with the wrong type for too long. If it happens for a week or so, then that's fine, at that length you only want to figure out and clarify some aspects of yourself that are not Socionics related, however when it goes on for months or years, then that is very unhealthy behaviour.
    Yup, but it is almost forced on this site, one's typing, shoved down the throat by people who aren't necessarily of opposing or same quadra, having their types wrong as well, proudly flashing it like a facken baboon flashes its arse whenever it gets the chance to.

    I can put whatever I want in my sig or under my avatar just talking the talk, but do I walk the walk ?
    Haha exactly, in the end their actions will reveal their true identity eventually and the only people who will believe them in the end will be themselves or gullible people.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    peoples true identities have nothing to do with their hypothetical socionics types. this is truly sick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    peoples true identities have nothing to do with their hypothetical socionics types. this is truly sick.
    Why must you go to such extremes? Does the view that Socionics types only explains a certain part of an individual's identity not sound plausible to you?
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    does it not sound plausible to you? you're the one saying people who type themselves incorrectly will eventually display behavior that shows their "true identity." thats what i was referring to. if you don't think that socionics type and identity are the same thing then maybe you should be more careful about the language you use.

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    I like pistachios.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    does it not sound plausible to you? you're the one saying people who type themselves incorrectly will eventually display behavior that shows their "true identity." thats what i was referring to. if you don't think that socionics type and identity are the same thing then maybe you should be more careful about the language you use.
    I see your point, but all I'm saying is that Socionics type is an aspect of identity and not the complete identity. So eventually all aspects of someone's identity (including Socionics) will become apparent over time regardless of what who they say they are.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    it most definitely is an aspect of identity. especially on boards like this

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    Quote Originally Posted by kassie View Post
    peoples true identities have nothing to do with their hypothetical socionics types. this is truly sick.
    Very true.

    Despite the views about our "true" type showing over time, and us deceiving ourselves by thinking of ourselves as some other type even if we are "not", it is very true that we usually assume our type as our self-identity.

    How could anyone claim that type A is not as much a part of us as type B, and insist that they are at the "essence" type B deceiving themselves that they are type A? Human beings are so much more complex. What people forget is that we human beings are capable of change and development. And at different stages of life, we care more for certain goals than others as we adapt ourselves to our goals. It is not all that impossible that one can be SLE at a particular time of a particular stage of life, and ESI at another time at some other stage of life.

    There is no "true" type, only us developing as human beings.

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    lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Sociotype has nothing to do with identity. Unless you honestly believe that impersonal attributes like shoe size or blood type are integral parts of your self-identity—because that's all a sociotype amounts to.
    Of course. Except that this certainly isn't how most people treat it. We type ourselves according to the "type" we see ourselves to be, and we type others according to a mixture of the "type" we perceive them to be and the "type" they perceive themselves to be. Which means that socionics typing is very much based on identity, although cold theory in itself isn't.

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    High Priestess glam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    What's that supposed to mean?
    you asked how school was going, i said it was going well.


    @ kassie: i don't think socionics actually "dehumanizes" anyone. it focuses on how people process information and categorizes people according to that, but accepting socionics' categorizations doesn't equate to a dismissal of other aspects of people's personalities that aren't particularly related to socionics, nor does it equate to an assumption that everything about a person is explainable by socionics. maybe some people have used socionics in such a way, but that isn't a fault of socionics itself.


    @ InkStrider: i think because socionics is a rigid system that categorizes billions of people into a relatively small amount of groups, some people might feel that it attempts to dismiss the complexity of and variety in people, but that's not really the case. socionics lays down certain fundamental rules - e.g. all EIEs have Si PoLR - but the thing is that not all EIE's Si PoLR manifests the exact same way. while the rules may seem simplistic, i don't think they are incompatible with all the differences you see between people's personalities and behaviors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    What's that supposed to mean?
    you asked how school was going, i said it was going well.
    Ah, I see. Okay, well I'm glad.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    Someone brought out the matches didn't she

    Here's the lighter fluid:
    I find it constricting that someone has a mental model of me by just three letters and it's as though this system is mapping out which kind of person is good for you (yes, I know there are differences among people) but some people might interpret this as "discrimination" (I don't quite know the word to use here).
    These 3 letters represent 16 sets of 2 letters each in specific and meaningful arrangement in model A. Based on the actual information element found in each block, there is theoretical value in finding people whose particular arrangement is compatible to yours based on the basic info element to info element relationship. This makes complete theoretical sense; its suggested existence of a preference over certain types are not discriminatory, but rational. We don't put hungry tigers and cute bunnies together.

    However this system serves as a starting point to know myself because I don't have any internal reference point to base myself as a person.

    That being said I feel as though this a label that is stuck onto you and you can't do anything about it. It's just frustrating.
    There is this thing that is being developed by a certain controversial self-proclaimed socionist that actually answers your frustration. It's called transcendence. The label is not a label; it is a framework upon which you can build yourself up. Once your functions have been developed to a certain extent, including mindset and a whole host of other development areas, you will have transcended functions, and effectively transcended your type. This is why many people my suddenly claim that you are their 'dual'. It's untrue. It's only that you have learnt to use the corresponding functions effectively in most situations and towards most people.

    That is also why I don't particularly go for duality per se, only compatibility.

    I foresee this post being flamed.
    Self-defense that can be potentially viewed as a self-fulfilling prophecy; IEI strategies
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    will you people please make up your mind about whether you do or don't accept socionics. this "straddling the fence", "middle of the road" stuff just makes your positions incoherent.

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