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Thread: Typing a mexican't

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    Default Typing a mexican't

    Hello everybody,

    I am new to this forum, but I am certainly not a new face to the typology systems around. Some of you may have seen me in other forums like PerN, PerC, TypeC, INFJs and so. I'm 23 years old, born in America and raised in Mexico. I'm a grad student (Masters) in environmental engineering. In Jungian systems, I am a Ti dominant with Ne as my auxiliary, and I'm a 5 (if you believe in wings, I'm a 5w6, and if you are one of the nuts who believes in tritypes, I'm a 5w6-3w4-9w8).

    While I've invested most of my time to Jungian's cognitive functions, and more recently to enneagram and OCEAN, socionics is still a very new field for me. I've tried to learn as much as I can from members like Aleksei and others that are in Personality Nation, but I've come here because this forum has been referenced to have many more people knowledgeable in socionics.

    With this said, I've decided to answer Aleksei's questionnaire to begin this typing session .

    1) Pick 5 words or short phrases (or as many as you want, but no less than 5) to describe yourself, and explain.

    Independent. There has always been this drive in myself to be independent, and it wasn't until 4 years ago when I moved to the US away from my family that I was able to achieve this. You might argue that I'm still a prisoner to my educational loan debts or credit card payments, but I feel more free in the aspect of my lifestyle. I value my independence TOO much, to the point that I've gotten to the point where I look down on people who get married at early ages (19-20) and staying in unhealthy relationships in exchange for security. I simply cannot conceive of this. Give me responsibilities, give me having to own my defects, give me personal stress.... I will take them over sacrificing my authenticity.
    Intelligent. I hate using this word because it makes me sound like a pompous asshole, but many people decide to describe me this way and I don't disagree with it entirely. Yeah, I'm intelligent compared to most of the people in my age range and with my background. How I've become a great instructor on a wide range of topics isn't merely out of dedication (which honestly I don't have much of). It's just VERY easy for me to grasp concepts once I understand the underlying structure.
    Curious. This goes hand in hand with what I said in the previous paragraph. I submerge myself in a LOT of topics, and I try to not come back empty handed from these intellectual journeys. The phrase of "Jack of all trades, king of none" applies HEAVILY to me.
    Good Instructor. "not come back empty handed" is an understatement. In all honesty, I am very good at explaining concepts once I get an idea. I often find myself learning MORE as I teach, because putting it in understandable and global words makes everything make more sense. This appreciation for understanding more stuff through interactions has led me have a passion for teaching, and why I've had success as a private tutor in music, math, reading, engineering, typology, etc.
    Resourceful. I think I've made this clear already. Read Intelligence and good instructor and you will see why a lot of people want me in their side when it comes to knowing things.
    Logical. I think I've also made this clear earlier. I have a good ability to understand principles of theories and systems if they follow some sort of non-random structure. It's not that I don't like spontaneity (matter of fact, I love it), but I'm just better with reliable systems.

    2) Now pick the direct opposite of those and explain how you could be the opposite, and what could be good about it.

    Independent -> Dependent. While rarely (especially not as of lately), I can be dependent on a personal with who I am having a sexual relationship. It is often for me to feel passionate about a person who I am very fond of, to the point where she can consume my thoughts day and night. It makes me a VERY good, reliable partner who will fight until things just don't make sense.
    Intelligent -> Ignorant. I can be ignorant on several topics once I try to jump in motion on something I am not familiar with. I do this constantly as I never like to think that another person have some of intellectual superiority over me, which leads me to sometimes people think I have no idea what am I doing.
    Curious -> Indifferent. If I don't see the point on further expanding my knowledge on something, or I see that a person has nothing of worth to offer me, I will simply stop caring and look at the ceiling. Being indifferent sort of helps me withdraw from situations, as being curious means you get invested on something, and pulling out of it might be harder once that energy is there. While being indifferent, there really is just no commitment (at least emotional commitment).
    Good Instructor -> Bad Instructor. I can be a bad professor when people ask me the same question continuously and I ran out of ideas how to get it through them. I can also be bad when people go "Nah, I won't go to the lecture, I'll just let you explain it to me", because they are assuming that spending time frustrating myself with people for free is very fun. When people do that, I MAKE them want to go to class. It's good to be a bad professor because it helps me not have people depend on me day in and day out.
    Resourceful - Unreliable. Yeah I can be pretty unreliable when I don't have anything to base myself upon. If you give me all of the pieces for a device I've never even SEEN or know what it does, and you expect me to put it together within a deadline, you can bet i will be unreliable. However, it is not that bad, because being unreliable (in my case) is like being at the bottom of the hill, and the only way to go is up. If I was never able to put it together, at least I will get how NOT TO do it, which is not completely useless at the end.
    Logical -> Absurd. Yeah in love, I tend to have this absurd expectations (explaining the few relationships in my life) when seeking for a partner. How could I not? I can't settle for just "good" in utilitarian terms... I need that extra-something that my heart craves, and it can't be logically explained, let alone put into words.

    3) What are your interests? Why?

    ... You're opening up a pandora's box in here.

    Typology systems -> I've always been a fan of human psychology (and I'm not such a bad therapist tbh). The human psyche is a fascinating thing, and typology systems provide an easy way to make some connections with external things without having to get a degree to understand it. I've learned a lot about psychology with these systems.
    Music -> Been playing guitar since I was 8, I haven't stopped. I love music as a listener and as a performer. I love non-verbal communication, and there many songs that don't need to say something to express more than a conversation can give me.
    Engineering -> Amazing combination of theory and reality. I love theoretical sciences like math, physics and chemistry, and I submerge myself into these so much. I will say that it is VERY easy for me to understand the concepts when I'm working with them rather than just reading, and engineering provides this alternative.
    Animals -> I am currently volunteering at the clinic of an animal rescue place. I love animals, to the point where I don't even eat them. At the moment, I share the bed with my puppy 'Luna'. I've always been around animals: Dogs, cats, fishes, guinea pigs, hamsters, etc. I love animals for their innocence. You can observe a behavior that is not manipulated completely by collective expectations or malicious tendencies in most of them. Most of all, they are great company .

    I have many others, but let's just leave it as that for now.

    4) What do you want out of life?

    What are my options?

    5) What can you not do, because it might jeopardize your survival?


    Too many drugs. For as curious as I am of most things, I do hold back from trying drugs that might be too hard on my body and I might develop a dependency. I've tried the ones that I know won't be that hard on me, but I'm still unsure on just trying anything.
    Spend all of my savings away on hedonistic manners. I've always been very future driven, and this has led me to a very pleasant and bright present. Part of this has come from saving money and use it only when it is necessary.

    6) What do you like in other people? Why?


    For the most part, it's selfless-ness. To be able to act on the people surrounding you without any effect on you is amazing. Someone who is so detached from one's own convictions and needs, yet is reliable as a society is something AMAZING.

    I also like social wittiness a lot. Humor is an important part of creating positive resolutions, and to be able to mold a situation into a positive and humoristic scenario requires an almost supernatural ability.

    7) What do you dislike in other people? Why?


    I hate brown-nosing. It shows that you have absolutely nothing to show but your flattery skills (which aren't too hard to obtain anyway). The reason why I detest it so much it's mainly because it can work... and it can work SO well. Some people are very blunt about it, and some are a litle bit more subtle, but regardless of the way, a good social rubbing can take you more places than your other skills, more specifically, the ones related to the task at hand.

    I also hate people who I need to work around extensively around their emotions to be objective but not hurt them. I know there is always a social vocabulary that needs to be presented in order to receive your comments/ideas/judgments in a more positive light, and people have different experiences which makes them think this and BLAH... but when I have to pretty much APOLOGIZE for everything I have to say, or ask permissions... I can't stand it. Funnily, I tend to be the bluntest with these people, as if they broke the boundaries I have and I just let the lion out.

    Also, people who think of nothing but doing drugs all of the time for nothing out of just recreational use. I can completely understand if you are going through a phase and they help you come with some stuff, and I can understand if you do it to get inspired in artistical matters... but just for the sake of it, experience has taught me that these people are just extremely lazy, useless, and consider this type of people a waste of oxygen.

    8) What would your ideal partner be like?


    *shrugs* I really don't know. I've met so many different people throughout my life, and I gotta say that I like the diversity.I don't think there is a perfect match, or some attributes that I am seeking in every single person. I guess it's just a person that has the traits I described in the "things I like about a person" part, and doesn't have the things in the "thing I hate about a person" section.

    9) Do you enjoy comfort, sensory indulgence, relaxation? Are you physically hedonistic (parties, dancing, binges, good eating, etc.)? Do you focus finely on physical sensations, carefully savoring them?


    I relax a lot. You know the whole "work 5 minutes and rest for 2 minutes" shit? I do that, except the other way around. When I relax, it's not necessarily a "shutting down your brain and just waste time", it's more of distracting myself from a project with another project.

    I do love oversleeping though . Dreams are a fascinating thing. I yearn every night for my sleep because I learn a lot about myself if I have a good dream.

    Other than that, I wouldn't really call myself "sensory" driven or so. My room is a mess, I like parties if a group of close friends are there to hang out with. I drink alcohol as a social lubricant, etc.

    10) Do you find yourself neglecting bodily concerns and pushing your body beyond reasonable limits (like skipping sleep or meals or the like)? If so, do you appreciate being encouraged to slow down and take care of yourself, or does it make you feel annoyed or mollycoddled?


    I push it ALL of the time xD. Not showering everyday, not brushing my teeth 3 times a day, not washing dishes, etc. I can be very unsanitary with myself because of how absent-minded I tend to be, so it is nice to have someone remind me that I actually have responsibilities with my body and my housekeeping.

    11) Do you focus more on what you need to take care of at the moment, or on the end goal? Do you prefer an attitude of leaving no stone left unturned, or do you only focus on what you feel is necessary to reach your end goals? Are you thorough or sloppy? If neither applies to you, which do you prefer in other people?


    END goals completely. I focus a lot of long term, mainly because the efforts you have to do for them in the present are very small compared to the ones for results in the short-term (which are often not as good). I can be very sloppy about it, because as I said, I sort of seek the path of least resistance.

    12) Are you forever chasing after new ideas and possibilities, or do you prefer dreaming up imaginative scenarios and fully fleshed-out plans? If neither applies to you, which do you prefer in other people?


    New ideas and possibilities. I like imagining shit, but I like for them to actually have some sort of validity in the real world. Imaginative scenarios are cool and all but yeeeeah, eh.


    13) Do you look for the hidden implications of concepts in analysis, and what they lead to? Or do you prefer to examine how concepts relate to each other? If neither applies to you, which do you prefer in other people?


    Concepts relate to each other. Things are more interconnected with one another than we realize, and it is FUN to seek them out.

    14) Do you solve all variables, difficulties and contingencies as they come up? Or do you prefer to pick the most likely outcome or most likely conclusion and plan with it in mind?


    Most likely outcome/conclusion. I spend time thinking about what is more likely to happen and plan for that... although this tends to often bite me in the ass because if I overlooked a detail that was to change the outcome, my planning has been completely fucked.

    15) Are you prone to uncertainty or indecisiveness? When you have multiple opportunities to choose from, do you analyze them all? Or do you want to cut out the ones that aren’t likely or are least likely; pick just one?


    Cut out the ones that aren't likely or are least likely, as I stated in the other question.
    16) Are you open to any avenue that might offer potential opportunities? Or do you prefer to make sure the odds are in favor of a new avenue bringing benefits?


    Any avenue that might offer potential opportunities. Seems contradictory to what I said in the past, but if something is imminent, I try to imagine what it is so I can prepare for it. If the situation doesn't necessarily have a defined goal, I prefer to explore as many options as possible.

    17) Are you assertive? Aggressive? Do you like it when other people are?


    I don't consider myself to be, but a lot of people think that I can be, and EXTREMELY. I guess I can call myself assertive compared to most of the people in my life, but I still think that it's very small compared to a lot of people around me. I do like it when people are assertive/aggressive but ONLY if they mix it up with honesty.

    18) Are you able to relax? Or are you restless and fidgety?


    I relax while I fidget hah... so it's hard for me to do so. I am often playing with my fingers, with paper labels in drinks, with phones, etc.

    19) Do you prefer concepts, principles, rules, procedures, etc. to be precise and lack ambiguity, or do you prefer simple solutions that offer (or as long as they offer) greater efficiency and productivity?


    Concepts... "simple solutions" change over time constantly and I find it dumb to go by them since they are more likely to change than say, a principle.

    20) Are you a practical person in general? Elaborate.


    I am getting an environmental engineering and my thesis is all about experimental procedures, what do you think? . I like hands-on work, but that's because this keeps me focused on something, since otherwise I am very prone to have my mind wander off on tangents that while fun, are useless.

    21) Are you passionate? Emotional? Given to performance or histrionics? Do you enjoy those qualities in other people?


    Not really :\. I tend to be sort of cold and aloof. People sometimes try to read too much into my emotional manifestations because I rarely exhibit them, so it almost seems like a miracle for them.

    22) Are you aware of when you're stepping on other peoples' toes, or offend them? When you're not liked?

    I am. I do try to have tact when addressing people and so, even though my mind is probably already thinking of a racist joke about them .

    23) Are you sensitive to others being emotionally hurt or offended?


    Nah... I prefer to just go "aww " and shut up so I don't have to put up with the emotional diarrhea that often comes out of this.

    24) Would you say that the status of your personal relationships with people, your distance to them, is an important criterion for guiding your behavior?


    I would indeed

    Visual Identification:


    Pic taken before I started writing this questionaire. Most recent look.


    This is my glamour shot, and often the pic that I use if I need to present myself. It's a good pic, but a bit misleading. This was about 2 years ago.


    Picture of me and my dog that I've had requested by several people. I love this motherfucker. And yes, the room I took this picture in is my room, and it's even messier than it seems. This is about 6 months ago.


    I'm the guy in the top left, wearing the blue long sleeve t-shirt. This is my closest group of friends, even though I moved away from this city 4 years ago. The group is now 1 person smaller than this picture, but it still holds.


    I'm the guy in the back with the black t-shirt. I used to be in a band as a bass player. I've quit since then to focus on grad school, but I still look back on those years very fondly.
    ILE; INTP
    5w6 so; rcUe|I|;

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    Quack quack Hemoglobin's Avatar
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    You make stalking you so much fun

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    Marie84's Avatar
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    Do you relate to anything you've read about ILE by any chance?
    EII INFj
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    Phthalate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    Do you relate to anything you've read about ILE by any chance?


    I have... from my understanding of ILE as I was told from another person, it seems that ILEs are usually very comfortable with manifestation of emotions, with people crying and so. They seem to be more open to embrace the feelings of others, while I am very good at shunning them away and go "ohhhh not your crying again ."

    Am I off?
    ILE; INTP
    5w6 so; rcUe|I|;

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    Samuel the Gabriel H. MisterNi's Avatar
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    You seem to be some of leading type so IEI or ILI.

    IEE Ne Creative Type

    Some and role lovin too. () I too...
    !!!!!!

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Maybe ILI.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    ഗന᎕ᒹ ±ᗉᚔXᙂഗ woofwoofl's Avatar
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    From my interactions with you on cam, I put you as /, with ILE, LII, SLI, and SEI as possibilities, in descending order...

    Right now, I'm gonna go Ne-ILE - and hell yeah for not eating animals, I've been vegan for six or seven years!

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    Skimming through the OP, my first reaction was that you look like munenori2. So I'm gonna skip everything you wrote and guess SEI. Because that's how we type here. Yes, we can.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    Do you relate to anything you've read about ILE by any chance?


    I have... from my understanding of ILE as I was told from another person, it seems that ILEs are usually very comfortable with manifestation of emotions, with people crying and so. They seem to be more open to embrace the feelings of others, while I am very good at shunning them away and go "ohhhh not your crying again ."

    Am I off?
    I guess it depends on the reasoning behind the emotions, but I'm of the impression that ILE's valuing both Fe+Si and being Fi vulnerable are concerned with a positive atmosphere being maintained, where people are not getting hung-up on offenses and sharing touchy sentiments that could deflate the mood.

    Expressions of deep personal sentiments are awkward for the individual, whether coming from another or himself. He does not see it as his "right" to place the burden of his true emotions on another, both because he knows how uncomfortable those of others make him (even when they are positive and genuine), and because of his own awkwardness in expressing them.
    http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Fi
    While this is probably a bias statement on my part, I've feel like ILE's have a particular ability to not hold grudges against people, that is they may make slips and say or do something insensitive, or even have someone do so to them, get bothered by it but later go back to interacting with the individual as if nothing happened, no apologies or obvious awkwardness. Which I think goes back to them valuing Fe+Si>Fi+Se, being that they'd prefer to work on maintaining a positive, inclusive, mood instead of holding judgement and vindictiveness against people
    EII INFj
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    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Malnourished freaks.


    Now it all makes sense...
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post



    I have... from my understanding of ILE as I was told from another person, it seems that ILEs are usually very comfortable with manifestation of emotions, with people crying and so. They seem to be more open to embrace the feelings of others, while I am very good at shunning them away and go "ohhhh not your crying again ."

    Am I off?
    I guess it depends on the reasoning behind the emotions, but I'm of the impression that ILE's valuing both Fe+Si and being Fi vulnerable are concerned with a positive atmosphere being maintained, where people are not getting hung-up on offenses and sharing touchy sentiments that could deflate the mood.

    Expressions of deep personal sentiments are awkward for the individual, whether coming from another or himself. He does not see it as his "right" to place the burden of his true emotions on another, both because he knows how uncomfortable those of others make him (even when they are positive and genuine), and because of his own awkwardness in expressing them.
    http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Fi
    While this is probably a bias statement on my part, I've feel like ILE's have a particular ability to not hold grudges against people, that is they may make slips and say or do something insensitive, or even have someone do so to them, get bothered by it but later go back to interacting with the individual as if nothing happened, no apologies or obvious awkwardness. Which I think goes back to them valuing Fe+Si>Fi+Se, being that they'd prefer to work on maintaining a positive, inclusive, mood instead of holding judgement and vindictiveness against people

    That was very enlightening! Thank you for pointing out to me the roles of each function in every position.

    I just went over the position of Fi in an individual, and I don't agree with the one for ILE. I don't take first steps, I don't "long" for close relationships, nor do I assume a person is a friend/enemy from the starting point. I just don't use Fi the way ILE does.

    I did look at how ILIs and LIIs do it, and I relate to them much more. For me, emotional signs of affection should only be manifested when they are authentic and helpful, and I shouldn't feel the need to fake them to get somewhere. I relate to the description of Fi on LIIs more, but the one for ILI isn't necessarily too far away from it.

    Reading about Fi made me go to the section on Fe, and I am still relating more to Fe as a suggestive over a vulnerable. I'm not necessarily someone who REPRESSES feelings the way Fe-vulnerable looks, and as I said earlier, I just like to express them when they're meaningful and authentic.

    Off the top of my head (and I'm sure I can find more), there are two attributes which belong to ILI which I strongly disagree with. The first one is the Victim role. While I am at it, I also disagree completely with thinking that an "aggressor" is attractive. I dated one, and after she revealed her intentions of wanting to act this way (I wasn't aware of socionics back then, so this was very authentic), it was EXTREMELY displeasing for me. I relate to infantile MUCH more.

    The other one is that I am merry, not serious. Serious looks like too much work, and looks very petty and accusing. I am much more care-free, and I'm personally detached from these issues. I prefer to let things slide and fix the problem, over pointing the finger.

    Another thing I have to say is that I've gone over SEE description, and I don't find it particularly attractive. I've met some people like that in my life too, and I can't say that I had a bone for them whatsoever. I still have to read the one for ESE, so I can't claim LII > ILI here yet. I will say that SEI did look attractive from when I was reading it (although I wouldn't necessarily call it a soul mate), which would put me closer to being an ILE too.




    I'm still reading into all of these things, and I want to go function by function between ILE/ILI/LII to see which ones fit better. Thank you so much guys! You've been REALLY helpful thus far. I'd really like more comments if you have them!

    P.s. Wouldn't it be funny if I end up becoming a LIE? xD
    ILE; INTP
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    Self banned bionic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Malnourished freaks.


    Now it all makes sense...
    Oh the nutrients!
    http://www.smellypoop.com/facts_about_poop.php

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    Quote Originally Posted by bionic View Post
    Click.

    "The vegetarians were emaciated and skinny.
    Something to the effect of gas chambers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
    That was very enlightening! Thank you for pointing out to me the roles of each function in every position.

    I just went over the position of Fi in an individual, and I don't agree with the one for ILE. I don't take first steps, I don't "long" for close relationships, nor do I assume a person is a friend/enemy from the starting point. I just don't use Fi the way ILE does.
    I think you may have confused the LIE/LSE use of Fi with ILE/SLE (since they're above and below one another it's understandable)

    This is the one for ILE and SLE

    The individual does not normally pay attention to the nuances of interpersonal relationships; he is either overly suspicious or overly assuming of his relations with others when they are not clearly defined. More importance is given to these relations as they pertain to objective mutual benefit; entertaining one another and accomplishing mutual goals are seen as the main focus, rather than seeing the relationships as rewarding in and of themselves. The individual does not expect others to be actively aware or concerned with his own personal sentiments, and so sees little reason to be concerned with those of others, unless they have direct consequences for the individual. Statements by other persons reflecting their inner feelings are not fully registered by the individual if not accompanied by external emotional expression or actions. Suggestions that the individual may have acted unethically in the eyes of another person who has not clearly expressed disapproval are met with bafflement by the individual; those that are expressed without tact are either dismissed or reacted to aggressively.

    Expressions of deep personal sentiments are awkward for the individual, whether coming from another or himself. He does not see it as his "right" to place the burden of his true emotions on another, both because he knows how uncomfortable those of others make him (even when they are positive and genuine), and because of his own awkwardness in expressing them.
    This is LSE/LIE

    The individual longs for close personal relationships where personal and private experiences can be shared easily in an atmosphere of mutual trust, sustained by shared sentiments and ethical beliefs that make external expression of emotions unnecessary. The individual is inclined to take first steps, but he is not confident of his ability to correctly evaluate the existence or status of such a relationship and therefore is attracted to persons who value clear and unambiguous personal relationships with others and who follow a clear set of ethical principles, which gives them credibility and makes them deserving of trust in the individual's eyes.

    The individual tends not to consider whether people are friends or enemies or whether they feel good will or ill will towards them. Instead, he or she usually acts right from the start as if the other person were a friend or an enemy based on their prior knowledge of what the person does. This makes it possible to mistake a friend for an enemy and vice versa. Only gradually does the individual come to recognize what feelings others have for him, and there is always an element of doubt unless others express those feelings verbally and unambiguously and act in a way that clearly matches their stated feelings, over a sufficient period of time. The individual is easily made insecure about the status of personal relationships and needs frequent reassurance that the other person's feelings have not changed.

    The individual is sheepish about expressing his personal feelings about people ("I find you really interesting" or "I like you a lot"), but responds very well to these statements, as if they were unexpected treats. Instead, the person tends to focus on whether others' behavior makes sense or not.
    ..................................


    I did look at how ILIs and LIIs do it, and I relate to them much more. For me, emotional signs of affection should only be manifested when they are authentic and helpful, and I shouldn't feel the need to fake them to get somewhere. I relate to the description of Fi on LIIs more, but the one for ILI isn't necessarily too far away from it.

    Reading about Fi made me go to the section on Fe, and I am still relating more to Fe as a suggestive over a vulnerable. I'm not necessarily someone who REPRESSES feelings the way Fe-vulnerable looks, and as I said earlier, I just like to express them when they're meaningful and authentic.

    Off the top of my head (and I'm sure I can find more), there are two attributes which belong to ILI which I strongly disagree with. The first one is the Victim role. While I am at it, I also disagree completely with thinking that an "aggressor" is attractive. I dated one, and after she revealed her intentions of wanting to act this way (I wasn't aware of socionics back then, so this was very authentic), it was EXTREMELY displeasing for me. I relate to infantile MUCH more.

    The other one is that I am merry, not serious. Serious looks like too much work, and looks very petty and accusing. I am much more care-free, and I'm personally detached from these issues. I prefer to let things slide and fix the problem, over pointing the finger.

    Another thing I have to say is that I've gone over SEE description, and I don't find it particularly attractive. I've met some people like that in my life too, and I can't say that I had a bone for them whatsoever. I still have to read the one for ESE, so I can't claim LII > ILI here yet. I will say that SEI did look attractive from when I was reading it (although I wouldn't necessarily call it a soul mate), which would put me closer to being an ILE too.




    I'm still reading into all of these things, and I want to go function by function between ILE/ILI/LII to see which ones fit better. Thank you so much guys! You've been REALLY helpful thus far. I'd really like more comments if you have them!

    P.s. Wouldn't it be funny if I end up becoming a LIE? xD
    IMO a lot of what you said here could apply to ILE or LII, or at least points in the direction
    EII INFj
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    My best guess is ILE
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    Yeah, I rethought my position, although ILE doesn't quite fit VI-wise...you're not an easy one
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
    1) Pick 5 words or short phrases (or as many as you want, but no less than 5) to describe yourself, and explain.

    Independent. There has always been this drive in myself to be independent, and it wasn't until 4 years ago when I moved to the US away from my family that I was able to achieve this. You might argue that I'm still a prisoner to my educational loan debts or credit card payments, but I feel more free in the aspect of my lifestyle. I value my independence TOO much, to the point that I've gotten to the point where I look down on people who get married at early ages (19-20) and staying in unhealthy relationships in exchange for security. I simply cannot conceive of this. Give me responsibilities, give me having to own my defects, give me personal stress.... I will take them over sacrificing my authenticity.

    Intelligent. I hate using this word because it makes me sound like a pompous asshole, but many people decide to describe me this way and I don't disagree with it entirely. Yeah, I'm intelligent compared to most of the people in my age range and with my background. How I've become a great instructor on a wide range of topics isn't merely out of dedication (which honestly I don't have much of). It's just VERY easy for me to grasp concepts once I understand the underlying structure.
    Curious. This goes hand in hand with what I said in the previous paragraph. I submerge myself in a LOT of topics, and I try to not come back empty handed from these intellectual journeys. The phrase of "Jack of all trades, king of none" applies HEAVILY to me.
    Good Instructor. "not come back empty handed" is an understatement. In all honesty, I am very good at explaining concepts once I get an idea. I often find myself learning MORE as I teach, because putting it in understandable and global words makes everything make more sense. This appreciation for understanding more stuff through interactions has led me have a passion for teaching, and why I've had success as a private tutor in music, math, reading, engineering, typology, etc.
    Resourceful. I think I've made this clear already. Read Intelligence and good instructor and you will see why a lot of people want me in their side when it comes to knowing things.
    Logical. I think I've also made this clear earlier. I have a good ability to understand principles of theories and systems if they follow some sort of non-random structure. It's not that I don't like spontaneity (matter of fact, I love it), but I'm just better with reliable systems.

    2) Now pick the direct opposite of those and explain how you could be the opposite, and what could be good about it.

    Independent -> Dependent. While rarely (especially not as of lately), I can be dependent on a personal with who I am having a sexual relationship. It is often for me to feel passionate about a person who I am very fond of, to the point where she can consume my thoughts day and night. It makes me a VERY good, reliable partner who will fight until things just don't make sense.
    Intelligent -> Ignorant. I can be ignorant on several topics once I try to jump in motion on something I am not familiar with. I do this constantly as I never like to think that another person have some of intellectual superiority over me, which leads me to sometimes people think I have no idea what am I doing.
    Curious -> Indifferent. If I don't see the point on further expanding my knowledge on something, or I see that a person has nothing of worth to offer me, I will simply stop caring and look at the ceiling. Being indifferent sort of helps me withdraw from situations, as being curious means you get invested on something, and pulling out of it might be harder once that energy is there. While being indifferent, there really is just no commitment (at least emotional commitment).
    Good Instructor -> Bad Instructor. I can be a bad professor when people ask me the same question continuously and I ran out of ideas how to get it through them. I can also be bad when people go "Nah, I won't go to the lecture, I'll just let you explain it to me", because they are assuming that spending time frustrating myself with people for free is very fun. When people do that, I MAKE them want to go to class. It's good to be a bad professor because it helps me not have people depend on me day in and day out.
    Resourceful - Unreliable. Yeah I can be pretty unreliable when I don't have anything to base myself upon. If you give me all of the pieces for a device I've never even SEEN or know what it does, and you expect me to put it together within a deadline, you can bet i will be unreliable. However, it is not that bad, because being unreliable (in my case) is like being at the bottom of the hill, and the only way to go is up. If I was never able to put it together, at least I will get how NOT TO do it, which is not completely useless at the end.
    Logical -> Absurd. Yeah in love, I tend to have this absurd expectations (explaining the few relationships in my life) when seeking for a partner. How could I not? I can't settle for just "good" in utilitarian terms... I need that extra-something that my heart craves, and it can't be logically explained, let alone put into words.

    3) What are your interests? Why?

    ... You're opening up a pandora's box in here.

    Typology systems -> I've always been a fan of human psychology (and I'm not such a bad therapist tbh). The human psyche is a fascinating thing, and typology systems provide an easy way to make some connections with external things without having to get a degree to understand it. I've learned a lot about psychology with these systems.
    Music -> Been playing guitar since I was 8, I haven't stopped. I love music as a listener and as a performer. I love non-verbal communication, and there many songs that don't need to say something to express more than a conversation can give me.
    Engineering -> Amazing combination of theory and reality. I love theoretical sciences like math, physics and chemistry, and I submerge myself into these so much. I will say that it is VERY easy for me to understand the concepts when I'm working with them rather than just reading, and engineering provides this alternative.
    Animals -> I am currently volunteering at the clinic of an animal rescue place. I love animals, to the point where I don't even eat them. At the moment, I share the bed with my puppy 'Luna'. I've always been around animals: Dogs, cats, fishes, guinea pigs, hamsters, etc. I love animals for their innocence. You can observe a behavior that is not manipulated completely by collective expectations or malicious tendencies in most of them. Most of all, they are great company .

    I have many others, but let's just leave it as that for now.

    4) What do you want out of life?

    What are my options?

    5) What can you not do, because it might jeopardize your survival?


    Too many drugs. For as curious as I am of most things, I do hold back from trying drugs that might be too hard on my body and I might develop a dependency. I've tried the ones that I know won't be that hard on me, but I'm still unsure on just trying anything.
    Spend all of my savings away on hedonistic manners. I've always been very future driven, and this has led me to a very pleasant and bright present. Part of this has come from saving money and use it only when it is necessary.

    6) What do you like in other people? Why?


    For the most part, it's selfless-ness. To be able to act on the people surrounding you without any effect on you is amazing. Someone who is so detached from one's own convictions and needs, yet is reliable as a society is something AMAZING.

    I also like social wittiness a lot. Humor is an important part of creating positive resolutions, and to be able to mold a situation into a positive and humoristic scenario requires an almost supernatural ability.

    7) What do you dislike in other people? Why?


    I hate brown-nosing. It shows that you have absolutely nothing to show but your flattery skills (which aren't too hard to obtain anyway). The reason why I detest it so much it's mainly because it can work... and it can work SO well. Some people are very blunt about it, and some are a litle bit more subtle, but regardless of the way, a good social rubbing can take you more places than your other skills, more specifically, the ones related to the task at hand.

    I also hate people who I need to work around extensively around their emotions to be objective but not hurt them. I know there is always a social vocabulary that needs to be presented in order to receive your comments/ideas/judgments in a more positive light, and people have different experiences which makes them think this and BLAH... but when I have to pretty much APOLOGIZE for everything I have to say, or ask permissions... I can't stand it. Funnily, I tend to be the bluntest with these people, as if they broke the boundaries I have and I just let the lion out.

    Also, people who think of nothing but doing drugs all of the time for nothing out of just recreational use. I can completely understand if you are going through a phase and they help you come with some stuff, and I can understand if you do it to get inspired in artistical matters... but just for the sake of it, experience has taught me that these people are just extremely lazy, useless, and consider this type of people a waste of oxygen.

    8) What would your ideal partner be like?


    *shrugs* I really don't know. I've met so many different people throughout my life, and I gotta say that I like the diversity.I don't think there is a perfect match, or some attributes that I am seeking in every single person. I guess it's just a person that has the traits I described in the "things I like about a person" part, and doesn't have the things in the "thing I hate about a person" section.

    9) Do you enjoy comfort, sensory indulgence, relaxation? Are you physically hedonistic (parties, dancing, binges, good eating, etc.)? Do you focus finely on physical sensations, carefully savoring them?


    I relax a lot. You know the whole "work 5 minutes and rest for 2 minutes" shit? I do that, except the other way around. When I relax, it's not necessarily a "shutting down your brain and just waste time", it's more of distracting myself from a project with another project.

    I do love oversleeping though . Dreams are a fascinating thing. I yearn every night for my sleep because I learn a lot about myself if I have a good dream.

    Other than that, I wouldn't really call myself "sensory" driven or so. My room is a mess, I like parties if a group of close friends are there to hang out with. I drink alcohol as a social lubricant, etc.

    10) Do you find yourself neglecting bodily concerns and pushing your body beyond reasonable limits (like skipping sleep or meals or the like)? If so, do you appreciate being encouraged to slow down and take care of yourself, or does it make you feel annoyed or mollycoddled?


    I push it ALL of the time xD. Not showering everyday, not brushing my teeth 3 times a day, not washing dishes, etc. I can be very unsanitary with myself because of how absent-minded I tend to be, so it is nice to have someone remind me that I actually have responsibilities with my body and my housekeeping.

    11) Do you focus more on what you need to take care of at the moment, or on the end goal? Do you prefer an attitude of leaving no stone left unturned, or do you only focus on what you feel is necessary to reach your end goals? Are you thorough or sloppy? If neither applies to you, which do you prefer in other people?


    END goals completely. I focus a lot of long term, mainly because the efforts you have to do for them in the present are very small compared to the ones for results in the short-term (which are often not as good). I can be very sloppy about it, because as I said, I sort of seek the path of least resistance.

    12) Are you forever chasing after new ideas and possibilities, or do you prefer dreaming up imaginative scenarios and fully fleshed-out plans? If neither applies to you, which do you prefer in other people?


    New ideas and possibilities. I like imagining shit, but I like for them to actually have some sort of validity in the real world. Imaginative scenarios are cool and all but yeeeeah, eh.


    13) Do you look for the hidden implications of concepts in analysis, and what they lead to? Or do you prefer to examine how concepts relate to each other? If neither applies to you, which do you prefer in other people?


    Concepts relate to each other. Things are more interconnected with one another than we realize, and it is FUN to seek them out.

    14) Do you solve all variables, difficulties and contingencies as they come up? Or do you prefer to pick the most likely outcome or most likely conclusion and plan with it in mind?


    Most likely outcome/conclusion. I spend time thinking about what is more likely to happen and plan for that... although this tends to often bite me in the ass because if I overlooked a detail that was to change the outcome, my planning has been completely fucked.

    15) Are you prone to uncertainty or indecisiveness? When you have multiple opportunities to choose from, do you analyze them all? Or do you want to cut out the ones that aren’t likely or are least likely; pick just one?


    Cut out the ones that aren't likely or are least likely, as I stated in the other question.
    16) Are you open to any avenue that might offer potential opportunities? Or do you prefer to make sure the odds are in favor of a new avenue bringing benefits?


    Any avenue that might offer potential opportunities. Seems contradictory to what I said in the past, but if something is imminent, I try to imagine what it is so I can prepare for it. If the situation doesn't necessarily have a defined goal, I prefer to explore as many options as possible.

    17) Are you assertive? Aggressive? Do you like it when other people are?


    I don't consider myself to be, but a lot of people think that I can be, and EXTREMELY. I guess I can call myself assertive compared to most of the people in my life, but I still think that it's very small compared to a lot of people around me. I do like it when people are assertive/aggressive but ONLY if they mix it up with honesty.

    18) Are you able to relax? Or are you restless and fidgety?


    I relax while I fidget hah... so it's hard for me to do so. I am often playing with my fingers, with paper labels in drinks, with phones, etc.

    19) Do you prefer concepts, principles, rules, procedures, etc. to be precise and lack ambiguity, or do you prefer simple solutions that offer (or as long as they offer) greater efficiency and productivity?


    Concepts... "simple solutions" change over time constantly and I find it dumb to go by them since they are more likely to change than say, a principle.

    20) Are you a practical person in general? Elaborate.


    I am getting an environmental engineering and my thesis is all about experimental procedures, what do you think? . I like hands-on work, but that's because this keeps me focused on something, since otherwise I am very prone to have my mind wander off on tangents that while fun, are useless.

    21) Are you passionate? Emotional? Given to performance or histrionics? Do you enjoy those qualities in other people?


    Not really :\. I tend to be sort of cold and aloof. People sometimes try to read too much into my emotional manifestations because I rarely exhibit them, so it almost seems like a miracle for them.

    22) Are you aware of when you're stepping on other peoples' toes, or offend them? When you're not liked?

    I am. I do try to have tact when addressing people and so, even though my mind is probably already thinking of a racist joke about them .

    23) Are you sensitive to others being emotionally hurt or offended?


    Nah... I prefer to just go "aww " and shut up so I don't have to put up with the emotional diarrhea that often comes out of this.

    24) Would you say that the status of your personal relationships with people, your distance to them, is an important criterion for guiding your behavior?


    I would indeed

    .

    ¡Podría haber dicho lo mismo! Creo que ya la pregunta / respuesta 1 indica Ne+Ti.
    Veredicto: ILE
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    Phthalate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
    That was very enlightening! Thank you for pointing out to me the roles of each function in every position.

    I just went over the position of Fi in an individual, and I don't agree with the one for ILE. I don't take first steps, I don't "long" for close relationships, nor do I assume a person is a friend/enemy from the starting point. I just don't use Fi the way ILE does.
    I think you may have confused the LIE/LSE use of Fi with ILE/SLE (since they're above and below one another it's understandable)


    IMO a lot of what you said here could apply to ILE or LII, or at least points in the direction
    I agree. What I was trying to say with this post was that I relate more to the carefree attitude of Alpha over the one of Gamma. I can see how having a Gamma attitude is beneficial, but I just don't act that way.

    Also, Se (LII) is definitely my vulnerable function, not Fi (ILE). I am much more willing to react negatively when someone shows a superiority complex and tries to impose/dominate, even if I'm not directly the accused party. In an example that I can somewhat show here, anybody familiar with Personality Nation has probably seen how I've called out the staff when they become too aggressive with the members, and I often (unconsciously) exaggerate their claims because I just DO NOT respond positively to anger/aggression. I do not react back aggressively, but as soon as I get a "wiff" of aggression, I get on a VERY defensive mode.

    Vulnerable Fi seems a bit more: "My gf just told me she loves me!... HEADBUTT HER IN THE FUCKING FACE!!", which is A BIT of what I do, but not really. I am more likely to act polite and just sort of dismiss it subtlety yet politely (which actually looks very much like role-Fi).

    I am, obviously, still very open to suggestions, and I am wondering why people are thinking about me being an ILE or so. I am curious as to see what have I said that lead you guys to ILE over LII.
    ILE; INTP
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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    LSE/SLI

    First of all, you haven't broken down things into analytical categories, which is an indication to me that you don't use Ti all that well. You seem rational.

    How do you define and understand Se? And, what about it do you relate to your "weakness"?

    How organized are you with your work/things?

    You see, I've noticed that LSE don't like to clean, but they do like things, especially their things to be organized.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
    " Most likely outcome/conclusion. I spend time thinking about what is more likely to happen and plan for that... although this tends to often bite me in the ass because if I overlooked a detail that was to change the outcome, my planning has been completely fucked."
    Planning is a very Te kinda thing to do...wiki it. You devalue Se because you can overlook a detail...you're not Beta quadra or gamma; that puts you in Alpha or Delta.

    That quote from your post also hints directly at PoLR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
    " New ideas and possibilities. I like imagining shit, but I like for them to actually have some sort of validity in the real world. Imaginative scenarios are cool and all but yeeeeah, eh."
    Seems more Si

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
    I hate brown-nosing. It shows that you have absolutely nothing to show but your flattery skills (which aren't too hard to obtain anyway). The reason why I detest it so much it's mainly because it can work... and it can work SO well. Some people are very blunt about it, and some are a litle bit more subtle, but regardless of the way, a good social rubbing can take you more places than your other skills, more specifically, the ones related to the task at hand.
    This would make you an asking type and also this is a good amount of Te. You're also doing Dynamics here, observing things in motion...what people do.

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p..._and_declaring
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 08-15-2011 at 06:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    LSE/SLI

    First of all, you haven't broken down things into analytical categories, which is an indication to me that you don't use Ti all that well. You seem rational.
    Interesting. What do you mean by breaking it down into analytical categories?

    How do you define and understand Se? And, what about it do you relate to your "weakness"?
    From what I've been reading, is very oriented to use power hierarchies. It seems like few words that can describe this are "power", "influence", "aggression", etc. I know this is very brief, but this should give you the main idea of what I'm talking about without getting too much about the specifics. Also, looks a lot like JCF's Te.

    I consider this my weakness because of what I said earlier in another post. As soon as someone manifests some sort of aggression or superiority, I get on a VERY defensive mode. It comes to the point where I just completely freeze under the threat of aggression, because my mind gets overloaded about what to do on such small notice. It's not even that I am attempting to "Keep the peace bro, everybody should be happy man", I just CAN'T confront it very well.

    This is the reason why I suck at physical fights, and I've never been part of one. By the time someone gives the first punch, I usually give a blank stare and I become VERY slow to react. It is one thing that I hate about myself, because it makes me feel very vulnerable and not that masculine. Nevertheless, it is a flaw that I will have to work on, although I might get my ass kicked several times throughout the process.

    How organized are you with your work/things?


    You see, I've noticed that LSE don't like to clean, but they do like things, especially their things to be organized.
    I'll let you be the judge of this:



    I also score usually about 1 SD below average in the C trait of OCEAN, as well as scoring VERY high on the P trait when taking MBTI trait. These both should tell you that I am one of the least organized nerds you'll ever find.



    Planning is a very Te kinda thing to do...wiki it. You devalue Se because you can overlook a detail...you're not Beta quadra or gamma; that puts you in Alpha or Delta.

    That quote from your post also hints directly at PoLR.



    Seems more Si

    This would make you an asking type and also this is a good amount of Te. You're also doing Dynamics here, observing things in motion...what people do.

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p..._and_declaring
    I will check that last link in a sec. I thought the "brown-nosing" part was more of a thing to do, but I will have to read more about this if this is not the case.

    I also don't plan as MUCH as I lead this on. I like to "THINK" in advance, but it's not necessarily putting time and resources on the objective. This is more of a "If I am asked to plan, what way will I take?"
    Last edited by Phthalate; 08-15-2011 at 07:08 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post

    I love that you've got a toilet roll next to your computer....

    Gotta be prepared for those late night masturbation sessions.

    Classy, babe. Classy.

    *cuddles Luna*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hemoglobin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post

    I love that you've got a toilet roll next to your computer....

    Gotta be prepared for those late night masturbation sessions.

    Classy, babe. Classy.

    *cuddles Luna*
    Actually, that's what socks are for ;D.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post

    Actually, that's what socks are for ;D.
    Nawwww... saving your sperm just for me!

    True love.

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    Talking with @Hemoglobin in private, she actually lead me on to something:

    To the people who have been so awesome about helping me, I have a slight question. Can you guys see me as a SLI at all?
    Last edited by Phthalate; 08-17-2011 at 02:19 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
    Talking with @Hemoglobin in private, she actually lead me on to something:

    To the people who have been so respectful in helping me, I have a slight question. Can you guys see me as a SLI at all?
    You just seem very IP to me from what I've seen of you on webcam and other interactions over the last year.

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    Haha I don't know if an SLI could survive having a room that messy O_o though I've seen an SEI with an even messier room...

    Either way your response to the Si question


    Do you find yourself neglecting bodily concerns and pushing your body beyond reasonable limits (like skipping sleep or meals or the like)? If so, do you appreciate being encouraged to slow down and take care of yourself, or does it make you feel annoyed or mollycoddled?

    I push it ALL of the time xD. Not showering everyday, not brushing my teeth 3 times a day, not washing dishes, etc. I can be very unsanitary with myself because of how absent-minded I tend to be, so it is nice to have someone remind me that I actually have responsibilities with my body and my housekeeping.
    Suggests not an Si ego

    "Jack of all trades, king of none" applies HEAVILY to me.
    I love that saying, applies to me too

    I only read some of your responses but maybe IEE for delta but more likely LII or ILE for alpha

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    Quote Originally Posted by moredhel View Post
    Haha I don't know if an SLI could survive having a room that messy O_o though I've seen an SEI with an even messier room...

    Either way your response to the Si question


    Do you find yourself neglecting bodily concerns and pushing your body beyond reasonable limits (like skipping sleep or meals or the like)? If so, do you appreciate being encouraged to slow down and take care of yourself, or does it make you feel annoyed or mollycoddled?

    I push it ALL of the time xD. Not showering everyday, not brushing my teeth 3 times a day, not washing dishes, etc. I can be very unsanitary with myself because of how absent-minded I tend to be, so it is nice to have someone remind me that I actually have responsibilities with my body and my housekeeping.
    Suggests not an Si ego

    "Jack of all trades, king of none" applies HEAVILY to me.
    I love that saying, applies to me too

    I only read some of your responses but maybe IEE for delta but more likely LII or ILE for alpha
    Hahaha yeah. The possibility of being a SLI arised from a lot of things in the description that actually did seem to have a lot of sense. The reason why I started considering it was that I was speaking about Hemoglobin, and she gave me a very simple procedure that made a hell of a lot of sense (just the way I like it). Go over the quadras and pick the one that fits you. Then go over the temperaments, and pick the one that fits you too. Look at the romance styles, some dichotomies and there you have it.

    And so I did. First, I went to see the temperaments, because I think that I know enough about the quadras which could bias my opinion.
    • EP - Looks very attractive, but I know I'm not one. It fits me up to a certain point, but it just seems way too jumpy and social compared to me (since I'm a little bit more inertia-prone).
    • EJ - Yeah no. I emphasize about me having a bit more inertia, and these guys pretty much oppose that. There were just SEVERAL parts where it didn't fit me. I walk slower than average, I am not a work-a-holic, I don't initiate contact with other people except under rare occassions, etc.
    • IP - yeeeah... it fits me very fucking well hah. The only point I don't agree with is the fidgeting part, but then again, I've been accused of resembling an autistic patient because of how absent-minded I tend to be like often. Maybe I'm only aware when I'm fidgeting, but ignore it when I'm not, if that makes sense.
    • IJ - We're getting a bit closer but still... meh. I like change. I like moving to different places where I don't know anybody. I beat boredom by overindulging in new knowledge, and this often comes from taking action on the external world (though I tend to take more time on processing it). What I described doesn't seem to be IJ-like, which are more security prone but please correct me if I'm making a bad assumption.


    Looking over the dichotomies now too, my preferrence towards a P lifestyle seems to indicate Dynamic > Static already, which I agree with.

    So I'm an IP, good. That leads me to think that I'm ILI, SLI, IEI and SEI. Let's go over the quadras then:

    • Alpha - There are a LOT of things here which I relate to, but then others I don't relate to drastically. I like theoretical stuff (ffs, I'm in a typology forum trying to get my type, which won't really change anything about lifestyle, but I still find it fun). I like thought-consistency. I like telling stories in detail because it gives people a better idea of what I'm talking about. I am also a very "hands-on" person, reason why I preferred to take a practical field (engineering) over one mostly theoretical (math/physics). I go off on tangents constantly too.

      I like positive atmospheres, but I'm not sure if that's my number one drive, which seems to be very alpha like. As I said, I'm just not a huge party monger, and I hate people who do drugs just for the sake of it... which doesn't seem very alpha-like. I don't follow public holidays (I'm more Gamma baout them). I LOVE trolling people, and my views tend to be very pessimistic (which Alpha seems to avoid). I am not short-term (I discuss this better in the gamma section). In a way, Alphas seem overly lazy, and I can't help but think that most of these guys are people who will stay home on Sundays watching football and being American, so to say.

      It does seem like America is very alpha though.
    • Beta - No. Just, no. I am not someone who likes power hierarchies (matter of fact, I HATE them). I am not a "pack member". I am not someone who interacts in big groups. I like when people have different perspectives than mine because that means that I can either teach someone something new, or that I will learn something, or that we'll have a good discussion. It just seems highly unlikely for me to be a Beta.
    • Gamma - I agree with the idea that long term should be more important than short term. I often live in the future, thinking about what it will be like. Right now, I see myself as a minimalistic grad student who is driving around in a car he will soon be able to fix because I've saved up for this scenario. I see myself being able to even BETTER attend these issues in the future. I am just much more future-driven than most people. I also relate to the whole "difficulty relating to emotional atmospheres connected to "special dates" such as public holidays.", and the being driven to be in small groups (although not as short as 3, I might say).

      I, however, HATE the idea of taking revenge on someone. I am just not someone who uses agression/violence to get my way. If I am in a discussion, I don't mean to raise my voice in a way to "beat" the other person (because I feel my body did the work, when I prefer my brain to do it). I don't really believe in loyalty either (anti-gamma)
    • Delta - I rejected the idea of being one initially, but last night I reread it and I was surprised at how much I related to it actually. The things that I relate to about being a Delta is the need to be independent (I extremely relate to this), the need to express my thoughts in a very rational way, preferring peace over emotion-loaded scenarios. I love new beginnings. I am very neutral-prone, and hate overly emotional displays. I hate being pressured.

      The only things I don't like about Delta is that I am very prone to give a hysterical laughter (which I think is more about my culture than the quadras). Deltas also seem very present driven, and as I've said, I am more future driven.


    So for the most part, it is a split between Alpha and Delta. This actually makes sense because I think that my romance style is one related to Caregiver-Infantile over Agressor-Victim... I just can't see how I could be happy with either one of the latter ones :\.

    Both Alpha and Delta are judicious (thank god, because I relate to this big time), but now I have to decide between "Merry <-> Serious" and "Democratic <-> Aristocratic"

    • Merry - Serious. Merry fits me to the T. It seems like serious is very imposing and impersonal, and I approach things in a more merry way. I specially relate to this:

      "They are inclined to propose (or impose) another conception of the situation ('look at it this way'). If they think something is done incorrectly, they will ask WHY it was done that way. When talking about optimums, they are inclined to do it subjectively ('optimum compared to what?')."

      Which I get annoying about, because I spend a lot of time going "but why?" and so haha. Over all, there wasn't anything about serious that I could relate to.
    • Aristocratic - Democratic. Democratic seems to be more likely. I tend to look at things in a more "case by case" thing, and while I do like a VERY general truth, I know this is rarely the situation, ESPECIALLY with people. I believe the individual should be judged, not the group (Reason why I hate people going "All chinese people are...", "You're a Mexican, does that mean that you..." and so. As I have said in the part about Delta, I am much more independent-minded, which seems to go against the idea of Aristocratic



    So I'm Judicious, Merry and Democratic.... wait what? Deltas are Aristocratic?! How the hell is:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristocratic
    Example: feeling energized by identification with a group, as in a team within a company, sports team, and the like; and seeing others foremost through the prism of the other teams they belong to.
    related to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Delta
    Delta types have the philosophy that they will have to rely on their own industriousness to achieve their goals rather than on luck, speculation, group effort, or strong leadership.
    o.O? When I was reading Democratic/Aristocratic, it seemed like Demo was going to be for Deltas, but I am surprised about this because it seems like a contradiction.

    Is there a better website than wikisocion that defines Democratic/Aristocratic, as well as Merry/Serious? I think these two dichotomies will help me a lot.

    Phew... that was a long post. Sorry about boring you all .

    Also, a new VI pic, if it helps. This was taken minutes before I posted this:

    Last edited by Phthalate; 08-17-2011 at 08:09 PM.
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    First impression is alpha but I can be wrong.

    Big plus for keeping your space not messy. Is that dog dead ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    First impression is alpha but I can be wrong.

    Big plus for keeping your space not messy. Is that dog dead ?
    Wait what? Not messy? ... sarcastic much?

    Quote Originally Posted by CILi View Post
    Saw the vid.

    Read the thread.

    Read your last post.

    Feelin' ILE-Ti.
    Vid? o.O huh?



    P.S. Yes, Luna is very much alive


    P.S2.: I am going over being an ILE again, which seems like the most likely scenario now. I will also go about reading IEE, just to double check.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    First impression is alpha but I can be wrong.

    Big plus for keeping your space not messy. Is that dog dead ?
    Wait what? Not messy? ... sarcastic much?
    No, not at all, I just looked at the photo of your place and thought "this guy really knows how to keep his room clutter free."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
    Hahaha yeah. The possibility of being a SLI arised from a lot of things in the description that actually did seem to have a lot of sense. The reason why I started considering it was that I was speaking about Hemoglobin, and she gave me a very simple procedure that made a hell of a lot of sense (just the way I like it). Go over the quadras and pick the one that fits you. Then go over the temperaments, and pick the one that fits you too. Look at the romance styles, some dichotomies and there you have it.
    IMO this is a very bad way of choosing types. It ignores a lot of mistakes and oversimplifications oneself could do. It resembles too much choosing a MBTI type from dichotomies, with all those known problems.

    For example, you start with a quadra. But, are types members of quadras or are quadras formed with types? It's not the same. If type is a subcategory it could work, but is it? I don't think so. More likely quadras are a "collection" or common aspects shared by its members (valued funcions).

    A small misunderstanding in which are the core values of a cuadra will make you rejecting all its four members. Very easy to fall in this trap. I could identify gammas with LIEs and as a "former" INTP, a too goal oriented homeland did not sound like my country. But wait. All types are "goal oriented" in certain way, but with different goals and motivations...

    My opinion is that general characteristics like quadra, temperament, romance styles, etc should be used only as clues or confirmators, never as a starting point.

    Looking over the dichotomies now too, my preferrence towards a P lifestyle seems to indicate Dynamic > Static already, which I agree with.
    Dynamic Vs Static is not related with p/j temperament. It's a different question. ILEs (p) and LIIs (j) are static; ILIs(p) and LIEs (j) are dynamic. It depends on youe ego functions; if they're dynamic then you're a dynamic type, etc. The upper link could serve as a starting point, although this is a tricky concept.

    So I'm an IP, good. That leads me to think that I'm ILI, SLI, IEI and SEI. Let's go over the quadras then:
    Imo you've more energy than the average IP. I would not reject EP simply due to a lack of interest in socialization. There're many examples of non-social EPs. Its depends on what is interesting for you in order to spend your energy. Anyway I do not want to bias you and I insist these things should not be used as a starting point.

    Alpha - There are a LOT of things here which I relate to, but then others I don't relate to drastically. I like theoretical stuff (ffs, I'm in a typology forum trying to get my type, which won't really change anything about lifestyle, but I still find it fun). I like thought-consistency. I like telling stories in detail because it gives people a better idea of what I'm talking about. I am also a very "hands-on" person, reason why I preferred to take a practical field (engineering) over one mostly theoretical (math/physics). I go off on tangents constantly too.
    Well I do not think that being an Engineer makes you "hands on". An engineer usually does not build by himself his creations.

    I like positive atmospheres, but I'm not sure if that's my number one drive, which seems to be very alpha like. As I said, I'm just not a huge party monger, and I hate people who do drugs just for the sake of it... which doesn't seem very alpha-like. I don't follow public holidays (I'm more Gamma baout them). I LOVE trolling people, and my views tend to be very pessimistic (which Alpha seems to avoid). I am not short-term (I discuss this better in the gamma section). In a way, Alphas seem overly lazy, and I can't help but think that most of these guys are people who will stay home on Sundays watching football and being American, so to say.
    Merrys (alphas and betas) as Fe users will externally project their optimism when available in a more loudy way, but they're not necessarily more optimistic by default.

    I am not someone who likes power hierarchies (matter of fact, I HATE them). I am not a "pack member". I am not someone who interacts in big groups. I like when people have different perspectives than mine because that means that I can either teach someone something new, or that I will learn something, or that we'll have a good discussion. It just seems highly unlikely for me to be a Beta.
    I agree that you do not seem to be a beta, but it would be more correct to say they're "power conscious" than "power liking". Not always.

    I agree with the idea that long term should be more important than short term. I often live in the future, thinking about what it will be like. Right now, I see myself as a minimalistic grad student who is driving around in a car he will soon be able to fix because I've saved up for this scenario. I see myself being able to even BETTER attend these issues in the future. I am just much more future-driven than most people. I also relate to the whole "difficulty relating to emotional atmospheres connected to "special dates" such as public holidays.", and the being driven to be in small groups (although not as short as 3, I might say).
    Similarly, gammas (as betas) as Ni valuers are "future conscious" but not necessarily will act for "mastering future". It's usually true for LIEs but not always for ILIs. An average LII will work for future more than an average ILI despite the last could see "further". It's linked with the process/result dichotomy. Result types know better what they want and will act accordingly.

    I, however, HATE the idea of taking revenge on someone. I am just not someone who uses agression/violence to get my way. If I am in a discussion, I don't mean to raise my voice in a way to "beat" the other person (because I feel my body did the work, when I prefer my brain to do it). I don't really believe in loyalty either (anti-gamma)
    Why do you relate agression/violence with gammas?

    When you say you don't believe in loyalty, you mean you don't believe in the concept (therefore it's not important for you) or you don't trust other people?

    In my personal case, it's important for me. I call it reciprocity. I behave with others accordingly to how they behave with me. But not many people respect this principle, not many people are trustworthy...

    This comes with Fi valuing, apparently. Deltas share this trait.

    [*]Delta - I rejected the idea of being one initially, but last night I reread it and I was surprised at how much I related to it actually. The things that I relate to about being a Delta is the need to be independent (I extremely relate to this), the need to express my thoughts in a very rational way, preferring peace over emotion-loaded scenarios. I love new beginnings. I am very neutral-prone, and hate overly emotional displays. I hate being pressured.
    Bolded seems to suggest Fi.


    Merry - Serious. Merry fits me to the T. It seems like serious is very imposing and impersonal, and I approach things in a more merry way.
    Wikisocion definitions of merry/serious sounds to me too exaggerated. Merry is simply valuing; serious is valuing.

    So I'm Judicious, Merry and Democratic.... wait what? Deltas are Aristocratic?! How the hell is:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristocratic
    Example: feeling energized by identification with a group, as in a team within a company, sports team, and the like; and seeing others foremost through the prism of the other teams they belong to.

    related to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Delta
    Delta types have the philosophy that they will have to rely on their own industriousness to achieve their goals rather than on luck, speculation, group effort, or strong leadership.
    o.O? When I was reading Democratic/Aristocratic, it seemed like Demo was going to be for Deltas, but I am surprised about this because it seems like a contradiction.
    The Aristocractic one speaks about the more pronounced need of these egos for putting higher empashis in not see themselves (and others) as isolated membes but as a part of "something bigger", whatever they consider it. The Delta one suggests valuing, thinking they should solve their problems in a pragmatical (realistic) and individual way.

    It's not necessarily contradictory, like a tribal member who should hunt a dangerous animal without help for becoming a valued member of the society (this is only an analogy, please nobody get offended).

    Is there a better website than wikisocion that defines Democratic/Aristocratic, as well as Merry/Serious? I think these two dichotomies will help me a lot.
    Yeah as happens with all Reinin dichotomies, their definitions are not very well developed. My best advice: go to the core (the main cause) of the dichotomy when possible, like Merry as valuing, and make your own deductions from these causes. I cannot help with other sources, sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
    Hahaha yeah. The possibility of being a SLI arised from a lot of things in the description that actually did seem to have a lot of sense. The reason why I started considering it was that I was speaking about Hemoglobin, and she gave me a very simple procedure that made a hell of a lot of sense (just the way I like it). Go over the quadras and pick the one that fits you. Then go over the temperaments, and pick the one that fits you too. Look at the romance styles, some dichotomies and there you have it.
    IMO this is a very bad way of choosing types. It ignores a lot of mistakes and oversimplifications oneself could do. It resembles too much choosing a MBTI type from dichotomies, with all those known problems.

    For example, you start with a quadra. But, are types members of quadras or are quadras formed with types? It's not the same. If type is a subcategory it could work, but is it? I don't think so. More likely quadras are a "collection" or common aspects shared by its members (valued funcions).

    A small misunderstanding in which are the core values of a cuadra will make you rejecting all its four members. Very easy to fall in this trap. I could identify gammas with LIEs and as a "former" INTP, a too goal oriented homeland did not sound like my country. But wait. All types are "goal oriented" in certain way, but with different goals and motivations...

    My opinion is that general characteristics like quadra, temperament, romance styles, etc should be used only as clues or confirmators, never as a starting point.
    Makes sense... but I DO need a starting point you know? Haha. But I completely understand you, to be honest. This actually led me before to think "Well, I sort of identify with Gamma, but I don't really identify with ANY type, what gives?"

    My first approach was to create a Excel Spreadsheet and analyze EACH function and if I related to it. I would make "Do I relate to how an ESFp uses Ti?" for example, and give a color to the cell to identify the preference and the strength to it. This was going to take time, and I got bored with this approach a couple of hours into it.

    Second one was taking tests... yeah that didn't end well.

    Then I tried going over the dichotomies, and I found myself relating to types that don't exist. For example, I would say that I'm Merry yet Aristrocratic, which didn't make sense (This wasn't the case, but I'm too lazy to remember which ones it was)

    So I've been bouncing around different ways to go about identifying my socionics. You can understand my frustration that none of them is working.


    Dynamic Vs Static is not related with p/j temperament. It's a different question. ILEs (p) and LIIs (j) are static; ILIs(p) and LIEs (j) are dynamic. It depends on youe ego functions; if they're dynamic then you're a dynamic type, etc. The upper link could serve as a starting point, although this is a tricky concept.
    Been there, done that. I know JCF-P doesn't equate dynamic and so. I still relate to Dynamic more than I relate to Static.



    Imo you've more energy than the average IP. I would not reject EP simply due to a lack of interest in socialization. There're many examples of non-social EPs. Its depends on what is interesting for you in order to spend your energy. Anyway I do not want to bias you and I insist these things should not be used as a starting point.
    I need to talk with more IPs, given the case. It's not necessarily the social part altogether, it's just that I'm more willing to spend a lot of time doing nothing than the average EP.


    Well I do not think that being an Engineer makes you "hands on". An engineer usually does not build by himself his creations.
    It is for my field, which is going to the field and conducting experiments, then analyze the results. I prefer this over a "modeling" approach, which relies on checking various literature review and so. That is boring and I'm likely to get distracted while "reading". I prefer to go about my own way and work in the field than just sitting behind a computer typing shit.


    Merrys (alphas and betas) as Fe users will externally project their optimism when available in a more loudy way, but they're not necessarily more optimistic by default.
    I gotcha. I didn't mean it in that way I guess. What I'm trying to say is that I don't abide by the whole "If you have nothing good about a person to say, don't say anything at all". If something is wrong, or a person is fucking up, I am VERY likely to call them out on it. The closer they are to me, the more likely I will do so.


    I agree that you do not seem to be a beta, but it would be more correct to say they're "power conscious" than "power liking". Not always.
    Either way, I just don't see hierarchies as being necessary for progress so to say.



    Similarly, gammas (as betas) as Ni valuers are "future conscious" but not necessarily will act for "mastering future". It's usually true for LIEs but not always for ILIs. An average LII will work for future more than an average ILI despite the last could see "further". It's linked with the process/result dichotomy. Result types know better what they want and will act accordingly.
    I have read the wikisocion on process/result, and I relate (STRONGLY) to result. I can see myself doing "process" only when I am forcing myself to do so. Multitasking, starting at random points, getting random snippets here and there... Definitely a "Result" guy (further proof that I'm not ILI/ILE :\).



    Why do you relate agression/violence with gammas?
    for the most part. I don't appreciate it, and seems to be very imposing-prone. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

    When you say you don't believe in loyalty, you mean you don't believe in the concept (therefore it's not important for you) or you don't trust other people?

    In my personal case, it's important for me. I call it reciprocity. I behave with others accordingly to how they behave with me. But not many people respect this principle, not many people are trustworthy...

    This comes with Fi valuing, apparently. Deltas share this trait.
    These really aren't independent of one another. You might want to expand on this question.

    The closest thing I can think about loyalty is that one of my biggest ways of doing things (morality-wise) is "Don't do unto others as you wouldn't wish to be done unto you". I don't betray people because I wouldn't like to be betrayed, but in this aspect, I am more driven towards what is good for me, not necessarily other people.


    [quote]


    Wikisocion definitions of merry/serious sounds to me too exaggerated. Merry is simply valuing; serious is valuing.

    The Aristocractic one speaks about the more pronounced need of these egos for putting higher empashis in not see themselves (and others) as isolated membes but as a part of "something bigger", whatever they consider it. The Delta one suggests valuing, thinking they should solve their problems in a pragmatical (realistic) and individual way.

    It's not necessarily contradictory, like a tribal member who should hunt a dangerous animal without help for becoming a valued member of the society (this is only an analogy, please nobody get offended).

    Is there a better website than wikisocion that defines Democratic/Aristocratic, as well as Merry/Serious? I think these two dichotomies will help me a lot.
    Yeah as happens with all Reinin dichotomies, their definitions are not very well developed. My best advice: go to the core (the main cause) of the dichotomy when possible, like Merry as valuing, and make your own deductions from these causes. I cannot help with other sources, sorry.

    I need to read up somewhere else about this dichotomies then, because I'm not sure which one I value most, given the case... I'll check back with you about this


    Thank you so much for your insight. This is VERY helpful .
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    Quote Originally Posted by CILi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post

    Vid? o.O huh?
    Come to think of it... pretty likely might've been somebody else's.

    Be identicals, or something.
    Heh I'm curious. What guy were you talking about?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
    need to talk with more IPs, given the case. It's not necessarily the social part altogether, it's just that I'm more willing to spend a lot of time doing nothing than the average EP.
    I think Ne dominants have a tendency in doing something if it interests them, and if there's nothing that interests them they tend to loose motivation in participation, so to speak.
    I know of one ILE who has been living off of the money they won from a legal case for the past four years and seems to have no interest in getting a job in the mean time.

    I think Ip types often want to do things but need Ne or Se for motivation

    It is for my field, which is going to the field and conducting experiments, then analyze the results. I prefer this over a "modeling" approach, which relies on checking various literature review and so. That is boring and I'm likely to get distracted while "reading". I prefer to go about my own way and work in the field than just sitting behind a computer typing shit.
    This points more to a preference in Ti IMU

    I gotcha. I didn't mean it in that way I guess. What I'm trying to say is that I don't abide by the whole "If you have nothing good about a person to say, don't say anything at all". If something is wrong, or a person is fucking up, I am VERY likely to call them out on it. The closer they are to me, the more likely I will do so.
    As does this. Fi PoLR's don't tend to filter how (in)sensitive they're being, they focus on their Ti. They tend to see it as just "Pointing out the truth" sort of logic, which they don't believe that anyone should take offense at.

    With Fe PoLR's, particularly in the case of ILI's, I get the impression that they're likely to come across as crude but it's because they don't like or care about the individuals in questions. They seem to be more aware of how they're affecting the people in question, compared to Fi PoLR's who may hurt or offend someone and not realize they are
    EII INFj
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
    Been there, done that. I know JCF-P doesn't equate dynamic and so. I still relate to Dynamic more than I relate to Static.
    Neither JCF-P/J nor Soc-p/j. That's the question. If you're really dynamic and an NT, you have to be a gamma user. But as the concept is tricky, don't make too strong conclusions about it. Long term thinking does not equal to dynamic regardless it seems so.

    I need to talk with more IPs, given the case. It's not necessarily the social part altogether, it's just that I'm more willing to spend a lot of time doing nothing than the average EP.
    Marie answered well to this question.

    It is for my field, which is going to the field and conducting experiments, then analyze the results. I prefer this over a "modeling" approach, which relies on checking various literature review and so. That is boring and I'm likely to get distracted while "reading". I prefer to go about my own way and work in the field than just sitting behind a computer typing shit.
    Hahaha. Well this could be seem from multiple point of views. It could suggest EP impulsiveness (getting bored if you can't "feel" what you're doing). Also process over result (I'll explain later) what would agree with ILE; and it could simply suggest the 6 wing in enneagram.

    I like modeling, but not seen as "vacuum work" but as if you made a model that works, it feels like if you have the whole knowledge about it. You've mastered the issue so you've now "complete power" over it, a power which will later have implications in the real work...

    I do not agree with Marie that this necessarily points to Ti because Ti users tend to like modeling (like Jung, IEI; Augusta, ILE; etc.).

    I gotcha. I didn't mean it in that way I guess. What I'm trying to say is that I don't abide by the whole "If you have nothing good about a person to say, don't say anything at all". If something is wrong, or a person is fucking up, I am VERY likely to call them out on it. The closer they are to me, the more likely I will do so.
    This is not exactly where I was going, but globally it sounds a bit more TiFe than TeFi.

    Either way, I just don't see hierarchies as being necessary for progress so to say.
    Hierarchies=structured power. It would be a Se+Ti combination (beta), not Se alone, so it does not discard gamma.

    Se is like being aware of the "energy" you have or not (needed) for achieving something. If you value it, you aren't simply aware, but also has ambitions about it when you lack, and enjoy it when you have.

    You could still dislike hierarchies if you see them as inefficient or as an obstacle for gaining such "energy"...

    Wouldn't you like to have god-like powers?

    I have read the wikisocion on process/result, and I relate (STRONGLY) to result. I can see myself doing "process" only when I am forcing myself to do so. Multitasking, starting at random points, getting random snippets here and there... Definitely a "Result" guy (further proof that I'm not ILI/ILE :\).
    Don't focus on concrete properties of the two side of the dichotomy, like "I'm the opposite of this aspect so I cannot be". As happens with all Reinin ones, I'll recommend going to the core, the essence. They're usually not good conceptualized in the descriptions. Process does not equal to "goal-less". These users can have as strong goals as result types.

    If I understood this one properly, process types are/feel "linked" to how they're doing things, so to speak, whereas result types are much more detached from how they're doing things (compatatively). Result types focus mainly in "what" and not in "how", so they have less problems for manipulating "how" in order to achieve "what". For process types, "how" is more relevant than "what". They will not ignore "how" so easily in order to obtain "what", because for them the proper "what" emerges form the proper "how".

    Both of them have advantages and disadvantages. Although result sounds like the ultimate goal-seeker, being less skillfull in the "how" aspect, they will have more problems for developing the appropiate method that materializes their goals, where they can become obstinated. Process types will be more flexible in "what" and could modify it if they see that their methods go nowhere.


    The closest thing I can think about loyalty is that one of my biggest ways of doing things (morality-wise) is "Don't do unto others as you wouldn't wish to be done unto you". I don't betray people because I wouldn't like to be betrayed, but in this aspect, I am more driven towards what is good for me, not necessarily other people.
    Well everybody is driven towards what is more or less good for themselves.
    Te question of "loyalty" is not (only) for me being emphatic in the way you pointed but the sense of "duty" with those people who share a subjective bond with you. Like "my friend helped me, therefore I feel I must help him/her at least in a proportional way. I'll try, in a reasonable way of course".

    I'm not sure if when you spoke about loyalty you spoke about the same idea, and in which terms you said you don't believe in it.
    Last edited by ssss; 08-20-2011 at 02:52 PM.

  37. #37
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    I was just going to reply to this... and now he's gone QQ

    Anybody else has some more input?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
    Anybody else has some more input?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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