Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: integrating the superego with the ego and recognizing the unconscious (aka dual functions)

  1. #1
    Punk
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    TIM
    ESE
    Posts
    1,659
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default integrating the superego with the ego and recognizing the unconscious (aka dual functions)

    i would really like to have a discussion on the title. as far as it has worked out for me, my unconscious functions are what cemented my type (because we all have personas that confuse the question). it's like i have to inadvertently bottle up the superid to form my ego and it wants to come out and it does, but mostly in the form of my superego. maybe this is why duality is supposed to be good because you're unconsciously influenced by it and appreciate the help by your dual if you're ready to challenge that neurotic superid.

    but i know it seems against the theory, but i would say the superego is probably more familiar to the ego than the personal unconscious superid. and for some reason after lately connecting the dots on the theory ive learned that integrating my superego with my ego (even if im creating personas) seems to be a very positive experience as long as i feel in control of it.

    i suppose that might be what it means to grow as a human being, to accept all these parts of ourselves, to master them. it's exciting.

    anyway im a little perplexed that no one has attempted to talk about how people can integrate their weaker functions and grow them. im sure there will be quite a lot to talk about on it as well. i think this is a good thread to put analytical anecdotes and stories and such in, relating to Jungian theory (or theories), the topic, of course. it's also a lot more helpful if you know your type, but it's also not necessary since this isn't going to be a well-defined area of discussion anyway.

  2. #2
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    6,621
    Mentioned
    159 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Just posted something on this. The main way to develop the weak functions is to develop good habits in them. E.g., I've learned how to communicate on a more personal level with people by learning rules of thumb. For example:

    *speak positively whenever possible; tone of voice is important
    *mention related experiences or current happenings from your life even if you don't personally find them interesting; it builds rapport
    *learn to gauge someone's level of interest in a subject; if they don't care about it, then don't bring it up in the future
    *if you don't like someone, stay away from them rather than trying to change them or criticize them
    *if someone complains about something, offer relevant advice or help if possible

  3. #3
    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oh baby, baby, baby
    TIM
    No idea
    Posts
    1,928
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    You will be surprised that everybody is talking about integrating their weaker functions, only that they never express it in that way.

    You are right to say that your superego is more familiar to your ego than the superid, in your words, because both are conscious blocks. It is necessary to be proficient in your superego to survive in the world; you cannot merely rely on your ego. Even if you are in a position of power, it is still better to have a strong superego to prevent any attacks on your weak points.

    Development of the superego is very simple; understand what your role-playing and PoLR function is, observe people who are good with them, and emulate. Seek to understand and empathize how they think/feel when they are in that mode. Once you do that, you may be able to re-create it inside of you. As you practice it, it gets stronger and stronger. Better yet, use your base functions to help you with it.

    My PoLR is Fi. Fi is about empathy, humaneness, virtue. I observe the icon of Fi- Jesus Christ. His Fi is so developed that he is not only highly empathic (weeping on the death of a friends' friend/relative), but also able to summon appropriate ethical responses when necessary (anger at the merchants trading at the place of worship, hatred towards hypocrites). You'd be surprised that Christ is more explosive in his anger, and more venomous in his hatred towards the right things than we are. At the same time, his heart is tender towards the people; an paradoxical state that only high Fi can achieve. I begin to learn how to read body language in order to understand how a person is feeling internally, and some aspect of psychosomatic theory to understand my own emotions as well. Using Ne + Ti to form hypothesis regarding human behaviour and emotion, I'm able to generally read body language very well, tone of voice, and adjust my behaviour accordingly. It is, in a sense, a very scientific form of learning empathy (whereas Fi types may just know this without being able to communicate it in exact jargon/terms). For instance, I know that a female is open to communication when her body is generally soft towards me i.e. arms not crossed, body not tensed, possibly swaying towards me, angle leaning slightly towards me, angle of eyes looking down/low, frequent grooming actions (brushing of hair to the side with her hands etc.), soft and usually not particularly expressive face etc. A SEE on the other hand will just pick that up instinctively without being able to give you justifications why because it is so internalized already (although if they learn the language/science of it they will most probably catch on very fast).

    I build my Se in a similar manner: watching how SLEs and LSIs handle issues with volitional force, and observing how SEEs and ESEs 'punish' or 'reward' behaviour with equal strength. Most of the time, Se in this manner is not physical, but rather an issue of mental and emotional dominance/force. They can see the tactical way to 'attack' or 'tackle' the logical or ethical issue at hand in such a way that you may not expect it (for Se + Ti -> displaying weakness until the last moment when they unleash their true strength, for Se + Fi -> making you believe that they are on your side, and then destroying/judging you mercilessly). Learning Se tactics will naturally cause you to see things the Se style (looking for openings or enclosures, comparing material, us vs them mentality, destroying enemies, building up allies). Practicing them, of course, can be as simple as applying them in games (sports, real time strategy, multiplayer online battle arenas), or as complex as gaining the upper-hand over multi-levels of office politics.

    I don't know your type, but you can definitely apply these ideas for yourself.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

  4. #4
    Punk
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    TIM
    ESE
    Posts
    1,659
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Just posted something on this. The main way to develop the weak functions is to develop good habits in them. E.g., I've learned how to communicate on a more personal level with people by learning rules of thumb. For example:
    my bad, you're right. i think i skimmed that thread and found people making jokes, so i didn't decide to read everything.

  5. #5
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    WA
    TIM
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp
    Posts
    6,337
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by givemeaname View Post
    anyway im a little perplexed that no one has attempted to talk about how people can integrate their weaker functions and grow them. im sure there will be quite a lot to talk about on it as well. i think this is a good thread to put analytical anecdotes and stories and such in, relating to Jungian theory (or theories), the topic, of course. it's also a lot more helpful if you know your type, but it's also not necessary since this isn't going to be a well-defined area of discussion anyway.
    Actually, there's a few who think that we can develop each element within ourselves.

    I'm in the 'socionics is about information metabolism' camp. When I think of the 8 information elements, I'm thinking in terms of each representing specific kinds of information. I see no reason why we cannot expand our minds to utilize different types of information. Not that I think it would be easy, nor would many people be interested in doing so.

    One of the models...model B? ...even suggests how it may be done. The Dimensions thing of Experience, Norms/Rules, Situation, and Global/Development. According to this model, we all have the dimension of experience in every information element. Then we learn norms/rules regarding that information. Most of this will disappear and be forgotten quickly if we don't have a context to put them in. To aid remembrance, you pick a context in which to learn and apply those rules/norms. Eventually, with effort and experience, you learn a little more how to use the specific kind of information in a specific context/situation. Then you add in another context/situation. If it's similar to the previous one, then you're able to transfer what you learned, and maybe add some new knowledge/ability. The more contexts you can apply the info to, the stronger your ability and willingness to use that kind of info.

    I do have doubts that a person would spend the time/effort to make a 1D into a 4D, though. Unless they had good tutors and started young, and had many life experiences. And maybe even more caveats. What's more likely to happen, imo, is that the person will 'cheat' by using their familiar information elements but modified a bit so that an outsider might view it as the real deal.

    At least one of the initial issues a person doing this might face is that the new, unfamilar info and way of viewing/processing the info is likely to conflict with their habitual/familiar methods. This can create significant psychological stress, initially.

    Back when I was first learning about Socionics, I wanted to get down to the basic principles. I was highly motivated, though. I had something at stake, else I would not have worked so hard to understand it. I kept trying to get people to explore ideas with me, but many seemed to interpret what I was writing as me creating or asserting something. Ultimately I wound up having to figure it out on my own. I was able to then apply the info to help my daughter and myself with a couple of issues. But during that time, I was struggling, stressed with it, constantly having headaches, frustrated, and jumping back and forth between manic and depressive episodes. This learning process being the triggers for most of that. I often described the process as having to go into a sort of waking trance state while also trying to paddle up a creek without a paddle...and sometimes without a boat. Alot of it was the one step forward then two steps back kind of feeling.

    Ironically enough, many people jumped to the assumption that this was all natural and easy for me, and typed me based on those assumptions. Often willfully ignoring the descriptions I gave of my frustrations as being 'irrelevant'. As is, I wasn't even processing the info the way that they had thought. It was more of an after-the-fact illusion of it, definitely not the process.

    Anyways, the last part was added on because you had asked for anecdotes and stories.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  6. #6
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,632
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Reuben, you're fucking creepy.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  7. #7
    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oh baby, baby, baby
    TIM
    No idea
    Posts
    1,928
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @FDG

    I know right. A girl once spread rumours about me that I was stalking her. She also said that I was creepy, and got many girls to agree on that.

    A few months later they've all at least gone out with me once, or are willing to meet me anytime.

    Creepy = Free advertisement

    Hey man see you later on stickam if I still happen to be around!
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •