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Thread: Opposition Model

  1. #1
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    Default Opposition Model

    Opposition Model

    ENFp

    1. 2. 3. 4. - Conscious
    ---------------------------------
    5. 6. 7. . 8. - Unconscious

    ISTp

    1. 2. 3. 4.
    ---------------------------------
    5. 6. 7. . 8.

    ENTp

    1. 2. 3. 4.
    ---------------------------------
    5. 6. 7. . 8.

    ISFp

    1. 2. 3. 4.
    ---------------------------------
    5. 6. 7. . 8.

    INTp

    1. 2. 3. 4.
    ---------------------------------
    5. 6. 7. . 8.

    ESFp

    1. 2. 3. 4.
    ---------------------------------
    5. 6. 7. . 8.

    INFp

    1. 2. 3. 4.
    ---------------------------------
    5. 6. 7. . 8.

    ESTp

    1. 2. 3. 4.
    ---------------------------------
    5. 6. 7. . 8.

    INFj

    1. 2. 3. 4.
    ---------------------------------
    5. 6. 7. . 8.

    ESTj

    1. 2. 3. 4.
    ---------------------------------
    5. 6. 7. . 8.

    ENFj

    1. 2. 3. 4.
    ---------------------------------
    5. 6. 7. . 8.

    ISTj

    1. 2. 3. 4.
    ---------------------------------
    5. 6. 7. . 8.

    ENTj

    1. 2. 3. 4.
    ---------------------------------
    5. 6. 7. . 8.

    ISFj

    1. 2. 3. 4.
    ---------------------------------
    5. 6. 7. . 8.

    INTj

    1. 2. 3. 4.
    ---------------------------------
    5. 6. 7. . 8.

    ESFj

    1. 2. 3. 4.
    ---------------------------------
    5. 6. 7. . 8.

    Description of the Functions

    (Functions 1 to 4 are conscious)

    1st - Characterizing Function - This is the strongest function of the individual as a result of the powerful strength directed towards this individual coupled with the highest frequency. The individual's character is based on this function.

    2nd - Assistant Function - This is the second strongest function of the individual that contains a high level of frequency as well. This function assists the characterizing function a great deal and transforms the character further.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    (Strength Diffusion - The functions below have been suppressed in terms of strength as a result of the dominant functions reigning supremacy)
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    3rd - Illusionary Function - This is a weak function that contains a high level of frequency and usage. As a result the individual believes it is strong and seeks to make it stronger and is drawn to it.

    4th - Smoke Function - A slightly weaker function than the 3rd that contains an unusual amount of usage despite its low strength. If the individual over emphasizes this function it will lead to confusion and neurotic behaviour almost as if the individual were sounded with smoke.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    //Barrier//(Transition from consciousness to unconsciousness)//Barrier//
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    (Functions 5 to 8 are unconscious)

    *Note: The following functions contain equivalent strength as the above functions, but their low usage make them highly unapparent to most individuals. The unconscious portion of the individual is relatively unused, but emerges on occasion.*

    5th - Hidden Power Function - This function will periodically emerge and the aura will mesmerize the individual . It contains a high level of strength, but it is used occasionally and will only arise when a situation requires it.

    6th - Visiting Function - This function resembles a guest, since it will spring up seamingly out of nowhere when it is required and it will take outsiders by suprise. It contains a little less strength then 5th function and is used occasionally.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    (Strength Diffusion - The functions below have been suppressed in terms of strength as a result of the dominant functions reigning supremacy)
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    7th - Suppressed Function - This function is very weak and is rarely used. It is child-like in its usage and very archaic in its demeanor, it will spiral the individual into neurotic behavior and false judgements.

    8th - Turbulent Function - This function has been condemned to the point of no existence. It will confuse the individual when used and will result in incoherent behaviour and speech. This function may even be interpreted as strong when in reality it is the characterizing function being used with an overtone of this one, since they both perform the same task in a different style/
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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  2. #2
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    I see what your main aim is, that is of making clear that the 3rd and the 4th functions are the crappiest. However:

    1)I do not think that the 4th function is actually used more than the 3rd. For futher clarifications, try reading Smilingeyes' charts. Example: Te-dominants are much stronger in Emotion-Creating behaviour (Fe) than Ni/Si dominants.
    2)I think that the traditional model explains better the other functions than yours
    3)I think that the traditional model itself makes kind of clear that the 3rd and the 4th functions are the crappiest.

    Therefore, I do not think that your rearrangment is essential.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    1)I do not think that the 4th function is actually used more than the 3rd. For futher clarifications, try reading Smilingeyes' charts. Example: Te-dominants are much stronger in Emotion-Creating behaviour (Fe) than Ni/Si dominants.
    EDIT: Isn't every single type capable of emotion-creating behaviour? I'm not sure that ethics is completely correlated with emotion. I have seen Te-dominants show happiness and anger more frequently than an Ni/Si dominant, however that can also be a result of the difference between extraversion/introversion.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    3)I think that the traditional model itself makes kind of clear that the 3rd and the 4th functions are the crappiest.
    It is true that one can ascertain that the 3rd and 4th are the worst from the traditional model but it can be misleading if a newcomer had read it, however that is only one of my three aims. The second aim is that this new model seperates the conscious functions from the unconscious ones. The third aim is to explain duality and the positive relations within quadras, since they are based on the same 4 conscious functions.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    What I find most useful about your rearrangement is that you emphasize the quadra values, something many people still overlook and therefore make mistypings.

    However, I agree with FDG in that I see no justification for inverting the order of the role function and PoLR - if that's what you meant, your description of your "suppressed" and "turbulent" functions does not make it clear. It's the opposite (if I got you right). The role function is something one tries to work on. The PoLR is something you wish you didn't even have to think about.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I would tend to agree, Expat, but I think what he's pointing out is that the Role Function is sometimes more obviously weak and open to criticism, simply because of the fact that the individual tries to work on it.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    You have placed Superid block in the place of Superego block - why do you think this order is better?
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    Well, it's just numbering.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    Well, it's just numbering.
    Re-arranging the order to indicate strength is just one aspect of this model. Another aspect is explained below in response to Expat. The other aspect is drawing a line between the conscious functions(Functions 1-4) and unconscious functions (Functions 5-8).

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    What I find most useful about your rearrangement is that you emphasize the quadra values, something many people still overlook and therefore make mistypings.
    I'm glad you were able to recognize the quadra functions that were visually present under the opposition model. It also explains duality since the order of duals is basically just reversed almost as if they were mirror images of one another! Here are all the quadra values:

    Alpha: , , ,
    Beta: , , ,
    Gamma: , , ,
    Delta: , , ,

    Basically, my model makes it very apparent that the types in their own respective quadras share identical conscious functions.

    @Role Function: I always believed that the hidden agenda or 3rd function under my model is the true function that we all attempt to develop because it is conscious. I have the belief that since the role function is unconscious, it is less likely to be developed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamicism
    As well, placing the Estimative (Mod-A 6th) and Suggestive (Mod-A 5th) functions as the 3rd and 4th respectively instead, makes more sense as well, in order to emphasize their strength as being next in potency relative to the 1st and 2nd functions.
    Yeah, one aspect of this model is to order things according to frequency and strength. It may be apparent in model A, however if it isn't ordered that way then it could imply almost anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Olga
    You have placed Superid block in the place of Superego block - why do you think this order is better?
    Basically, I believe that the conscious functions and most frequent functions should be emphasized primarily. Secondarily should be the unconscious functions or the least frequent functions. Overall strength is the main attribute for ordering and functions (1-4) and (5-8) are like to two different orders in a way.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamicism
    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler
    It may be apparent in model A, however if it isn't ordered that way then it could imply almost anything.
    Right. It's only apparent if you know every damned nook and cranny of the model - which is completely unnecessary in my mind. You spend more time learning about how the model is supposed to be put together, rather than about the content that model is supposed to represent. No wonder so many people can never get Socionics right! Which is why I appreciate this layout so much more, there's far more straightforwardness to it, as there should be.
    Thanks, a model is more like a menu in a restaurant so it should be made straightforward. However, a lot of people prefer for the menu to not change, since they got used to the unorganized menu and it works for them.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    Thanks Traveler
    This makes much more sense to me too. The real test is if reflects more of reality. I find in my case it does. I am much more conscious of than I am of the other ones. can become an area of compulsion or negelct for me depending on the subject. Im not sure I understand the expression "sounded with smoke" though.

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz
    Thanks Traveler
    This makes much more sense to me too. The real test is if reflects more of reality. I find in my case it does. I am much more conscious of than I am of the other ones. can become an area of compulsion or negelct for me depending on the subject. Im not sure I understand the expression "sounded with smoke" though.
    No problem, the manner in which you described resonates with me as well. It results in archaic and compulsive behaviour and I'm much more aware of it than . The smoke analogy was trying to state that experiencing the 4th function under my model is like walking through a puff of smoke, which will result in a high level of discomfort and neurotic bheaviour. However, I'm not sure if that is the best expression that could of been attributed to that function. Proving this empirically would be the difficult part, however Jung had already done this and this model adheres to what Jung had stated. Unless, a group begins a year long study on different types of individuals, the truth won't be known for a while.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    I think your layout makes better sense - it is just lay out, isn't it because you did not change the numbers of the fucntions? but I think we differ in the way see the strentgh of the functions....or may be I have misunderstood.

    The Role function -is it 3d function? - is to my opinon is stronger than the 4th fucntion - hidden agenda. As far as I understood you say the opposite?
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olga
    I think your layout makes better sense - it is just lay out, isn't it because you did not change the numbers of the fucntions? but I think we differ in the way see the strentgh of the functions....or may be I have misunderstood.

    The Role function -is it 3d function? - is to my opinon is stronger than the 4th fucntion - hidden agenda. As far as I understood you say the opposite?
    I believe the role function is weaker than the polr function for the same reason that the first function is stronger than the second function. I believe that the dominant function had suppressed the role function considerably. This was performed in order to enable the dominant primary function to be strong and be the preferred style of choice to take on the task whether it be introverted judgement or any other task.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    Default Style of choice?

    The idea of a preffered style of choce is pretty much the same what |i talked about before (if not please correct me). I described the fact that the base function will direct all other functions in a certain way. Yes, all other functions will be subordinate to the base function but not overly supressed - rather interact in a certain way. For example, if you are Ethical type then you will see things from Ethical perspective if you are logical type - logical perspective will prevail. INTJ will consider moral issues -...upbringin of children... and he will have very clear opinoin how to treat children. We can not say that INTj has got no idea what he is talking about because it is his role function . No, quite on the opposite. He can get very passionate about it...or any other moral issue but....he will give you very logical advice and explanation. for example, he will treat a child like a small adult - that will be his perspective.

    As regards to supression: his first function is pure abstract logic, so you do not expect him to talk about the relationships or think about moral issues as much as ISFJ would do it, but I would argue that morality is a strong part of INTJ life. What is weak is but again what exactly we mean by saying polr fucntion is weak. INTJ is very good at been a stubborn donkey - is it a weak . You put pressure on INTJ and you move nowhere. His Dual match suppose to use a differnt taktic: + - that is what INTJ needs: peace quiet, comfort and very positive emotional atmosphere id you don't want him to blow up.

    I also call Role function as ambition function and direction to develop yourself. Polr and role are in superego block - guidance and submission to the Higher Spirit/Will. We all have to work on this block if we want to succeed. It the cross you carry and donot expect an easy time but it is enjoyable as well as we do need a certain amont of challenge in life.

    State your reasons why you believe that Role is weaker than polr function? You can consider your type or any ohter type to make your line of thought more obvious.
    Socionics: XNFx
    MBTI: INFJ

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    Default My Take

    Quote Originally Posted by Olga
    State your reasons why you believe that Role is weaker than polr function? You can consider your type or any ohter type to make your line of thought more obvious.
    I just wanted to point out that I too think that role is actually weaker than PoLR. My Ti is probably objectively speaking stronger than my Se but I feel much more confident using Se than Ti. The explanation is hard to come by, but I know my mind and body. Otherwise I am not yet convinced of Traveller's latest theory.
    "Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
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    You think that your Role is weaker than Polr - could be for a few reasons:

    1. If you consider Ti as a pure abstract logic, the one INTJs and ENTps use - than yes. But it is not that logic I talk about. INFJs are rational because they are primarily + ethical reasoning - collecting knowldege about people. Both INFJ and ISFj are similar in this way: (if you have read Model B you would know it) we collect info automatically internally by function. Do you want it or not - you are born with this ability to pick up on this clue - ethics, people, feelings, morals....and is a second shoe of the pair: you feel - you think: why do you feel this way, you serach for the answer which is driven by feeling. This process occurs on two levels immidiate and more general. You might be content but you will pick up the book of your interest - which will be not about Math/Physics but science about people.

    Your Ti dries you to seek more organised knowledge about people, that is why studying, you like intelleigent people, books, knowldedge. You automatically collect info through Fi but you have to make an effort to seek collective knowldege, to spend time reading, studying - this is an extrenal way of collecting knowledge: you acutally do somthing constructive, interact with people, colledge, university and etc to get it into you - it does not come itself into your mind.

    2. Why do you feel it is easier for you to use Se - could be the reason how you understand Se and how it is exactly reflects in your behavour?
    Do you push people easily? Are you impulsive and say what comes to you mind there and then? Do you feel comfortable to do it? Do you like to do things with your hands, some hobbies? Do you mind other people to push you around?
    School of Associative socionics: http://socionics4you.com/

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