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Thread: Applied socionics: What can socionics be used for? Schools, persuasion, dating, etc

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    Default Applied socionics: What can socionics be used for? Schools, persuasion, dating, etc

    Assume that you can categorize people relatively well, perhaps not perfectly every time the first time, but well enough. You can change their type later on if you learn more about them or if someone else convinces you that you've typed them wrong.

    After that, what can you do now that you know their types? I'm thinking of a few things.

    1. Design a school curriculum that supports each of the types' strengths and weaknesses

    2. Socionics dating (already being done in Russia, but the English website doesn't seem very active)

    3. Design groups of people who must cooperate with each other (already being done in Russia)

    4. Communication, persuasion, diplomacy, conflict negotiations - how do you talk to someone or persuade somebody to do something if they think differently than you do and value different things? Which beliefs and customs result from socionic quadra values, and which ones don't necessarily? For instance, religious believers and atheists exist in all quadras. So that is something that doesn't necessarily depend on quadra values, but it can be connected with them. How can you change someone's mind about something? How can you persuade someone to do something, believe something, or value something? How can you use socionics knowledge to help you do this?

    5. Criminal profiling - guess who a serial killer is, for instance, based on the style of the crime and the letters they've written to police and the media.

    etc.

    I would like to see a teaching curriculum that teaches something to all eight functions without neglecting or disvaluing any of them. You wouldn't even necessarily have to know someone's type before putting them into the school. You could find out what their type is by teaching something to each of the functions and then getting feedback from the students about which classes they liked and disliked the most.

    How do the functions manifest in existing public school classes?

    (edit: I should probably call them 'information aspects' here instead of 'functions.' I'm talking about a school that teaches something that has to do with each information aspect.)

    math
    history
    language
    gym
    life skills (or whatever it's called depending on where you live)
    vocational school
    shop class (woodworking, etc)
    art
    music
    science
    other (I can't recall all of the classes that exist.)

    Also, what is the purpose of a school? Different answers to that question might depend on quadra values. I always felt as though school should teach me something that would be profitable in the real world, some kind of job skill, and I felt frustrated with school because I couldn't see how a lot of the classes had any connection to the job world. I felt the same way in college (I dropped out of college). But some people feel that the most important job of a school is to pass along society's values and traditions, for instance, or, to show students broad areas of knowledge that they might not look for on their own.

    I am mostly interested in the idea of socionic schools and also the idea of using socionics for persuasion and communication, but I'm also wondering about other applications and uses of socionics. We spend a lot of time struggling to correctly classify people, but after that, what do we do with that knowledge?
    Last edited by Nico1e; 08-12-2011 at 03:11 PM.

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    1. Design a school curriculum that supports each of the types' strengths and weaknesses
    edit : I am mostly interested in the idea of socionic schools
    Ive to admit I dont like categorizing at this point and these type of idea, ie somewhat linked to "certain type do certain matter", ect. Many ppl can have different expectative in life not necessarely connected to their "type". History is full of different type working on material theorically "not for their type".
    In addition, for personnal grow, its important to meet all possible "type" imo.
    At all this is imo this group of idea which lead to finally understand the alpha beta gamma delta the same way as in "Brave New World".

    But if socionic is accepted as a major standard way of thinking, this type of idea will inevitably grow.
    Your idea is typically good, but there is many way from this to enter into a system wich suck. A better idea imo is to use your idea not generally but into specialized/work oriented/particular company oriented school, like the school that 3 web company have created in france.
    The idea is that you are formed for the work on 3 company who have the same need, and you can enter this school any time (18, 30 , 40 yo), ie not forced by obligatory education. Here implementing your idea can be really interressant.

    2. Socionics dating (already being done in Russia, but the English website doesn't seem very active)
    Relationship theory are more usefull, even if it describe only what happen in the reality (ok, reality is more malleable than the theory), ie I dont see many possible application here. Socionic dating is agood idea, but I dont find this is the main application possible. Its more a "fashion" stuff. Some addition in Couple healing practice/theory can derivate too from this idea.
    If socionic was more know, there will be many way to generate cash in this area

    3. Design groups of people who must cooperate with each other (already being done in Russia)


    4. Communication, persuasion, diplomacy, conflict negotiations - how do you talk to someone or persuade somebody to do something if they think differently than you do and value different things? Which beliefs and customs result from socionic quadra values, and which ones don't necessarily? For instance, religious believers and atheists exist in all quadras. So that is something that doesn't necessarily depend on quadra values, but it can be connected with them. How can you change someone's mind about something? How can you persuade someone to do something, believe something, or value something? How can you use socionics knowledge to help you do this?
    Yes worth trying good idea especially 4 (but why you want to change other thinking ? You are in the irak war at this moment ?)



    Other application Ive see :
    they are many application into psychology, for example defining new criteria for psy healing. Current psychology, psychanalyse and psychatry could integrate some part of socionic theory. We can see socionic for example as a big help and solid base for the DSM, or another way to describe what Freud have seen.

    Other possibility is use on recruitement, group project, administration, company world, ect... this is evident , and some other tool are already used (big five, mbti , crystal ball ... A friend for ex have build a recruitement website like monster based on some mbti criteria), dont need to develop this, just warn that this will inevitably lead to some shit.

    Historically the theory of quadra progression can give some light or perhaps new understanding.

    The quadra progression : perhaps its possible to adapt the crux characteristics of this progression to more than human history.
    Perhaps its a natural evolution of many things outside "type". I see for example try of application into marketing : idealy a product, from birth to continuity and evolution need perhaps to have this style of progression as lifecycle.
    Ex a product will have more characteristic from 1th quadra at the beginning, more 2th after, ect. This can perhaps lead to endless renewal of a product, and avoid to stop on certain phase (many company have a dirty habit to stay blocked on the perfectionnist phase imo). You see ?

    Im dj and ive had the idea too that create a long mix wich follow this quadra progression... Many stuff are possible with this theory
    Last edited by noid; 08-12-2011 at 04:36 PM.
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    I have thought about this before and I came to the conclusion that types do what they like to do. I embraced Socionics because most of the people I know have the same job as their Socionics type "predicts": for instance, LSI-Inspector, SLI-Crafstman, ILE-Scientist, LIE-Entrepeneur, etc, which I find rather funny and surprising.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nico1e View Post

    1. Design a school curriculum that supports each of the types' strengths and weaknesses
    Most Si/Ne people go for Science/Arts, whereas most Se/Ni people go for Business/Law, IMO.

    3. Design groups of people who must cooperate with each other (already being done in Russia)
    Yeah, missions involving space travel should bear in mind the Socionics types of the astronauts.

    4. Communication, persuasion, diplomacy, conflict negotiations - how do you talk to someone or persuade somebody to do something if they think differently than you do and value different things? Which beliefs and customs result from socionic quadra values, and which ones don't necessarily? For instance, religious believers and atheists exist in all quadras. So that is something that doesn't necessarily depend on quadra values, but it can be connected with them. How can you change someone's mind about something? How can you persuade someone to do something, believe something, or value something? How can you use socionics knowledge to help you do this?
    To change the mind of a serious person:
    "Mr x says so, you'd better believe it".

    To change the mind of a merry person:
    Bring a couple of beers.


    How do the functions manifest in existing public school classes?
    ILE: annoying smart ass
    LII, ILI, LIE: discrete smart ass

    Also, what is the purpose of a school?
    Spend public resources to (unsuccessfully) entice others to become an ILE.

    We spend a lot of time struggling to correctly classify people, but after that, what do we do with that knowledge?
    I refrain from talking about Star Wars to gammas, which helps me avoid uncomfortable silences.
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    Spend public resources to (unsuccessfully) entice others to become an ILE.
    haha
    "The final delusion is the belief that one has lost all delusion."

    -- Maurice Chapelain

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    I'll start answering this now but I might have to finish it later, because I have to be someplace at 1:00.

    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    1. Design a school curriculum that supports each of the types' strengths and weaknesses
    edit : I am mostly interested in the idea of socionic schools
    Ive to admit I dont like categorizing at this point and these type of idea, ie somewhat linked to "certain type do certain matter", ect. Many ppl can have different expectative in life not necessarely connected to their "type". History is full of different type working on material theorically "not for their type".
    In addition, for personnal grow, its important to meet all possible "type" imo.
    At all this is imo this group of idea which lead to finally understand the alpha beta gamma delta the same way as in "Brave New World".
    Yes, and actually, I was being sloppy. I agree with you that people are able to go into fields of study or jobs that don't seem to fit their type, like, intuitives who are weightlifters, and that kind of thing. And I actually haven't read Brave New World but I vaguely know what it's about. Were people forced to work in particular jobs, or something? I definitely don't want to do anything like that.

    I think people use all of their functions, not just their first two functions, and that's one reason why it can seem like people are doing things that are 'not for their type.' For instance, I know that I really enjoy reading a lot of books written by ILI types, but supposedly, the Ni function is one of my weak functions, so someone might think I wouldn't like to read those books, but I do. And there are a lot of other reasons why people can do things that are supposedly not for their type.

    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    But if socionic is accepted as a major standard way of thinking, this type of idea will inevitably grow.
    Your idea is typically good, but there is many way from this to enter into a system wich suck. A better idea imo is to use your idea not generally but into specialized/work oriented/particular company oriented school, like the school that 3 web company have created in france.
    The idea is that you are formed for the work on 3 company who have the same need, and you can enter this school any time (18, 30 , 40 yo), ie not forced by obligatory education. Here implementing your idea can be really interressant.
    Exactly. I hate public schools anyway and I don't want to fight the battle of trying to change them. I'm interested in schools that anyone can go into. So yeah, it would be a school for adults too, or a school designed to train people to work for particular companies. (That sounds like what you meant?)

    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    Relationship theory are more usefull, even if it describe only what happen in the reality (ok, reality is more malleable than the theory), ie I dont see many possible application here. Socionic dating is agood idea, but I dont find this is the main application possible. Its more a "fashion" stuff. Some addition in Couple healing practice/theory can derivate too from this idea.
    If socionic was more know, there will be many way to generate cash in this area

    3. Design groups of people who must cooperate with each other (already being done in Russia)


    4. Communication, persuasion, diplomacy, conflict negotiations - how do you talk to someone or persuade somebody to do something if they think differently than you do and value different things? Which beliefs and customs result from socionic quadra values, and which ones don't necessarily? For instance, religious believers and atheists exist in all quadras. So that is something that doesn't necessarily depend on quadra values, but it can be connected with them. How can you change someone's mind about something? How can you persuade someone to do something, believe something, or value something? How can you use socionics knowledge to help you do this?
    Yes worth trying good idea especially 4 (but why you want to change other thinking ? You are in the irak war at this moment ?)
    There are a few reasons why I'm interested in changing people's minds. About the Iraq war: I don't want to go into other countries and force people to change what they're doing, and if I could make the troops get out of there and go home, I would love to. So I don't mean it like that.

    Instead, it's because I have a lot of unusual beliefs that hardly anyone else around me agrees with. And it's not just one or two unusual beliefs, it's half a dozen or so beliefs. The likelihood of finding other people who agree with me about these beliefs is extremely unlikely. I can find people who agree with me about one or two small things, but not all of it. So I would like to be able to communicate with people and convince more people to believe some of the things that I believe.



    Quote Originally Posted by noid View Post
    Other application Ive see :
    they are many application into psychology, for example defining new criteria for psy healing. Current psychology, psychanalyse and psychatry could integrate some part of socionic theory. We can see socionic for example as a big help and solid base for the DSM, or another way to describe what Freud have seen.

    Other possibility is use on recruitement, group project, administration, company world, ect... this is evident , and some other tool are already used (big five, mbti , crystal ball ... A friend for ex have build a recruitement website like monster based on some mbti criteria), dont need to develop this, just warn that this will inevitably lead to some shit.

    Historically the theory of quadra progression can give some light or perhaps new understanding.

    The quadra progression : perhaps its possible to adapt the crux characteristics of this progression to more than human history.
    Perhaps its a natural evolution of many things outside "type". I see for example try of application into marketing : idealy a product, from birth to continuity and evolution need perhaps to have this style of progression as lifecycle.
    Ex a product will have more characteristic from 1th quadra at the beginning, more 2th after, ect. This can perhaps lead to endless renewal of a product, and avoid to stop on certain phase (many company have a dirty habit to stay blocked on the perfectionnist phase imo). You see ?

    Im dj and ive had the idea too that create a long mix wich follow this quadra progression... Many stuff are possible with this theory
    About products that get stuck in a certain phase, I'm thinking of Microsoft Windows, for instance. It just gets bigger and bulkier and slower with every new version. I was using Windows 98 for a really long time (I still would be, except that my computer is packed in a storage unit right now and I don't have anyplace to set it up, since I'm living in my car). They just keep adding more things that hardly anyone uses. It would be much better to have some computer operating system in a totally different 'phase,' something simple and basic, but with lots of features missing. If people actually wanted those features, they would just buy Windows instead.

    So someone could use the socionics quadras as a sort of inspiration that would suggest which phases they might want to move a product into. But I think a lot of different things could provide inspiration for how to structure the phases, not just socionics. (I don't know what, though.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nico1e View Post

    After that, what can you do now that you know their types? I'm thinking of a few things.

    ...
    I think you covered it very well.

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    Yes, and actually, I was being sloppy. I agree with you that people are able to go into fields of study or jobs that don't seem to fit their type, like, intuitives who are weightlifters, and that kind of thing.
    I know quite a bit of personal trainers/weightlifters who are intuitives. A lot of whom were bullied for being too fat/out of shape as a kid, and so wanted to prove themselves by being good at something other people thought they were weak in.

    It never really surprised/shocked me though as being such a weird thing... Usually what I have found rarer was the other way around. (A sensor physical str8 man type taking up something faggy, artistic and intuitive)

    Although fitness/sports has a definite bias for sensing, there is some aspects I'm sure that requires having strong intuition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    I refrain from talking about Star Wars to gammas, which helps me avoid uncomfortable silences.
    I like star wars, especially the 3 older ones, episode 4 5 and 6.

    And I have a huge collection star wars models, including spaceships.

    I'm still looking for a cheap r2d2 look a like trashbin, so if you find one...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    I refrain from talking about Star Wars to gammas, which helps me avoid uncomfortable silences.
    I like star wars, especially the 3 older ones, episode 4 5 and 6.

    And I have a huge collection star wars models, including spaceships.

    I'm still looking for a cheap r2d2 look a like trashbin, so if you find one...
    I don't have an r2d2 trashbin, but I do have a hollow plastic piggybank shaped like Snoopy the dog wearing a football uniform. When I received this piggybank, I was too young to give any feedback about which particular piggybank I would receive, because I have a feeling that I wouldn't have chosen Snoopy wearing a football uniform.

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    It can help with therapy. As in, knowing how a person gathers information and perceives/interacts with the world....when healthy....can help create a better system for helping them re/create that healthy perception/interaction, rather than trying to force fit a psychology theory into every person, regardless of type.

    An example: I had major difficulties with a TiSe psychologist who viewed every NeFi thing about me as being disordered. His belief seemed to be that I needed to become more Ti/Fe, and eradicate my Ne. Were socionics known by both he and I at the time, we could have placed me with someone who would work with how I process information and how I healthily interact with the world, rather than he and I constantly battling...but not really knowing what was at the core of the battles.

    Another example: I would not have been placed in a particular therapeutic program that was aimed at helping people become more Ti base. Nor would I have been labeled a difficult patient when I refused to continue that particular program. It would have been obvious that there was a socionically related mismatch.


    I can see knowledge of socionics also used in creating something like a tutoring or coaching program. Where there is a team of people, of a variety of types, that a student/client can turn to for advice or help with something particular. An NeFi can seek out a TiNe for certain kinds of info on a particular topic, which they can then incorporate into whatever it is that they are doing. Or an SiXe for say....grasping the physical mechanics of a sports activity....or a gamma NT for feedback on a plan... Etc.

    This allows for any type to get involved into any career/activity, making sure that they can cover their own weak points, AND bring a fresh perspective to a field that may be saturated with one or two types....which limits that field to the one or two approaches/understandings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    It can help with therapy. As in, knowing how a person gathers information and perceives/interacts with the world....when healthy....can help create a better system for helping them re/create that healthy perception/interaction, rather than trying to force fit a psychology theory into every person, regardless of type.

    An example: I had major difficulties with a TiSe psychologist who viewed every NeFi thing about me as being disordered. His belief seemed to be that I needed to become more Ti/Fe, and eradicate my Ne. Were socionics known by both he and I at the time, we could have placed me with someone who would work with how I process information and how I healthily interact with the world, rather than he and I constantly battling...but not really knowing what was at the core of the battles.

    Another example: I would not have been placed in a particular therapeutic program that was aimed at helping people become more Ti base. Nor would I have been labeled a difficult patient when I refused to continue that particular program. It would have been obvious that there was a socionically related mismatch.


    I can see knowledge of socionics also used in creating something like a tutoring or coaching program. Where there is a team of people, of a variety of types, that a student/client can turn to for advice or help with something particular. An NeFi can seek out a TiNe for certain kinds of info on a particular topic, which they can then incorporate into whatever it is that they are doing. Or an SiXe for say....grasping the physical mechanics of a sports activity....or a gamma NT for feedback on a plan... Etc.

    This allows for any type to get involved into any career/activity, making sure that they can cover their own weak points, AND bring a fresh perspective to a field that may be saturated with one or two types....which limits that field to the one or two approaches/understandings.
    I would like to have lots of examples of 'healthy' role models for all of the types. I think children need to look at these role models to understand their own potential and to feel as though everything's going to be all right, that they can succeed in life, because others have before them. It's not very helpful to look at a role model whose type is completely different from your own, someone who achieves whatever they achieved while looking at the world in a completely different way than you do, someone whose energy is different, someone who values completely different things than you do.

    All I can say about you and the TiSe psychologist is, that would be awful. That's exactly what socionics (and all personality typing systems) are supposed to be able to help with, to keep people from judging someone else's style as 'wrong' and trying to 'fix' them.

    This is even more of a problem whenever drugs are used. It's true that there is such a thing as mental illness, something beyond just being 'the wrong type' - autism, or hyperactivity, for instance, are both problems that really exist and are not merely type related. However, each person's type manifests itself in their illness, making them behave in ways that are more extreme and more annoying to others, and their individual manifestations of illness do connect to their types. If you understand what their type is, and put them with people who love that type or at least tolerate that type, then maybe you can avoid just drugging them to solve all their problems. And avoiding drugs is what I want most. Drugs are so dangerous and so harmful that I think we should do everything possible to avoid them.

    I like the concept of 'bringing a fresh perspective to a field dominated by one or two types.' This is very obvious in my workplace. I work at McDonald's, and I'm pretty sure that everyone there is a sensor, except one girl who I suspect is an EIE. The only intuitives are in upper level management, and we don't see them very often, as they don't actually work in the store. I wonder about the fast food business or the restaurant business - what would it be like if more intuitive types were involved? We would have more of a long-term, large-scale strategy. I know that I would enjoy my job more if we had more intuitives there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Yes, life coaching is the type of thing that I'm talking about. I'm wondering if you have actually started doing that, or is it still a 'work in progress?' Do you have clients yet? I am sort of shocked by the amount of money in it, but yet, it's sort of like consulting or psychotherapy, and both of those can be very expensive.

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    Star Wars is delta

    Hmm actually what I've noticed that's been kinda interesting in my career is that my favorite composers are mostly the same type as myself. I don't know if that's because I have a good ear or if it's just a coincidence. That's probably not what you're talking about but there's definitely a certain science to how music gets interpreted and arranged by types, and it gets me thinking, perhaps going deeper into this part of psychology and categorizing more empirical examples of music and defining commonalities. Then when taken someone's musical tastes into consideration, there can be a kind of music recommender program updated to take Socionics into consideration. I mean that's just one possibility, I haven't thought about it much. The future will even incorporate robots that create new advanced art and such, so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nico1e View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Yes, life coaching is the type of thing that I'm talking about. I'm wondering if you have actually started doing that, or is it still a 'work in progress?' Do you have clients yet? I am sort of shocked by the amount of money in it, but yet, it's sort of like consulting or psychotherapy, and both of those can be very expensive.
    I started doing it long before I put up the website...or blog; I'm not computer savvy so I just did a blog. I do have clients, most are college students who need a lot of coaching. There are high end clients in LA; it's one of those towns where people are very consumer driven. I am still pursuing a masters in Psychology and when I'm done with it, I'll be able to offer my services as an adjunct and might even teach.

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    I find myself wanting to know the types of new doctors before I go to see them. For example, I would rather like to find an IEE ob/gyn (female).. am I a bad person? heh
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    Quote Originally Posted by meals View Post
    I find myself wanting to know the types of new doctors before I go to see them. For example, I would rather like to find an IEE ob/gyn (female).. am I a bad person? heh
    Off Topic:
    I'm willing to settle for a female ob/gyn of any type...as long as my insurance will pay for her.
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    Quote Originally Posted by meals View Post
    I find myself wanting to know the types of new doctors before I go to see them. For example, I would rather like to find an IEE ob/gyn (female).. am I a bad person? heh
    I picked up this book out of curiosity when I was wandering around at Barnes & Noble, and I think this guy might be an EII.

    http://www.touchpointsbook.com/

    I didn't buy the book, I just glanced through it.

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