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Thread: Personal development socionics-wise and otherwise

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    Default Personal development socionics-wise and otherwise

    Basically what I've gleaned from my own personal development is that there is a time and a place for using an information element - and the key to self-actualization is to know what that is. The obstacles to this are the natural fear of using the weak functions plus the overconfidence of the strong functions. People's instincts tell them to use the strong functions way more than the weak functions, but this can lead you to using them at inappropriate times. Rick mentioned examples of this in "Developing the Super-Ego": e.g., sometimes it's necessary for a type to express compassion, rather than being an impersonal judge - or for a type to, say, be appreciative of someone's emotional state. The key is to overcome bad habits, which one can do through constant effort to enact good habits, and, as I have done, through use of meditative techniques.

    Over the years my meditation and spiritual work have eliminated or at least quieted a whole bunch of those voices in my head: the voices of Fear, of Laziness, of Self-deprecation, of Irritability, of Cynicality, of Doubt, etc. Instead I listen (as much as I can) to the voices of Morality, of Selflessness, of Hard Work, of Friendliness, of Honesty. This is a long process and for many it can take a whole life. Always try to improve yourself!!! You can do it if you really want to do it and persevere!

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    Also, I've come to the maybe counter-intuitive conclusion that it's actually best to use the Super-ego in preference to the Super-id. I think Gilly came up with something along these lines b/c the 1st function sometimes has to be blocked with the 4th one, etc. It's only the fear associated with the Super-ego that keeps you from using it even when it's necessary to support the base fn. The super-id, on the other hand, is actually a manifestation of the childish, more primitive desires, even though it is valued. If you want to become a complete person, try to work on the deeper super-ego issues rather than taking refuge in the superficial high you get off the super-id. (Not to say that you shouldn't seek out positive socionics relationships, it's just that the maturity of the parties involved is about a hundred times more important than their socionics relationship. My spiritual guide is SLE, by the way, and we get along great.)

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    Surrounding yourself with these types creates a sort of social balance for yourself. Situational Ego conflicts I think are manageable with your own capabilities, if you are aware of the problem, but I believe that what is most needed* is a constant stream of social influence.


    *Yeah this is Socionics applied. You don't really 'need' to live by it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Role: Supervisee/Business
    PoLR: Supervisor/Kindred


    Surrounding yourself with these types creates a sort of social balance for yourself. Situational Ego conflicts I think are manageable with your own capabilities, if you are aware of the problem, but I believe that what is most needed* is a constant stream of social influence.


    *Yeah this is Socionics applied. You don't really 'need' to live by it.
    I added a note above about personal relationships, but mainly I am talking about how to *use* IEs. What's more important is to surround yourself with people who are as or more spiritually mature than you are, people who bring out the best in you, regardless of type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Role: Supervisee/Business
    PoLR: Supervisor/Kindred


    Surrounding yourself with these types creates a sort of social balance for yourself. Situational Ego conflicts I think are manageable with your own capabilities, if you are aware of the problem, but I believe that what is most needed* is a constant stream of social influence.


    *Yeah this is Socionics applied. You don't really 'need' to live by it.
    I added a note above about personal relationships, but mainly I am talking about how to *use* IEs. What's more important is to surround yourself with people who are as or more spiritually mature than you are, people who bring out the best in you, regardless of type.
    Yes, I agree. The kind of people someone surrounds themselves with speaks volumes about the person themselves. Like the statement, "Birds of a feather..."

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    Positive Aspects

    Child -> Excitement, Discovery, Curiosity, Fun
    Adult -> Rational thinking, Calculation, Taking Responsibility
    Old man -> Wisdom, Guidance, Reflection

    Negative Aspects

    Child -> Immature, Refuses to shoulder consequences, Hates difficulty
    Adult -> Dogmatic, Boring, Slow
    Old man -> Hesitance, Passiveness

    Corresponding Functions

    Child -> Super Id
    Adult -> Super Ego
    Old man -> Id

    This is just a simple framework I sometimes use. So hotelambush there, I do agree that the superego is at times the best to develop if you want to succeed in the world. Without it, you will refuse to do the things that adults do: take responsibility, calculate risks, think rationally. You notice that 2 duals together usually can't ever get any work done because they just keep teasing and playing with each other.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
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    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
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    dreams larger
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    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    This is a very good post.

    One of the most important part of life is to develop your weak functions, but when we are younger we need to develop our strong function in order to compete in the rat race and carve out our little niche in the world.

    There are various people in the world you can learn from but not all of them would you want a close personal relationship with. I have learned a lot from working for a LIE as well as working with various people of many quadras.

    It's important to value people for what they bring to it. Sometimes it doesn't matter so much how well we get along with them.

    I'm not sure if I've posted this here before.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%...archy_of_needs

    There are many psychological studies which can be connected to socionic given some minor revision of the theory or idea. Maslow hierarchy of needs is one of them.

    I look at maslow's hierarchy of need and if you remove self-actualization which is closely related to esteem, it can be explained mental function developed. The first 4 levels of the hierarchy correspond with the functional development that people go thru.

    Our base function is the psychological foundation by which we engage the world.
    Our creative function is the product we produce in order to acquire material and personal security.
    Developing the role function is how we achieve love and belonging, by fulfilling a role in society and in various organizations or our personal lives, it's not something we are naturally confident in but we fulfill this role without ego and the overconfidence of the ego functions.
    Developing the vulnerable function is esteem, where we finally overcome our fears and gain the respect and self-respect we need in order to be fully at peace with ourselves.

    I've opened another thread incase people want to talk about Maslow hierarchy of needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    Positive Aspects

    Child -> Excitement, Discovery, Curiosity, Fun
    Teenager -> activity, enlightenment, developing of new ideas...
    Adult -> Rational thinking, Calculation, Taking Responsibility
    Old man -> Wisdom, Guidance, Reflection

    Negative Aspects

    Child -> Immature, Refuses to shoulder consequences, Hates difficulty
    Teenager -> radicalism, capriciousness...
    Adult -> Dogmatic, Boring, Slow
    Old man -> Hesitance, Passiveness

    Corresponding Functions

    Child -> Super Id
    Teenager -> Ego?
    Adult -> Super Ego
    Old man -> Id

    Corresponding quadra:

    Child -> Alpha
    Teenager -> Beta
    Adult -> Gamma
    Old man -> Delta
    This can be expanded...
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    I'm just curious about something. Where is your low self-esteem coming from? Why do you think you have to change yourself through spirituality? What have you done that you think you can't be forgiven?

    I'm glad you're happier, but if you actually did something to hurt somebody else, your forgiveness needs to have a real physicality to it. The only way out is through. If you done something against somebody else, then the adult thing is to make amends for it. How about actually socializing with the party you injured instead of narcissitically meditating? As good as meditation does, it does nothing for the people you hurt.

    If you haven't done anything to feel guilty for or to be ashamed over, then I don't understand the exercize. Yeah I mean we all have eternal darkness we can't ever get rid of, but focusing on that is really depressing. I would say it's just a good thing that you are quieting your mind. I wouldn't get so hung up on misty archetypes. People get hurt by real baseball bats and bullets and fists. Not concepts. The concepts are just the force behind it, something you can't ever fight anyway so you might as well stop trying. They are incorporeal demonic ghosts that are immune to all damage.

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    Positive Aspects

    Child -> Excitement, Discovery, Curiosity, Fun
    Teenager -> activity, enlightenment, developing of new ideas...
    Adult -> Rational thinking, Calculation, Taking Responsibility
    Old man -> Wisdom, Guidance, Reflection

    Negative Aspects

    Child -> Immature, Refuses to shoulder consequences, Hates difficulty
    Teenager -> radicalism, capriciousness...
    Adult -> Dogmatic, Boring, Slow
    Old man -> Hesitance, Passiveness

    Corresponding Functions

    Child -> Super Id
    Teenager -> Ego?
    Adult -> Super Ego
    Old man -> Id

    Corresponding quadra:

    Child -> Alpha
    Teenager -> Beta
    Adult -> Gamma
    Old man -> Delta
    This can be expanded...
    Child-->Milk, Pepsi
    Teenager-->Pepsi, Beer
    Adult-->Beer, Wine
    Old-->Wine, Milk

    The circle is now complete, Obi Wan Kenobi
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    @MD

    Yea actually teenagers do seem to fit well with Ego. The assertion of independence and self.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Child-->Milk, Pepsi
    Teenager-->Pepsi, Beer
    Adult-->Beer, Wine
    Old-->Wine, Milk

    The circle is now complete, Obi Wan Kenobi
    Finally, everthing fits together.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post

    This can be expanded...
    Child-->Milk, Pepsi
    Teenager-->Pepsi, Beer
    Adult-->Beer, Wine
    Old-->Wine, Milk

    The circle is now complete, Obi Wan Kenobi
    What if you drink liquor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    What if you drink liquor.
    What a question! People drinking liquor are obviously undead.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    I kind of make it a point of only drinking blood, but sometimes I also tend to favour eyeball juice.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post

    Child-->Milk, Pepsi
    Teenager-->Pepsi, Beer
    Adult-->Beer, Wine
    Old-->Wine, Milk

    The circle is now complete, Obi Wan Kenobi
    What if you drink liquor.
    Duffman punishes you!

    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    This is a very good post.

    One of the most important part of life is to develop your weak functions, but when we are younger we need to develop our strong function in order to compete in the rat race and carve out our little niche in the world.

    There are various people in the world you can learn from but not all of them would you want a close personal relationship with. I have learned a lot from working for a LIE as well as working with various people of many quadras.

    It's important to value people for what they bring to it. Sometimes it doesn't matter so much how well we get along with them.

    I'm not sure if I've posted this here before.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%...archy_of_needs

    There are many psychological studies which can be connected to socionic given some minor revision of the theory or idea. Maslow hierarchy of needs is one of them.

    I look at maslow's hierarchy of need and if you remove self-actualization which is closely related to esteem, it can be explained mental function developed. The first 4 levels of the hierarchy correspond with the functional development that people go thru.

    Our base function is the psychological foundation by which we engage the world.
    Our creative function is the product we produce in order to acquire material and personal security.
    Developing the role function is how we achieve love and belonging, by fulfilling a role in society and in various organizations or our personal lives, it's not something we are naturally confident in but we fulfill this role without ego and the overconfidence of the ego functions.
    Developing the vulnerable function is esteem, where we finally overcome our fears and gain the respect and self-respect we need in order to be fully at peace with ourselves.

    I've opened another thread incase people want to talk about Maslow hierarchy of needs.
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=37061
    This is very good. Maslow's hierarchy is definitely noticeable in my own quest for self-improvement.



    @B&D The darkness within you is not eternal. It's like a shadow of Reality, which is God. The sun does not cease to exist at night, does it? There is nothing misty or corporeal about what I'm saying, this is very real. Real religion requires both the inner and the outer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Basically what I've gleaned from my own personal development is that there is a time and a place for using an information element - and the key to self-actualization is to know what that is. The obstacles to this are the natural fear of using the weak functions plus the overconfidence of the strong functions. People's instincts tell them to use the strong functions way more than the weak functions, but this can lead you to using them at inappropriate times. Rick mentioned examples of this in "Developing the Super-Ego": e.g., sometimes it's necessary for a type to express compassion, rather than being an impersonal judge - or for a type to, say, be appreciative of someone's emotional state. The key is to overcome bad habits, which one can do through constant effort to enact good habits, and, as I have done, through use of meditative techniques.

    Over the years my meditation and spiritual work have eliminated or at least quieted a whole bunch of those voices in my head: the voices of Fear, of Laziness, of Self-deprecation, of Irritability, of Cynicality, of Doubt, etc. Instead I listen (as much as I can) to the voices of Morality, of Selflessness, of Hard Work, of Friendliness, of Honesty. This is a long process and for many it can take a whole life. Always try to improve yourself!!! You can do it if you really want to do it and persevere!


    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Also, I've come to the maybe counter-intuitive conclusion that it's actually best to use the Super-ego in preference to the Super-id. I think Gilly came up with something along these lines b/c the 1st function sometimes has to be blocked with the 4th one, etc. It's only the fear associated with the Super-ego that keeps you from using it even when it's necessary to support the base fn. The super-id, on the other hand, is actually a manifestation of the childish, more primitive desires, even though it is valued. If you want to become a complete person, try to work on the deeper super-ego issues rather than taking refuge in the superficial high you get off the super-id. (Not to say that you shouldn't seek out positive socionics relationships, it's just that the maturity of the parties involved is about a hundred times more important than their socionics relationship. My spiritual guide is SLE, by the way, and we get along great.)
    Awesome

    I've been trying to progress in things regarding , , , and , in roughly descending order...

    Hell, all of the posts up in here rule! I've got a lot more to think about now...

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