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Thread: What types would you classify as merry or serious?

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    Default What types would you classify as merry or serious?

    In your opinion, what types would you classify as merry or serious, based on your own experience. You can classify them any way you want and you don't have to include every type if you don't want to or don't feel confident doing so (not enough experience).

    I will go first. And I don't care if you don't agree, I just want to hear your own opinion (or attempt to convey your experience through transmuting it into how you interpret Merry/Serious in the types) about Merry/Serious.

    Blatantly Merry
    Entertainment Merry
    ENFp
    Politically Merry
    ESFp
    Benevolently Merry
    ESFj
    Passionately Merry
    ENFj

    Wants to be Merry
    Attempts to be Merry
    ISFp
    Attempts to act Merry
    INFp
    Attempts to feel Merry
    INFj
    Attempts to produce Merry
    ISFj

    Blatantly Serious
    Critical about others intentions/behaviors/competence
    INTj
    Wanting to avoid economical and political ruin through their rewarding intellectual competency
    INTp
    Unabashed distrust in the reasoning or opinions of other people
    ISTj
    Wanting to avoid boredom of menial societal work through their rewarding practical competency
    ISTp

    Wants to be Serious
    Wishes to have their command of the environment (people included) mastered and rewarded for it
    ESTp
    Wishes to have their unique curiosity rewarded by society
    ENTp
    Wishes to gain security of community and prosperity of wealth
    ESTj
    Wishes to gain prosperity of wealth and security of political interest
    ENTj

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    How can Gammas and Deltas be Merry? Just wondering.
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    As far as Reinin's definition goes, the merry types value and serious types value .

    However as far as just the word merry and serious outside of this context, I honestly see all types as being either, quite frequently. Which is more or less to say that I often see one person as more serious under frequent context, and another person of the same type as being merry under their usual context, as far as pure behavior goes, and these definitions can very from being playful or silly, to being overly too mature or humorless. I think I see myself as being very serious underneath, but I can be pretty silly on the outside. I tend to want to treat people usually in a serious manner like they're just as serious as myself, especially once I get to know them and respect them.

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    You've turned ethical/logical into merry/serious. Was that intentional?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Kam View Post
    How can Gammas and Deltas be Merry? Just wondering.
    How can you expect me to give you the answer you seem to want when you won't even participate as I asked? Just wondering.

    Quote Originally Posted by poli View Post
    As far as Reinin's definition goes, the merry types value and serious types value .
    I know the Reinin definition and clearly disagree with him. But I didn't want this to end up being a criticism of what I've written, but rather others expressing their own opinion.

    However as far as just the word merry and serious outside of this context, I honestly see all types as being either, quite frequently. Which is more or less to say that I often see one person as more serious under frequent context, and another person of the same type as being merry under their usual context, as far as pure behavior goes, and these definitions can very from being playful or silly, to being overly too mature or humorless. I think I see myself as being very serious underneath, but I can be pretty silly on the outside. I tend to want to treat people usually in a serious manner like they're just as serious as myself, especially once I get to know them and respect them.
    Thanks. If you would like to attempt to express how you see some types displaying merry and serious, I would like to hear it.

    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    You've turned ethical/logical into merry/serious. Was that intentional?
    Since that's a simple question, to answer, I suppose I have. It was rather unintentional. Maybe my worldview of what should constitute the meaning of merry turns out to be Jungian feeling and serious as Jungian thinking. Perhaps in typing people I've relied on Jung to the point that it shows in my empirical type conclusions. But it seems absurd even theoretically that say an INTj as Ti-leading would be merry, whereas an ISTj would not (and then it is justified with quadra values which are too abstract for me to find them easily empirically discernible). And even in considering the eccentricities of socionics to Jung, the abstract construct of Ti is still to be removed from the feeling component.

    Now I would appreciate it if you participated. Please don't be concerned about criticism or others judging your socionics integrity-of-reason.

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    It sounds like your main objection to the "merry/serious" dichotomy is that in your opinion "merry" and "serious" aren't good descriptions of the types in question, and I agree with that. But I can appreciate that finding one word to express "values Ti/Fe" isn't easy. Most of the Reinin dichotomies are badly named, but you could say the same for the Jungian dichotomies (e.g. STs are the only ones with both tastebuds and brains, by the ordinary definitions of the words).

    Quote Originally Posted by Magna View Post
    But it seems absurd even theoretically that say an INTj as Ti-leading would be merry, whereas an ISTj would not (and then it is justified with quadra values which are too abstract for me to find them easily empirically discernible). And even in considering the eccentricities of socionics to Jung, the abstract construct of Ti is still to be removed from the feeling component
    Well, they're not. LSIs and LIIs, and all other Ti-valuing types are Reinin Merry.


    Since I never really thought of people as being "merry" apart from Santa Claus before I started reading about socionics, I find it difficult to divorce from the concept of "Fe-valuing". I think a better word might be "gregarious".


    EXEs = Blatantly and infectiously gregarious
    XLEs = Tries to be gregarious, with varying degrees of infectiousness

    XEEs = Blatantly and accidentally gregarious, but wants to be serious
    LXEs = Blatantly serious, sometimes accidentally gregarious as well

    XEIs = Inconsistently gregarious
    LXIs = Normally serious but gregarious when provoked

    XLIs = Is embarrassed when caught accidentally being gregarious
    EXIs = Immune to gregarious infection


    By "accidentally" I'm trying to capture some sort of ambivalence as to whether their gregariousness influences others' emotional states/the general atmosphere. These are massive generalisations though, I think these descriptions might work if you were to throw healthy, happy people of all types into a big party house with options for both loud dancing and quiet discussion, but in the workplace/classroom/grocery shopping/most situations where the tone is dictated by extrinsic factors, organising types by temporal gregariousness/seriousness is going to be pretty useless.
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    Your theory makes a lot more sense in reality than Reinin's does as it seems you at least took IE strengths into consideration
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magna View Post
    I know the Reinin definition and clearly disagree with him. But I didn't want this to end up being a criticism of what I've written, but rather others expressing their own opinion.
    Yeah, I read this http://forum.socionix.com/topic/3327...n-dichotomies/ and surprisingly every single EII one fits me (more than their opposites). So they don't seem too bad. They are classical Socionics too

    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    Your theory makes a lot more sense in reality than Reinin's does as it seems you at least took IE strengths into consideration
    Unvalued strengths are subconscious though, so it's basically like saying you would never notice them anyway. Yet it's weird, I notice both my and a lot and 'in theory' they're supposed to be opposites in the psyche. Usually what goes through my conscious mind is, if I don't value it, then its no need to waste time to talk about. I value and , so I feel the need to use them. I could never wrap my finger around the model A theory, when I read wikisocion and other descriptions. Thought it was being too specific to describe my style, like it needs some adjustments to work efficently.

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    Huh I guess it makes sense when people say Aushra's viewpoints were biased, and that they are overspecific to her own perception, just like anyone's is. If we all step back from each viewpoint and see what they all have in common, then there's no individual model anymore, but a collection of all of our observations where one isn't more valuable than the next. It could very well be true that someone might even value both ie. Fe and Fi and they need to chose when to use it, or that they emulate Fe while trying to use Fi, like a spray affect. I don't know how though, ie. I would use Ni while also using Ne, or if I've ever used Ni before, how it would differ in my own mind from Ne compared to others' perception of it. Or to say the same thing of Fe.

    Ti I actually feel like I may have used to a certain extent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poli View Post
    They are classical Socionics too
    probably, but debatable

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    The problem with your list is that the ITjs, who are Reinin Merry, are only serious when left to their own devices. They're -valuers because they light up or liven up when they're lavished with .

    Also, I guess most of the ENFps I know aren't merry at all. They're all very dry, and tend toward "soft", subtle displays of emotion as opposed to the self-parodying foghorn displays of egos.
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    Merry types - alpha-beta quadra.

    Serious types - gamma-delta quadra.

    Further modulation: D-N causes an upward shift in perceived seriousness and a corresponding downward shift in perceived merriness. Vice versa for C-H.

    Clarification: merry/serious should be prevalently used when trying to type someone in a social context, it's worthless when isolated and treated as an internal mental construct (which is not true for every reinin dichtomy - aristo / demo and neg / pos can be analyzed separatedly from social behavior).

    I think these descriptions might work if you were to throw healthy, happy people of all types into a big party house with options for both loud dancing and quiet discussion
    No, please no. You really think gamma SFs (and well, NTs for the matter too) don't like loud dancing? They like it more than Alpha NTs, usually. In fact the whole house partying scene can sometimes be terribly gamma, chock full of ESI and SEE.
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    Yeah, the stereotypical Alpha party is a pen and paper group or a bunch of friends sitting around drinking. We're a Judicious Quadra. Big and boisterous is def. a Decisive thing.

    EDIT

    Anyway, sorry Magna. I think we're derailing your thread. I think I understand what you're trying to do and it's a good idea
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I think these descriptions might work if you were to throw healthy, happy people of all types into a big party house with options for both loud dancing and quiet discussion
    No, please no. You really think gamma SFs (and well, NTs for the matter too) don't like loud dancing? They like it more than Alpha NTs, usually. In fact the whole house partying scene can sometimes be terribly gamma, chock full of ESI and SEE.
    No, by "options for both loud dancing and quiet discussion", I meant individuals could choose anything from a spectrum of atmospheres, not just having those two options. I think in reality it's more split along the lines of Se-valuing = loud/physical, Fe-valuing = large groups.
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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post

    No, please no. You really think gamma SFs (and well, NTs for the matter too) don't like loud dancing? They like it more than Alpha NTs, usually. In fact the whole house partying scene can sometimes be terribly gamma, chock full of ESI and SEE.
    No, by "options for both loud dancing and quiet discussion", I meant individuals could choose anything from a spectrum of atmospheres, not just having those two options. I think in reality it's more split along the lines of Se-valuing = loud/physical, Fe-valuing = large groups.
    Right, I agree.
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    Merry/Serious aspects are about group interactions in a workplace setting.

    INTjs are very "merry" in that setting. So are the others in the Alpha group. They are aware of the emotional background behind the people in the meeting. It is not about them being chipper.

    As a person who claims the title INTj I must say that we are very much like that. We have a cloudy but none the less working Fe suggestive function. The suggestive function is a slave to the lead (or first) function of each person. As a slave, 5th functions role is to explore the context that the 1st function must survive within. The 5th function shapes the medium through which the 1st function travels.

    The enslaved 5th function is always the opposite j or p function of the master 1st function. If the master is Ti, its slave is the opposite judging function, Fe. It is opposite in the dimension of T and F, and in e and i.

    The 5th function represents the most opposite function of the 1st function. Now what does it do? The most opposite function is what will receive and absorb the expression of

    hmm.. let me explain it this way. The 1st function is what is going to be projected outwardly as that types most competent power to contribute to whatever is being done, so it is sending a signal. That signal has a receiver. The receiver (on the other person) will be experiencing "static" which could cause the signal to break up. That "static" is receiving persons most opposite function of the senders first function.

    Now, to address this static, that very same most opposite function must be activated by the sender and offered to the receiver to basically "tune it" to the right channel. In fact, it "is" the channel that the first function is going to broadcast on - the "channel" is a gap in the static. The 5th function gives a brief blast to make a gap in the static. It is how the first function finds its a clear path forwards.

    The suggestive function could be seen as analogous to St John the Baptist in the Book of John who screams forth "Make a safe path for the Lord to travel!"

    I think that you now understand that the 5th function is to be the prophet or herald of the 1st function. The 5th function of the INTj is Fe - they begin all master interactions with Fe extended first. They are naturally "merry" people. All alphas have Fe in either the 1st, 2nd, 5th, or 6th positions.

    We are serious only when not interacting with people. Our deep furrowed brows become light and merry when talking. We are animated, gesturing, relaxed and basically happy speakers. Any INTj that is not that way is really an INTp!

    INTp's are more abstract speakers, with a more artificial personal presence that resembles a person speaking on a stage. Se is their 5th function. It is the herald of the abstract Ni that is their first function. They are "serious" when interacting with people. The key is that we define the alpha, beta, gamma, delta distinctions through affect-upon-interaction, not through affect-as-such.

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    I'd classify Alphas and Betas as Merry; I'd classify Gammas and Deltas as Serious; and I'd classify individuals, depending on the specific point in time that we're both in, as either "merry", "serious", or both in various ways, if I wanted to, until I couldn't or didn't want to anymore.

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    Serious:

    ESTp
    INFp
    ENTj
    ESFp
    INTp
    INTj
    ISTp
    ISTj

    Merry:

    ISFj
    ESFj
    ISFp
    ENTp
    ESTj
    INFj
    ENFp
    ENFj

    ((Ps: I am always right. I am the God of socionics. You have to listen to me. I can barely tie my own shoes but I know this neurotic middle class crap like the back of my hand. Ask me any questions and I will give a narcissistic, full-detailed explanation on why I am correct.))

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    75% of alpha is indeed merry, with INTj being the only serious type.

    You are not going to convince me that Tcaud is 'Merry' or my father. WHAT THE FUCK EVER. xD

    75% of Beta is actually serious, with ENFj being the only merry type. INFps are moody and broody and stereotypically emo and do not like to be bullied or trolled by people, or have their romantic nature being made fun of. ESTps will seriously protect and be angry and kick anybody's ass who messes with their INFp. <3. ISTjs get seriously angry in a military tough str8 guy way. ENFjs are the only merry type in this quadra.

    75% of gamma is Serious... with ISFjs being the only merry type. ENTjs are beyond serious, same with the politically-minded, activist ESFps....and INTp, merry? Are you kidding me!!!

    Delta, like Alpha, is 75% merry. INFj, ESTj and especially ENFp are all merry types. ISTp isn't, they are introverted and broody almost like an INFp is actually. Meet my cousin's husband and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

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    merry doesn't mean Merry, man

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    lol @ people thinking INTjs are "serious". probably never properly identified one or talked to one for that matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    lol @ people thinking INTjs are "serious". probably never properly identified one or talked to one for that matter.
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    The LIIs I know have this really offbeat, wacky, yet kinda low-key sense of humor; I don't always connect with it perfectly, but I know when it's there

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    All I'm saying is is that people are misusing the words merry and serious to mean things at face value that the dichotomy does not mean.

    But I don't blame them because it's not exactly obvious whether or not the face value is considered part of the dichotomy.

    In other words, it might help (or be more useful) to redefine in much less ambiguous terms.

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    Serious => Common Sense.
    Merry => Uncommon Sense.

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    I still like my version better because it has greater potential to be accepted by Merry types themselves i.e. they surely prefer to be called Uncommon Sense>Common Nonsense.

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    ..it's more politically correct, so to speak. Political correctness is feelgood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    lol @ people thinking INTjs are "serious". probably never properly identified one or talked to one for that matter.
    I know exactly what you mean. One LII i know is very over the top gushy with overdone Fe actually. It's disgusting. Not to say all LIIs are like that though.. I'm sure most have a happy medium.
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    >calling my quadra-mates disgusting

    You are not a good person >:[
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    you cannot be serious

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat King Cole View Post
    Also, I guess most of the ENFps I know aren't merry at all. They're all very dry, and tend toward "soft", subtle displays of emotion as opposed to the self-parodying foghorn displays of egos.
    Certainly rings true for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat King Cole View Post
    >calling my quadra-mates disgusting

    You are not a good person >:[
    Well i didn't say LIIs are disgusting. I said that particular person's over the top Fe is disgusting, when it happens. I feel like she's being fake nice with some alterior motive.

    No quadra hating intended
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    Reinin dichotomies have some of the worst names conceivable. Can everyone please ignore them? Just pretend "Merry" and "Serious" are random, meaningless strings of letters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Analyst Trevor View Post
    Serious => Common Sense.
    Merry => Uncommon Sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Analyst Trevor View Post
    Serious => Common Sense.
    Merry => Common Nonsense.
    Fix'd.
    Corrolary:
    Serious => Uncommon Nonsense

    (To complete the square)

    Note that I think all four of these identifications make pretty much no sense.



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
    - Blair Houghton

    Johari

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