View Poll Results: Which Identity relation is better?

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  • Same Type, same subtype

    7 87.50%
  • Same Type, different subtype

    1 12.50%
  • Subtype makes no difference.

    0 0%
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Thread: Subtypes in Identical Relations

  1. #1

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    Default Subtypes in Identical Relations

    If you meet your identity but happen to be different subtypes, will that affect anything? Or will you basically still get along like two peas in a pod (cool expression, i know. you can take it, i don't mind)?

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    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    Well, if said identity is not the same subtype as me, I'll feel less redundant.

    ESTj
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    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    I imagine it might lean toward a mirror relation? To me subtypes are just a way to explain individual differences within the same type. I think your base will always be stronger and more valued than you're creative function.

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    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walker31 View Post
    I imagine it might lean toward a mirror relation? To me subtypes are just a way to explain individual differences within the same type. I think your base will always be stronger and more valued than you're creative function.
    That's abominable! Totally wrong! I can't believe a sane human like you would post such stuff! You should have used "your," not the contraction!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  5. #5
    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walker31 View Post
    I imagine it might lean toward a mirror relation? To me subtypes are just a way to explain individual differences within the same type. I think your base will always be stronger and more valued than you're creative function.
    I dunno, I personally have always felt a stronger conscious valuing of Fi > Ne. My relationships with my Ne-ENFp friends have always felt a bit more mirror-ey than identical-ey: they come off as more distracted and non-sequiter while I'm more on the introspective side. It can kinda feel like I'm waiting for them to come down from their infinite mental musings and be serious people again, but it doesn't happen often enough. I can play along with them with relative ease, but after a while I can get kinda tired of it.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walker31 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    I dunno, I personally have always felt a stronger conscious valuing of Fi > Ne. My relationships with my Ne-ENFp friends have always felt a bit more mirror-ey than identical-ey: they come off as more distracted and non-sequiter while I'm more on the introspective side. It can kinda feel like I'm waiting for them to come down from their infinite mental musings and be serious people again, but it doesn't happen often enough. I can play along with them with relative ease, but after a while I can get kinda tired of it.
    Do you use Fi more than Ne? Or, do you just value it more Ne?
    I'm not totally sure about that tbh. All things considered I would say that the Ne part of me is always on, but I don't pay that much conscious attention to it. I can definitely tell when I'm affected or driven by an Fi mindset though, and it tends to be the more deciding factor in how I understand the world. I've talked with an Ne-ENTp friend of mine, and he's said that Ti is also very much something that's always on but not always paid attention to. Whether or not there is a pattern here I can't say for sure, but it would have me think so.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    On the outside people say I seem pretty Ne. On the inside I feel very Fi, but also can see why I'm Ne subtype. Is that related to introverted and extroverted functions? I don't feel a big difference between me and Fi-INFjs except they come across as more serious and consistent in their feeling, like they're giving off their tones a lot more, and less mentally creative or eye to the sky like myself, whatever you want to call it. When I see certain people of the other subtype sometimes I'm jealous of their overly focused Fi, because Fi feels so down-to-earth and meaningful to me, where as Ne can come across as sort of disconnected, so it's a back and forth struggle between who I am and what I feel at the core, or where I am and where I want to be. Darn, it's kinda hard to explain so I guess the best way to look at it witnessing more examples of the two subtypes, I think I'm going to do that again in a bit: http://gallery.socionix.com

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poli View Post
    On the outside people say I seem pretty Ne. On the inside I feel very Fi, but also can see why I'm Ne subtype. Is that related to introverted and extroverted functions? I don't feel a big difference between me and Fi-INFjs except they come across as more serious and consistent in their feeling, like they're giving off their tones a lot more, and less mentally creative or eye to the sky like myself, whatever you want to call it. When I see certain people of the other subtype sometimes I'm jealous of their overly focused Fi, because Fi feels so down-to-earth and meaningful to me, where as Ne can come across as sort of disconnected, so it's a back and forth struggle between who I am and what I feel at the core, or where I am and where I want to be. Darn, it's kinda hard to explain so I guess the best way to look at it witnessing more examples of the two subtypes, I think I'm going to do that again in a bit: http://gallery.socionix.com
    This isn't too farfetched, really. I find that Pe subtypes in general tend to come off as more non-sequiter and Ji as more diplomatic. Compare kassie vs Uniden, Allie vs. Bardia, me vs Traveler, etc.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    Not a big fan of subtypes, but it seems like the more similar I am to another LII (say same somatotype) the better I'll get along with them. But there are still the "negative" aspects of the relationship, like competitiveness.

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    Default Identical Subtype Relations

    How would two people of the same type and subtype react to each other? Similarly, how might this be different between two people of the same type but opposing subtype? Would it basically be the same?

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    For me, with Fe-IEIs communication is generally fun and light-hearted, we don't run out of topics to talk about, we're interested in the same things and we hardly ever have misunderstandings... but with Ni-IEIs, there's an incredible feeling of mutual understanding that develops so quickly. With one Ni-IEI friend, after knowing each other for two weeks, we would say exactly what the other person was thinking, which I don't even have with my LSI friend who I've known for 10 years. It's amazing when you're a weird introverted NF, feeling like no one will ever completely understand and appreciate your quirks, then someone comes along and totally "gets" you immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Although bouts of shin-kicking will erupt occasionally I get on far better with real ILIs than I do with fake ones, even if I'm still SLE.

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    Astonishingly mutual and understanding. This is partly due to the fact that I only rarely ever meet other Delta irl, much less Fi-ENFps. I had an identical friend in college, probably E6 and sx/sp too. It was so fucking refreshing and energizing to be around somebody who actually agreed with what I said, who I didn't have to explain myself to. Everything between us was "oh yeah, I get that." Really need more of that in my life.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    I knew an Se-SEE in school and she was amazing! we always vandalized the school bathrooms, and we loved setting things on fire, and we loved any music loud and fast...

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    Default Super Identity: Same subtype=better relation?

    Do you think people of the same type and subtype are likely to get along better than people of different subtypes? If you have personal stories, those would be great to hear as well. Here's what Gulenko said on the matter:


    "It should be said about the impact of subtype on these relations. When overlapping subtypes of communication is much more pleasant and easy. If no match subtypes partners look at each other with some suspicion. It seems that this man is too zealous, goes too far. Identical relations are of great educational value, as they allow to look at myself objectively evaluate their advantages and disadvantages."

    Agree? Disagree?

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    agree

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    any sort of mismatch in rational/irrational is really grating in my experience.

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    Dunno, from my analysis of myself, I think i'd get along great with my identicals. The only thing that would be a problem is the POLR.

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    To me the distinction between identicals of same and different subtypes is somewhat equivalent to the distinction between mirror and identity relationships when subtypes aren't taken into account. Which one of these is 'better' per se really depends on the individuals and how well they get along in general. I imagine that same subtype identicals would on average be more understanding of each other's motivations and perspectives on life, while with different subtypes there's just that much more disparity between each other's focus and priority.

    For example, I'll take two ENFp friends of mine, Ne and Fi subs respectively. The Ne sub was my best friend all through high school, but I couldn't help but be annoyed by his innate self-distracting nature. Part of this could also just be him being 7w6, but I had always found it hard to get him to stay fixed in the topic I was trying to discuss. At points he would even interrupt himself just to say something that came to mind, only to then forget what he was talking about in the first place. Needless to say, this annoyed me greatly, because while I could sort of understand how these things in his head came to mind, he had no apparent control over how his mind would deal with such nuggets of thought.

    I feel as if I had a much greater mutual understanding with the Fi subtype. Our energy levels were roughly the same, our perspectives on life and the things within it were eerily and comfortingly similar, and despite our varying fields of interest (music vs history) we found it easy to communicate them to each other. My experience with him was much more limited than with the Ne sub, but I ultimately felt a stronger sense of kinship and like-mindedness with the Fi sub.

    Again to caveat, I'm sure that there are individuals of both subtypes (on this board, no less) that I will both get along with and not. The quote in the OP sums it up pretty well I think.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    Super-Super-super identicals are just kinda creepy. You tend to naturally avoid interacting with them, because there's a tendency to say exactly the same words at the same moment, given the same kind of stimuli.

    I'm not talking about identicals with a similar subtype, I'm referring to a different kind of cosmic alignment. I know another ENTj that looks like me, same heigth, similar voice, same humor, same intellectual interests, same kind of schools and type of work, hell we even used to be friends with the same people even without knowing each other. That's just...creeepy.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I prefer Ni-IEIs, when they're not being weirdoes... and I prefer Fe-IEIs, when they're not being airheads.

    Individual, non-socionics factors usually matter more to me than subtype, in this case. It's like how men on average have a slightly higher IQ than women, but the difference isn't large enough that you can really make any assumptions about the individual you're dealing with.

    I think Fe-IEIs win out though, by a smidgen. I've met a lot more unbearable Ni-IEI weirdoes than unbearable Fe-IEI airheads...also, it's easier to provide Ti to Fe-IEIs (answering their endless questions) than Se to Ni-IEIs (punching them in the face until they stop being weird).

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    It's not about like/dislike, it's about the actual relation, which I will agree with same-sub.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    It's not about like/dislike, it's about the actual relation
    How well you get along with someone/quality of the relationship is pretty directly correlated to like/dislike, for me and (being presumptious here) probably the majority of people.

    Unless you're talking about how well you relate to someone (i.e. understand/empathise), that's obviously going to be same subtype > different, although the OP clearly states that they don't mean that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    It's weird but to be honest, if I met someone exactly like me I'm not sure I'd like them. I'd respect them, and work well with them or whatever, but I get the feeling we wouldn't really say that much to each other.
    Moonlight will fall
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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    It's weird but to be honest, if I met someone exactly like me I'm not sure I'd like them. I'd respect them, and work well with them or whatever, but I get the feeling we wouldn't really say that much to each other.
    That's what happened to me.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Seeing how Socionics is a relation-first typology, it makes sense that you like and get along with your subtype identical. I'm not sure if I'd call many of my identicals 'much like me,' just more that we speak a similar language and have a smoother thought process between ourselves (I think this is mostly true between all members of a quadra.) Information elements are pretty general thought processes ie. Introverted Feeling: what does this general term really mean in essence and in the larger scheme of people? There are a variety of individuals, outlooks, skills and knowledge to be found within the same type.

    Quote Originally Posted by octo View Post
    How well you get along with someone/quality of the relationship is pretty directly correlated to like/dislike, for me and (being presumptious here) probably the majority of people.
    For me the two are a bit different, ie. you don't always know how well you'll get along with someone you like (I've come to learn that resonance is something more ambitious than liking), yet I think Socionics yields the idea that a) you get along better, so b) you tend to like the person more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    It's weird but to be honest, if I met someone exactly like me I'm not sure I'd like them. I'd respect them, and work well with them or whatever, but I get the feeling we wouldn't really say that much to each other.
    • Although I was the first pick to replace their band's fired bassist, two friends passed me over in favor of someone else because they reckoned their singer and were I too similar to work together without constantly stepping on one another's toes.
    • A female friend used to date a certain artist/musician whose work I admired, and when I asked her what he was like in person she laughed, "Oh, you'd hate each other, you're both just alike."


    I haven't identified more than a handful of identicals among my real-life associates so it would be premature to declare any intelligible patterns there concerning subtype in relation to the OP. Among supposed super-identicals on the forum there are still differences in interests, attitudes, experiences, sex, goals/desires, etc. that can reduce consistency in communications. The same can be said of differences explicable through enneatype and instinct stacking, or other means. So although the OP seems sensible in itself, in practice and at present I observe too many exceptions within my meager sample base to lend it assent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekpyrosos View Post
    • Although I was the first pick to replace their band's fired bassist, two friends passed me over in favor of someone else because they reckoned their singer and were I too similar to work together without constantly stepping on one another's toes.
    • A female friend used to date a certain artist/musician whose work I admired, and when I asked her what he was like in person she laughed, "Oh, you'd hate each other, you're both just alike."


    I haven't identified more than a handful of identicals among my real-life associates so it would be premature to declare any intelligible patterns there concerning subtype in relation to the OP. Among supposed super-identicals on the forum there are still differences in interests, attitudes, experiences, sex, goals/desires, etc. that can reduce consistency in communications. The same can be said of differences explicable through enneatype and instinct stacking, or other means. So although the OP seems sensible in itself, in practice and at present I observe too many exceptions within my meager sample base to lend it assent.
    what does it tell about my type that people whic talk like you annoy me

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewBorn STAR View Post
    what does it tell about my type that people whic talk like you annoy me
    It says your type's English is below the collegiate level, it's -intolerant, and it demonstrates a preference to provoke rather than discourse or inform.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Super-Super-super identicals are just kinda creepy. You tend to naturally avoid interacting with them, because there's a tendency to say exactly the same words at the same moment, given the same kind of stimuli.
    I have made a similar experience with my best friend. Sure, that's not just because we're probably identicals, but also because we share a lot of our past experiences when we were at school together, but we sometimes said exactly the same thing. That might as well be a stupid insider joke which is 8 years old. Given the fact that we both had to remember it and made the connection to the current situation, this is quite an accomplishment. It just emphasizes the similar way of thinking. However, we are rather different in our personal interests and also appearance. Otherwise, it would really be tough as we are both strong individiualists.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
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    I like Newborn STAR a lot. I like his method of getting under people's skin. It's not offensive to me personally. Everybody bites, and his biting is alright with me.

    I'm glad I have a new dual on the forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    It's weird but to be honest, if I met someone exactly like me I'm not sure I'd like them. I'd respect them, and work well with them or whatever, but I get the feeling we wouldn't really say that much to each other.
    ditto...
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I like Newborn STAR a lot. I like his method of getting under people's skin. It's not offensive to me personally. Everybody bites, and his biting is alright with me.

    I'm glad I have a new dual on the forum.
    He's not SLE.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I'm in a relationship right now with an IEI who I strongly believe to be Ni-subtype while I'm Fe-IEI, and I basically feel around him much of the time like what Galen stated of Ne-IEEs in regard to himself. It works pretty well for us for multiple reasons, but there are times I wish he'd stop being so cerebral for five minutes to come frolic with me. We've both commented that it does feel more mirrorish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gooey View Post
    Do you think people of the same type and subtype are likely to get along better than people of different subtypes? If you have personal stories, those would be great to hear as well. Here's what Gulenko said on the matter:

    "It should be said about the impact of subtype on these relations. When overlapping subtypes of communication is much more pleasant and easy. If no match subtypes partners look at each other with some suspicion. It seems that this man is too zealous, goes too far. Identical relations are of great educational value, as they allow to look at myself objectively evaluate their advantages and disadvantages."
    this is very interesting. first time i have read about identicals feeling suspicious of each other.

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    suedehead's Avatar
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    I've never gotten to know any beyond a superficial impression. In general they're either sort of normal and well-rounded, weird and floating around aimlessly, or crazy/pushy.
    Last edited by suedehead; 07-23-2014 at 11:48 PM.

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    I've always gotten along decently with Fe-IEIs, but overall they tend to feel a bit too emotionally involved and sometimes airy in this weird way. that being said, it's easier to retain diplomatic accord with them than with Ni-IEIs, who I can more easily and implicitly connect with, but sometimes feel offset by, due to psychic proximity. in ways Ni-EIEs can be easier to deal with than Fe-IEIs, despite our differing rhythms. it's like they know how to manage the implicit better, Fe-IEIs are better for keeping things emotively keeled, so I agree about the mirror/identical thing.
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