Laundry: Type-Related?

[DirectorAbbie]

Last night I saw Brilliand unceremoniously shove all his laundry from the dryer into a basket. And that got me wondering whether laundry was type-related. I'll start by giving the examples of my family.

IEE: Gradually fills the washing machine, then eventually runs it, then puts the clothes in the dryer. I believe he gradually removes them from there, too.

SLI: Brings a load of dirty clothes to the laundry room, drops them on the floor, then puts them in one at a time while checking pockets and stains. Runs the washing machine and dryer in good time, then takes the clothes out of the dryer, folds them, and stacks them anyplace that seems convenient at the time to be put away later.

LII: Brings a basket of dirty laundry to the laundry room, moves the laundry to the washing machine, runs it, forgets about it for a while, comes back, moves it to the dryer, runs it, forgets about it for a long while, comes back, shoves the clothes into the same basket.

LSE: Separates clothes in hamper according to regular or gentle cycle, straightening the clothes out at the same time, puts one pile back in the hamper, carries the other pile to the washing machine, drops it in, comes back after a reasonable time to find the machine got stuck 1/4 of the way through, beats it up until it runs again, leaves, comes back, moves the laundry to the dryer, leaves, comes back, leaves, comes back with basket, begins to roll clothes into tubes to place in basket, finds they're still damp, runs the machine longer, leaves, comes back, finishes filling the basket with tubes, brings it to her room, empties it before she does another load.

[Trevor]

Jesus Christ

[Pa3s]

[Morcheeba]

This is a joke right? I hope.

[DirectorAbbie]

This is a joke right? I hope.

Um, no...I honestly thing laundry methods are type-related.

[Anglas]

yeah totally, Abbie how long you was in washing machine and which program was used?

[mu4]

I'm a lot like IEE and LII, I forget about it in the dryer or washer all the time.

I think it can be type related as are all task and how we approach them.

[Absurd]

Laundry is type related. There are many kinds of laundry, just as there are many types of cider.

White laundry is IEI,
Black laundry is ILE,
Green laundry is EIE,
Purple laundry is Fi,
Brown laundry is SLE,

... and so on.

Anyone wants to expand my system of typing laundry is free to do so. Feedback guaranteed.

[mu4]

[Today 05:24 PM] hkkmr: seems fine to me
[Today 05:24 PM] hkkmr: I totally do laundry more like IEE and LII
[Today 05:24 PM] hkkmr: I think it's cuz I'm Ne
[Today 05:24 PM] hkkmr: it shows a static
[Today 05:24 PM] hkkmr: function imo and intuitive
[Today 05:25 PM] hkkmr: basket washer laundry are treated as objects
[Today 05:25 PM] hkkmr: where as the dynamics treat each article of clothing
[Today 05:25 PM] hkkmr: differently

Also intuitives like me are gonna be more forgetful and absent minded in accomplishing these task and may not return to them immediately after it's complete.

[Trevor]

Back to your question, Abbie:

i really don't know...never did the laundry, never observed people doing the laundry, never before heard people speaking about its connection to socionics

[Park]

I approve of this thread.

[JRiddy]

Abbie, people are facepalming in this thread because most people (myself included) believe that it is not constructive to think about types in this way. There are a variety of reasons for this:

• Tasks like this are ordinarily trained habits. How you do something like this depends on a variety of habits you have or have not trained yourself to do. In this sense, sociotype is like a higher-order "meta-habit" that affects how you process information at a lower level, and as such, given someone's type, you can only speak to tendencies towards certain kinds of task behavior.
• The way an individual accomplishes a task can vary dramatically depending on a variety of factors including: mood, stress, urgency of other stimuli. Sociotypes describe a very general pattern for how people respond to these kinds of things. For example, as an LSE, you are assuredly more likely to break something like this down into very specific steps and go through them rigorously, but not all LSEs are necessarily like this, and there are probably tasks you do that you do not break down in this manner.
• We must also be wary of the effects of the Fundamental Attribution Error, which can skew our understanding of how other people think and operate regularly.

[mu4]

Laundry isn't normally a trained skill unless you're a maid or work in some sort of textile industry.

It's a form of behavior most people in life develop thru their own cognitive functions or thru individual research.

Most people need to laundry and develop their own ways to doing it unless they're professionally trained or work in the laundry industry.

Abbie's empirical observations are pretty good regardless.

[Absurd]

Yeah, you forgot Red laundry. What type do you think Abbie's mom is? Going by laundry, of course? I'm starting to think she's some Te-polr. At any rate, Laundry is best indication and that's what it's telling me right now.

I don't know Abbie's mom, so I won't comment on it, but I'll say that Abbie's mom is Te polr as you suggested, for I want to know you better.

• Tasks like this are ordinarily trained habits. How you do something like this depends on a variety of habits you have or have not trained yourself to do. In this sense, sociotype is like a higher-order "meta-habit" that affects how you process information at a lower level, and as such, given someone's type, you can only speak to tendencies towards certain kinds of task behavior.
• The way an individual accomplishes a task can vary dramatically depending on a variety of factors including: mood, stress, urgency of other stimuli. Sociotypes describe a very general pattern for how people respond to these kinds of things. For example, as an LSE, you are assuredly more likely to break something like this down into very specific steps and go through them rigorously, but not all LSEs are necessarily like this, and there are probably tasks you do that you do not break down in this manner.
• We must also be wary of the effects of the Fundamental Attribution Error, which can skew our understanding of how other people think and operate regularly.

Haha mate, you just made a terrible mistake, a big mistake and you don't know what it is, but I do.

There was a hkkmr thread some time ago, and I think you're fucked. I mean, a couple of people are, not you in particular, nothing personal. But you're fucked as well.

Laundry isn't normally a trained unless you're a maid or work in some sort of textile industry.

Click

[JRiddy]

Laundry isn't normally a trained unless you're a maid or work in some sort of textile industry.

It's a form of behavior most people in life develop thru their own cognitive functions or thru individual research.

Most people need to laundry and develop their own ways to doing it unless they're professionally trained or work in the laundry industry.

Abbie's empirical observations are pretty good regardless.

I fail to see how this differs significantly from a "trained habit." Someone taught you how to do laundry or you figured it how you do it. Either they trained you or you trained yourself. The point is, it's a habit, and while the way someone conceptualizes and forms these things is, at some level, type-related, just the minutiae of how it's done is not particularly meaningful for type.

And how do you know her observations are that good? I'm not suggesting that she is a bad observer, but you have no reason to say that. You don't know how many times she has observed it. You don't know what patterns she began to notice first that caused her to see the same things again. Please refer to a Google search on "confirmation bias" if you don't understand what I mean. I don't mean to deride Abbie's observational skill here, and for all I know she could be excellent at distilling these kinds of things relatively objectively. But when you say "empirical," you raise the standard for evaluating these observations from just being an accurate anecdotal recitation of facts to being a refined observation of patterns over time.

[Absurd]

@Absurd: it was a joke, maybe a lame one. sth about the importance of laundry and how it can 'indicate' type. cheers

It's okay, DA is not my identical by any stretch so you're forgiven

Get JcuntRidmeoffDubiousThinking to reply and we can kiss.

[Trevor]

Get JcuntRidmeoffDubiousthinking to reply and we can kiss.

.

[Absurd]

Get JcuntRidmeoffDubiousthinking to reply and we can kiss.

.

Heh, I used to think that you were a colossal pain in the neck. Now I have a much lower opinion of you.

[mu4]

I fail to see how this differs significantly from a "trained habit." Someone taught you how to do laundry or you figured it how you do it. Either they trained you or you trained yourself. The point is, it's a habit, and while the way someone conceptualizes and forms these things is, at some level, type-related, just the minutiae of how it's done is not particularly meaningful for type.

Habitual naturally emerging behavior can certainly be type related and in fact all the socionic descriptions include examples of habitual naturally emerging behavior that is connect to the type. It's not a clear sign of type but if you took 1600 people of random types and typed them all and observed their laundry habits. There will be some statistical tendencies that arise from their IM. I can't prove it without running a experiment but other members of the forum can add their laundry behavior and we can see how it goes based on self typing.

Also when you create a process to do something, vs being taught explicitly how to do something, one invents and draws upon one's own IM while the other is adopting a existing process created by a member of another IM.

And how do you know her observations are that good? I'm not suggesting that she is a bad observer, but you have no reason to say that. You don't know how many times she has observed it. You don't know what patterns she began to notice first that caused her to see the same things again. Please refer to a Google search on "confirmation bias" if you don't understand what I mean. I don't mean to deride Abbie's observational skill here, and for all I know she could be excellent at distilling these kinds of things relatively objectively. But when you say "empirical," you raise the standard for evaluating these observations from just being an accurate anecdotal recitation of facts to being a refined observation of patterns over time.

She described what happened in a empirical fashion, without emotional content as well as without drawing upon any conclusions. It's simply a description of how they did laundry. She probably has observed her family members do laundry quite a few times and she can easily repeat these observations over and over again to see if they are the same. I would love it if she did that because it would confirm the pattern of behavior. Since you called it a habit, you're already assuming that the pattern of behavior exists. If you want her to take 50 videos of her family doing laundry, will it be empirical evidence to you then?

If your only words are going to be, let's not trust Abbie, her observations are suspect. I don't even think it fits your own assessment of the situations.

It would take a lot of work to confirm this particular observations by Abbie, but it doesn't sound bad at all and there is absolutely no reason to dismiss it without consideration. You already assume it's refined observation of pattern over time based on your other arguments against her, be consistent.

Looking closely we can say easily that the intuitive doing laundry, do it in a intuitive way, where things with less attention to detail and with less emphasis on present actions, while the sensors do it in a sensor way, a very present, check everything in detail sort of way.

Sensors do it like sensors, intuitive do it like intuitive. It doesn't sound that wierd to me.

I don't think it's a indicator of type, but related and in what way... doesn't that very bad.

[Nico1e]

Captain Picard's facepalms are the best. There are entire websites dedicated to nothing but Picard facepalms.

Laundry is type related. There are many kinds of laundry, just as there are many types of cider.

White laundry is IEI,
Black laundry is ILE,
Green laundry is EIE,
Purple laundry is Fi,
Brown laundry is SLE,

... and so on.

Anyone wants to expand my system of typing laundry is free to do so. Feedback guaranteed.

This sounds just like the Handkerchief Code. I was reading about that a few months ago. Handkerchief colors signal various things about your sexual preferences. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handkerchief_code

I agree that it's somewhat type related, and I also think that it's funny.

I do the laundry infrequently, and I don't mind wearing the same dirty clothes for a while. When I do laundry, I usually dump everything into one washer. I refuse to buy any clothes made out of unusual fabrics that require special laundry treatment, so everything is usually cotton and it can all be done the same way. When they're out of the dryer, I dump them in one big wadded pile into a basket or a bag or whatever I'm using (this depends on whether I'm at the laundromat or in a house with a washer).

Then I leave them wadded up, not folded, for a really long time. They develop wrinkles, and I ignore the wrinkles. When I was in college, though, I used to eventually take them out and hang them all on hangers. I've gone through phases in my life where I have folded them up and put them into drawers, too. But I have lived in so many different places that I've had to do things different ways, and now that I'm living in my car, it's a bag of wadded up laundry for me.

I think it's funny that someone would leave them in the dryer and pull them out of there one by one. I'd do that too, but I haven't lived in a house that owned a washer/dryer for years, so I've had to take them to the laundromat.

[Absurd]

This sounds just like the Handkerchief Code.

Ouch, where's my armour.

Oh poor me.

Nah, look at the black one though.

[Nico1e]

This sounds just like the Handkerchief Code.

Ouch, where's my armour.

Oh poor me.

Nah, look at the black one though.

It wasn't intended as an ouch, sorry.

[Absurd]

Ouch, where's my armour.

Oh poor me.

Nah, look at the black one though.

It wasn't intended as an ouch, sorry.

No worries, I wasn't serious.

[anndelise]

I don't believe laundry is type-related, but the OP had some examples, so I'll add my own family's methods.

As a little girl, our hallway was filled with laundry that was sorted by colors (at least). I wasn't much aware of laundry at that time, but I remember the huge mtns of laundry in the hallway. My FiNe mother worked a full time nursing job at night, then took care of us during the days. My SeFi father never did housework. I also remember huge piles of folded clothes that we had to take into our rooms. From this, I gather that my FiNe mother didn't do laundry until there was a huge pile to do. Whether due to hating doing laundry, being too damned exhausted to do it, or other, I dunno.

After the divorce, my father had to use a laundromat for our clothes. I recall him using the to-be-used washers as the sorters...one for whites, one for brights, one for darks. He'd just pull out an item and put it into the appropriate machine. Then we'd lump clothes into the large driers. Then fold them at the laundromat, then take them home and put them away.

After he married my (FiSe?) step-mother, we all had to do our own laundry, my father's done by her. As learned, I sorted my clothes in my room, then did each color separately. Clothes were not allowed to sit in the machines. And they had to be folded and put away immediately after. Folding was done in our rooms, each time a load came out of the dryer. My step-mother folded clothes differently, and so I had to learn a completely different way of folding. My father would come in and check my clothes to see if I had folded them "properly". If they weren't, then he'd pull out every single piece of clothing and make me fold them all again. (This was Jr high thru High school.)

When I moved out to live on my own, I used laundromats, and did what I had learned from my father, sorting the clothes directly into the machines. And I initially maintained my step-mother's methods of folding.

After I had my daughter, I came to hate doing laundry even more. Folding my step-mother's way took too long and was too much work, so I reverted to the previous way I had learned. I also stopped sorting. If I didn't wait too long, I could wash my clothes in one load, and my daughter's clothes in another load. Fold and put away immediately so it wouldn't clutter up the house further.

Now-a-days, each person in my family washes, dries, and folds their own clothes. My SeFi daughter has dirty clothes lumped in her bathroom and all over her bedroom floor. I've had to schedule a specific day for her to do her laundry, so it doesn't get too disgusting. She puts all her clothes that will fit into one load (no sorting), and after things are dried, she dumps them into various boxes, unfolded.

SiFe lets his clothes pile up til he's out of underwear, then puts them into the machine. After they are dried, he lumps them onto the floor and gradually pulls out what he needs as he needs them. If he could, he'd use the washer as his hamper, putting in dirty clothes as it happens; and the dryer would hold his clothes until he needed each one.

(NeFi) I've begun handwashing my clothes and hang drying them in a section of the bedroom. The skirts and shirts dry on their hangers. I leave them there and use them as needed, though now that I have more shirts, I can put the shirts away after they are dried.

So, during my almost 40 years, my laundry methods changed a few times. Which one counts? What I did when I was most of ya'lls age...what I did as a parent...or what I do now?

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

It's just doing laundry. Normally I'm all for going deep into shit but umm... I view laundry and chores as something that I do so I can get back to talking about things that I find interesting lol.

If I try to assign deep meaning to basic things like that , I'd never get them done, because I'd overcomplicate them. I'm not saying it's morally right, but there's a reason why people look down on 'servitude' jobs like being a janitor or cleaner or house maid, etc. 'Oh that's just the maid' etc. Like 'Oh my god who would want to actually clean up other people's shit for a living?'

My rich cousin pays somebody to do all her housework for her so she can talk about interesting psychological stuff all day. I worry about the imbalance of doing that but it's her life so whatever.

[Ozz]

Guys, laundry methods are not type related. Rather, it is passed from generations to generations from parents to descendants. Each methods representing centuries of history through lineage.

[Galen]

Hi Director Abbie.

[717495]

I don't know Abbie's mom, so I won't comment on it, but I'll say that Abbie's mom is Te polr as you suggested, for I want to know you better.

F u. That guy's a jerk.

[munenori2]

No one's ever actually taught me how to do laundry, although I've heard of such esoteric subjects as 'separating colors', but I've always just thrown everything in, filled the detergent up to the line in the cap, warm or cold cycle depending on how new the newest clothes are in the mix (hot if it's just like towels I've used to clean up horrible horrible messes), and then toss them into the dryer. Depending on how much time I've got when I pull them out, I either fold them or toss them into a hamper and promise myself I'm going to fold them later. I should be more specific with myself because sometimes that means a couple of days and I wind up rewashing the more wrinkly ones. I also like to collect all the change and dollar bills I find afterwards.

[silke]

Ni-Fe in action: an anthropomorphized pile of dirty clothes - a monster



that shall be cast into the cold steel prison where through countless cycles of death and rebirth the forces of light shall battle its innate darkness to deliver this forfeit creature to its redemption ... and purify its very essence so that it may reach the gates of the purgatory where its essence will be lifted to the soaring heights of experience upon which time it will be released into the timeless abyss

and that's how laundry gets done the Ni-Fe way

[DirectorAbbie]

Wow, Ann, your parents were strict about laundry. My parents have complained when Brilliand wore wrinkled clothes, but that's about it. And as to folding properly: I believe traditional folding is not as efficient as partial folding, then rolling. My way, one is able to view most of the clothes in a drawer at a glance instead of the clothes hiding under one another so that you have to mess up the folding jobs of the ones on top to find something on the bottom.

If you want her to take 50 videos of her family doing laundry

I actually considered doing this, but besides not having a camera and not knowing how to upload a video, I realized I had no good place to hide the camera, and people sometimes behave differently when they know they're being watched.

If he could, he'd use the washer as his hamper, putting in dirty clothes as it happens; and the dryer would hold his clothes until he needed each one.

Lol. I wonder how many people are like this.

Hi Director Abbie.

Hi, Arctures.

'separating colors'

Yes, what is the point of separating colors? Stuff never bleeds after I've worn them for half my life. And when the new green towel was washed with a white facecloth, that facecloth became my new favorite. It's like a free dye job.

[Aiss]

The way I thought it was...

Women sort laundry by colours.

Men separate it into "dirty" and "dirty, but still wearable".

... separating colours, usually just into dark - light, or maybe black - white - others if there's a lot, is one thing I always do. The rest is highly circumstantial (i.e. folding might or might not happen and it's hard to predict how it will happen, clothes might be taken out of the washer/hangers immediately or after days, etc.), but colours seem essential to me - there are different detergents for them, so how could I wash them all together?! And I don't want my black clothes dulled so I won't use detergents which are supposed to be whitening on them, but I don't want stains to remain on my white clothes forever, so I'll use those in this case, etc. (I did consider to go back to all black for this reason, though.)

And no, I don't think it's type related except possibly through one's general attitude to chores. Which I only buy because it says super-ego Si => seeing chores as never ending (and largely pointless) exercise.

[Creepy-bg]

SiFe lets his clothes pile up til he's out of underwear, then puts them into the machine. After they are dried, he lumps them onto the floor and gradually pulls out what he needs as he needs them. If he could, he'd use the washer as his hamper, putting in dirty clothes as it happens; and the dryer would hold his clothes until he needed each one.

LII: Brings a basket of dirty laundry to the laundry room, moves the laundry to the washing machine, runs it, forgets about it for a while, comes back, moves it to the dryer, runs it, forgets about it for a long while, comes back, shoves the clothes into the same basket.

^me

+ clean clothes go into a pile in the corner after they make it back into my room, dirty clothes get left on the floor until the clean pile is gone and everything else is to too stinky to wear again... then everything goes into the hamper to be transported to the wash room.

i separate into three piles on the floor of the laundry room; darks, whites, and colors (no real reason besides that's how i thought that you're supposed to do it)

[Absurd]

F u. That guy's a jerk.

Fuck me ?

[glam]

rolling laundry? this is intriguing

[Park]

Hi Glam. I haven't seen you in centuries. Hope your laundry is clean.

[Nico1e]

rolling laundry? this is intriguing

Yeah, the only time I ever 'rolled' my laundry was when I went away to church camp with a friend. We were hiking with backpacks on. We rolled our clothes and then wrapped rubber bands or something around it to keep it tight. Supposedly, this was to help it take up less space in our backpacks, but now that I think about it, I'm not sure whether or not a roll really takes up less space than a flat object.

[Nico1e]

I don't believe laundry is type-related, but the OP had some examples, so I'll add my own family's methods.

As a little girl, our hallway was filled with laundry ....

Which one counts? What I did when I was most of ya'lls age...what I did as a parent...or what I do now?

Ann, for some reason, this description is fascinating and enjoyable for me to read.

[DirectorAbbie]

Supposedly, this was to help it take up less space in our backpacks, but now that I think about it, I'm not sure whether or not a roll really takes up less space than a flat object.

It doesn't make it take up less space, but it makes it easier to pack and unpack.

[glam]

Hi Glam. I haven't seen you in centuries. Hope your laundry is clean.

hi Parkster. yes, i just did all of my laundry over the past couple of days

I think there's an overtendency on this forum to poo-poo any attempts to find type-related phenomena. It's probably a reaction to the pattern of newbies relating absolutely everything to socionics, but shouting, "NTR! NTR!" in every "Is It Type-Related?" thread is just running to the other extreme.

definitely agree. too often the "NTR" replies are just unhelpful non-answers.