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Thread: My Type (and all your various opinions on it)

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    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    Default My Type (and all your various opinions on it)

    Hey there (: I'm somewhat new here.

    After some thinking, I am inclined to believe that I lean towards ILI. I've come to this conclusion via 2 general means:

    1) People's feedback
    While it is generally 'uneducated' and 'layman' because none of them know socionics, what people say (those who know you for a long time) is generally rather accurate. They always tell me that I'm a thinker, and that I'm introverted. Then they will tell me that I'm usually dreamy, and that I don't usually pay attention to my surroundings. Finally, they'll say that I'm very unpredictable, and that they can never read what I'm thinking. I suppose it sounds generally INTp.

    2) My analysis
    I find that introverted intuition may very well be my main function. Usually, I am very inert, living mostly in my imaginations that are often far-divorced from reality. Extroverted thinking may be my second function because the stuff I imagine are usually factual (say the conversion of Bleach characters to a Warcraft III map with balanced skills, damage, mana cost, cool downs etc. although not in detail because I'm too lazy, or maybe the economy of a warring planet and its many moon colonies). I'm also known for a lack of pain sensitivity- often getting injured while playing sports without knowing it. Somehow, my parents always tell me that I need to take care of my health because I tend to neglect it when pursuing projects. When I'm out by myself, it's usually one of my highest priorities, though I'm not very good at it (Si role?) Finally, I'm generally not confident in expressing emotions outwardly (Fe). My friends usually tell me that I'm a person of few emotions, or that I give the 'strong and silent' impression. I tend not to say much in a group, unless I'm close to them or they are talking about stuff that I know about and can contribute to.

    I generally value good relations (Fi) and willpower/force (Se) when it comes to implementation of groundbreaking ideas. By balancing the 2, you get things done without stepping on people's toes and burning important bridges. Finally, I don't usually see the value of brainstorming too much (Ne) because it tends to result in many unrelated although potentially useful ideas that take a lot more energy to sort out and develop. I'm not too sure where Ti falls with me, but I would usually explain to people using examples (Te) although I have a good understanding of the basic principles that I am talking about.

    So that's about it. I hope to get your opinions and feedback!

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    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
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    Sounds like you got a very clear view on your own personality. This fits well to your assumption that you're introverted. From what you've read, it obviously sounds like ILI would be right, but mostly because you told us reasons why the description fits you. There may be other sides of your personality which are unknown to yourself. But don't worry, the forum members here are generally able to discover your real personality traits over time while you interact with them.

    Do you enjoy it if people encourage you to work for your goals and motivate you? (Because you are often a little lazy and struggle with pulling things through?)
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    ഗന᎕ᒹ ±ᗉᚔXᙂഗ woofwoofl's Avatar
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    I've got you as Te-ILI right now

    I'd give you details, but you've already provided them...

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    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    Haha, I was actually thinking of Te subtype as well due to my slightly more outward inclination and desire to actually change things for the sake of efficiency Nice to meet you. Now for the next step. Any SEE chicks on this forum?

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    ഗന᎕ᒹ ±ᗉᚔXᙂഗ woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    Haha, I was actually thinking of Te subtype as well due to my slightly more outward inclination and desire to actually change things for the sake of efficiency Nice to meet you. Now for the next step. Any SEE chicks on this forum?
    Nice to meet you too! as for SEE girls, they're a bit rare here unfortunately...

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    Hiding Typhon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    Hey there (: I'm somewhat new here.

    After some thinking, I am inclined to believe that I lean towards ILI. I've come to this conclusion via 2 general means:

    1) People's feedback
    While it is generally 'uneducated' and 'layman' because none of them know socionics, what people say (those who know you for a long time) is generally rather accurate. They always tell me that I'm a thinker, and that I'm introverted. Then they will tell me that I'm usually dreamy, and that I don't usually pay attention to my surroundings. Finally, they'll say that I'm very unpredictable, and that they can never read what I'm thinking. I suppose it sounds generally INTp.
    No, none of this points to INTp. All intuits are like that, and probably even some sensors too.

    2) My analysis
    I find that introverted intuition may very well be my main function. Usually, I am very inert, living mostly in my imaginations that are often far-divorced from reality. Extroverted thinking may be my second function because the stuff I imagine are usually factual (say the conversion of Bleach characters to a Warcraft III map with balanced skills, damage, mana cost, cool downs etc. although not in detail because I'm too lazy, or maybe the economy of a warring planet and its many moon colonies). I'm also known for a lack of pain sensitivity- often getting injured while playing sports without knowing it. Somehow, my parents always tell me that I need to take care of my health because I tend to neglect it when pursuing projects. When I'm out by myself, it's usually one of my highest priorities, though I'm not very good at it (Si role?) Finally, I'm generally not confident in expressing emotions outwardly (Fe). My friends usually tell me that I'm a person of few emotions, or that I give the 'strong and silent' impression. I tend not to say much in a group, unless I'm close to them or they are talking about stuff that I know about and can contribute to.

    I generally value good relations (Fi) and willpower/force (Se) when it comes to implementation of groundbreaking ideas. By balancing the 2, you get things done without stepping on people's toes and burning important bridges. Finally, I don't usually see the value of brainstorming too much (Ne) because it tends to result in many unrelated although potentially useful ideas that take a lot more energy to sort out and develop. I'm not too sure where Ti falls with me, but I would usually explain to people using examples (Te) although I have a good understanding of the basic principles that I am talking about.

    So that's about it. I hope to get your opinions and feedback!

    None of this means that your iNtuition is your dominant function. I do that, I myself thought for a long time that I might be dom, but theres just now way I am. Now I think youve narrowed down a bit when you say that you are a man of few emotions etc, you are probably more of an NT than NF type. But you could be alpha NT for example; they express few emotions generally and aerent very comfortable in that realm.

    Thats all I really can say. I wouldnt pin you down as INTp just yet, I would take some time go through this less superfically.

    EDIT: And I noticed you play Magic: the gathering. Welcome to the club, lol.

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    Jarno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    I've got you as Te-ILI right now
    yep. I think thats right.

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    Jarno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    Haha, I was actually thinking of Te subtype as well due to my slightly more outward inclination and desire to actually change things for the sake of efficiency Nice to meet you. Now for the next step. Any SEE chicks on this forum?
    Ni subtype: very evolved written language, more than yours :-)
    often agressive and unreasonable, provocative, not pleasant.

    Te subtype: likes humor, direct to the point, effecient in written language, they delete every word that is unnecessary to make a sentence.

    I guess the subtypes can be most easely identified by how they write, it's almost not even a challenge on this forum to see the difference.

    ps how old are you and what kind of job do you do, or what do you study? I'm curious, I've always had trouble finding something that interests me for a long time.

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    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    Sounds like you got a very clear view on your own personality. This fits well to your assumption that you're introverted. From what you've read, it obviously sounds like ILI would be right, but mostly because you told us reasons why the description fits you. There may be other sides of your personality which are unknown to yourself. But don't worry, the forum members here are generally able to discover your real personality traits over time while you interact with them.

    Do you enjoy it if people encourage you to work for your goals and motivate you? (Because you are often a little lazy and struggle with pulling things through?)
    Haha cool. I don't like naggers of all sorts, but people who lead by example, who occasionally remind me of the vision, of the effort we need to commit to make it real, I admire them and I enjoy working with them. Honestly, I haven't found someone like that yet at my current workplace.

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    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    @ Typhon

    Wait how did you know that I used to play magic? Haha. Anyway thx for the input. I did consider INTj for awhile though. Usually I tend to exhibit the Ti body language when I'm considering things (furrowed brows, head resting on fist like plato, stroking chin) but I don't suppose that is what I actually enjoy doing, or something that I can comfortably say, 'my realm' although I know it is my strength. That is why I switched to gamma. And besides, I prefer Se more than Si, hands down. I suppose that is the main difference between Alpha and Gamma NT.

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    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    @ Jarno

    Right now I'm working for the army, it's compulsory, and I'm paid a meager allowance until I can leave which is say 16 months time. Nonetheless, I am involved in many meaningful projects, some of which will be legacies that will be continued in my absence. Others are generally designed to change mindsets and meet milestones that no one has ever achieved before me. In the end, I just hope to change the office environment to one of positivity, fulfillment, and efficiency, where people enjoy each others' presence and work for its own intrinsic benefits.

    I'll be studying psychology in 2 years time, as well as business. Also play music; drums, guitar, keyboard, and sing. Planning to cut an album one day!

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    Hiding Typhon's Avatar
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    You mentioned "mana costs", thats how I know, lol.

    I beleive you when you say you prefer over but let me ask you this; whos to say you cant be LIE then? The way you explained things doesnt point to any functional ordering. Though I dont see much role, true.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Your writing style is very similar to mine. Althrough there are a couple of members that type me ILI.

    Why don't you try to describe yourself and make a post without using the functions.

    Introversion and extroversion are not the same in socionics and common usage. Many people who appear introverted are actually extrotim in socionics and this is because socionic isn't behavior but cognitive.

    The fact that you're describing your type using constructs without supplying empirical information makes me think you might be valuing as well.

    Giving examples is not really a Te thing, because Si has more to do with experience while Te is more to do with facts, measurements and empirical descriptions.

    Also from the way you describe things, it doesn't match the cynical and skeptical tone that most ILI's adopt.

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    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    I can see why hkkmr suggests ILE. The emphasis on doing projects definitely sounds extroverted; I don't see anything to suggest introversion. NT types are usually the most "introverted" in the colloquial sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    @ Jarno

    Right now I'm working for the army, it's compulsory, and I'm paid a meager allowance until I can leave which is say 16 months time. Nonetheless, I am involved in many meaningful projects, some of which will be legacies that will be continued in my absence. Others are generally designed to change mindsets and meet milestones that no one has ever achieved before me. In the end, I just hope to change the office environment to one of positivity, fulfillment, and efficiency, where people enjoy each others' presence and work for its own intrinsic benefits.
    That sounds very LIE to me.

    [edit: actually, the being inert and detached does sound intuitive-leading rather than logic-leading]

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    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Can you elaborate on why you like more than ? What do those mean to you?

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    My impression of you is ILI. I read your post in the Shadow thread and it sounds like something I would think up. Also your description pretty much fits the bill of ILI.... so works for me. I also relate a lot to what you have said. Obviously thats not the best criteria to type yourself with but it stands for something.

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    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    @ Typhon

    A lot of things have mana costs I am inclined to say ILI>LIE mainly due to my natural orientation. Say if I'm walking down the street, my primary preoccupation would be the imagination of multiple situations and scenarios. They could be of different nature: some are social, some are economic, some are political, some are fantastical. The common characteristic that runs among these imaginations is that they all have potential to be developed to a very detailed level should I decide to embellish it with Te knowledge.

    Say I've been developing a dream world where its main product of export is Prometheum, a sort of fuel that is used for flamethrowers. I would have imagined a city where they use flamethrowers to control the fast-growing wildlife that surrounds civilization. Usually I will also have an idea of how many walls the city has (standard 4), the various zones of the city (fairly concentric with rulers in the centre, residents on the next ring, merchants on the third nearest to the gates, and industries outside of the city itself), its political orientation (generally monarchic with democratic voting) and trading partners (mainly a nearby weapons manufacturing ally planet that specializes in making flamethrowers; hence they trade rare Prometheum for the actual hardware that this planet requires to fight off wildlife). I suppose I can actually produce the physical model of the city, together with exact measurement, economic growth and trading figures, possibly a forecast of its expansion in the next few years but honestly, I'm just too lazy to. If say I plan to work on it full time, I may be able to develop an entire system (with physical models and exact numerical figures as explained above) of fantasy planets which are interdependent or warring with each other, and maybe sell the idea to a bunch of hobbyist nerds. I'm really just too lazy to.

    I suppose this seems to imply Ni dominance over Te. Furthermore, I used to be subject to the Ni 'autist' social role when I was young- I'd just sit there, not move much, not talk much, and daydream or take in information around me until some Se/Fe person comes in and tries to talk to me.

    @hkkmr

    I did consider Alpha NT for a time, and even ILE specifically. Let me try the describe myself thing.

    For a long time, I have generally been a very shy person. I have always paid special interest to the opposite sex, because first and foremost, they have different physiology, which is very attractive to me, and secondly, because I could never seem to really understand them without personal interaction first. Nonetheless, my observations have led me to be able to generalize their personality based on a first impression of them; throw me a random chick on the streets, and I'll tell you her suitability as a life partner, some of her major flaws, as well as strengths. This of course, could only be done via an amalgamation of psychological theories, particularly personality theories and body language theories. And yes, I tend to notice body language very well, although its interpretation is still subject to changes every now an then. For example, I have always regarded the female grooming action (brushing their hair back across their face etc.) was a sign of attraction. Right now I'm revising it to mean a sign of respect because I see it done too many times to guys to whom they aren't particularly sexually attracted to. Also, they always do it to me. All these, of course, is only possible because I decided to internalize current knowledge on the subject for the sake of understanding the mysteries of the opposite sex. More of my explorations in this field some other time.

    I am generally interested in sports. To me, there is a flow moment in every sporting activity that can only be achieved via 1) technical development 2) mental/emotional preparation 3) teamwork (if teams are involved). This flow is what I always aim to achieve. Nonetheless, my natural insensitivity to bodily sensations such as pain often hamper this goal; I end up being unnecessarily injured, or worn out by the end of the activity. That being said, each activity is often analyzed to search for improvements. I have improved to the extent that I no longer suffer from muscle cramps (used to be so debilitating that I could not walk after each activity) by implementing regular stretching breaks during the activity and monitoring the pain level on my lower limbs now and then. I still have to work on movement and weight distribution because I just recently injured my knee area due to failure to note the above.

    Finally, I'm very intolerant of stupidity. If someone, out of ignorance, attempts to exhort others with an ineffective, counter-productive, and inconsiderate argument, I will usually give that person the benefit of the doubt that perhaps he is lacking information in certain areas, or that he really is an idiot. Say if he persists, and it has any bearing on me, for instance if it affects my job scope, my relationships, or my free time, I generally will not give mercy in putting down his argument as quickly and efficiently as possible. At times like this, I will raise my voice to a certain extent and use more sarcasm and cynicism than usual. Association with the opposite sex has tempered down my cynicism over time due to the general calming/soothing effect of most females (their attention, smiles, and weakness), but some things are just unforgivable.

    @thehotelambush

    Se to me means the observation of current space and material around you, and the knowledge of the necessary force required to attain it, manipulate it, or remove it. Si is the observation of sensations or material within you, which includes visual among others, hence explaining why Si can also seem Se in some cases since vision generally covers more distance than the other senses (taste, touch, smell, hearing, sight -> in order of distance covered) even though Si is generally internal.

    The manifestation of Se is to play around with the external world. The manifestation of Si is to derive pleasure internally. Se's therefore come across as aggressive, energetic, and wild at times. They desire to acquire, or to provide. Si's on the other hand, tend to prefer slower activities (unless they are into extreme sports for the sensual stimulation) and savoring of pleasant sensations. In a sense, Ni's will benefit from the Se's constant provision of their own acquisitions (deep strategy with material always wins), while Ne's will benefit from the pleasant sensual environments that Si's establish (no better space for creativity than a comfortable space).

    This is of course, my simplistic understanding of it. I could be very wrong.

    @Sumer1an

    Ah I suppose that helps (:

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Dude, you sound just like me.

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    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    Possibly. Either way, SEI chicks are generally cute too. hkkmr are you Ti or Ne subtype? I will not commit to ILE yet since all I have for now is people from both camps saying that 1) I sound like them 2) I functionally fit both types. That beings said, I will not commit to ILI either. Only NTp for now.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    I think I'm a Ti subtype. But there are different subtype system.

    In DCNH, I am either C or N.

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    Sensory Ethical Extrovert
    females, where on this forum?

    Well, most certainly I will care. I will care for her sanity and her sense of self-esteem. If she does do it to me, chances are she is 1) drunk 2) already in bed with me. Notice there is no option 3 saying that she is a whore. This is because I do not perceive her as a degenerate slut who requires attention and is willing to get it through whatever means possible. If say she IS drunk, I will send her home. There is no honour in easy conquests. If she is already in bed with me, I'll flip her over and rub my face in her tits. Chances are, she enjoys being below, not on top, no matter what she actually says. Hence if she performs the above action, I will most certainly care, only to what extent and in what situation.
    you are clearly way too assertive/imposing for Se DS

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    I'm a Ti-Te! Skeptic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aestrivex View Post
    Sensory Ethical Extrovert
    females, where on this forum?

    Well, most certainly I will care. I will care for her sanity and her sense of self-esteem. If she does do it to me, chances are she is 1) drunk 2) already in bed with me. Notice there is no option 3 saying that she is a whore. This is because I do not perceive her as a degenerate slut who requires attention and is willing to get it through whatever means possible. If say she IS drunk, I will send her home. There is no honour in easy conquests. If she is already in bed with me, I'll flip her over and rub my face in her tits. Chances are, she enjoys being below, not on top, no matter what she actually says. Hence if she performs the above action, I will most certainly care, only to what extent and in what situation.
    you are clearly way too assertive/imposing for Se DS
    How do you figure? I resent the idea that Se DS types are incapable of being able to say what they mean despite how you might react to it. Actually, lack of attention paid to the objective emotional reaction of others when writing something would point directly to problems with Fe, so now I am even more curious to hear your explanation.
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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    [quote=Typhon;803064]
    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post

    2) My analysis
    I find that introverted intuition may very well be my main function. Usually, I am very inert, living mostly in my imaginations that are often far-divorced from reality. Extroverted thinking may be my second function because the stuff I imagine are usually factual (say the conversion of Bleach characters to a Warcraft III map with balanced skills, damage, mana cost, cool downs etc. although not in detail because I'm too lazy, or maybe the economy of a warring planet and its many moon colonies). I'm also known for a lack of pain sensitivity- often getting injured while playing sports without knowing it. Somehow, my parents always tell me that I need to take care of my health because I tend to neglect it when pursuing projects. When I'm out by myself, it's usually one of my highest priorities, though I'm not very good at it (Si role?) Finally, I'm generally not confident in expressing emotions outwardly (Fe). My friends usually tell me that I'm a person of few emotions, or that I give the 'strong and silent' impression. I tend not to say much in a group, unless I'm close to them or they are talking about stuff that I know about and can contribute to.

    I generally value good relations (Fi) and willpower/force (Se) when it comes to implementation of groundbreaking ideas. By balancing the 2, you get things done without stepping on people's toes and burning important bridges. Finally, I don't usually see the value of brainstorming too much (Ne) because it tends to result in many unrelated although potentially useful ideas that take a lot more energy to sort out and develop. I'm not too sure where Ti falls with me, but I would usually explain to people using examples (Te) although I have a good understanding of the basic principles that I am talking about.

    So that's about it. I hope to get your opinions and feedback!

    None of this means that your iNtuition is your dominant function. I do that, I myself thought for a long time that I might be dom, but theres just now way I am. Now I think youve narrowed down a bit when you say that you are a man of few emotions etc, you are probably more of an NT than NF type. But you could be alpha NT for example; they express few emotions generally and aerent very comfortable in that realm.

    Thats all I really can say. I wouldnt pin you down as INTp just yet, I would take some time go through this less superfically.

    EDIT: And I noticed you play Magic: the gathering. Welcome to the club, lol.
    You're missing a lot; this person is an introvert clearly because he said he lives inside his head; I am, however, not typing him as ILI

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    You come a bit as ILI but my question is : why Ni over Ne ? Can you elaborate on this ?
    "The final delusion is the belief that one has lost all delusion."

    -- Maurice Chapelain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    Say I've been developing a dream world where its main product of export is ...
    ...
    ...

    I suppose this seems to imply Ni dominance over Te.
    I think this is Ne imagination actually, the way you described it. It sounds weird to me.

    I often imaging talking to someone, and then predicting his respons, back and forth a couple of times. Is that something you do?

    Now you got me doubting too about your type.

    I remember a former member, forgot his name, who got us fooled as being an ILI because of his strong imagination. I guess Ne and Ni are difficult to separate.

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    from wikisocion : Ni dom seems to have hard time to considerate relationship beetween different matter/phenomen/idea without feeling psychologically bad (see the "end of the discussion" critic Ne get in this forum when they try to investigate about possible link beetween socionic and other typology-theory or more out there unrelated idea (YOURE RELATIONSHIP ARE BULLSHIT. point. no explanation.)), while Ne type are boosted with this, with the possibility of a wider understanding (this not mean Ni are dumbass, they understand differently thats all).

    daydreaming can be both imo. Ne daydreaming is often "expending the reality" from known object : 1 idea lead to another lead to another lead to another and the model /daydream grow more and more (exemple : invent 30 new funny weapon for an interressant videogame, personnage characteristic, add alien, o yes and what if multiplayer online, play it into your head, and add teleportation, and add special ability for 30 sec after some action, add kdfjsdklfjsdklfjsdfjslf oohhh shit I need to implement this IRL!)

    Ni daydreaming : idk
    Last edited by noid; 08-25-2011 at 02:19 PM.
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    I'm a Ti-Te! Skeptic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    from wikisocion : Ni dom seems to have hard time to considerate relationship beetween different matter/phenomen/idea without feeling psychologically bad (see the "end of the discussion" critic Ne get in this forum when they try to investigate about possible link beetween socionic and other typology-theory or more out there unrelated idea (YOURE RELATIONSHIP ARE BULLSHIT. point. no explanation.)), while Ne type are boosted with this, with the possibility of a wider understanding (this not mean Ni are dumbass, they understand differently thats all).

    daydreaming can be both imo. Ne daydreaming is often "expending the reality" from known object : 1 idea lead to another lead to another lead to another and the model /daydream grow more and more (exemple : invent 30 new funny weapon for an interressant videogame, personnage characteristic, add alien, o yes and what if multiplayer online, play it into your head, and add teleportation, and add special ability for 30 sec after some action, add kdfjsdklfjsdklfjsdfjslf oohhh shit I need to implement this IRL!)

    Ni daydreaming : idk
    I will have to ask you, too, to elaborate on these points and explain the theoretical basis for them.

    First paragraph; I could not find where in wikisocion you obtained that information, and found that the ILI page in particular specifically mentions their ability to recognize hidden connections and the like. All Ns are about relationships between ideas, and with NTs, abstraction and theory more so. I'm not sure why you chose to reserve one theoretical connection for Ne and the negation of that connection to Ni, when both are capable of creating it.

    Second paragraph; I very much understand what you mean by expanding the reality - making objective and outward connections between objects - as Ne. For the second part, I do not see how juxtaposition of ideas with one another and their following reactions or the 'creative' factor in imagination are depicted as characteristic of Ne as though they could be differentiated from all of N in general, so could you possibly explain the theoretical basis for that as well?
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    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    @hkkmr

    If i was ILE I'd think Ti subtype as well. But really, I don't identify with ILE because I know a lot of ILEs IRL and I am clearly different from them. For instance, they all seem very goofy, and never really serious. I don't know. I don't usually describe ILEs as intense. Everyone describes me as being intense every now and then. And they always tell me to smile more

    @Jarno

    That inner conversation thing? I do that ALL the time. If I know/like the person very much, it can go on for ages. Sometimes it even skips forward in time a little. I do this to assess relationship potential and to see where I want the relationship to actually head. Nonetheless, I always correct for the fact that my imaginations are the strongest/best possibility; IRL, things are always was less intense.

    Possibly the reason why I do not go in depth into that 'Ne' imagination thing is because I don't favour Ne. That is why, while I believe I am fully capable of creating alternate universes similar to that created by George Lucas (LII), I won't do such a thing. I'm not interested in that. If anything, I go into the more Ni aspect of imagination (I imagine real scenarios in my dream world, how things unfold, how things go OVER time instead of just jumping here and there; in fact the details of the world are slowly embellished as I travel over time in my dream world, does this sound like something you do more often)?

    So I suppose, Ne imagination is like hopping all over the place, while Ni imagination is scenario based and occurs over time.

    @Skeptic

    Thanks for asking all those questions. I'd have asked them myself because quite a lot of those feedback were either poorly crafted or unsubstantiated by any form of evidence. Btw just interested, what do you mean by you're a Ti-Te?

    @Maritsa

    hkkmr's point was that intuitives generally are 'head-focused' people hence introversion and intuition are often mixed up if you are using 'living inside his head' as a basis for typing. That is not missing a lot. In fact, you are missing a lot. Of explanations. I also come to gripes with people who use 2 semi-colons in one sentence and do not end in a fullstop. You are fully forgiven, however, if it was because you pressed enter before filling in the reasons why you are, due to some superior reason of yours, not typing me as ILI. Do substantiate, or don't post at all.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Logical subtype (The Selector)

    Victor Gulenko

    Self-centred and pensive. Their ideas do not have direct connection with reality, for example philosophy, religion, bioenergetics etc. Their favourite occupation is comparing different logical systems. A type of office scientist. A very slim figure is characteristic for them. Angular in their movements, does not pay attention to external appearance, worry little about their health.
    Meged/Ovcharov

    The logical subtype tries to project the impression of a serious person. Can be sharp and, from time to time, even inconsiderate. They are self-assured and speak quickly, usually with a categorical tone. Are unduly categorical in their judgments and tend to impose their opinion on others. Sometimes appears energetic and self-confident; are impatient and cannot always wait for a speaker to finish before interrupting. Often take great new interests and try to find these a practical embodiment; will actively and vigorously defend their interests but after they flare up and offend someone they will consciously make note and try to correct their position. Very ambitious and prone to take offense to mere trifles, however, after a while will again return to an affable and benevolent state. Behaviors are unpredictable and full of contrast. Appear tenacious, gait and gestures seem confident but are poorly coordinated. Pose without restraint, capable of quickly closing a distance, may embrace or kiss the interlocutor.
    Sexual behavior

    Are somewhat distrustful of feelings, they will only show their own slowly and with time. When they are confident in love are initiative taking, affectionate, and take care to satisfy their partner; always improving sexual techniques. They need a decisive, emotional and sexual partner, capable of quickly convincing them of their feelings and providing reciprocity. It is necessary to make use of constant emotional stimuli: joke, coquetry, jealousy.
    ILE-Ti are pensive and serious appearing. As far as imagination, I think it's not something so simple as time and alternatives.



    I'm not sure it is possible to accurately describe the fantasy of life or type by the fantasy life of a person too conclusively, althrough the information content is certainly relevant to type.


    ILE are cause effect thinkers(Gulenko thinking styles) and are very strict in their deductions. The only reason Ne type can seem it's all over the place is because as a means of communication it grasps a high number of possibilities and potentials. Ti is not a all of the place function, it is very strict and formal so Ti subtype ILEs may appear very strict and formal themselves. The ego function is often about communication, don't forget that all types have all 8 functions in some capacity in socionics.

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    I will have to ask you, too, to elaborate on these points and explain the theoretical basis for them.

    First paragraph; I could not find where in wikisocion you obtained that information, and found that the ILI page in particular specifically mentions their ability to recognize hidden connections and the like. All Ns are about relationships between ideas, and with NTs, abstraction and theory more so. I'm not sure why you chose to reserve one theoretical connection for Ne and the negation of that connection to Ni, when both are capable of creating it.

    Second paragraph; I very much understand what you mean by expanding the reality - making objective and outward connections between objects - as Ne. For the second part, I do not see how juxtaposition of ideas with one another and their following reactions or the 'creative' factor in imagination are depicted as characteristic of Ne as though they could be differentiated from all of N in general, so could you possibly explain the theoretical basis for that as well?
    There isnt theorical basis. The guy just come on the board, probably without many knowledge (with all respect), so its perhaps better to not bother him with static internal quality unmutable pattern of dynamical field object or other underground world. I just try to make it "see/feel" whats Ne and if he can identify. Its perhaps a fail, too.

    For the second part, I do not see how juxtaposition of ideas with one another and their following reactions or the 'creative' factor in imagination are depicted as characteristic of Ne as though they could be differentiated from all of N in general, so could you possibly explain the theoretical basis for that as well?
    I think this part was ESPECIALLY Ne, ie basing your "creative idea" on the hidden "static quality" of various stuff, seing whats is agregable, whats similar, ect. At least ive generated quickly it with this style of thought

    and found that the ILI page in particular specifically mentions their ability to recognize hidden connections and the like
    Its for this reason I speak about external object, and not "hidden" connection.
    on the other Ni dom page, IEI, author on Ne ignoring :
    An IEI is not as likely to give as much weight to external patterns and connections
    Ne page, Ne ignoring :
    The individual understands "external" connections made between different areas of knowledge and experience, but prefers to focus instead on "hidden" connections
    So Ne and Ni are about relation, but its not the same type of relation. Ne is more about "expanding reality with "known" object/pattern, based on the quality/potential of these object/pattern", brainstorming for find new solution/new creative stuff, ect.
    Ni : idk, Im not aware to it... Other can give some light here.


    All Ns are about relationships between ideas, and with NTs, abstraction and theory more so. I'm not sure why you chose to reserve one theoretical connection for Ne and the negation of that connection to Ni, when both are capable of creating it.
    Ive not explicitely attributed the negation of the connection to Ni, Ni generate own peculiar connection and Ne own too. It was just an exemple, my goal isnt to do a Ni vs Ne stuff (I think Ni is better even if im Ne). I dont doubt Ni is about abstraction and theory too. Im curious to see Ni theory...
    "The final delusion is the belief that one has lost all delusion."

    -- Maurice Chapelain

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    @hkkmr

    I've a feeling you will argue about Ti subtypes being more severe and serious, and thanks for highlighting those points in your post. The thing about ILE-Ti is that they also tend to ignore their health. I don't. I believe it is very important to take care of my health and attempt to monitor it as much as possible. You can call it role Si, or whatever, but that is what I do. Avoiding too much fried food, walking instead of taking public transport, eating more fruits and vegetables, drinking more water (especially when a sore throat is coming up), these are things that I find are important to me, albeit a chore at times. I also don't like people telling me what I should eat and what I should not. I also hate people trying to 'help me take care of my health'.

    I would usually wait for the speaker to finish before interrupting. Not sure if that's Fi valuing, but I just believe in listening to what he has to say first out of respect, though I expect the same from him as well. Hence that impatient, interrupting thing is completely out of feel for me.

    Nonetheless, chances are I'm just nit-picking on gulenko's description. I'll still be considering ILE-Ti, but right now I'm still more convinced on ILI.

    @ noid

    Thanks for understanding your perspective and purpose. I do have generally a good feel for what is Ne and what is Ni. But here's the Ni summary:

    themes : development over time (processes), cause and effect, history, planning, forecasting, past/future, rhythm, speed, urgency, fantasy

    state of mind : a dreamy, mysterious, wistful, melancholic, or reflective state of inner discovery and searching; reflecting upon the future or the past

    I always know when things will happen before they do, and just by looking at a few key indicators I can predict with sufficient accuracy how things will be heading. And yes, fantasy is under the realm of Ni ^^ but of course I do understand that all types do it, it's just the level of complexity and the fact that Ni fantasy is very time and scenario based as compared to the fantasies of other types. There is often a deep level of detail, ranging from personal emotions, to thoughts, to physical details, to history, to future, to every single thing you can possibly think of.

    Ne, on the other hand, is focused on looking for novel connections, resulting in something unexpected and out-of-the-ordinary. I suppose then, most types use Ni to fantasize, just like they use Ne to brainstorm new ideas.

    This then does not mean that ESTj's do not fantasize or that they are bad at fantasizing, but rather that their imaginations are possibly 1-dimensional as compared to that of a Ni dominant type. Same goes to ISFj's and brainstorming. They will tend to produce more stock ideas (but possibly very well-developed ones) due to poor Ne.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    @hkkmr

    I've a feeling you will argue about Ti subtypes being more severe and serious, and thanks for highlighting those points in your post. The thing about ILE-Ti is that they also tend to ignore their health. I don't. I believe it is very important to take care of my health and attempt to monitor it as much as possible. You can call it role Si, or whatever, but that is what I do. Avoiding too much fried food, walking instead of taking public transport, eating more fruits and vegetables, drinking more water (especially when a sore throat is coming up), these are things that I find are important to me, albeit a chore at times. I also don't like people telling me what I should eat and what I should not. I also hate people trying to 'help me take care of my health'.

    I would usually wait for the speaker to finish before interrupting. Not sure if that's Fi valuing, but I just believe in listening to what he has to say first out of respect, though I expect the same from him as well. Hence that impatient, interrupting thing is completely out of feel for me.

    Nonetheless, chances are I'm just nit-picking on gulenko's description. I'll still be considering ILE-Ti, but right now I'm still more convinced on ILI.
    Alpha are not really all that healthy. I think you mentioned you don't notice when you get hurt and the like, this is more what ILE are like, they have Si dual seeking so they want to be healthy but often are simply unaware of it because it's their weakest function.

    As a quadra, Alpha's are hedonists in all sense of the word, sensually and intellectually, we party moderately and enjoy life and but aren't party animals or health nuts. SEI's are nurturers but they aren't health nuts. They will take care of you, but it won't necessarily be healthy. It might be a bag of cocaine or a bong hit or a x pill. They'll also pick your head out of the toilet and help you get over your sicknesses.

    The real health nuts are the NF's.

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    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
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    @hkkmr

    Thanks for addressing the Si issue. Helped me get a clearer perspective of Si in Alpha. Are you still of the position that I'm Ne>Ni?

    Also, I'm not familiar with gulenko thinking styles. Do enlighten me!

    I think people should know that the 1st and 3rd function is a "bold" function and is commonly very developed in a person depending on the environment and circumstance. It is something a person uses relatively freely and directly versus cautious functions 2nd and 4th. As always, practice makes perfect.
    This is the reason why I still maintain ILI>ILE. I use Si boldly, based on what I've learned from reading and observing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Dude, you sound just like me.
    He does, except he's monologuing, it seems.

    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    @hkkmr

    I've a feeling you will argue about Ti subtypes being more severe and serious, and thanks for highlighting those points in your post. The thing about ILE-Ti is that they also tend to ignore their health. I don't. I believe it is very important to take care of my health and attempt to monitor it as much as possible. You can call it role Si, or whatever, but that is what I do. Avoiding too much fried food, walking instead of taking public transport, eating more fruits and vegetables, drinking more water (especially when a sore throat is coming up), these are things that I find are important to me, albeit a chore at times. I also don't like people telling me what I should eat and what I should not. I also hate people trying to 'help me take care of my health'.

    I would usually wait for the speaker to finish before interrupting. Not sure if that's Fi valuing, but I just believe in listening to what he has to say first out of respect, though I expect the same from him as well. Hence that impatient, interrupting thing is completely out of feel for me.

    Nonetheless, chances are I'm just nit-picking on gulenko's description. I'll still be considering ILE-Ti, but right now I'm still more convinced on ILI.
    Alpha are not really all that healthy. I think you mentioned you don't notice when you get hurt and the like, this is more what ILE are like, they have Si dual seeking so they want to be healthy but often are simply unaware of it because it's their weakest function.

    As a quadra, Alpha's are hedonists in all sense of the word, sensually and intellectually, we party moderately and enjoy life and but aren't party animals or health nuts. SEI's are nurturers but they aren't health nuts. They will take care of you, but it won't necessarily be healthy. It might be a bag of cocaine or a bong hit or a x pill. They'll also pick your head out of the toilet and help you get over your sicknesses.

    The real health nuts are the NF's.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    @hkkmr

    Thanks for addressing the Si issue. Helped me get a clearer perspective of Si in Alpha. Are you still of the position that I'm Ne>Ni?

    Also, I'm not familiar with gulenko thinking styles. Do enlighten me!

    I think people should know that the 1st and 3rd function is a "bold" function and is commonly very developed in a person depending on the environment and circumstance. It is something a person uses relatively freely and directly versus cautious functions 2nd and 4th. As always, practice makes perfect.
    This is the reason why I still maintain ILI>ILE. I use Si boldly, based on what I've learned from reading and observing.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=12939

    I'm not sure if you use Si boldly, you probably use Se boldly because you're always getting injured and ignoring your pain.

    I think you're pretty good as ILE, and less so as ILI, you just don't talk like a ILI.

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    awww I almost hoped you were another Reuben.

    anyway welcome aboard

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    Extroverted thinking may be my second function because the stuff I imagine are usually factual (say the conversion of Bleach characters to a Warcraft III map with balanced skills, damage, mana cost, cool downs etc. although not in detail because I'm too lazy, or maybe the economy of a warring planet and its many moon colonies).
    I'm sorry, but I just can't get over this.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    @Galen

    You mean how the words bolded aren't factual? By principle of charity, they aren't facts in this reality, but they are so in another. I suppose you could always use another word.

    @hkkmr

    I'm slowly being won over by your persistent arguments.

    Mine->Yours

    I'm quiet, intense, unemotional. -> characteristic of Ti subtype ILE
    I ignore pain, and value good health -> Role Se plus Si valuing
    I generally live in my head -> like most intuitives
    I think in a causal manner -> ILEs are like so (not attributed to Te?)

    So a few more issues to iron out: Fe vs Fi valuing? Any deciding factor to conclude Ne>Ni once and for all?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    Any deciding factor to conclude Ne>Ni once and for all?
    Yes, what is your attitude towards Brainetics?

    (i)NTFS

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    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    Extroverted thinking may be my second function because the stuff I imagine are usually factual (say the conversion of Bleach characters to a Warcraft III map with balanced skills, damage, mana cost, cool downs etc. although not in detail because I'm too lazy, or maybe the economy of a warring planet and its many moon colonies).
    I'm sorry, but I just can't get over this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
    @Galen

    You mean how the words bolded aren't factual? By principle of charity, they aren't facts in this reality, but they are so in another. I suppose you could always use another word.
    Galen was probably trying to say that hardly what you described could be associated to Te, or at least taken as an indicator of Te ego. I see it as multi-functional activity that suggests strong intuition, but not much more is definitive.

    If you want to stablish a correlation between an activity, behavor, thought pattern... etc that emerges from the psyche and a concrete function, you would need a more "pure" phenomenom which could be constrasted with it, observing if there's a clash with its alternative (for being discarded) or not.

    For example, the rational function you're employing could very well be seen as a Ti. You're making a system (that virtual world) internally consistent, applying a set of rules which are contained in it in order to make it balanced.

    Internal consistency, "internally balanced" are usually understood as the work or Ti. Well this case has probably a contribution of both T's but anyway I do not see a contradiction with Ti.

    Set of rules =/= facts, much less if the rules are "internal". If so, Maths would be a Te discipline and I'm sure you agree it has a lot of Ti (but not only, of course). Te is, roughly, the usage of an external point of referce as the basic framework for an evaluation. Je in fact, but Te as the T particular case. There is no set of internal and "universal" rules, but observable phenomenons being ponderated as particular cases with particular conditions. The rule should be adjusted to the observed (external) phenomenon and not the opposite, so to speak.

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