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Thread: Socionic type and behaviour

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    Default Socionic type and behaviour.

    Can you get dumb LII and IEI's? Smart ESE's and SEE's? How about wimpy SLE's and tough EII's?

    As an example: a poor LII whose family has not been able to provide him with an education vs. upper middle class ESE who studies diligently and gets good grades.

    SLE priests and saints? SEI engineers? LIE artists?

    Is any of this possible?

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    yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes

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    Quote Originally Posted by goggles View Post
    Can you get dumb LII and IEI's? Smart ESE's and SEE's? How about wimpy SLE's and tough EII's?
    Yes to all.

    As an example: a poor LII whose family has not been able to provide him with an education vs. upper middle class ESE who studies diligently and gets good grades.
    Doesn't mean the LII is stupid, just without some credentials.

    SLE priests and saints? SEI engineers? LIE artists?

    Is any of this possible?
    Yes to all, easily.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by goggles View Post
    Can you get dumb LII and IEI's? Smart ESE's and SEE's? How about wimpy SLE's and tough EII's?

    As an example: a poor LII whose family has not been able to provide him with an education vs. upper middle class ESE who studies diligently and gets good grades.

    SLE priests and saints? SEI engineers? LIE artists?

    Is any of this possible?
    In principle the types only refer to the relative strengths and preferences of function as they appear within the individual. Across a population generalisations can be made, in that LII's will on average be more adept in Ti than an SEE. However these predictions cannot reliably be made on an individual scale, as each person has their own inherent potential and level of development, as well as the influences of the immediate environment.
    Last edited by somavision; 08-05-2011 at 02:58 PM.
    IEE-Ne

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    Yeah, although on average the stereo types fit, I have for example met 2 SEE who did university.

    Though they still did not really make an extraordinarly intelligent impression, they have proven they were smart. So I guess the impression you get is always according to stereotype, but the reality is sometimes different.

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    I am an engineer. A biological one at that, but still. I have taken all the required general education courses for an engineer at my school. I would definitely not enjoy doing the work a Mechanical Engineer would do, with all that nasty Mechanics, but if you put your mind to your work, you can do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Kam View Post
    I am an engineer. A biological one at that, but still. I have taken all the required general education courses for an engineer at my school. I would definitely not enjoy doing the work a Mechanical Engineer would do, with all that nasty Mechanics, but if you put your mind to your work, you can do it.
    Why biology?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Director Kam View Post
    I am an engineer. A biological one at that, but still. I have taken all the required general education courses for an engineer at my school. I would definitely not enjoy doing the work a Mechanical Engineer would do, with all that nasty Mechanics, but if you put your mind to your work, you can do it.
    Why biology?
    Because it has future and you can always try to get a job in the healthcare industry which never dies out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goggles View Post
    Can you get dumb LII and IEI's? Smart ESE's and SEE's? How about wimpy SLE's and tough EII's?
    Yes, yes, yes, definitely, maybe, maybe.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Actually, let me correct one bit...

    Smart ESE's

    THAT'S A BINGO!
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaris View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post

    Why biology?
    Because it has future and you can always try to get a job in the healthcare industry which never dies out.
    QFE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaris View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post

    Why biology?
    Because it has future and you can always try to get a job in the healthcare industry which never dies out.
    This is all true, but I barely even think about that. The main reason I have stuck to it is because it amazes me. I was lucky that I did not end up in the software engineering profession, which was where I was headed. Molecular biology is just mind-blowing and I am always looking for books on biochemistry, biotechnology, and molecular biology which are simple enough to understand, without the meat taken out.
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    SLEs are wimpy in many ways. EIIs are tough in many ways, especially because "Se" doesn't relate to aggression anyway.

    A dumb IEI kinda doesn't make sense though, only because IEIs are stereotypically good at every internal function there is.... making a dumb IEI, a sort of oxymoron. (Ni/Ne/Fi & Fe) And raw intelligence is very internal.

    My ESE mom is smart. Most SEEs I know are smart....

    ENTjs are incredibly good artists, just like IEIs. If they weren't- they wouldn't be able to supervise IEIs effectively. (As supervisor has none of your weaknesses, but all of your strengths)

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    I meant ILI, intp. My mistake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goggles View Post
    Can you get dumb LII and IEI's? Smart ESE's and SEE's? How about wimpy SLE's and tough EII's?

    As an example: a poor LII whose family has not been able to provide him with an education vs. upper middle class ESE who studies diligently and gets good grades.

    SLE priests and saints? SEI engineers? LIE artists?

    Is any of this possible?
    Is "dumb" and "wimpy" a behavior?

    "Poor" most certainly is not a behavior.

    LOL

    You can get an EII who loves people (still a humanist) who desperately wants a good relationship, but is hung over on a dead beet dad who left her when she was young and who doesn't want to emotionally connect with her and she's a teacher (as some EII are), but because of her circumstances she's fighting a battle within herself to have close inter-circle relationships, yet she still loves and defends humanity at large. She can be extra emotional and touchy, but not ever unloving of human kind.

    Another EII may come from a poor family and not have access to much material wealth, but EII don't care about such things anyway because they are practical and she still loves people.

    Another EII may come from a rich family, but she loves people anyway and uses her resources as passionately as she can for causes close to her heart.

    The love for human kind never ends, the resources dictate what you can do and how far you can reach. Other emotions, arising out of circumstances one can't control that you would think may counter the person's innateness (in this case Humanism) results in less activity due to more depression that locks the person in and away from actions that are related to type.

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    I've love to meet an ESE astrophysicist

    this is one apparently of the stereotype-breaking priest SLEs, talking about how to prepare and deliver confessions:




    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    ... I have for example met 2 SEE who did university.
    the entire university? jeez ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    ... I have for example met 2 SEE who did university.
    the entire university? jeez ...
    for such a biased man like me, this was a pretty big surprise. please let me.

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    I'm an EII and I think most people would consider me somewhat touhg.. whatever you mean by that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    ... I have for example met 2 SEE who did university.
    the entire university? jeez ...


    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    SLEs are wimpy in many ways. EIIs are tough in many ways, especially because "Se" doesn't relate to aggression anyway.
    Certainly

    I know a Ti-SLE who's really physically present, but has some big times of feeling down and/or scattered...

    The EIIs I know seem to have this sense of peace and stability to them, some type of eye-of-the-hurricane kinda thing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by goggles View Post
    I meant ILI, intp. My mistake.
    This might seem odd, but the less I infer things from other people's behavior, the smarter I get in social interaction. It's like I just accept people and they appreciate it. Of course, this can be bad sometimes if I end up accepting something harmful, but it doesn't happen that often. I don't think most people understand how easily they let someone else's mental state affect theirs and make a situation a lot worse then it could have been had they not. But maybe that's just how Americans tend to act.

    I'm probably not that smart with people in general because I don't find it easy. But with engineering and science type stuff I'm pretty good at figuring that stuff out and not making too many mistakes. But I feel like that's just because of the time I put into it too and then it bugs me when people think I'm smart and I think you could do all this too, you just don't care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZookeeperBoy View Post
    I'm an EII and I think most people would consider me somewhat touhg.. whatever you mean by that.
    i bet i could kick your ass ;P

    wanna go, punk?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZookeeperBoy View Post
    I'm an EII and I think most people would consider me somewhat touhg.. whatever you mean by that.
    Tough for infj maybe.

    Otherwise not so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    SLEs are wimpy in many ways.
    yes this is very funny indeed.

    My SLE cousin used to be really scared in the dark and had turned the light on when going to sleep still at an old age.

    An SLE colleague was bouncer in his spare time, but afraid of all the stuff we did when we went on a mountaineering beginners trip with colleagues.

    An SLE girl I know needs to be picked up every morning cause she's scared cycling in dusk to her job.

    Though all these SLE's are really at ease and 'though' when dealing with people in normal situations. They are all very loud and don't back off.

    SLE's remind me of elephants, they are impressive and don't back off, yet very scared of mice.

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    this is one apparently of the stereotype-breaking priest SLEs, talking about how to prepare and deliver confessions:
    ESTp priest is a pretty powerful archetype, imo. thunder preaches about sin and punishment, ftw.

    Clancy Brown in Carnivale (2:25 and forward):


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    Quote Originally Posted by NewBorn STAR View Post

    Tough for infj maybe.

    Otherwise not so much.
    Compared to you no one's tough

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Doesn't mean the LII is stupid, just without some credentials.
    I wish I would see more debasing of universities as some objective indicator of 'intelligence' or competence, but alas...
    Quote Originally Posted by Director Kam View Post
    I am an engineer. A biological one at that, but still. I have taken all the required general education courses for an engineer at my school. I would definitely not enjoy doing the work a Mechanical Engineer would do, with all that nasty Mechanics, but if you put your mind to your work, you can do it.
    You mean you're a BIOENGINEER? Hell yeahhh when are you going to give us superhuman powers


    @OP; What does intelligent mean? I hate to throw a curve ball into the discussion like this, but I think the disparity in meaning in this topic is great enough for this to be a concern, and so I ask of you a few actions and adjectives. To give a few I can think of to pick from, we have comprehension speed, adaptability, information retention, competent application of concepts and so on.

    If we are to take that entire blob of ideas and call them intelligent, all types are foundationally intelligent with regards to their respective elements. So far as their elements are concerned, I'm sure they can fulfill those roles, and our elements can be concerned with a great number of overlapping things depending the circumstances around which we learn and are introduced to them.
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    I am confident, fierce, tough, stick up for what I believe in, fight for the rights of things/causes I like. This is all external though. And, non of it is associated with Se. It's mostly Strategic and Declaring that produces these results; other then that, I'm a softy. Things hurt me very quickly. When my relations even so much as pretend they will cut us off, I get emotional and sensitive about them. I feel for people and can wager a war for moral victory. At the same time, love, nurture, and care for kids and people, and each one, I will make myself out to fit them, by molding myself to their personality, like a well made glove. I cry easily, I over-react way too easily out of sensitive emotions; I'm emotional and rational at the same time. My emotions always have a source of reference; they don't just arise out of a reaction; they have a source and they can be pointed out precisely.

    Otherwise, I'm funny, fun loving, caring, cooking, nurturing, overprotective, etc.

    Odd of the EII.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 08-10-2011 at 06:43 AM.

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    Socionics behavior, eh? I'll tell you a little about socionics behavior....

    First of all you got your ratty Fe women. You know what they do? All they do is stand around and agree about shit. That's right, they agree about shit. Ervel says, "oh the weather's nice today!" and I tell you, you could have a mother fucking tornado right outside the window and an Fe women would agree with the bitch as easily as a toddler agrees with candy for dinner! They see out of their assholes, and their assholes are wearing sense-proof goggles that only let in the expression on another person's face. They also don't give a fuck about what they do so long as it's socially acceptable. If sitting around all day in a fucking mansion, thinking about your money is the thing to do, well that's what they do. If dressing up like a whore and lounging around in a mall is the thing to do, well that's what they do! Simple as that.

    Then you got your Tis. Now these guys sure know how to spend a lot of time accomplishing nothing! These guys are the kind to find a nice hole to crawl into, map out all their brilliant ideas on paper, and do jack shit with them. They'll fucking let them rot in that God damned cave before they thought of - what an idea! - getting the fuckers published! Sheesh! Who woulda thought? Problem is, these guys are pussies. They got their theories, and they got their logic and rational and alllll of that other shit, but they don't know jack about how the real world is, and they don't have to balls to approach it.

    Next you got your Nes. Now these little shits are insane. I swear to God if I found a chicken egg and told an Ne he couldn't make a cat hatch from it, he'd spend his whole God damned life figuring out how to prove me wrong. And the craziest thing is, he'd probably succeed! These fuckers are the reason you dickwad kids can make bombs out of potatoes and underwear! These dickwads invented the fucking atom bomb! You know Einstein? He may have been smart but he was a dick! Ahh who am I kidding. All I got is some psychology theory and the only people who take it seriously are those dictator-loving Russian freaks with shitty sex lives, and they don't even follow the right theory! At least Einstein made something useful! That little fuck had hair too!

    Ses - there's not much one can say about Ses other than, they like sex. They'll have sex with anybody or anything, and that isn't an exaggeration.

    Sis are a little more intelligent in that they only have to fuck someone once to be satisfied, because they'll never fucking forget it - pun intended. They're fucking psychotic when they're worried though. Telling me how they're worried their dog is spying on them for the government and things of the like. Never met a more unintentionally funny person. I tell you, it was hard healing them, because they were so damn funny I just didn't want to.

    I just got a phone call from Gandhi, so I'll talk to you boneheads later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    ESTp priest is a pretty powerful archetype, imo. thunder preaches about sin and punishment, ftw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Jung View Post
    Socionics behavior, eh? I'll tell you a little about socionics behavior....

    First of all you got your ratty Fe women. You know what they do? All they do is stand around and agree about shit. That's right, they agree about shit. Ervel says, "oh the weather's nice today!" and I tell you, you could have a mother fucking tornado right outside the window and an Fe women would agree with the bitch as easily as a toddler agrees with candy for dinner! They see out of their assholes, and their assholes are wearing sense-proof goggles that only let in the expression on another person's face. They also don't give a fuck about what they do so long as it's socially acceptable. If sitting around all day in a fucking mansion, thinking about your money is the thing to do, well that's what they do. If dressing up like a whore and lounging around in a mall is the thing to do, well that's what they do! Simple as that.

    Then you got your Tis. Now these guys sure know how to spend a lot of time accomplishing nothing! These guys are the kind to find a nice hole to crawl into, map out all their brilliant ideas on paper, and do jack shit with them. They'll fucking let them rot in that God damned cave before they thought of - what an idea! - getting the fuckers published! Sheesh! Who woulda thought? Problem is, these guys are pussies. They got their theories, and they got their logic and rational and alllll of that other shit, but they don't know jack about how the real world is, and they don't have to balls to approach it.

    Next you got your Nes. Now these little shits are insane. I swear to God if I found a chicken egg and told an Ne he couldn't make a cat hatch from it, he'd spend his whole God damned life figuring out how to prove me wrong. And the craziest thing is, he'd probably succeed! These fuckers are the reason you dickwad kids can make bombs out of potatoes and underwear! These dickwads invented the fucking atom bomb! You know Einstein? He may have been smart but he was a dick! Ahh who am I kidding. All I got is some psychology theory and the only people who take it seriously are those dictator-loving Russian freaks with shitty sex lives, and they don't even follow the right theory! At least Einstein made something useful! That little fuck had hair too!

    Ses - there's not much one can say about Ses other than, they like sex. They'll have sex with anybody or anything, and that isn't an exaggeration.

    Sis are a little more intelligent in that they only have to fuck someone once to be satisfied, because they'll never fucking forget it - pun intended. They're fucking psychotic when they're worried though. Telling me how they're worried their dog is spying on them for the government and things of the like. Never met a more unintentionally funny person. I tell you, it was hard healing them, because they were so damn funny I just didn't want to.

    I just got a phone call from Gandhi, so I'll talk to you boneheads later.
    Tight! Tight! Tight! Yeah! Keep it coming! This is pure gold!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Jung View Post
    Socionics behavior, eh? I'll tell you a little about socionics behavior....

    First of all you got your ratty Fe women. You know what they do? All they do is stand around and agree about shit. That's right, they agree about shit. Ervel says, "oh the weather's nice today!" and I tell you, you could have a mother fucking tornado right outside the window and an Fe women would agree with the bitch as easily as a toddler agrees with candy for dinner! They see out of their assholes, and their assholes are wearing sense-proof goggles that only let in the expression on another person's face. They also don't give a fuck about what they do so long as it's socially acceptable. If sitting around all day in a fucking mansion, thinking about your money is the thing to do, well that's what they do. If dressing up like a whore and lounging around in a mall is the thing to do, well that's what they do! Simple as that.

    Then you got your Tis. Now these guys sure know how to spend a lot of time accomplishing nothing! These guys are the kind to find a nice hole to crawl into, map out all their brilliant ideas on paper, and do jack shit with them. They'll fucking let them rot in that God damned cave before they thought of - what an idea! - getting the fuckers published! Sheesh! Who woulda thought? Problem is, these guys are pussies. They got their theories, and they got their logic and rational and alllll of that other shit, but they don't know jack about how the real world is, and they don't have to balls to approach it.

    Next you got your Nes. Now these little shits are insane. I swear to God if I found a chicken egg and told an Ne he couldn't make a cat hatch from it, he'd spend his whole God damned life figuring out how to prove me wrong. And the craziest thing is, he'd probably succeed! These fuckers are the reason you dickwad kids can make bombs out of potatoes and underwear! These dickwads invented the fucking atom bomb! You know Einstein? He may have been smart but he was a dick! Ahh who am I kidding. All I got is some psychology theory and the only people who take it seriously are those dictator-loving Russian freaks with shitty sex lives, and they don't even follow the right theory! At least Einstein made something useful! That little fuck had hair too!

    Ses - there's not much one can say about Ses other than, they like sex. They'll have sex with anybody or anything, and that isn't an exaggeration.

    Sis are a little more intelligent in that they only have to fuck someone once to be satisfied, because they'll never fucking forget it - pun intended. They're fucking psychotic when they're worried though. Telling me how they're worried their dog is spying on them for the government and things of the like. Never met a more unintentionally funny person. I tell you, it was hard healing them, because they were so damn funny I just didn't want to.

    I just got a phone call from Gandhi, so I'll talk to you boneheads later.
    You're slipping, Jung, you left out Ni, Fi and Te.
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

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