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Thread: What would you say/do to the keep someone

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Default What would you say/do to the keep someone...

    Ok, she's or he's the one, long term life partner material, you love them, you care for them, you want to keep them, but you screwed up, or they found someone else who stole them away when you weren't at the top of your game, or they're just getting a lot of pressure from her parents because you're not right in their eyes.

    What do/did you say to keep them...

    What do/did you do to keep them...

    Let's hear it... from experience or from just your imagination...

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    What, keep them? Aren't they already gone? Apologize and hope for the best?

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    You contradicted yourself. If they really were the one, they'd tried to communicate to you about it, why you're messing up and can't be in a relationship with them. Is it your own personal mental disorder? Is it something they did that hurt your feelings and it just got swept under the rug and simmered discontentment under the surface?

    In other words, they'd just be real with you wherever you are in the moment, and connect with you, accept things as they are, so you both can work through it and get to the 'next step.' If you want to flow things down in a relationship with somebody, then people need to feel understood.

    It's about understanding and empathy, not 'intelligence' and not how much you know. That's why a lot of smart people have such a horrible time with relationships.

    If they're not trying , then they obviously just don't care about the real relationship. I would remind them that Down Syndrome people might look retarded, and everybody makes fun of them, but at least they know how to treat a human being right. If that doesn't effectively morally chastise them and makes them try harder, then they just don't really care, or they have these storybook ideals about what a relationship is, vs, actually working things through.

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    Hkkmr, if this is about you and a girl... (If it's not then ignore this post)

    The only thing you do wrong is that you can be very patronizing and condescending. I would say that is your main personality flaw. Okay you can just snap back at me and say 'Well you're insecure and too shy.' That's probably true too. But this is about you, not me.

    You were the one that was asking for help, so I'm helping you.

    All you have to do is just shitcan the patronizing and condescension. Don't look down on somebody for what type of job they have or what kind of car they drive. All that stuff is IRRELEVANT to how they could treat you. A lot of middle-class people are really 'status symbol-y' with relationships.

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    Normally, I would do nothing. She has to have interest in me and be independent, othwerise our relationship would have a weak foundation, it can be destroyed from outside. The only circumstance I would try to convince her would be if she was tricked or simply misguided (no one else's fault) into taking a wrong decision. People always make mistakes, myself included, extrapolating from that - I would have liked if someone could be there to open my eyes when needed - I would indeed try to make someone change his/her mind about a future relationship, even when it is not about me, otherwise not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    It's about understanding and empathy, not 'intelligence' and not how much you know. That's why a lot of smart people have such a horrible time with relationships.
    I agree with the first part and your posts in this thread in general [1], just not with the secont part. I mean do you think that's always the case, why would intelligence be mutually exclusive with having a good relationship? In fact I see it as a contradiction, since I assume it's more likely that an intelligent person realizes the actual issues, the fundamentals of a good relationship.
    ---

    [1] - though I don't know what you mean by that "empathy", how is it relevant to the problem. Understanding yes, taking one's person and individuality into yourself, discovering and accepting him/her as he/she is, but empathy, hmm... this is only about taking a decision, IMO, it does not necessarily require emotional attachment to the idea, not from everyone, at least. Just like picking a career, or a car model, you just seek something satisfactory at first, then you pursue it and learn it.
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    Slippery when wet Simon Ssmall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Ok, she's or he's the one, long term life partner material, you love them, you care for them, you want to keep them, but you screwed up, or they found someone else who stole them away when you weren't at the top of your game, or they're just getting a lot of pressure from her parents because you're not right in their eyes.

    What do/did you say to keep them...

    What do/did you do to keep them...

    Let's hear it... from experience or from just your imagination...
    Talk to them (that you love them, you care for them, you want to keep them but you screwed up) and then "let them go". Which means be on top of your game if you aren't but respect whatever decision the person will make.
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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    This is a purely hypothetical thought experiment attempt to get people to document their break up talk. I think it's very relevant to information metabolism and socionic type.

    This was something I wanted to post due to Starfall's post about her breakup and the things that were said by her ex to woo her back. I've witnessed a few breakups and makeups in my life and heard the stories and the conversations.

    Unfortunately, I've never really felt strongly enough for anyone to even bother during a breakup. My relationships usually end with me walking out the door and returning, picking up my stuff and never coming back. I then delete this person from my phone and try to delete them from my memories.

    However, I've thought about what I would say should such a situation occur and I was emotionally involved enough to try to get them back. I just wanted to hear other people's experiences and if they have also never had this experience, things they might say or do.

    I'm looking for a bit more detail too. I've heard my share of breakup talks and makeup talks, it would be interesting to hear what the community here has to say.

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    Slippery when wet Simon Ssmall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    My relationships usually end with me walking out the door and returning, picking up my stuff and never coming back. I then delete this person from my phone and try to delete them from my memories.
    Never understood how this is possible. I am not saying its a bad thing, I'm just incapable of it. I carry each and every relationship with me for all my life, no matter how trivial it is in the great scheeme of things, I still remember them.
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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Probably one of those things.

    This is generally how all my relationships go. I'm more likely to carry people for intellectual, business and practical reasons.

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    Under those circumstances, it's pretty much impossible for the average person.

    Unless you can increase your looks, charisma, social status, wealth, etc., it will more often than not be a losing battle.
    SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    It's not about success or failure, it's just about what people say.

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    I would give her some time and let her decide on her own, it being my fault, some other guy or her parents. I mean, I would definitely want it resolved in some way or another.

    Wouldn't want to force anything which doesn't actually work, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    It's not about success or failure, it's just about what people say.
    Well, in light of that, that's what I say.

    Emotionally, I'm more apt to welcome a break-up if people are being influenced by others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Ok, she's or he's the one, long term life partner material, you love them, you care for them, you want to keep them, but you screwed up, or they found someone else who stole them away when you weren't at the top of your game, or they're just getting a lot of pressure from her parents because you're not right in their eyes.

    What do/did you say to keep them...

    What do/did you do to keep them...

    Let's hear it... from experience or from just your imagination...
    I once heared an ENFJ say that true love will always prevail. So I'll just hope for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    What do/did you say to keep them...
    "everybody deserves a second chance"

    and if she doesn't give you the second chance, than that means she isn't the perfect one after all, but an arrogant bitch.

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    Hmmmm...

    I imagine I'd give a fairly grandiose speech ending with something like, "listen, I just... I just really... like you, I guess, and, god, I really want you around, and I'm more sorry than I ever really thought I would be and... ugh, fuck! I... listen, just tell me if I have a shot here, if I'm wasting your time, I can go or whatever, but well, fuck, I said it already I'm practically obsessed with you and I wanna do whatever I can to convince you to stay with me."

    This could go on for quite a while. Ideally she would interrupt me somewhere in this speech, the earlier the better, as it would get more whiny and beg-y as the speech went on.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walker31 View Post
    Chill out first then I would a. disappear for a while. Or, b. I would put myself where the person could see me and work my magic.
    How do you "work" your magic? What do you do exactly?

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    I don't know, I might want to do the same as silverchris but if, say, someone "stole them away" it's probably too late for that and it's best to move on. I don't approve of begging, no significant other is worth that.

    "She has to have interest in me and be independent, othwerise our relationship would have a weak foundation, it can be destroyed from outside."

    Exactly, this is why begging is pointless. If there is attraction on the other side, then talking to them is worth a try, but if there isn't, there's no way you can really change that.

    Self-analysis: Very cynical about my ability to make an impact on others' romantic feelings ( + /).

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    I guess I have a nagging desire to be chosen for myself, so if a woman I really cared about was leaving, whether I screwed up or someone else caught her attention, I'd let it all hang out emotionally. I'd tell her,

    'you just mean so much to me. You're awesome! You're wonderful! I've never met anyone quite like you and, probably, I never will again. But I'm ok with that. If you're happy, in my own small way, I suppose I will be too. When you're smiling, when you're laughing, I know everything's alright in the universe, and when you're not, well I feel like a man on a mission! I've made mistakes, sure, and I'm sure I'm not done making them, but I love you. Not just because of how you make me feel, but because of who you are. Even if I never see you again, or I'm on the other side of the planet, that's just the way things are for me. Just do me this favor. No matter what happens, have lots of kids.'

    I don't know, something along those lines probably. Sorta drunk.

    Edit: lol ok, pretty much like silverchris. Mine's a little more resigned I guess. :/

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    I'd just be really honest with my feelings, perhaps a little bit forceful and openly emotional rather than trying to be objective and cool as usual, then let her decide what to do. If it was really as bad as hkkmr described - meaning that I truly thought she was the "one" - and she were not to reciprocate, then I might decide to either join the military in a dangerous corp, or take up an extremely dangerous hobby, etc.

    Basically I would not be able to accept her decision, but I lack the ability to push people towards something I want them to do, unless they're really willing.

    Unless you can increase your looks, charisma, social status, wealth, etc., it will more often than not be a losing battle.
    Those qualities are important when you're looking for a relationship and you want to attract people, yet they become pretty much irrilevant when you've been together for a while (unless ofc you're starving or you're depressed or you become disfigured etc.).
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    Quote Originally Posted by walker31 View Post
    I won't go after someone or rather actively persuade them to be with me, when they've lost interest. Even if I succeeded it wouldn't feel right, so, by "put myself where they could see me and work my magic/" I mean just sticking around if I can, If they fall in love they do, if they don't they don't.
    Seems reasonable, but will you let this person in, once again, after he/she realised it isn't working with someone else, and, in conclusion, fell in love with you again ?

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    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    If I were THAT into some girl, and I had done a thorough self-evaluation to be pretty sure that it's because she's actually right for me (and I for her, I suppose, although to be honest I wouldn't care as much about that, at least I don't think I would, and if I did, all the more evidence that she's the one), and not because I had deceived myself into thinking she was right, then I would push for a hard no. Like, none of that soft, "Do whatever you want" stuff. I would basically talk until she either gave in or gave a very firm 'no' indicator. Maybe that's a little mean, to make someone hurt you. But hey, I'm only imagining what I'd do anyway.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Let me clarify a bit what I was looking for. I'm not looking for excuse why this person isn't right for you or whatever. You 100% believe they are the right one for you. For whatever reason, they have left you but they still care about you and you believe you got a shot.

    Things like this happen quite often... it might have happened to you or someone you know..

    Pretend you're that person... the love of your life is leaving you... they still care for you but something has made them go away...

    What do you say, what do you do to keep them... You're 100% commited to keeping them, use all your abilities, all the sweet talk you can muster... Write the dialogue! Imagine the drama! Past Experiences if you have them!

    Lights, action, romance, go!

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    If I were THAT into some girl, and I had done a thorough self-evaluation to be pretty sure that it's because she's actually right for me (and I for her, I suppose, although to be honest I wouldn't care as much about that, at least I don't think I would, and if I did, all the more evidence that she's the one), and not because I had deceived myself into thinking she was right, then I would push for a hard no. Like, none of that soft, "Do whatever you want" stuff. I would basically talk until she either gave in or gave a very firm 'no' indicator. Maybe that's a little mean, to make someone hurt you. But hey, I'm only imagining what I'd do anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    You contradicted yourself. If they really were the one, they'd tried to communicate to you about it, why you're messing up and can't be in a relationship with them. Is it your own personal mental disorder? Is it something they did that hurt your feelings and it just got swept under the rug and simmered discontentment under the surface?

    In other words, they'd just be real with you wherever you are in the moment, and connect with you, accept things as they are, so you both can work through it and get to the 'next step.' If you want to flow things down in a relationship with somebody, then people need to feel understood.

    It's about understanding and empathy, not 'intelligence' and not how much you know. That's why a lot of smart people have such a horrible time with relationships.

    If they're not trying , then they obviously just don't care about the real relationship. I would remind them that Down Syndrome people might look retarded, and everybody makes fun of them, but at least they know how to treat a human being right. If that doesn't effectively morally chastise them and makes them try harder, then they just don't really care, or they have these storybook ideals about what a relationship is, vs, actually working things through.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by walker31 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post

    Seems reasonable, but will you let this person in, once again, after he/she realised it isn't working with someone else, and, in conclusion, fell in love with you again ?
    Good prospect, being second option sucks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Unless you can increase your looks, charisma, social status, wealth, etc., it will more often than not be a losing battle.
    Those qualities are important when you're looking for a relationship and you want to attract people, yet they become pretty much irrilevant when you've been together for a while (unless ofc you're starving or you're depressed or you become disfigured etc.).
    Keep in mind the context in which that statement was made.

    We are not assuming a healthy relationship; at least that is how I interpreted the theme of the OP. If your partner is in an emotional/mental state where they are being influenced by some external factor, you are in a bonafide competition. In order to succeed - assuming that is your desire - you need to compete. Not doing so explains the common phenomenon of 'trading up' in the West.
    SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Let me clarify a bit what I was looking for. I'm not looking for excuse why this person isn't right for you or whatever. You 100% believe they are the right one for you. For whatever reason, they have left you but they still care about you and you believe you got a shot.

    Things like this happen quite often... it might have happened to you or someone you know..

    Pretend you're that person... the love of your life is leaving you... they still care for you but something has made them go away...

    What do you say, what do you do to keep them... You're 100% commited to keeping them, use all your abilities, all the sweet talk you can muster... Write the dialogue! Imagine the drama! Past Experiences if you have them!

    Lights, action, romance, go!
    you're taking the wrong approach here though. convincing NEVER works. The other person has to miss you first. So what you do is disappear for awhile. When/if they miss you, they will reach out to you later and that's when you're sweet, you express your affection but you also can show them that you haven't completely fallen apart and that you truly love them and want the best for them and if they don't want you, then you must not be the best for them, at least not at this time in their life. If they left you, then it must be their decision to want to come back. So all you can do is go about your life and see what happens.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    It's not really about success or failure. I just wanted to hear how different IM would deal with it.

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    I would do and say absolutely nothing. If he wants to stay, he will if not, adios.
    I have sent an email or two to someone I really liked a lot but when he didn't respond, I stopped and looked for another (better) man.

    Quote Originally Posted by walker31 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post

    How do you "work" your magic? What do you do exactly?
    I won't go after someone or rather actively persuade them to be with me, when they've lost interest. Even if I succeeded it wouldn't feel right, so, by "put myself where they could see me and work my magic/" I mean just sticking around if I can, If they fall in love they do, if they don't they don't.
    Ahhh, so you make yourself VISIBLE to the person?

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    I doubt I'd activly attempt to get them back into my life but I'd at least ask for closure; find out why the relationship between us soured, so pretty much what Smmall said
    The worst part of relationships ending, IMO, is not knowing why, even if it's not something I could have done to maintain them, I just want to know
    EII INFj
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    Look at it this way:

    Smart straight guys usually don't fall in love until their 40s or 50s (or even 60s).... because they overthink everything. They want an ideal. They don't want a relationship. I'm actually the same way. I don't want to really connect with anybody right now, because I just can't accept anybody as they really are yet lmao. I'm over-thinking....

    But a straight male ghetto brute will get a girl pregnant at 16 and join the military and not really be all that bright. They will have more 'street smarts' and a physical presence. Why? Because they're not overthinking anything. They're just munching on their pussy like a hot motorcycle stud str8 boy. They're slaying the dragons in real life, and being grounded and there for the girl in reality. Not up in their heads.

    Girls just like guys that are there for them. If they are more compatible with a more middle-class man that lives in his head a lot, then they are, but you at least need to *try* to be grounded in some ways. Otherwise there's just no real connection to the relationship and it's just something you're categorizing in your own head... Women aren't as connected to their dreams the way we men are. They live more in reality and they don't like fantasizing as much.

    A woman wants you, all of you, the entire whole you. Not just your brain.

    Girls are attracted to intelligence. But the problem is, you like thinking before doing anything even if you are an extrovert. You're a smart guy, hkkmr. You're not like some ghetto dumb brute str8 guy who doesn't even know what 'introvert' means, but knows how to put a girl around his shoulder and eat out her pussy like crazy when she wants it. You see what I mean? That's why you might not find love until later in life- unless you just stop the mental bullshit in your head and come back down to earth. It's not all bullshit of course. The fact that you actually think makes you part of the powerful elite on this planet. I'm serious. We just have to know when to turn it down and cool it off a little and just connect.

    Being smart will always be super rare, most people don't think at all and they just do. They just live in the moment. And most other people, being not too bright either, are stimulated by that as well. I would say that's objectively why all of us on the forum have had relationship issues. =D

    What you will most likely end up doing:

    (1 Get a really good job. And make lots of money since you like status
    (2 Attract women with your money. Find a girl who is just as smart as you....fall in love, make upper middle-class babies
    (3 Live a quiet happy life bemusing about intelligent topics
    (4 Probably have a son who is smart but has a lot of social problems

    Ni for the win? =p

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    You let them go.


    You stop feeling.

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    Probably nothing. I'd say something like "OK" and move on to discussing any technical issues remaining (moving away, getting one's stuff back, cancelling any plans etc., depending on circumstances).

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    More song writers and scriptwriters... less advice givers...

    Examples from different people:

    Songs:










    Pictures: John Cusack spent his entire adolescence trying to get the girl back in movies



    Movies: The things we do to get our loved ones back....

    This is about the love affair of a boy... and his two dollars cruelly taken from him by John Cusack... The bastard...



    Then John Cusack starts killing people trying to get his Ex back...



    STELLAAAAAAAAA


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    I'm likely to pine over someone for years, which I have done. And try to extend the relationship in subtle ways that speak to a deep obsession (and near the end I became rather openly emotional because I couldn't keep in all of my feelings anymore and really I think my feelings had taken on a life of their own). And then I focus on my fear they'll abandon me and my inadequacy because if I was only "more" then they would have stayed (and they are so much more than me--if only I could shine so brightly). I have done that as well. Then I delve into my horrible inadequacy, and all the things that are wrong with me that caused me to do this, and my guilt and shame over it, and withdraw from other relationships because I now believe I'm bad in relationships and people are better off staying away. And also after the pining was over, I never wanted to go back. So I've built some more walls in to later further ensure my own misery independence. I don't want to want anyone because I feel my path is just going to be alone because that's the mess I was born with... although if I resolve it, then I can re-enter the world, having resolved the deep defectiveness of my nature so I can interact in the world and be a person. But of course the more I withdraw the worse I get--I may have resolved the issues that caused the initial problem but now there are so many new issues rearing their heads, issues that I fear will consume me, many of which are fears... I think I've been creating my own inner hell of horrors for myself for years now. And I don't want to be dependent on anyone or lose myself in anyone again, but at the same time I really do need help, but I'm afraid that my needs are so intense they could consume the world and so I try to keep them to myself. As you see, I am a total nightmare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    Probably nothing. I'd say something like "OK" and move on to discussing any technical issues remaining (moving away, getting one's stuff back, cancelling any plans etc., depending on circumstances).
    You did that before ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    As you see, I am a total nightmare.
    I have a lot of those at night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I'm likely to pine over someone for years, which I have done. And try to extend the relationship in subtle ways that speak to a deep obsession. And then I focus on my fear they'll abandon me and my inadequacy because if I was only "more" then they would have stayed (and they are so much more than me--if only I could shine so brightly). I have done that as well. Then I delve into my horrible inadequacy, and all the things that are wrong with me that caused me to do this, and my guilt and shame over it, and withdraw from other relationships because I now believe I'm bad in relationships and people are better off staying away. And also after the pining was over, I never wanted to go back. So I've built some more walls in to later further ensure my own misery independence. I don't want to want anyone because I feel my path is just going to be alone because that's the mess I was born with... although if I resolve it, then I can re-enter the world, having resolved the deep defectiveness of my nature so I can interact in the world and be a person. But of course the more I withdraw the worse I get--I may have resolved the issues that caused the initial problem but now there are so many new issues rearing their heads, issues that I fear will consume me, many of which are fears... I think I've been creating my own inner hell of horrors for myself for years now. And I don't want to be dependent on anyone or lose myself in anyone again, but at the same time I really do need help, but I'm afraid that my needs are so intense they could consume the world and so I try to keep them to myself.
    I was a bit this way when I was younger. And I became very independent and didn't "need" anyone. Ended up marrying someone I knew would never leave me, out of my fear, and someone I knew would be okay with my independence. Don't fall into that trap/pattern.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I was a bit this way when I was younger. And I became very independent and didn't "need" anyone. Ended up marrying someone I knew would never leave me, out of my fear, and someone I knew would be okay with my independence. Don't fall into that trap/pattern.
    Thanks. Although I can't imagine ever marrying anyone because I'm so socially maladjusted. I wasn't really ever able to fit in with people for the most part... I sometimes envy the people I know/knew who got married in their early/mid twenties because it shows that they were able to be a person in the world and form healthy relationships with others at least enough to marry someone, and although I would never want most of their lives, that ability they have (the strength of knowing who they are and being able to set their places in the world--which is really two sides of a stable identity) is something I feel I've never had, although I noticed it in others even as a small child. Still I think sometimes if one falls into that kind of life they can miss some of the more radiant parts of themselves because it's like they're living a script. Of course I'm sure I'm living just as much of a script even though it feels unscripted (or like some kind of disaster of a screenplay).

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