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Thread: I'm a 3

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    Default I'm a 3

    No shoehorning on this one.

    I took one look at this, and it's pretty much how I've been describing myself recently only from an independent source.



    "Be admired" is a driving force for me, as is "self-improve". You can always know more, be more aware, be more physically fit, be more skilled, be more competent. No matter what I do I can always get one step further, indefinitely.

    I mean, that's not the end of it. I've been reading through different resources on 3s and I could pick out passages that echo what I've said of myself if need be.

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    I do come out 8 on majority of these and this one. Love ?

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Not a 3. No way. 2 or 9 definitely, I lean 2, probably with 3 wing, sx/so. Trifix likely 2w3-7w6-9w8.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I don't see you as an assertive type, quite frankly.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    i disagree that you are a 3; i think you are 9w7

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    I'd agree, niff but then I'd have to discard notions of integration and disintegration.

    That said, I like f9 and 3 a lot, since both elegantly answer a lot of my questions about being a Nine, especially in relation to identifying a lot with Competency triad. f9 by shifting me into being a neighbour to 5, 3 by being a Competency type.

    Two just doesn't make sense to me, Gilly. I'd be interested to hear why you think that though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat King Cole View Post
    I'd agree, niff but then I'd have to discard notions of integration and disintegration.

    That said, I like f9 and 3 a lot, since both elegantly answer a lot of my questions about being a Nine, especially in relation to identifying a lot with Competency triad. f9 by shifting me into being a neighbour to 5, 3 by being a Competency type.
    subtle, but logical chunking nonetheless

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    What on earth is logical chunking?
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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat King Cole View Post
    I'd agree, niff but then I'd have to discard notions of integration and disintegration.

    That said, I like f9 and 3 a lot, since both elegantly answer a lot of my questions about being a Nine, especially in relation to identifying a lot with Competency triad. f9 by shifting me into being a neighbour to 5, 3 by being a Competency type.

    Two just doesn't make sense to me, Gilly. I'd be interested to hear why you think that though.
    Well I don't see competency, you don't have the detachment, and you dont seem like the type to increase your performance under pressure. You seem "more than yourself" sometimes like Image triaders can, but it's not the detached competency approach. You also seem more compliant than assertive, although I would probably put you at Withdrawn more than anything; Assertive types have the strongest egos of E-types and tend to be more pushy or forceful in presentation of their ideas, which I just don't see in you. Object attachment relations makes sense, though...honestly I dont see any problems with 9, but 2 would be my second choice.

    Maybe if you explain more exactly why you think you are a 3 I will be able to give you a reflection.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Well, I guess I should preface this with "compulsive gaming has been dicking around with my brain since I started in high school". It's a full-blown addiction for me with a lot of emotional and cognitive consequences, basically sucking away my motivation to do anything, like eating, sleeping, or hygiene, it plays havoc with my moods, makes me socially anxious to the point I don't even want to leave the house, etc, etc. A lot of the Gul that people have seen is "Gul under the influence of videogames". I don't think I'm that person, and I know I don't want to go back to being him, ever.

    If this is too long-winded and rambly, I can also make a tl;dr of keywords I've been getting from articles I've been reading that I think apply to me or echo things I've said or thought of myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Well I don't see competency, you don't have the detachment, and you dont seem like the type to increase your performance under pressure. You seem "more than yourself" sometimes like Image triaders can, but it's not the detached competency approach. You also seem more compliant than assertive, although I would probably put you at Withdrawn more than anything; Assertive types have the strongest egos of E-types and tend to be more pushy or forceful in presentation of their ideas, which I just don't see in you. Object attachment relations makes sense, though...honestly I dont see any problems with 9, but 2 would be my second choice.
    Idk, competency triad rings much more true for me than positive outlook. I don't have any difficulty with my needs or others', but with my feelings and with intimacy and looking like a fool (this last one si a big thing for me). My most important feelings are personal shame, vicarious shame, and envy. I see people being who I want to be, like they're superhumans, and I see people reflecting in myself everything I feel deeply ashamed of.

    (I'm not clear-headed enough, rational enough, ethical enough, I'm a loser, I'm a drifter, I'm not down-to earth enough or insightful or wise or skilled or competent, etc, etc.) I'd say the things that are etched in my mind are all shame, and that's something intense enough in my memory that it makes me wince when my mind drifts over it. A lot of who I am is driving myself to be perfect and dispose of anything I think unworthy of an Excellent Person.

    I've variously tried to rationalise that with having a 5-fix and being a 9w1, but those are all inadequate. That's not to say I don't look on the bright side of a bad situation, but when something goes really wrong in my life my attitude is not "find the silver lining" but "get over it and wring some fruit juice out of a bad situation".

    I think a big part of my friendship with LII 5s is that we're both competency types and we both can scoff at all the mouthbreathers stealing oxygen from good men and women (like me ).

    As for the lack of aggression, have you seen me debate something I know about or believe in? On these forums, I think my scuffles with Galen are somewhat of a good example. On another level if I'm talking to someone I view as inferior I tend to just tune out. I have quite a big ego, but I suppose I try to hide it to make a good impression on people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Maybe if you explain more exactly why you think you are a 3 I will be able to give you a reflection.
    Aside from the above,

    Admiration is my ultimate carrot. Having people openly admire me just makes me feel on top of the world. The flip side is being driven by shame though, and not wanting to be anything like my internal checklist of "loser traits".

    An illustration if you want, I was walking past the booth of the anime club here at uni one time, and one of the people said "I love that guy" as I walked past him. I could've played the Winning song over that. It means I've succeeded at being likeable, and some random who has no other bearing on my existence likes me. Same as when people openly show admiration for me on Google+ for my sense of humor, or knowledge, or ability to spin together a logical argument.

    I'm also a bit of a blank screen personality. I just pick up on the vibes of what people want me to be and I give it to them. This has really made me struggle with a sense of self just because I don't know who "I" am in the middle of being a whole bunch of people for different groups and individuals.

    There's also the planning and the business. e.g. I feel really restless writing up longish posts like these because they're wasting valuable time I could be doing something useful, like practicing piano or teaching myself music theory, even at midnight when my brain is fuzzy and I'm running on low output at best.

    Why am I teaching myself the piano and music theory? Because I like the challenge and I like how involving it is. It's a complex project and one that requires planning and research and challenging your own comfort and emotions, and a lot of learning how to self-manage and blahdiblah. It's a way of developing a skill I personally want (so I can write music for myself for the emotional release) and also a way of being able to meet with people who can do something I can't, and a way of saying "Hah! I pulled off torturing myself and doing something more challenging than a regular person!"

    I really feel lost without something to engage me on a lot of levels at once like that. Even depressed and listless under videogames I was a planner and a strategiser. I suppose an argument could be made for 7 in that my oxygen is "engagement and challenge" rather than "admiration and achievement".

    idk, just the way I see interacting with other people really does make me think aggressive+competency.
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    Fwiw, I could see 3w2 or 2w3.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    I also broached my enneagram typing with Mum today, and when I mentioned that Threes are the "always performing" and "selling people their expected image" type, she was like "Oh yeah That's you. Even from a young age."

    On 2 vs 3, intimacy is kind of a big deal for me. Of my two close friendships atm, one I have to actively surrender myself to the discomfort that comes from the fact this guy knows me from the inside out in his own Ne way and lavishes me with love and praise. It's emotionally close, not functionally close.

    OTOH the other is much more in my comfort zone, because while it's close, it's more a relationship about other people. e.g. He's really insightful and sensible and is frustrated by mouthbreathers to the same extent that I am. For me it's like having my own little snarky superiority club (which is therapeutic: getting to vent helps me be less frustrated at people), as well as someone who can bring in a lot of perspective and sensible thoughts, and be a great audience so I can pull together my thoughts and whatnot (and also be an audience in the sense of me performing--this particular sense is really consistent for me with doms in general).

    I think I also just described security in 6 there, which I previously had just called "9s are allowed to be cranky".
    Last edited by Cat King Cole; 07-31-2011 at 08:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat King Cole View Post
    I also broached my enneagram typing with Mum today, and when I mentioned that Threes are the "always performing" and "selling people their expected image" type, she was like "Oh yeah That's you. Even from a young age."
    Did you sell yourself to your mummy to?

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    Also, the reason I've shied away from 3 is because I'm not really invested in any material status symbols. I want myself, as an individual, to be a status symbol. To be more evolved, mature, and self-secure than Everyone Else. Equally, I'm not really materially productive. I'm more interested in projects that produce something of worth in myself, like being fit, or wise, or knowledgeable, or having some skill or other. If I can show off with it, all the better. I'd much rather be a blackbelt than own a gold rolex. (Actually, my relationship with martial arts is interesting in the sense that I like how there's this universal attitude that it's not about showing off or beating people in fights, but about honing a craft and a discipline, and the high premium placed on humility. I like that the only person I'm selling anything to is myself.)

    That whole notion of mastery and artisanship is definitely something that resonates on a deep emotional level with me.

    To illustrate this, one of my flatmates is an incredibly vibrant fellow and an entrepreneur. I'm not jealous of him because he makes god knows how much money through his businesses, I'm jealous of him because he's led such a rich and interesting life. He's a better person than me in the sense that he's seen wayyyyyy more of the world than I have, not because he makes more money and can afford suits and whatever. I'm not sure if this is the Australian take on 3-dom or if it points away from 3.

    I can definitely see myself reflecting Australian cultural values such as simplicity, egalitarianism, and shying away from being a "tall poppy". Doesn't mean I don't self-promote though, I just don't go around tooting my own horn in a stuck-up way (or not obviously--as I've described I can be extremely arrogant once I'm confident and secure). There was this one Three I knew who kept describing herself in shining terms, and was always dressed up. She might as well have been from Mars it was such a foreign attitude to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bionic View Post
    Did you sell yourself to your mummy to?
    oh bby

    Yeah I'm pretty much a whore, just going around selling myself to everyone. Eyup.
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    There's nothing about e3 that necessitates materialism, so there's no issue on that front. Especially since materialism is increasingly looked down upon.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    There's nothing about e3 that necessitates materialism, so there's no issue on that front. Especially since materialism is increasingly looked down upon.
    Just ran into this and just want to comment that, that it should be the main goal of that of the self persvation 3.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    3 makes sense to me too actually. It'd probably explain why we argue about things so much/the nature of the things we argue about.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    Thanks Numbers, that's a good catch. I'd be a sexual 3 for sure then, esp. with the whole focus on self-perfection. That's basically something I apply to anything I get into.

    EDIT

    Haha, erm, yeah Galen. Sorry! I run into arguments with IEEs incredibly often, so don't take it as a poor reflection on you (or me for that matter). It's just like the Zaxes in Dr Seuss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    There's nothing about e3 that necessitates materialism, so there's no issue on that front. Especially since materialism is increasingly looked down upon.
    Just ran into this and just want to comment that, that it should be the main goal of that of the self persvation 3.
    Even sp3s aren't necessarily inclined toward material status symbols. Tbh, I think so3s in a materialistic culture are most susceptible. The general rule I would apply to sp3s is that they need an image of independence and self-reliance in physiological/material necessities. In that sense, they may be seen as more materialistic, but they want to be seen as a responsible provider of themselves and perhaps others in their circle, and they aren't necessarily as inclined to the flashy materialism of the other variants.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post

    Just ran into this and just want to comment that, that it should be the main goal of that of the self persvation 3.
    Even sp3s aren't necessarily inclined toward material status symbols. Tbh, I think so3s in a materialistic culture are most susceptible. The general rule I would apply to sp3s is that they need an image of independence and self-reliance in physiological/material necessities. In that sense, they may be seen as more materialistic, but they want to be seen as a responsible provider of themselves and perhaps others in their circle, and they aren't necessarily as inclined to the flashy materialism of the other variants.
    hey. I am not sure exactly if what applies what here. but what you mention about Sp3 and their concern about material, and not socially value goals are well explained here.

    Quote Originally Posted by oceanmoonshine
    Enneatype Three belongs to the feeling/image triad. The fear of being unlovable and the concern with validation are expressed differently with the different instinctual stackings.

    With the self-pres instinct dominant, the need for validation is tied to material possessions. Feelings of safety and security are tied to the Three's always having enough and to being seen by others as having enough.

    When the social instinct is dominant, the concern with validation of image is accentuated, so there is generally a competitive nature to social Threes. Social Threes may go to great lengths to further the image of themselves as being successful. In the social Three, since image validation is accentuated, we find a subtype that can be very competitive when it comes to social status.

    The sexual Three is competitive in the area of physical attraction. Their focus is on being seen as someone who is able to attract and secure a mate.
    Social 3 wants to be seen as successful doesn't always have to be material wealth I mean. and my main point. Like if they are developed in let say a monk society, they would probably want to be seen as their social ideal and follow Buddhism, or any religion or any social variant.

    Quote Originally Posted by oceanmoonshine on social 3
    The social instinct combines with the dominant Threeness and accentuates the desire for external validation. This Three derives validation from peer admiration due to high social rank. Of course, the actual sources of admiration (money, a large house, college degrees, flashy cars, etc.) will vary greatly depending on the individual life circumstances. However, the goal will always be on attaining an enviable status in the eyes of others, which necessitates a degree of conformity to the norms of the individual’s culture. For example, a social/self-pres Three born in American society will likely strive to epitomize the “American dream” by embodying all the qualities most Americans currently associate with perfection. These Threes will work tirelessly to find an attractive mate, attain a beautiful home, drive a high status car, and, of course, possess a physically appealing appearance. The bottom line is, unless the social Three perceives their status as being “exceptional” compared to their peers, they feel utterly valueless; there is no middle ground. This stems from the Three's fear that they are inherently empty and must continuously prove their worth by receiving validation. The social Three thus focuses their energy on the arena of social status.
    Last edited by 07490; 08-01-2011 at 04:34 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    There's nothing about e3 that necessitates materialism, so there's no issue on that front. Especially since materialism is increasingly looked down upon.
    You mention about materialism right? not about status symbol?
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    There's nothing about e3 that necessitates materialism, so there's no issue on that front. Especially since materialism is increasingly looked down upon.
    You mention about materialism right? not about status symbol?
    My main concern was with status symbols in the way CKC described. It makes sense that sp3s are more focused on material aspects as far as physiological and security needs go.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post

    You mention about materialism right? not about status symbol?
    My main concern was with status symbols in the way CKC described. It makes sense that sp3s are more focused on material aspects as far as physiological and security needs go.
    Well you deleted your post earlier and mixed status symbol with materialism, hence i wrote that comment.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    gul, theres something very odd about how you make rationalizations towards your type in a very similar sense I get from, gilly. theres some sort of distortion in how you see yourself that comes out as very evident in your posts, IMO, and leads to a forced quasi-synthentic mismesh of ideas. points for 3 aren't very convincing, at least to me. if knowledgeable people are telling you that you are more likely a 2, I would highly suggest exploring that to its fullest extent before dismissing it. Personally, I think its more likely for you to be a 2w3 at this point.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Perhaps. I know I dismissed 3 because I had too shallow an image of it and just wrote it off as "The productive and materialistic type".

    Two seems too helpful and relationship-centric. I like distance in my relationships, or for people to relate to something that I'm not "in" too heavily. (It can be a double edged sword of course. Much as I loved that I was a household name in high school it felt somewhat stifling that I'd been typecast and could only ever be the brilliantly eccentric guy.)

    To the extent that the 3 is the under-feeling type, I'm it.

    Still, fair point.

    @Gilly, how do you see 2s, how do you see me as a 2?

    --

    On a Socionics unrelated note, I think Jung's description of the "covert introverted thinker" fits me like a glove.

    Either he is taciturn or he falls among people who cannot understand him; whereupon he proceeds to gather further proof of the unfathomable stupidity of man. If he should ever chance to be understood, he is credulously liable to overestimate. Ambitious women have only to understand how advantage may be taken of his uncritical attitude towards the object to make an easy prey of him; or he may develop into a misanthropic bachelor with a childlike heart. Then, too, his outward appearance is often gauche, as if he were painfully anxious to escape observation; or he may show a remarkable unconcern, an almost childlike naivete.
    I suspect some of the "Artificiality" is the more I get involved with a self-image the more I start selling it to myself as well. The way in which I'm a "textbook" Alpha is a great example of that. I mean, do you know any Alphas who are actually like me? I'm actually a really crappy real-life Alpha. I'm this cartoon exaggeration of Alpha traits and values.
    Last edited by Cat King Cole; 08-01-2011 at 08:46 AM.
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    I'm a TV.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post

    My main concern was with status symbols in the way CKC described. It makes sense that sp3s are more focused on material aspects as far as physiological and security needs go.
    Well you deleted your post earlier and mixed status symbol with materialism, hence i wrote that comment.
    I was associating "materialism" with typical american materialism including status symbols, so it was just my confusion. Ignore me.


    @Gul
    It does seem as though you are more positivist than objectivist. That's the main thing that makes me think that you would be e2. But if you say you're not the overly emotional type, I don't really have any reason to doubt you and that you are not e2. E2s recognize and take pride in their nurturing nature and are probably the easiest etypes to identify. The only thing they may be in denial about is that they ultimately have selfish motivations.
    Last edited by Azeroffs; 08-01-2011 at 06:04 PM.
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    I can't see you as a 3 at all. 3s look a lot more narcissistically beautiful than you look. And what you have achieved in your life? You are a wow nerd. (no offense or anything, so am I)

    There's a lot more to being a 3 than 'projecting the right image.' That is probably just your middle class-ness or something. 3s are known to cover up their loserness and be typical workaholic americans. You OTOH proudly wear your geekiness as a badge.

    Real friendship matters to you too much to be a 3. Even the most self-liberated 3s at their healthiest have problems keeping true friends. How you cared for and stuck up for Isha when she was down, instead of getting a corporate job and 'looking good for society' disproves this crazy 3 theory. You simply do not shit on others enough to make your own self look good.

    You are a 9 or a 6 most likely. I think you're a 6.

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    I think I can be very emotive and emotional, actually.

    That said, I have a tendency to be out of touch with my feelings, emotive and emotional or not. My ongoing crisis at the moment is this tug of war between my heart and my head. I finally have legs to stand on and get something done in my life thanks to free time, motivation and confidence that weren't there before. But where do I go? A lot of different fields are of interest to me. Biocomputers and atmospheric physics for instance. But what's the sensible choice? Any tension with sensibility tends to become an intractable problem for me.

    I could certainly be a Two. What's difficult is that the picture of the Two is so incredibly negative in all the R&H writings, so it's difficult to say "That's me." I definitely feel obliged to be helpful and nice and polite to people, and feel like I have a one-up in not needing anyone.

    What I don't have trouble with is looking after myself, or feeling obliged not to be selfish. The only time I don't necessarily look after myself is if I feel obliged to take care of something for someone else first, but that has limits too. I don't feel like I have to live up to superhuman standards in that regard. OTOH If someone asks me to get something done or sets some standard or forms some image of me, that gets me moving. It's really disheartening when I can't achieve or be perfect. Shame and disappointment, as I said above, are the things that stand out the brightest in my mind.

    In favour of Compliant, I don't know how obvious it is, but I can much more easily say "I feel obliged" than make stark statements about "I think" or "I feel". I have such a weak handle on myself compared to my sense of obligation or "oughtas".

    That said I still really, really don't see myself in Two in the sense that Twos "need" close relationships, or relationships at all. I'd say I "need" to be in motion and be busy and achieving things. I'd say my approach to relationships is "charming" or "diplomatic".

    I like my admiration to come from afar. I want to look like a guru, not this indispensable font of wisdom that you want in your life. that's an insane attitude. I wouldn't say I'm driven by relationships at all, aside from the admiration of strangers. Two also feels too unambitious and unfocused.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    There's a lot more to being a 3 than 'projecting the right image.' That is probably just your middle class-ness or something. 3s are known to cover up their loserness and be typical workaholic americans. You OTOH proudly wear your geekiness as a badge.
    Given the right social circle, an e3 could easily be seen wearing geekiness as a badge. Also, "narcissisticly beautiful" screams 3w4 > 3w2 to me. 3w4s are more prone to the image of "look but don't touch." 3w2s are much more engaging and attention-whorish. They hardly have an elegance to their narcissism.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I can't see you as a 3 at all. 3s look a lot more narcissistically beautiful than you look. And what you have achieved in your life? You are a wow nerd. (no offense or anything, so am I)
    WoW expat. I'm never going to go back to games. What do they get me, and where do they get me? Nothing and nowhere. They're a waste of time, something that I've wasted far too much of already.

    I mean, no offence taken. It's just a visceral emotional response to having a year and a half getting nothing done and focusing all my drive and ambition on a videogame. It's absurd. Who cares if I'm the best at tanking or healing? My raid? Some puggers? They do. And I eat it up, definitely. But that's small-time. It's a dead end.

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    There's a lot more to being a 3 than 'projecting the right image.' That is probably just your middle class-ness or something. 3s are known to cover up their loserness and be typical workaholic americans. You OTOH proudly wear your geekiness as a badge.
    Part of the geekiness is a way of saying--hey. Aren't you envious of me? I'm more shameless than you. More natural. More unshakeably self-confident. I can wear a dressing gown around like it's an Amani suit and talk to you like I'm hot shit. And you'll swallow it.

    (And people do. That's the glory of it: people love me.)

    The whole notion of being a loser or openly wearing your shame is just toxic to me. I have this checklist of people I think are losers or have loser traits. I want not to be them or have those traits as much as I want to be competitive with people I see as being successful human beings or having admirable traits.

    That said, part of the geekiness is because I am, in fact, a geek. I get intellectual boners over maths and science. That's who and what I am. You can hide it from other people because they can't relate, but you definitely can't fake it.

    Or is that not what you meant by "geekiness"?

    The thing about these forums is that they're plugged straight into my inner life. I wrote elsewhere that I have dual lives. There's the guy on the outside, the performance. Then there's the thoughts and feelings on the inside that nobody knows are there. Sometimes I don't know they're there, or even what they really are. My internal landscape is so mutable like that.

    I've already crossed my event horizon of shame and openness on these boards. I also have more to lose by acting a part rather than being honest so I can learn about myself. That fact that I'm even acting and performing even when nobody is looking should be telling.

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Real friendship matters to you too much to be a 3. Even the most self-liberated 3s at their healthiest have problems keeping true friends. How you cared for and stuck up for Isha when she was down, instead of getting a corporate job and 'looking good for society' disproves this crazy 3 theory. You simply do not shit on others enough to make your own self look good.
    Meh. Isha wasn't a "real friend". I loved her. That's a general human thing.
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    Let's keep it short and sweet for now lol.

    3s are known as the achievers. That's their main point, in a sharp nutshell. What have you achieved??? You just aren't a go-getter achiever....((as far as I know, feel free to prove me wrong with real/tangible, external evidence....))

    3s achieve to look good in the eyes of others. That's why they keep making so many external successes, to look good for other people ie "This is what I should be doing with my life, instead of being a loser."

    and okay yeah my comment about 3s not knowing how to make real friends was too harsh.

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    Welp, most of my conscious drive to achieve got diverted into WoW. Guilds I've raided with would comment that I'm an excellent healer. PuGs loved my tanking and my heals because I pulled off shit that had no right to be done. Some of that leaked into other games as well. I have a bunch of unfinished essays on fundamentals of strategy RPGs and analysis of game design kicking around in my scrapbook.

    In high school I deliberately cultivated my image and popularity as an oddball. I was that kid that everyone knew, even the junior years. I think I was kind of a joke to them though. For my own grade I was heavily mythologised--or so I hear. I only got to hear snippets here and there of the rumours being passed around behind my back. Didn't really matter to me if I was a laughing stock or a respected celebrity, almost everyone knew who I was.

    In primary school I got a neverending stream of academic achievements term after term for being in the top 10 students. I still have no idea how, and the impostor syndrome from that still haunts me to this day. I guess being told I was brilliant constantly and then having my intelligence be neutralised by challenging high school work was really confounding for me, especially because I was pretty much being mindraped by a bunch of infatuations and a chronic rough patch with my mum, so I pulled all the way inside myself and was pretty much the definition of a psychotic depressive. I really let myself slip and just "worked" on being popular and trying to build a mini-economy for myself in WoW, which phased into becoming an expert dungeon runner at some point or another.

    I also managed to attract a 10k view, 1k post thread playing a reverse turing game with a bunch of pimply mouthbreathers. By the end of it some randoms who weren't even part of the forum came in and used Gödel's incompleteness theorem to prove I was a human. It definitely started off small as an accident, but I kept it going quite deliberately.

    Once in high school I got offered to give a talk about the Kuiper Belt just because the teacher picked up that I was doing a lot of independent science reading. I don't know if I'd gotten into my habit of interjecting classes with "Did You Know" trivia that I'd encountered on my wiki trolls then, maybe that was why. I did the research and gathered together a vague talk but didn't think it was good enough so I turned down the offer on the day I was due to give the presentation.

    The next year's general science class as well I was That Guy who knew. That was the one year I did amazingly well at anything since my straight-HD year 7, because the teacher just made a general remark about "I expect you to do well on genetics". I really studied hard for the science exam, pulled myself together, did my planning and doing schtick that I do so well, and got myself a D for science. I don't think I did well on any other exams, except maybe Latin, but that's cheating because I have a talent for languages. I guess I have a talent for learning things too, though, so the science was cheating too I reckon.

    I also got into the highly selective extension 2 maths. To put that in context, I'm covering my ext 2 maths work again this year in uni doing the university maths. Only 3 schools in my state offer it and I think the candidature was <100 out of the entire state. I guess that counts as an achievement?

    Last year in my bridging course into uni, the tutor encouraged me to talk to the tutorial about some mind mapping software that I was talking with him about. I got everyone set up with it and set up a sharing account so we could get collaborative mind maps drawn up of the lectures. Honestly I think it went right over their heads, but whatever.

    In general people seem to get this impression of me as some kind of shining beacon of fantastic wonderful awesomeness or something. I've variously been called brilliant, full of potential, aware, insightful, highly reflective, thoughtful, highly detailed, knowledgeable, highly talented with voice acting, blah blah blah blah. All that BS that's been glancing off the windshield since I stopped magically getting good grades without understanding what was happening.

    The irony is that nobody recognises me for the things that I actually struggle to improve because I feel like I'm defective in them. Nobody knows that I can be roughly competitive with people in mental arithmetic, lagging behind by <1s now, despite the fact that mental calculations used to make me literally cry tears of frustration. So there's another achievement. I've overcome most of the emotionality that used to cloud my judgement and ability to reason... but nope. That goes unacknowledged. (Mostly... someone recently commented that my beliefs are flawlessly logical. (On the inside: WINNING.)) There's another one. Oh yeah, and people love me now, semi-effortlessly on my part (some of it's still measured and rehearsed, drrrr). I'm not that awkward kid who smells bad who you don't want to talk to. That's my crowning achievement.
    Last edited by Cat King Cole; 08-02-2011 at 11:43 AM.
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    3s aren't just about external success. It's about trying to rise above being a failure. Losers are all about failing. Running from your humble roots.

    Even success opens up more failure, and the only way you can win is by trying harder and harder to temper out all your imperfections, but it's obviously a game where the only winning move is to fold and walk away... but no, that jazz is jive talkin', cat! That's loser speak for lamey loser failures.

    --

    I want to take a step back for a second.



    Tom Condon is a genius. I just want to say that now.

    But what's important about that video? Heart types operate out of derived feelings. They relate emotionally to how they picture themselves, how they evaluate themselves, how they imagine other people see them, etc. They're feelings about imaginary things, rather than being your "own" (or own? idfk, I'm so out of touch with myself).

    I don't know how much it shows in my writing, but when I focus around "failure" or "victory", it changes how I feel. I get emotionally involved in my imaginary scenarios. I'm relating to my image of myself as either one of those two things. Don't I look stupid, I bet people are embarrassed just looking at me.//I'm FABULOUS! I can feel everyone's envy/admiration and it's glorious.

    I hope everyone's taking notes. This is pure gold right here.

    Inside? I feel whatever I'm "meant" to. Before I was a Nine. Unflappable, dispassionate, occasionally angry. Now I'm a Three. I'm an arrogant, narcissistic douche. What I haven't ever really been except when I'm being gobbled up alive by sadness is a Gul, and Guls have lots of feelings that you can't read off a script, but as for what they are, it's irrelevant to typing me.

    So. There you have it. I'm a Three.
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    o yeah, and sam-i-am and anyone else, please don't take the bitter/angry tone as directed at yourselves. A lot of this deep and meaningful inner crap has to be fished out of a bilious bubbling bog that I languidly lounge atop, cynical king of a companionless castle, and blahdiblah-hah.

    Peace out.

    Also check out Lucy Quinn Fabray from Glee. The whole running from her past thing has strange echoes for me, even if she's more externalised and hasn't been mired in emotional problems preventing her from doing anything of worth or merit.
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    I'm not offended, honey. But you just still don't get it imo.

    The whole running from her past thing has strange echoes for me, even if she's more externalised and hasn't been mired in emotional problems preventing her from doing anything of worth or merit.
    3s don't have emotional problems. 3s are unaware of their own base emotions in themselves to begin with. They aren't mired in 'emo problems', they have a hard time feeling anything at all. That's why they are one of the types most likely to hurt other people...because the shock of breaking empathy barriers is the only thing that unhealthy 3s can do to feel alive.

    When unhealthy I don't see you hurting other people like that, only yourself.

    And likewise, that's why they can be personally successful with so much shit....they can bypass all feelings and just fucking DO IT. More than any other type.

    And btw all those things you mentioned have nothing to do with the type of real achievements a 3 goes after. To a 3, playing even one minute of world of warcraft would feel incredibly stupid for them, but it might help with their 6 integration. Those things you mentioned are all academic/socialist achievements... an employer doesn't care about what grades you get. The 'real world' just doesn't work that way, ya know (I'm not trying to be condescending, I just want you to get a better picture of what 3s are really like)

    To me, a 3 makes it the real capitalist world. Not the ideal 'gay socialist world.' Like me, you make it in the ideal 'gay world' but you aren't all showy and successful in the real world. College isn't real life, obviously, it's just a hopeful stepping stone to prepare other people and try to give them some life skills. But it's too ideal to be of any practical use, ya know?

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    I dunno. I'm not sure I see it, but I do know I have related to some things you've said about being a "blob" and morphing to others' expectations, although it sounds more like a passive/natural thing when you say it and mine is definitely more of an active, calculating adaptation.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Before I was a Nine. Unflappable, dispassionate, occasionally angry. Now I'm a Three. I'm an arrogant, narcissistic douche.
    You are STILL a 9. You just want to integrate really badly, but it's just not happening as quick as you'd like or something...it's just not happening the way that you're planning/intending.

    You aren't arrogant or narcissistic or douche-y at all. Nigga please!

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    It's a mixed bag though. I can definitely be "premeditated" and "rehearsed". Even very rapidly, in-the-moment. I remember befriending Hemoglobin, I basically had a script of what was the "smooth", appropriate thing to say in response to whatever she was talking about. Impressing people and getting them to like me is a mixed bag of pulling from a script and just being myself. Some of that script is prepared way in advance of any kind of interaction, and is just general stuff like "be confident" and "show confident and assertive body language" or "divert attention repeatedly to your conversation partner".

    Hemo's a really good example, because she's part of a big group of Betas, which is the main way I interact with her. In that context I just swallow my Alpha "kiddy" apprehensions and act up as a Beta, comfort or no, so I fit in.

    But yeah, some of it is just passively walking into a room and "fitting in" so fluidly that I don't realise until I spend time later reflecting and realise I wasn't myself at all.
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