I don't know anymore

[redbaron]

I've been reading Patti Smith's biography, 'Just Kids' (fabulous, by the way. highly, highly recommended) and realizing I might not be IEI. I know that's a pretty weird thing to say. And probably every IEI would look "boring" compared to her. But several things have occurred to me, nevertheless.

I have always tested 50/50 on the MBTI J/P sections of any test.

My life has looked "normal". Rational and reasonable. I've chalked that up to a conservative upbringing. But honestly, when I look at my choices (and they *are* MY choices. Nobody twisted my arm), I see a linear, one-step-after-the-other progression. Predictable. I've said this was me doing what other people expect of me. But maybe it was what I expected of myself because that's how I saw the world. I don't really know anymore. I can't tell. It's become too difficult for me to decipher my natural state.

Lately I've noticed that my emotions can have these bright bursts (which is probably normal for all Fe-egos) but mine seem particularly bright. Occasionally brighter than other Fe-creatives? Like, unnecessarily bright.

I also tend toward not being able to concentrate. I start projects and cannot finish them (or it takes forever) because I get bored. I start writing stories and I can't see them through to the ending.

My natural state is laziness and I can sit immobile for a long time, perfectly happy. Yet there are other times when I'm sitting that I can't stop moving my foot. If there's a song I like or I feel really enthused, it's extremely difficult to keep my body from moving.

I feel jealous of performers. I was such an extremely shy child but there's a big part of me that wishes I could have done that from a young age. (also, maybe not type related, or maybe more common among Fe-egos of all kinds)

I prefer to focus on other people. I don't really like talking about myself and would rather ask questions of others so that I can listen and react/respond and in that way, gain their trust, love, friendship, etc through our interactions (but will only go to this trouble if I really like the person). It's taken me a long time to learn how to reveal my inner self. It's much easier for me to reflect back someone else's view than it is to hold my own. And maybe that's not type related at all. I don't know. BUT when I DO have a view, it seems to just roll off my tongue in a very opinionated way. All at once and it comes out of me in a surprisingly strong way. This is rare, don't get me wrong. But occasionally I'll think "whoa, where did *that* come from?"

My parents used to tell me all the time that I loved to argue. They even told me I should be a lawyer and/or marry a lawyer (what kind of parents would tell their argumentative child that she should marry another argumentative person?).

I sometimes feel angry when I'm not taken seriously. When someone tells me I can't do something, I try harder to do it. I get this strange almost otherworldly determination. But it's all to prove the other person wrong, not to do whatever it was, for its own sake.

I also get angry when I'm ignored.

Overall, I'm very calm, laid back, go with the flow. But I have to admit that there are aspects of me, deeper in, that are more intense. Not as Ip as I sometimes pretend to be. Maybe I've learned, over time, to squash down certain aspects of myself. I'm feeling like a mix of the beta NFs I guess. But it's weird because I almost feel like I'm two different types. (dual type! lol)

[Gilly]

I've been reading Patti Smith's biography, 'Just Kids' (fabulous, by the way. highly, highly recommended) and realizing I might not be IEI. I know that's a pretty weird thing to say. And probably every IEI would look "boring" compared to her. But several things have occurred to me, nevertheless.

I have always tested 50/50 on the MBTI J/P sections of any test.

My life has looked "normal". Rational and reasonable. I've chalked that up to a conservative upbringing. But honestly, when I look at my choices (and they *are* MY choices. Nobody twisted my arm), I see a linear, one-step-after-the-other progression. Predictable. I've said this was me doing what other people expect of me. But maybe it was what I expected of myself because that's how I saw the world. I don't really know anymore. I can't tell. It's become too difficult for me to decipher my natural state.

Lately I've noticed that my emotions can have these bright bursts (which is probably normal for all Fe-egos) but mine seem particularly bright. Occasionally brighter than other Fe-creatives? Like, unnecessarily bright.

I also tend toward not being able to concentrate. I start projects and cannot finish them (or it takes forever) because I get bored. I start writing stories and I can't see them through to the ending.

My natural state is laziness and I can sit immobile for a long time, perfectly happy. Yet there are other times when I'm sitting that I can't stop moving my foot. If there's a song I like or I feel really enthused, it's extremely difficult to keep my body from moving.

I feel jealous of performers. I was such an extremely shy child but there's a big part of me that wishes I could have done that from a young age. (also, maybe not type related, or maybe more common among Fe-egos of all kinds)

I prefer to focus on other people. I don't really like talking about myself and would rather ask questions of others so that I can listen and react/respond and in that way, gain their trust, love, friendship, etc through our interactions (but will only go to this trouble if I really like the person). It's taken me a long time to learn how to reveal my inner self. It's much easier for me to reflect back someone else's view than it is to hold my own. And maybe that's not type related at all. I don't know. BUT when I DO have a view, it seems to just roll off my tongue in a very opinionated way. All at once and it comes out of me in a surprisingly strong way. This is rare, don't get me wrong. But occasionally I'll think "whoa, where did *that* come from?"

My parents used to tell me all the time that I loved to argue. They even told me I should be a lawyer and/or marry a lawyer (what kind of parents would tell their argumentative child that she should marry another argumentative person?).

I sometimes feel angry when I'm not taken seriously. When someone tells me I can't do something, I try harder to do it. I get this strange almost otherworldly determination. But it's all to prove the other person wrong, not to do whatever it was, for its own sake.

I also get angry when I'm ignored.

Overall, I'm very calm, laid back, go with the flow. But I have to admit that there are aspects of me, deeper in, that are more intense. Not as Ip as I sometimes pretend to be. Maybe I've learned, over time, to squash down certain aspects of myself. I'm feeling like a mix of the beta NFs I guess. But it's weird because I almost feel like I'm two different types. (dual type! lol)

Everything here makes me think SEI>IEI, as I've always said.

[redbaron]

fine but Ne?? Don't need it or want it or crave it. not alpha. blah blah blah

[Cat King Cole]

What do you associate with ?

[Mediator Kam]

yeah, what is Ne to you?

[Cat King Cole]

A ravening pack of Alpha SFs appears!

Fight | Run
Item  | Alpha NT

[redbaron]

I think of Ne largely as the ability to recognize possibilities and opportunities. To start new projects and brainstorm ideas.

That said, I've never been particularly close with an ILE before so.... I dunno. I do have a couple of ILE female friends. But one of them is long distance and the other I see infrequently and she's 20 years older than I am.

[redbaron]

Redbaron, I have a good friend during my college days whom you remind me of. I thought she was IEI at the beginning, due to her getting along exceptionally well with Betas (she hung out with the Beta group), fell very much in love with an IEI and they're still together as far as I know). She is so friendly and nice, she got along with everybody. And when I say everybody, I do mean everybody- even LIEs, though there had been a number of little friendly squabbles between them which never got out of hand.

I do get along with everyone. There are people I don't like but they probably don't realize this.

She never really stood out in the beginning, but at the end of the year, everybody knew her and wanted her in every party. She was the one that made everybody feel comfortable, drawing people into conversations if you looked out of place, and had an ILE for a best friend. I have never seen her being nasty or showy with her bad moods (which I can be), always tries to soothe conflicts, never edgy, and once told me that she had always been the "listener", the one everyone goes to for "relationship advice" and complains to in general (she's great at listening to problems and comforting others), whereas she mostly keeps to herself and secretly wishes for someone to confide and pour her heart out to. She once joked that she should start charging people for relationship advice, because so many go to her to talk to.

When you do confide in her, she comforts you in a very Alpha-ish way (which is great, but isn't exactly what I was looking for) She did not really "get" me in that sort of Ni-ish way in which I wanted to be understood. She is known as the "secretary", and she would seriously make a great secretary with her famous "typewriter" handwriting and organization skills. She is the one everyone goes to during the last minute assignment or examination rush because she does her homework, have every tutorial answer and notes in place. She would be the one keeping track of time and reminding us of classes and that it's time to leave when everyone is contented to just laze around. Ironically though, she considers herself as a lazy person. If she is, it doesn't really show because of her strong sense of responsibility.

lol This is accurate other than the fact that I'm horribly unorganized.

She told me that she notices and enjoys looking at the stuff people wear, the colours of their shirts, etc. She enjoyed handicraft and would write these sweet little notes using multi-coloured pens to all her friends, never forgets anyone's birthday, gives very nice birthday wishes (everyone looks forward to receiving her birthday wishes, because it's just so nice and sweet), and would search for random quotes she found on the internet and post them on facebook on a frequent basis ( seeking?). She is incapable of showing her anger (not in a highly noticeable manner), and we used to laugh at her in her rare moments of "anger" because she didn't look all that angry at all. Lol. She did reveal to me that she had actually felt very angry during an incident, though she didn't appear that way at all (An LSI who had a crush on her borrowed her notes and sort of messed it up in some way).

My life has looked "normal". Rational and reasonable... Predictable.

My SEI-Si friend said the exact same thing to me. That she was just a normal kid with a normal personality. Not unique. (She used to call me that) I actually felt rather sad when she said that (she wasn't unique), because she really is so unique in her own "normal" way. What would the world be if it were purely terrorized by hoards of fagging, individualistic Betas? Sometimes all you need is someone... normal. Normalcy of this sort isn't getting the proper recognition it deserves. Heh.

Among my set (which is admittedly very normal), I'm considered pretty unique as an individual. But what I meant was that my decisions up until now at least, have been kind of predictable and linear.

Maybe I'm SEI. But seriously if you knew how much time I spend in my head and daydreaming and not paying attention to anything around me, you might be surprised. Still, SEI is probably not out of the question.

[redbaron]

I've been reading Patti Smith's biography, 'Just Kids' (fabulous, by the way. highly, highly recommended) and realizing I might not be IEI. I know that's a pretty weird thing to say. And probably every IEI would look "boring" compared to her. But several things have occurred to me, nevertheless.

She always gave me an overwhelming impression of being a T-ego.

Everything you wrote sounds massively P, and not particularly non-IEI. Actually, most of what you wrote sounds like it could be about me.

[Beautiful sky]

I think she may be EIE with demonstrative that comes out sometimes, especially in writing.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

My life has looked "normal". Rational and reasonable. I've chalked that up to a conservative upbringing. But honestly, when I look at my choices (and they *are* MY choices. Nobody twisted my arm), I see a linear, one-step-after-the-other progression. Predictable.

I don't see how that has anything to do with type...but thank you for sharing.

I've said this was me doing what other people expect of me. But maybe it was what I expected of myself because that's how I saw the world. I don't really know anymore. I can't tell. It's become too difficult for me to decipher my natural state.

I think personality typologists just want to know what 'your home personality is like.' Even that is fulled with nuances and contradictions I know. But come on. Society and your family isn't pressuring you to be a certain way 24/7 are they? How does redbaron act when redbaron is just by herself? The empathetic reflection thing is common in all EP/IP types, I think. Btw.

Lately I've noticed that my emotions can have these bright bursts (which is probably normal for all Fe-egos) but mine seem particularly bright. Occasionally brighter than other Fe-creatives? Like, unnecessarily bright.

You're just a bright person, as in intelligent. I can't see how this makes you SEI over IEI. This is what your post is mainly alluding to is it not?

I also tend toward not being able to concentrate. I start projects and cannot finish them (or it takes forever) because I get bored. I start writing stories and I can't see them through to the ending.

A story can't be interesting 24/7. It's just unrealistic and starts to seem silly like you're just trying to make it interesting all the time... I mean, your audience can man-up and sit through some drudgery w/you. It will make the 'interesting points' all the more interesting, if you have some contrast.

My natural state is laziness and I can sit immobile for a long time, perfectly happy. Yet there are other times when I'm sitting that I can't stop moving my foot. If there's a song I like or I feel really enthused, it's extremely difficult to keep my body from moving.

IP energy.

It's taken me a long time to learn how to reveal my inner self. It's much easier for me to reflect back someone else's view than it is to hold my own. And maybe that's not type related at all. I don't know. BUT when I DO have a view, it seems to just roll off my tongue in a very opinionated way. All at once and it comes out of me in a surprisingly strong way. This is rare, don't get me wrong. But occasionally I'll think "whoa, where did *that* come from?"

Please stop insinuating that ISFps are somehow stronger and 'hardier' than INFps, because they are not. If anything, INFps have the more biting power, whereas ISFps handle being bitten a lot better, but even that's probably stretching it. There's the nice girl INFp part of your personality but it doesn't mean you also don't know when to put the bitch gloves on. Why would it? Dolphin is empathetic reflective too, yet she still knows how to do the same thing. I just think you might be driving yourself crazy with 'one or the other' type of thinking.

My parents used to tell me all the time that I loved to argue. They even told me I should be a lawyer and/or marry a lawyer (what kind of parents would tell their argumentative child that she should marry another argumentative person?).

INFps can love to argue too. You seem to have this subconscious belief in your head that being an INFp means being a weak pushover. It sounds like you're just tired of being thought of as weak...

I sometimes feel angry when I'm not taken seriously. When someone tells me I can't do something, I try harder to do it. I get this strange almost otherworldly determination. But it's all to prove the other person wrong, not to do whatever it was, for its own sake.

Being an INFp woman doesn't make you a victim. It doesn't mean you're a different type either though... And it certainly doesn't mean that there's something fundamentally wrong with being an INFp. It's just you have to not take stereotypes so much to heart. Other people might think you are weak for being a woman and an INFp- just like a lot of people look down on me for being a gay guy. But in the end it's up to me to not let that shit bother me or not. So it just sounds like you want to prove to other people that INFps can be tough. And we certainly can be.

I also get angry when I'm ignored.

Everybody does. Human nature.

Overall, I'm very calm, laid back, go with the flow. But I have to admit that there are aspects of me, deeper in, that are more intense. Not as Ip as I sometimes pretend to be. Maybe I've learned, over time, to squash down certain aspects of myself. I'm feeling like a mix of the beta NFs I guess. But it's weird because I almost feel like I'm two different types. (dual type! lol)

What you're suggesting about IPs and INFps in particular is silly, and just isn't true.

[silke]

I have always tested 50/50 on the MBTI J/P sections of any test.

I score close to J/P on MBTI too. I think this has something to do with being Ni-subtype which is more P-like than the Fe-subtype which is more J-like as far as MBTI is concerned.

My life has looked "normal". Rational and reasonable. I've chalked that up to a conservative upbringing.

Most IEIs I've known in real life lead a rather normal life. But then most people of other types that I've known have rather average lives as well, I mean if you take a bird's-eye view of it and don't zoom into the details of their private lives which are much richer than what gets presented at the surface.

Lately I've noticed that my emotions can have these bright bursts (which is probably normal for all Fe-egos) but mine seem particularly bright. Occasionally brighter than other Fe-creatives? Like, unnecessarily bright.

mmm not sure what you mean here

I also tend toward not being able to concentrate. I start projects and cannot finish them (or it takes forever) because I get bored. I start writing stories and I can't see them through to the ending.

This can be explained on basis of being Ni, the perceiving subtype, rather than Fe, the more rational subtype.

My natural state is laziness and I can sit immobile for a long time, perfectly happy.

This doesn't fit the SEIs I've known. They usually get to doing things right away.

I feel jealous of performers. I was such an extremely shy child but there's a big part of me that wishes I could have done that from a young age. (also, maybe not type related, or maybe more common among Fe-egos of all kinds)

Sounds like enneagram 4 concern. The sentiment you are expressing here I've previously heard form IEI e4, that she feels jealous of artists and performers who have been outstanding in some way while she felt that she has led a rather average life.

... BUT when I DO have a view, it seems to just roll off my tongue in a very opinionated way. All at once and it comes out of me in a surprisingly strong way. This is rare, don't get me wrong. But occasionally I'll think "whoa, where did *that* come from?" ... My parents used to tell me all the time that I loved to argue. ... When someone tells me I can't do something, I try harder to do it. I get this strange almost otherworldly determination. But it's all to prove the other person wrong, not to do whatever it was, for its own sake.

Enneagram type 4 integrating to a more opinionated, focused on accomplishment type 1?

I sometimes feel angry when I'm not taken seriously. ... I also get angry when I'm ignored.

Not type related imho. A lot of people of different types would feel upset if they are not taken seriously.

Overall, I'm very calm, laid back, go with the flow. But I have to admit that there are aspects of me, deeper in, that are more intense. Not as Ip as I sometimes pretend to be. Maybe I've learned, over time, to squash down certain aspects of myself. I'm feeling like a mix of the beta NFs I guess. But it's weird because I almost feel like I'm two different types. (dual type! lol)

Ips can be intense. That might be the sx part of the sp/sx stacking.

[Trevor]

more likely this is just another one of those "the grass is greener..." things that always return home, though.

that being said, this superficially looks like another one of those "the grass is greener..." type shifting adventures that tend not to lead anywhere.

[krieger]

if you haven't figured out your type by now you are never going to find it.

[redbaron]

more likely this is just another one of those "the grass is greener..." things that always return home, though.

that being said, this superficially looks like another one of those "the grass is greener..." type shifting adventures that tend not to lead anywhere.

lol there is no grass is greener and there would be no beneficial reason for me to change my type. and yes labcoat, it does seem that if I don't know my type by now, I never will. And I've always considered myself INFp.

and by "bright", I didn't mean "smart" but rather "extra emphasized and noticeable" I guess.

eh, whatever.

[NewBorn STAR]

that being said, this superficially looks like another one of those "the grass is greener..." type shifting adventures that tend not to lead anywhere.

lol there is no grass is greener and there would be no beneficial reason for me to change my type. and yes labcoat, it does seem that if I don't know my type by now, I never will. And I've always considered myself INFp.

and by "bright", I didn't mean "smart" but rather "extra emphasized and noticeable" I guess.

eh, whatever.

Type is incomplete it will never explain you. Just holding on to a belief or uncertainty of a type you will go around trying to find proofs to different kinds of types, but always wondering if there are different contradicting parts inside you. And of course there is. No type will capture you its just a close estimate. Be yourself and you will find the closest. If you wont then fuck the types anyway. Mind at peace will find itself without any typings or other neurotic bullshit

[WVBRY]

I don't know anymore.

Neither do I.

[The Ineffable]

When you do confide in her, she comforts you in a very Alpha-ish way (which is great, but isn't exactly what I was looking for) She did not really "get" me in that sort of Ni-ish way in which I wanted to be understood. She is known as the "secretary", and she would seriously make a great secretary with her famous "typewriter" handwriting and organization skills. She is the one everyone goes to during the last minute assignment or examination rush because she does her homework, have every tutorial answer and notes in place. She would be the one keeping track of time and reminding us of classes and that it's time to leave when everyone is contented to just laze around. Ironically though, she considers herself as a lazy person. If she is, it doesn't really show because of her strong sense of responsibility.

That sounds like ESI, IMO. It's IME ESIs who try to keep themselves busy still believing that they're lazy, that they haven't done enough, while SEIs, when they are busy for long, think that they work too hard. Also, SEIs are never prepared, they're spontaneous but they get overwhelmed by rush and certainly not they don't use howto's from what I know. Questioning some SEIs, their opinion converge towards the idea that although they generally help and want everything to be fine, they don't want others to rely on them, neither they accept too heavy responsibilities (surgery, "failproof" system design, etc) - both are pretty much applicable to all Ne/Si Irrationals, IMO.
---

Regarding redbaron, I always inclined towards Alpha SF. But I can't decide over Fe Base/Creative, she confirmed herself an Introverted view in things, this is anyway somehow noticeable. I think unlike Beta Fe but like Alpha Fe she [1]:
- jumps quickly to conclusions. Does not put *everything* on the scales (for instance the detailed background of certain information).
- can change her mind relatively easily without concern for her image, reliability - like it's no one's business to judge her in this regard, neither she judges anyone. Lack of the so-called "social responsibility" or "credibility".
- is not cautious enough with what she says, how that can be used against her and stuff;
- does not join sides, purposes or ideas - this is a strong indicative to me because I'm very sensitive to it and I'm monitoring it in almost every person. I'm yet to discover an IEI that I can be certain of and not present that trait.

I personally think those bursts are common to Alpha SFs, it's more of this "naivety" that Ni types are aware of, which makes them cautious and prepared for 10^100 scenarios. That sort of tunnel vision when an opinion is made that affects all Si types. I have this feeling about Alpha SFs needing some sort of social protection, immunity to dismissive criticism that they can't provide themselves when they're found in the wrong place at the wrong time. Beta NFs have a full arsenal of methods to get out of anything when needed, ranging from acting goofy/joking/playful, through claiming an important ideal, to playing the moral card.
---

[1] - opinion built in time, holistically, correct me if I'm wrong.

[krieger]

that takes care of eliminating ISFj...

[Beautiful sky]

Don't sink into doubts because I wouldn't know how to get you out of them...maybe HLD can help with this regard or Squark.

[Park]

Dick sunk into doubts because you wouldn't know how to get your ass out of them... maybe HLD can help wipe this retard or squeak.

I agree.

[redbaron]

ha. well, I dunno if I really care enough to go into some long thing about this. Basically, I always test INFp and the descriptions always sound like me.

I'm pretty naive. I'm not sure what Ineffable was saying regarding this but it triggered my memory that I've been called naive recently by about three different people (new acquaintances). I don't know that it's type related though. I've lived a pretty sheltered, protected life.

I'm careful with my words and when I do blurt out something that might be offensive, I know this ahead of time. Sometimes I even pretend that it didn't occur to me but I always know and I'm doing it on purpose to gauge a reaction. (rare, but it has occasionally happened)

I'm usually prepared. But I don't like to shoulder a lot of responsibility either. I'd rather step up and take charge in a crisis than have everyone EXPECT me to be in charge from the get-go. If something is going wrong and I know I can fix it, I'll fix it. I prefer to play the assistant to the one who is *really* capable and in charge.

I'm comfortable (and have at times been fascinated) thinking about death and the dark side of humanity. I'm sort of the typical 4 in that I don't run from pain but delve deeper into it (which I don't think is necessarily more IEI than SEI, is it?).

Rather than Si being my base function, it's more something I turn on or off at will. For example, when it comes to taking care of the kids, I had to intentionally train myself to remember that I have to force them to wear enough hats, gloves and mittens when they go outside in the winter. Same with sunscreen. I sort of naturally ignore that because I have enough issues myself, figuring out how I'll be most comfortable. I ignore my physical state unless there's something really wrong. I'm good at dressing well but it's taken probably 25 years for me to get to this point. I used to suck at accessorizing. Finally it's become second nature with a lot of practice. Also, I try not to cook or clean as much as I can get away with not doing it.

Probably Fe-creative stuff: I've been told that I wear my emotions all over my face. I've also been told that I look sad and happy at the same time. That I'm brave and very strong on the inside. I'm calm and laid back.

I don't really know that any of this dribble means anything though.

[redbaron]

yeah, thread closed.

[ClaudiaM]

yeah, thread closed.

I am *not* re-opening this to discuss your type, redbaron I think you are Beta NF fo sho

I wanna ask, though, if you're like me in that you enjoy socionics for the daydreaming value it gives. Like, for me, I am pretty sure of my type and have been most of the time I've known about socionics (though like you I have flirted with other type possibilities from time to time). But I like to read about socionics because it helps me understand myself and other people, yeah, but also because... well, daydreaming value. Sounds strange, perhaps, but reading about my dual gives me something nice to think about when I'm at work and in between projects. It's entertaining in itself, and it also helps me build more realistic and simultaneously more lovely fantasies, which I am always constructing in my head anyway .

[Absurd]

Meow,cluck, gabble gabble

You're pretty balanced, as in sane, and you stayed so thus far. I don't know shit about you but beta seems to be fine pick, followed by alpha. Arrgh, deltaish even. Pick a target.

[redbaron]

you guys make me laugh!

[munenori2]

redbaron, I will say that I've always identified pretty well with what your sort of joie de vivre. There's a lot you've written that I would have, especially about why you wouldn't think SEI was an option. IEI isn't far off in my opinion. I wouldn't put much stock in what you are, type wise. It's more about how you get along with the people in your life and who they are (looking for your type by echolocation~) or something. Eh, idk, my advice isn't that great, just sort of throwing it out there.