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Thread: If you want to be a killer move to Europe, If you want to be a rape victim, move to the US

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    Hiding Typhon's Avatar
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    Default If you want to be a killer move to Europe, If you want to be a rape victim, move to the US

    This just in from a German newsstation: the suspected killer of 2011 Norway attacks, Anders Behring Breivik might be facing "up to" 30 years in prison. You beleive it? Thats maybe 2 months per person killed, at worse!

    On the other hand Dominique Staruss-Kahn, the French politician who allegedly raped and sexually assualted a woman in New York City, might be facing up to 74 for years in prison!

    Conclusion: the European justice system is too lax, the American one is too harsh.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    the question is why a high ranking finance official like DSK can't get away with a petty crime like that like so many of his kind continually do. pay off the right person in the right amount and you get off any kind of hook.

    except if there is another party doing the paying...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    On the other hand Dominique Staruss-Kahn, the French politician who allegedly raped and sexually assualted a woman in New York City, might be facing up to 74 for years in prison!
    Please elaborate on why this would make it better to be a US rape victim than a European one.

    I thought I'd add some interesting statistics!
    In Canada there's 20335 km^2 per reported rape,
    while in Belgium there's only 10,95 km^2 per reported rape.
    I haven't calculated what the number is for the US, but I'll bet that it's somewhere in between.
    (The number for Sweden is 75,8 km^2 per reported rape)

    That would make it more rational to move to Belgium if you want to be a rape victim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plotter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    On the other hand Dominique Staruss-Kahn, the French politician who allegedly raped and sexually assualted a woman in New York City, might be facing up to 74 for years in prison!
    Please elaborate on why this would make it better to be a US rape victim than a European one.
    Because, like Labcoat said, if you're paying to be one it pays back.


    Please elaborate on why this would make it better to be a US rape victim than a European one.

    I thought I'd add some interesting statistics!
    In Canada there's 20335 km^2 per reported rape,
    while in Belgium there's only 10,95 km^2 per reported rape.
    I haven't calculated what the number is for the US, but I'll bet that it's somewhere in between.
    (The number for Sweden is 75,8 km^2 per reported rape)
    Most of Canada is uninhabited space. Most of Belgium is overpopulated with human locusts.

    That would make it more rational to move to Belgium if you want to be a rape victim.
    Wink wink

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    Wink wink


    Haha

    Btw, I noticed after I'd completed my post that you're from the questionable state (as in that according to some, states are supposed to have stable governments ). I compiled those numbers a year ago, so it was not meant as a personal assault

    To return onT, how to fight crime and punish or treat criminals, is quite the controversial topic with a lot of different opinions among scholars, so there seems to be little point in dropping names and numbers.
    In the end it's probably more a question of what philosophies you and your fellow society subscribes to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    Thats maybe 2 months per person killed, at worse!
    Yes, I agree. This is an issue that struck me before. I also believe that there is too much focus on resocialization of the most dangerous criminals or maniacs instead of punishment. I don't believe in the death penalty, but why don't lock up people like Breivik just forever? He destroyed the lives of almost 100 people and their relatives and friends, why should he ever be free again? He even confessed it! But on the other hand, someone who bootlegs software might have to go into prison for 5 years, even if nobody was physically harmed at all. This is not fair.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    Thats maybe 2 months per person killed, at worse!
    Yes, I agree. This is an issue that struck me before. I also believe that there is too much focus on resocialization of the most dangerous criminals or maniacs instead of punishment. I don't believe in the death penalty, but why don't lock up people like Breivik just forever? He destroyed the lives of almost 100 people and their relatives and friends, why should he ever be free again? He even confessed it! But on the other hand, someone who bootlegs software might have to go into prison for 5 years, even if nobody was physically harmed at all. This is not fair.

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    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    Conclusion: the European justice system is too lax, the American one is too harsh.
    Yes, ye should get life for killing so many people.

    But on a 1-1 basis, rape is just as bad as murder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    rape is just as bad as murder.
    You take alot of things when you rape someone, but you dont take their life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    rape is just as bad as murder.
    You take alot of things when you rape someone, but you dont take their life.
    Just their sanity and their will to live? Oh, that's okay then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post

    You take alot of things when you rape someone, but you dont take their life.
    Just their sanity and their will to live? Oh, that's okay then.
    I never said that it was okay, you can seriously harm someone when you rape them, but the damage done is not *necessarily* irreversible. You cant resurrect the dead.

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    Why this focus on a greater number of years? As if there was a certain amount of years that would be more apropriate in relation to the crime commited.

    Megadoomer: You compare the number of years to a crime like piracy. A lot of legal systems is based on utilitarian principles which basically makes the length of incarceration for a specific crime a result of finding a balance where the punishment is severe enough to deter people from comitting the offence. When doing this you take into account the severity of the crime (the damage done to life/health and/or other things valued by the society) and how hard it is to catch the offender or how easy it is to commit the crime.
    For instance this is why arson (even if no person is injured) in some states is coupled with a quite severe punishment in contrast to offences like rape or armed robbery. It is much harder to convict an arsonist than a rapist since it is harder to secure compelling evidence. The same is true for offences like tax fraud, forgery and the like, where the likelihood of detection is small. Instead of wasting an unreasonable amount of resources to try to detere people from doing it you raise the scale of punishment so that rational people wouldn't do it even if the likelihood of detection is small



    However in cases like this, the massacre in Norway, we are talking about a man that is politically motivated and isn't scared by any punishment that might be delivered. With such crime it isn't rational to use a method like the one I talked about above. The crime isn't motivated by financial gain or hurt pride that could be controlled by a strict legal system. There's really no rational incentive to keep someone locked in for any amount of time in cases like this. (well maybe if you subscribe to Kant or something)
    But anyhow, going into obscure calculations of how much time in prison one life is worth is kind of odd in my book. A bullet in the neck is the most efficient method of dealing with people like this. It probably wont deter followers, but atleast it is saved tax money, and you reduce the chances of any jailbreaking attempts.

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    Jesus christ, murder is obviously worse than rape.

    Is this real life??
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    Quote Originally Posted by force my hand View Post
    Jesus christ, murder is obviously worse than rape.

    Is this real life??
    Depends on the execution

    A murder can be done quick and painless, and even out of mercy.

    As Director Abbie said, a rape can be extremely traumatizing.

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    Brievik killed out of mercy!

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    ...

    DSK is very obviously getting this kind of punishment because someone more powerful than him wants him to. the details of the conviction are largely immaterial.

    Because, like Labcoat said, if you're paying to be one it pays back.
    that's not what i said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    ...

    Because, like Labcoat said, if you're paying to be one it pays back.
    that's not what i said.
    But thats what you imlpied, if im not mistaken here? What you said was "unless there is another party doing the paying". My conclusion is that you mean the victim is paying off the justice system to covinct DSK, so she can get money from the lawsuit trial herself. I know thats not what you said, but would it be wrong of me to exapnd on your statement?

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    This seems to be more of a problem with the Norwegian legal system as the maximum prison term is 21 years with 30 years for special cases of crimes against humanity.

    I'm wondering if the Norwegians truly believe in rehabilitation to that extent, or if their legal system has never had to deal with a crime of that magnitude. Norway is supposed to be one of the safest nations on Earth so the latter seems rather plausible. In any case, it seems perverted that a mass murderer can be free in 30 years and not have to either die in jail or be executed.

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    I'm wondering if the Norwegians truly believe in rehabilitation to that extent, or if their legal system has never had to deal with a crime of that magnitude. Norway is supposed to be one of the safest nations on Earth so the latter seems rather plausible. In any case, it seems perverted that a mass murderer can be free in 30 years and not have to either die in jail or be executed.
    I think this is the problem. I'm sure most Norwegians probably think any rehabilitation of Brevik would be absurd, what this man has done is unforgivable.

    I would not be surprised if they if just keep him in indefinitely after his "official" term is up, by claiming he is to much of a threat to society. It would be a safe bet to think that most people would "turn a blind eye" for such an extreme case.

    As Director Abbie said, a rape can be extremely traumatizing.
    No doubt, (but so is being stuck on an island with a mad gunman on the loose) nevertheless, at least a rape victim still has their life. While it will be very emotionally painful for a very long time, most people who are raped do eventually move on with their lives.

    Just their sanity and their will to live? Oh, that's okay then.
    Yes! All rape victims spend the rest of their lives sucidal and insane, please.
    Last edited by Bluenoir; 08-14-2011 at 09:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feltusk View Post
    I'm wondering if the Norwegians truly believe in rehabilitation to that extent, or if their legal system has never had to deal with a crime of that magnitude. Norway is supposed to be one of the safest nations on Earth so the latter seems rather plausible. In any case, it seems perverted that a mass murderer can be free in 30 years and not have to either die in jail or be executed.
    I think this is the problem. I'm sure most Norwegians probably think any rehabilitation of Brevik would be absurd, what this man has done is unforgivable.

    I would not be surprised if they if just keep him in indefinitely after his "official" term is up, by claiming he is to much of a threat to society. It would be a safe bet to think that most people would "turn a blind eye" for such an extreme case.
    I should hope that the Norwegians do something about Breivik. Since his crime is such a rare and heinous act, I wouldn't even really mind if there was an arranged "accident" to deal with him.

    At any rate, I'd still rather live in Norway which is often rated as the world's happiest country with one of the most intelligent populace, than the cesspool that is the rest of the world. The Scandinavian countries make the rest of the world, especially the US, seem like a collection of assbackwards regimes than comparable nations.

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    Thanks for the advice. Much apreciated

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewBorn STAR View Post
    Thanks for the advice. Much apreciated
    Why, are you planning something?

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