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Thread: Are you aware of your demonstrative function? Can you give examples of how you use it?

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    Default Are you aware of your demonstrative function? Can you give examples of how you use it?

    I debated whether to direct this at particular types and decided to direct the question to anybody and everybody instead.

    I'm becoming interested in the demonstrative function. It's a very strong function, as strong as your base function, but you don't verbalize it as much because it's in the vital ring.

    My own Ti function manifests itself whenever I read about economics and I pick and choose which authors make the most sense to me. I have an awareness of poorly defined words and concepts. If the writing 'feels' wrong to me, then I drop that particular author. I don't actually verbalize what's wrong with their writing, I just 'feel' that something is wrong, and it's something that I pick up on rather quickly. But I don't, for instance, know the names of all the logical fallacies or something, and I can't always explain what's wrong with it.

    I'm trying to remember how the IEEs I've known have manifested their Fe. I seem to recall that they were aware of how a group was feeling about something, but they wouldn't necessarily express that same feeling themselves. They knew about group dynamics, the group mood, and how it was changing, for instance, if the group was at first pessimistic about something and then they became optimistic about it. IEEs out there, does that sound right to you?

    What about everyone else, can you describe your demonstrative function? I would like to learn more about this function, as it is a very strong function and is probably not talked about often enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nico1e View Post
    I debated whether to direct this at particular types and decided to direct the question to anybody and everybody instead.

    I'm becoming interested in the demonstrative function. It's a very strong function, as strong as your base function, but you don't verbalize it as much because it's in the vital ring.

    My own Ti function manifests itself whenever I read about economics and I pick and choose which authors make the most sense to me. I have an awareness of poorly defined words and concepts. If the writing 'feels' wrong to me, then I drop that particular author. I don't actually verbalize what's wrong with their writing, I just 'feel' that something is wrong, and it's something that I pick up on rather quickly. But I don't, for instance, know the names of all the logical fallacies or something, and I can't always explain what's wrong with it.

    I'm trying to remember how the IEEs I've known have manifested their Fe. I seem to recall that they were aware of how a group was feeling about something, but they wouldn't necessarily express that same feeling themselves. They knew about group dynamics, the group mood, and how it was changing, for instance, if the group was at first pessimistic about something and then they became optimistic about it. IEEs out there, does that sound right to you?

    What about everyone else, can you describe your demonstrative function? I would like to learn more about this function, as it is a very strong function and is probably not talked about often enough.
    Ok, I am going to try this again. (I'd lost what I had just written.)
    Supposedly, the demonstrative's information activates the base's information. I can't recall which Russian site/writer I got this from, so feel free to take it with a grain of salt.

    The demonstrative information is brought into the mind and processed subconsciously. The demonstrative is expressed by the person, though the person may not be aware of it's influence. Outsiders may perceive the influence of the information, and may mistype the person based on that expression, thinking it as an ego/conscious process.

    In the case of NeFi, there's a few ways of looking at it.
    A person puts out emotive signals, whether consciously or unconsciously. The NeFi subconsciously picks up on the emotive signals that another person puts out. This causes the NeFi to scan the external (or person's internal) environment, trying to find what may have triggered the emotive signals that were shown. The NeFi is basically looking for the relationship between the emotive signal and X. What is X? If the NeFi finds out what X is, then they'll have a clue as to the person's Fi.

    The NeFi may also pick up on these cues, leading the NeFi to conclusions, but without concrete examples of what lead to that conclusion. Why do you think this person is sad? I don't know....followed by some after-the-fact justifications of what might have led the NeFi to that conclusion. The NeFi is most likely listing possible cues that might have influenced their info processing.

    Another way that it can show up in an NeFi is that they'll also subconsciously note their own reactions to something...say, a piece of information or a story that was given them. The reaction is automatic, based on numerous things of their past experiences and perceptions/beliefs. But that reaction is likely to get remembered (thanks to their Fi), and remembering the reaction they had helps them to remember the information given. For a personal example, someone brings up a topic. I'll remember feeling confused about something about that topic. I pay attention to that confused feeling, placing it in it's sequence of what event was happening when I felt that confusion. This reminds me of what I was doing at the time of feeling that confusion. Which reminds me of what I read that had confused me. Which then triggers various thoughts I may have had at that moment. And these thoughts I can then bring up during the conversation. Many times, however, I'll remember being confused about it so often that I further confuse myself, being unable to remember precisely what I had read, only remembering that I'm always confused on that topic, lol. Further attempts of mine to clarify it for myself may lead to further confusion unless those new attempts trigger a new reaction..such as an "aha" moment. In which case I may remember being confused about the topic, but then the "aha" moment, and will proceed from the "aha" moment.

    An NeFi is also likely to send out emotive signals of their own, without being aware that they are sending them out. This usually happens during the scanning process..the what-if processing, etc. The NeFi will appear animated as they go through the Ne process, then appear subdued again as they go through the Fi processing. Often being accused of sending mixed signals. And not being aware of which signals got sent out...and thus a difficulty clarifying to the perceiver what the signal is likely in relation to. (This can be a leading cause of miscommunications and ill-feelings between NeFi and NiFe.)

    If an NeFi is around people who are sending alot of emotive signals out, this can push the Ne of the NeFi into hyperactive drive....overstimulating the NeFi, and they may not even be aware of why they are feeling overstimulated. NeFi enjoy being around people....and may suddenly be confused as to why they want to be alone now. The claim is that NeFi, as 'extroverts', get re-charged by being around people, right? And yet NeFi are also said to be the shyest of extroverts. This is one possible reason for their shyness, and why they would prefer small groups.
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    I just thought of an ENFp I know, sometimes I will try to make her laugh, but what I say is not taken as a joke by her cause it's anti Fi. I just realise after I've said it! Anyhow she stays quiet and doesn't defend her Fi as not to disturb the emoptional atmosphere, which would disturb our established bond.

    (Possible recent example). We were at the mall and I met her (ENFp) back in the changing room, I noticed it was unattended, and I joked "Haha It would be so easy to shoplift here wouldn't it!?" I expected her to agree and laugh, but she just went all serious and pretended she did not hear what I said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nico1e View Post
    I debated whether to direct this at particular types and decided to direct the question to anybody and everybody instead.

    I'm becoming interested in the demonstrative function. It's a very strong function, as strong as your base function, but you don't verbalize it as much because it's in the vital ring.

    My own Ti function manifests itself whenever I read about economics and I pick and choose which authors make the most sense to me. I have an awareness of poorly defined words and concepts. If the writing 'feels' wrong to me, then I drop that particular author. I don't actually verbalize what's wrong with their writing, I just 'feel' that something is wrong, and it's something that I pick up on rather quickly. But I don't, for instance, know the names of all the logical fallacies or something, and I can't always explain what's wrong with it.

    I'm trying to remember how the IEEs I've known have manifested their Fe. I seem to recall that they were aware of how a group was feeling about something, but they wouldn't necessarily express that same feeling themselves. They knew about group dynamics, the group mood, and how it was changing, for instance, if the group was at first pessimistic about something and then they became optimistic about it. IEEs out there, does that sound right to you?

    What about everyone else, can you describe your demonstrative function? I would like to learn more about this function, as it is a very strong function and is probably not talked about often enough.
    Ok, I am going to try this again. (I'd lost what I had just written.)
    Supposedly, the demonstrative's information activates the base's information. I can't recall which Russian site/writer I got this from, so feel free to take it with a grain of salt.

    The demonstrative information is brought into the mind and processed subconsciously. The demonstrative is expressed by the person, though the person may not be aware of it's influence. Outsiders may perceive the influence of the information, and may mistype the person based on that expression, thinking it as an ego/conscious process.

    In the case of NeFi, there's a few ways of looking at it.
    A person puts out emotive signals, whether consciously or unconsciously. The NeFi subconsciously picks up on the emotive signals that another person puts out. This causes the NeFi to scan the external (or person's internal) environment, trying to find what may have triggered the emotive signals that were shown. The NeFi is basically looking for the relationship between the emotive signal and X. What is X? If the NeFi finds out what X is, then they'll have a clue as to the person's Fi.

    The NeFi may also pick up on these cues, leading the NeFi to conclusions, but without concrete examples of what lead to that conclusion. Why do you think this person is sad? I don't know....followed by some after-the-fact justifications of what might have led the NeFi to that conclusion. The NeFi is most likely listing possible cues that might have influenced their info processing.

    Another way that it can show up in an NeFi is that they'll also subconsciously note their own reactions to something...say, a piece of information or a story that was given them. The reaction is automatic, based on numerous things of their past experiences and perceptions/beliefs. But that reaction is likely to get remembered (thanks to their Fi), and remembering the reaction they had helps them to remember the information given. For a personal example, someone brings up a topic. I'll remember feeling confused about something about that topic. I pay attention to that confused feeling, placing it in it's sequence of what event was happening when I felt that confusion. This reminds me of what I was doing at the time of feeling that confusion. Which reminds me of what I read that had confused me. Which then triggers various thoughts I may have had at that moment. And these thoughts I can then bring up during the conversation. Many times, however, I'll remember being confused about it so often that I further confuse myself, being unable to remember precisely what I had read, only remembering that I'm always confused on that topic, lol. Further attempts of mine to clarify it for myself may lead to further confusion unless those new attempts trigger a new reaction..such as an "aha" moment. In which case I may remember being confused about the topic, but then the "aha" moment, and will proceed from the "aha" moment.

    An NeFi is also likely to send out emotive signals of their own, without being aware that they are sending them out. This usually happens during the scanning process..the what-if processing, etc. The NeFi will appear animated as they go through the Ne process, then appear subdued again as they go through the Fi processing. Often being accused of sending mixed signals. And not being aware of which signals got sent out...and thus a difficulty clarifying to the perceiver what the signal is likely in relation to. (This can be a leading cause of miscommunications and ill-feelings between NeFi and NiFe.)

    If an NeFi is around people who are sending alot of emotive signals out, this can push the Ne of the NeFi into hyperactive drive....overstimulating the NeFi, and they may not even be aware of why they are feeling overstimulated. NeFi enjoy being around people....and may suddenly be confused as to why they want to be alone now. The claim is that NeFi, as 'extroverts', get re-charged by being around people, right? And yet NeFi are also said to be the shyest of extroverts. This is one possible reason for their shyness, and why they would prefer small groups.
    This post is amazingly good to read

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    For me, what happens is that time becomes a flashback forward or what will happen in the future with a certain event; when a spark of something gathered from the external environment is realized in my consciousness, some of these events start to produce feelings within me tying internal intuition to internal feelings. I will go into a vision, let's say one I have at the bank of a river, this vision will produce a feeling, these feelings and visions will lock me in in an internal world where I'm not speaking, I'm not moving, I'm just quietly reflecting within myself, this event; otherwise allows me to make proximation of how long something will take because I will play the event in my head; let's say I need to go to the store from my home and need to be back by a certain time, I will stand there envision a route and walk there, with time, watching, internally, how much time passes by as I'm doing this activity in my head and then I will know, for reality what I can do, how I can utilize my time, how to approximate time (this is an unfolding of a process over time). I use it to be patient and reflect, gives me something to do, that is physically inactive, because it's not object driven or external, it's driven inside my mind.

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    Unless we define Fe as "groupfeel" or "smiling" or something, I never see myself utilizing any Fe modes of thought at all. Seeing people express those sorts of sentiments just makes me feel really pressured to create some sort of shallow Fe facsimile, and I can never tell (or care) if I'm doing it right. It tends to make me feel objectified, like the person is trying to somehow define me.

    Quote Originally Posted by walker31 View Post
    I just thought of an ENFp I know, sometimes I will try to make her laugh, but what I say is not taken as a joke by her cause it's anti Fi. I just realise after I've said it! Anyhow she stays quiet and doesn't defend her Fi as not to disturb the emoptional atmosphere, which would disturb our established bond.
    Don't take this the wrong way, but "I'm just trying to make you laugh" tends to come off as manipulative for Fi people when they're not in the mood for it. My ISFp mom is prone to doing things like that, and it tends to backfire on her for that reason. I know that she does it with good intentions, wants to help me out by futzing with my internal state and all that.
    Last edited by Galen; 08-23-2011 at 08:40 AM.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    Ni is like a haze floating around in my head that I can tap into, often unwillingly. I think for the most part it's a tool to my Fi, like I'll delve into a memory of a positive or negative moment I've had with someone and reflect on how that affects me in the present.
    When I was younger I often created alternative worlds in my mind that were my way of cooping with the state of reality that at times were too difficult to just deal with as is. Presently, I somewhat do this but use my imagination to play out scenarios that could benefit my reality, like pondering on how my life could be if I did such and such and what I'd have to do to get there.

    The unwilling aspect comes from feelings of inertness compiled with self-loathing over the inertness, when really I'd rather be contributing more to life and bettering myself but I feel too timid to motivate myself and get confused as to what I'm supposed to be doing *to* become a more industrious and proactive person. So Ni is like a road block in this sense
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    Demonstrative functions don't really exist-are used. They're only a wrongly interpreted manifestation of one's own creative function plus reinin dichotomies and/or focal/diffuse.
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    I never feel like I used the 'demonstrative function,' only had some typical thoughts that could be passed off as it unknowingly. I WISH I could though, seems really cool, maybe to the point of making my type only the second coolest NF, but I feel pretty comfortable with , so

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    Are you aware of your demonstrative function? Can you give examples of how you use it?
    no, not really

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nico1e View Post
    I debated whether to direct this at particular types and decided to direct the question to anybody and everybody instead.

    I'm becoming interested in the demonstrative function. It's a very strong function, as strong as your base function, but you don't verbalize it as much because it's in the vital ring.

    My own Ti function manifests itself whenever I read about economics and I pick and choose which authors make the most sense to me. I have an awareness of poorly defined words and concepts. If the writing 'feels' wrong to me, then I drop that particular author. I don't actually verbalize what's wrong with their writing, I just 'feel' that something is wrong, and it's something that I pick up on rather quickly. But I don't, for instance, know the names of all the logical fallacies or something, and I can't always explain what's wrong with it.

    I'm trying to remember how the IEEs I've known have manifested their Fe. I seem to recall that they were aware of how a group was feeling about something, but they wouldn't necessarily express that same feeling themselves. They knew about group dynamics, the group mood, and how it was changing, for instance, if the group was at first pessimistic about something and then they became optimistic about it. IEEs out there, does that sound right to you?

    What about everyone else, can you describe your demonstrative function? I would like to learn more about this function, as it is a very strong function and is probably not talked about often enough.
    Yes, well spotted, the demonstrative is a remarkably important function. It often gives even the most ahem, ?dedicated? typologists error because they view the demonstrative and view it as the lead.

    They rarely realise the individual is using the demonstrative in both a negative way but also in very thorough way. The individual really understands their demonstrative but they also don't like it very much unlike the lead.

    Note the especially great confusion when people are typing introverts due to demonstratives.

    Yes, a lot of people think I'm Ti because I can quickly 'sense' an ambiguity in logic somewhere and nail it down when I can be bothered. I don't do it often, only when backed into a corner or feel it is worth doing.

    Typical usage:

    'Look here is a logical error with how you've thought about it, you need to go away and think about this and then come back again later.'

    Without any real attempt to be bothered to correct the other individual unless they push for it.

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    It's really good to get an ENFp perspective Galen. You're right It is with good intentons. In general I'm awkward and dry around anyone I'm not comfortable with. I think my main utilization of Fe is to strengthen my bond with someone. If a Fe creative is cracking jokes around you it must mean something good!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Analyst Trevor View Post
    Are you aware of your demonstrative function? Can you give examples of how you use it?
    no, not really
    And what might be the foreseeable long-term consequences that would result from your describing your demonstrative function?

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    eludes me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nico1e View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Analyst Trevor View Post
    no, not really
    And what might be the foreseeable long-term consequences that would result from your describing your demonstrative function?

    I'm not sure if you had intended this question the way I read it, but if it was then I'm impressed AND smiling at the wit. Ok, I'm smiling regardless, hehehe.
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    Unless we define Fe as "groupfeel" or "smiling" or something, I never see myself utilizing any Fe modes of thought at all. Seeing people express those sorts of sentiments just makes me feel really pressured to create some sort of shallow Fe facsimile, and I can never tell (or care) if I'm doing it right. It tends to make me feel objectified, like the person is trying to somehow define me.
    *sigh*

    Fe isn't more shallow than Fi. And nobody is trying to change who you are, but when you objectively come across as a moody depressed gay man all the time- then other people are gonna try to cheer you up. I agree that Fe people fall into the definition trap more, though. (See above =p) It might hurt your feelings but sometimes it's like you don't get how 'we're all in this together', either. Which is a personal criticism I have of Fi types. =p

    Don't take this the wrong way, but "I'm just trying to make you laugh" tends to come off as manipulative for Fi people when they're not in the mood for it.
    Wanting to see your friends happy is manipulative? =/ That just doesn't make sense! Well ummm... 'You can feel bad if it makes you feel better.' ???? I guess that song is very Fe-ish though so you wouldn't like it.

    My ISFp mom is prone to doing things like that, and it tends to backfire on her for that reason.
    I think you're just finding excuses on pushing people away because connecting with people is honestly really scary. Why let us in when you think we'll just hurt you and stomp all over you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by poli View Post
    I never feel like I used the 'demonstrative function,' only had some typical thoughts that could be passed off as it unknowingly. I WISH I could though, seems really cool, maybe to the point of making my type only the second coolest NF, but I feel pretty comfortable with , so
    All that I caught was something about something somewhere being the second coolest something. I will censor my response for the sake of talking politely in a forum. Don't say that, unless you want to watch me flipping out and getting all upset.

    This is all I have to go on, from Wikisocion:
    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...LII_and_EII.29

    as a demonstrative (8th) function (LII and EII)
    The individual is quite adept at following discussions on the developments of present trends into the future and at contributing to them on occasion if he feels so inclined, but he does not take that as seriously compared to investigating possibilities in the areas he is interested in at present. He usually dismisses supernatural claims as being silly, wishful thinking, unless they happen to be related to the very specific religion he feels inclined to believe in and which he may be inclined to make part of his leisure activities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nico1e View Post

    And what might be the foreseeable long-term consequences that would result from your describing your demonstrative function?

    I'm not sure if you had intended this question the way I read it, but if it was then I'm impressed AND smiling at the wit. Ok, I'm smiling regardless, hehehe.
    Shhh. I was trying to secretly trick him into using his Ni demonstrative function without knowing it, but the trick seems to have failed.

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    I think due to the fact that the demonstrative function is unconscious, we can say that we are not aware of our demonstrative function vs our conscious functions. However, as one of the primary drives in our psyche, it is constantly reacting to stimulus and processing information which you become aware of thru the conscious functions.

    It's used in a non-communicative action oriented fashion, which can be highly detailed and finely tuned, but ultimately something we are not fully conscious of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Demonstrative functions don't really exist-are used. They're only a wrongly interpreted manifestation of one's own creative function plus reinin dichotomies and/or focal/diffuse.
    I'm not sure what you mean. I thought that everybody needed to use all eight of the information elements, because all eight of them exist 'out there' in reality, and we have to see them and process them.

    Wrongly interpreted by whom?

    What is focal/diffuse? It isn't one of the Reinin dichotomies. I'm not sure where to look it up.

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    I disagree a bit on not verbalizing your demonstrative function. You verbalize it all right, and you demonstrate other people on how to use it. You attack other people with your ego function, that's why your supervisor isn't really a good person to teach you something new. Their ego is attacking your polr.

    Demonstrative function means just that, you demonstrate others on how to use it in a way that fixes their polr for them. So verbalizing would be a part of this. People aren't that big of pussies, I don't think.

    I could listen to Te advice from ESTp and ENTps all day, honestly. It never emotionally gets on my nerves... and that's what this is about anyway. Who pushes your buttons and who doesn't. In all the right and wrong ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Yes, well spotted, the demonstrative is a remarkably important function. It often gives even the most ahem, ?dedicated? typologists error because they view the demonstrative and view it as the lead.

    They rarely realise the individual is using the demonstrative in both a negative way but also in very thorough way. The individual really understands their demonstrative but they also don't like it very much unlike the lead.

    Note the especially great confusion when people are typing introverts due to demonstratives.

    Yes, a lot of people think I'm Ti because I can quickly 'sense' an ambiguity in logic somewhere and nail it down when I can be bothered. I don't do it often, only when backed into a corner or feel it is worth doing.

    Typical usage:

    'Look here is a logical error with how you've thought about it, you need to go away and think about this and then come back again later.'

    Without any real attempt to be bothered to correct the other individual unless they push for it.
    This becomes really important if you're trying to talk about how the Myers-Briggs people do that thing of setting up an introvert's functions differently than they set up an extrovert's. A SLI becomes something weird like TiSeNiFe, if I recall - I might have gotten that wrong - and the only reason that this way of doing things can survive, and can have any credibility and believability at all, is because you really can look at a person and see that their demonstrative function is, indeed, very strong, and is visible to people if they know what to look for, and so is their ignore function. There is some grain of truth in their twisted way of doing things when they order the functions that way, and so, that method continues to be used. If the MBTI introverts' function-orderings were totally, completely unconnected from reality and not observable at all, then that arrangement probably wouldn't continue to be used.

    It relates to the 'dichotomous typing' thing. You can say in a general way that somebody is an ST, NT, NF, or SF, but you don't know which particular functions are the strongest, because you're only beginning to figure that person out. Both Si and Se are strong, both Te and Ti are strong, in all ST types.

    ......
    and by the way, directed at everybody: thanks for answering this, your responses are really interesting to read!

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    I can also give a couple of examples of people at my workplace, an ESI and an LSI. I sometimes notice when they are using their Si demonstrative function.

    I was having a conversation with the ESI. He heard a song on the radio. He then told me that he remembered an incident from the past that had happened while he was listening to this song. He told me that he had been listening to this song, and his dad heard it and said, 'What the HELL are you listening to?' He didn't get to finish the story because we got interrupted. My impression of this: His Si function remembered exactly where and when something had happened, something having to do with the sound of music, and it connected to his Fi function, something about interacting with his father, and their relationship with each other. The demonstrative function connects back to the base function and supports it.

    I also sometimes hear LSI's talking about how they won't eat a particular food because it made them sick before, or something like that. I'm trying to remember an example of this conversation but it's been a while and I forget the details. It becomes sort of an 'official rule' that this particular food isn't allowed. Again, the demonstrative Si is strongly aware of past incidents of how their body responded to something they ate, and they connect it back to their base function, Ti, and make a 'rule' of some kind about that. I wish I could recall a conversation about this more clearly.

    I should go around pestering people and trying to get them to contribute to this thread. I really want to hear from all 16 types.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I could listen to Te advice from ESTp and ENTps all day, honestly. It never emotionally gets on my nerves... and that's what this is about anyway. Who pushes your buttons and who doesn't. In all the right and wrong ways.
    This is because all Te information is colored heavily with Ti and Se/Ne with ENTp's and ESTp's and taking priority over Te which makes it seem more interesting. A ENTp/ESTp who was being coached on what to say by a ESTj may sound pretty boring/annoying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nico1e View Post
    I should go around pestering people and trying to get them to contribute to this thread. I really want to hear from all 16 types.
    I'm LSE and I can get pretty aggressive if I feel that there's the need to. I'm usually calm (and prefer to be that way) when unprovoked but if picked on, I can get ugly. Sort of flare up momentarily with a show of intimidating Se, which switches off and returns to Si mode when it has served its purpose. At times, it's when my protective instincts gets invoked through what I see as an Fi transgression.

    Not sure if this is true of all LSEs or just me being enneagram 8.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Fe isn't more shallow than Fi. And nobody is trying to change who you are, but when you objectively come across as a moody depressed gay man all the time- then other people are gonna try to cheer you up. I agree that Fe people fall into the definition trap more, though. (See above =p) It might hurt your feelings but sometimes it's like you don't get how 'we're all in this together', either. Which is a personal criticism I have of Fi types. =p
    I'm not calling Fe 'shallow,' I'm calling my attempt at replicating it 'shallow.'


    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Wanting to see your friends happy is manipulative? =/ That just doesn't make sense! Well ummm... 'You can feel bad if it makes you feel better.' ???? I guess that song is very Fe-ish though so you wouldn't like it.

    I think you're just finding excuses on pushing people away because connecting with people is honestly really scary. Why let us in when you think we'll just hurt you and stomp all over you?
    Hi B&D you've missed the point yet again.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    Ni is like a haze floating around in my head that I can tap into, often unwillingly. I think for the most part it's a tool to my Fi, like I'll delve into a memory of a positive or negative moment I've had with someone and reflect on how that affects me in the present.
    seriously, this isn't . engaging in a behavior (falsely) associated with a function doesn't mean it's used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Unless we define Fe as "groupfeel" or "smiling" or something, I never see myself utilizing any Fe modes of thought at all. Seeing people express those sorts of sentiments just makes me feel really pressured to create some sort of shallow Fe facsimile, and I can never tell (or care) if I'm doing it right. It tends to make me feel objectified, like the person is trying to somehow define me.
    yeah, it's the same for me with Fi. if sensing the disposition a person has to another is Fi, sure my "strong unconscious" creeps in at odd moments; yet the fact that I objectify said thing, doesn't exactly point to Fi usage.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Demonstrative functions don't really exist-are used. They're only a wrongly interpreted manifestation of one's own creative function plus reinin dichotomies and/or focal/diffuse.
    agreed. without delving too much into theory, I still see valued functions working in feedback loops, complementary opposites creating a whole; the non-valued functions are contrary on a more basic level than, "IEIs suck at facts," and I think the main idea that keeps people from recognizing as much is this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nico1e View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean. I thought that everybody needed to use all eight of the information elements, because all eight of them exist 'out there' in reality, and we have to see them and process them.
    the only thing that says all eight functions exist "out there" is an abstract reduction heavily influenced by the valued functions of its creator. objectifying psychic processes by their output is an all-too-easy way to conflate the two, and overlooks the root of the issue. the fallacy lies in thinking a "how" can be defined by a "what." information doesn't come prepackaged.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by InkStrider View Post
    I'm LSE
    Do I know you and are you European ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nico1e View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Demonstrative functions don't really exist-are used. They're only a wrongly interpreted manifestation of one's own creative function plus reinin dichotomies and/or focal/diffuse.
    I'm not sure what you mean. I thought that everybody needed to use all eight of the information elements, because all eight of them exist 'out there' in reality, and we have to see them and process them.
    ? I think reality exists indipendently from information elements. Each one of them gives its own personal interpretation of what goes around us.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Some interpretations suck aaasss like socionics

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    My manifests when I get angry (not annoyed; that's ), but fortunately I don't do that often anymore. I also might use it to protect my .

    ESTj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InkStrider View Post
    I'm LSE and I can get pretty aggressive if I feel that there's the need to. I'm usually calm (and prefer to be that way) when unprovoked but if picked on, I can get ugly. Sort of flare up momentarily with a show of intimidating Se, which switches off and returns to Si mode when it has served its purpose.
    I've observed what your describing in ESFj.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walker31 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by InkStrider View Post
    I'm LSE and I can get pretty aggressive if I feel that there's the need to. I'm usually calm (and prefer to be that way) when unprovoked but if picked on, I can get ugly. Sort of flare up momentarily with a show of intimidating Se, which switches off and returns to Si mode when it has served its purpose.
    I've observed what your describing in ESFj.
    Ye he smells weird, like a rat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Unless we define Fe as "groupfeel" or "smiling" or something, I never see myself utilizing any Fe modes of thought at all. Seeing people express those sorts of sentiments just makes me feel really pressured to create some sort of shallow Fe facsimile, and I can never tell (or care) if I'm doing it right. It tends to make me feel objectified, like the person is trying to somehow define me.

    Quote Originally Posted by walker31 View Post
    I just thought of an ENFp I know, sometimes I will try to make her laugh, but what I say is not taken as a joke by her cause it's anti Fi. I just realise after I've said it! Anyhow she stays quiet and doesn't defend her Fi as not to disturb the emoptional atmosphere, which would disturb our established bond.
    Don't take this the wrong way, but "I'm just trying to make you laugh" tends to come off as manipulative for Fi people when they're not in the mood for it. My ISFp mom is prone to doing things like that, and it tends to backfire on her for that reason. I know that she does it with good intentions, wants to help me out by futzing with my internal state and all that.
    The way you describe sounds very one dimensional. It is a rational function and to me it sounds like you're describing shallowness which anyone could demonstrate.
    EIE tritype 5w4, 4w5, 9w1


    As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being.
    Carl Jung, "Memories, Dreams, Reflections", 1962

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    Quote Originally Posted by walker31 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by InkStrider View Post
    I'm LSE and I can get pretty aggressive if I feel that there's the need to. I'm usually calm (and prefer to be that way) when unprovoked but if picked on, I can get ugly. Sort of flare up momentarily with a show of intimidating Se, which switches off and returns to Si mode when it has served its purpose.
    I've observed what your describing in ESFj.
    Yes, I was describing Se demonstrative which both ESFj and ESTj share. I think it results in bursts of aggression which die down as quickly as it started. The ESFj usually makes up with Fe (being extra sweet and loving) and the ESTj by being apologetic and particularly caretaking with acts of service.

    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd
    Ye he smells weird, like a rat.
    Sorry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morcheeba
    The way you describe sounds very one dimensional. It is a rational function and to me it sounds like you're describing shallowness which anyone could demonstrate.
    I tend to use trivial comments/gestures to allude to what's actually going on, just to see who will get it. not a problem if someone needs to maintain a proud distance by casting it as shallow. 'emotion for the many, reason for the few' lol.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by InkStrider View Post
    Sorry?
    Just asked where you're from and do I know you. Hey I'm a plastic surgeon, not a doctor.

    Do you like peach ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Just asked where you're from and do I know you. Hey I'm a plastic surgeon, not a doctor.
    I don't know you anymore than I know the rest. I'll introduce myself in Delta.

    Do you like peach ?
    Not very much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InkStrider View Post
    I don't know you anymore than I know the rest. I'll introduce myself in Delta.
    Full name and licence number.

    Do you like peach ?
    Quote Originally Posted by InkStrider View Post
    Not very much.
    Ehh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by InkStrider View Post
    I don't know you anymore than I know the rest. I'll introduce myself in Delta.
    Full name and licence number.


    Quote Originally Posted by InkStrider View Post
    Not very much.
    Ehh
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...postcount=3598

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