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Thread: Conflictors

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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    Default Conflictors

    I was just watching the TV and found an scene (rare) of two conflictors arguing.

    I believe they are IEE-LSI. See from 7:30.

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    Wow I've never heard the breeders (or w/e you call them) side of the argument. It's actually really convincing.

    I originally thought Louie was EII when I first saw one of his documentaries, but IEE seems a better fit after watching much more of his material.
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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    I originally thought Louie was EII
    he is.

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Theroux reminds me of Kamajama. ISFp fits better, not EP imo. Not sure about the other guy, but I could guess ENFj from what little I've seen.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    I originally thought Louie was EII
    he is.
    I know , just trying to subtly insert seeds but I guess it's not worth misrepresentation. bleh
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    I tried posting something, but the library wi-fi is logging me out every couple of minutes for no reason at all, and so when I posted it, it told me I was logged out and everything I had written disappeared. God damn it.

    I was writing notes while watching the movie. I was getting angry and wanting to jump in and explain everything in a different way. I'm not going to rewrite the whole post over again. I'm really pissed off now.

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    Okay... I wrote that I could see his anxiety and hesitation. I wanted to agree with both sides of the argument, that a for-profit hunting ground is indeed a very effective way to protect an endangered species, if you raise them on purpose and protect them until it is time to kill them. But I agree with the guy who was asking the questions - I have no desire to kill to get a 'trophy.' You only want to kill something if you have to eat it for food. It isn't a 'trophy' if all it did was sit there letting you shoot it. I also had said that I myself would do the hunting if my IEE mate did not want to.

    I can imagine people going home and bragging to people about the challenge of killing this trophy animal, and it would all be a big lie.

    I kept wanting to jump into the argument and tell the guy 'don't say that, don't use that tone of voice,' and it was painful to watch them arguing when I couldn't go in there and explain it differently.

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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nico1e View Post
    Okay... I wrote that I could see his anxiety and hesitation. I wanted to agree with both sides of the argument, that a for-profit hunting ground is indeed a very effective way to protect an endangered species, if you raise them on purpose and protect them until it is time to kill them. But I agree with the guy who was asking the questions - I have no desire to kill to get a 'trophy.' You only want to kill something if you have to eat it for food. It isn't a 'trophy' if all it did was sit there letting you shoot it. I also had said that I myself would do the hunting if my IEE mate did not want to.
    It's important to understand what Socionics is all about. Socionics teaches, above anything else, that reality can be seen and judged from many perspectives and that such different perspectives are not neccesarily opposed to each other. No example of this is better than the conflicting relationship.

    Conflictors find it extremelly stressful to arguee with each other because what the conflictor criticizes in you is really wrong and you can't deny it. It's something you're aware is wrong in you but you usually neglect.

    In this case, his critic that the breeder is cruel is perfectly valid, because cruelty is the act of causing suffering deliberately and unnecesarily. The breeder perhaps developed over the years coping mechanisms to ignore that fact, but he is ultimately aware that killing animals that way makes him cruel and that's very, very painful to realize. A PoLR hit causes the entire psyche to collapse as this is clearly seen in the video.

    Now, the discussion revolves around ST and NF mentality. STs do not strive to change the world, they merely play with the existing rules and make the best out of them. They are pragmatic. His argument is right in that such animals could probably had disappeared already if it wasn't for commercial hunting. ST says "all means for the end".

    Sounds very plausible but it is ultimately wrong. A compromise is, ultimately, an act of complicity. NFs lead the society because they teach others that while ideals are impossible to archive, it is not a reason to stop trying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nico1e View Post
    I kept wanting to jump into the argument and tell the guy 'don't say that, don't use that tone of voice,' and it was painful to watch them arguing when I couldn't go in there and explain it differently.
    Well, I don't know if you seen the other parts. I'm more puzzled about the statement that "animals have no feelings". It's called objectivising or the tendency to disregard the sentiments and feelings of others and believe that only you have them. There is a slight line between that and being a criminal by the way; like the hunter, the criminal sees his victims as objects and negates the reality of their suffering.
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    You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life.
    - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    It's important to understand what Socionics is all about. Socionics teaches, above anything else, that reality can be seen and judged from many perspectives and that such different perspectives are not neccesarily opposed to each other. No example of this is better than the conflicting relationship.

    Conflictors find it extremelly stressful to arguee with each other because what the conflictor criticizes in you is really wrong and you can't deny it. It's something you're aware is wrong in you but you usually neglect.

    In this case, his critic that the breeder is cruel is perfectly valid, because cruelty is the act of causing suffering deliberately and unnecesarily. The breeder perhaps developed over the years coping mechanisms to ignore that fact, but he is ultimately aware that killing animals that way makes him cruel and that's very, very painful to realize. A PoLR hit causes the entire psyche to collapse as this is clearly seen in the video.

    Now, the discussion revolves around ST and NF mentality. STs do not strive to change the world, they merely play with the existing rules and make the best out of them. They are pragmatic. His argument is right in that such animals could probably had disappeared already if it wasn't for commercial hunting. ST says "all means for the end".

    Sounds very plausible but it is ultimately wrong. A compromise is, ultimately, an act of complicity. NFs lead the society because they teach others that while ideals are impossible to archive, it is not a reason to stop trying.

    Well, I don't know if you seen the other parts. I'm more puzzled about the statement that "animals have no feelings". It's called objectivising or the tendency to disregard the sentiments and feelings of others and believe that only you have them. There is a slight line between that and being a criminal by the way; like the hunter, the criminal sees his victims as objects and negates the reality of their suffering.
    I'm not sure if I saw all the other parts of the video, or other videos if there were any. I missed the part where he said that animals have no feelings. I think a person needs to accept that animals do have feelings, and yet, for various reasons, we are choosing to kill them anyway - I myself do not want to torture animals or cause them undue pain while they are being killed. If there is a way to kill them as painlessly as possible, I would do that. One thing that I like about their hunting grounds area is, it looked like the animals were roaming around free and they were comfortable while they were alive. To me that's much better than being stuck inside a factory farm.

    As for finding ways to protect an endangered species, I do want to see innovative ways of doing it - there might be other ways besides doing a for-profit hunting ground. I myself favor the hunting ground concept because I believe in eating meat, but that's a long story which I won't go into.

    I see what you mean about how the guy had a coping mechanism, telling himself not to look at things from the animal's point of view, not to ask any questions, not to think about it.

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