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Thread: ESE-EIE kindred relations (ESFj & ENFj)

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    Default ESE-EIE kindred relations (ESFj & ENFj)

    WARNiNG: SUPER LONG MESSAGE

    So I have been taking a course over the summer and have met this guy that I am currently studying with. Recently I have been being warned by nearly everyone that he has feelings for me. This idea is weird, because. . . well, how about I tell you why in detail from the beginning.

    One day we met each other in class. He was instructing his group how to properly use a tool that we were using in class that I had never used before. Noticing that he was already teaching others (and that he seemed to have stopped instructing them at the moment) I asked for help. He was really nice and came to my aid right away. He actually ended up pretty much staying at my table the rest of the night instructing me how to use the tool.

    The next class period he invited me to join his group, which I readily did since my group members had dropped out of the class. We ended up hitting it off and then he ended up giving me his number at the end of the class period (just in case I needed help studying.)

    I debated it for a while, because all of my former study buddies that I have studied with (that were guys) ended up having feelings for me and it made several awkward situations. . . I wasn't sure that I wanted to take that chance. But he seemed friendlier then the others had been so I told myself that since he was an extrovert that he probably already had a girlfriend and that he most certainly wouldn't fall for me. So I called him back and we started studying in the study room.

    One weekend we both ended up going to the school to see if the school was open and it wasn't so we decided to go to a coffee shop nearby to study. Lo and behold, two extroverts that have a challenging social life will = not much time studying and most of the time talking. So yeah, we ended up talking about just about everything. . . in fact, I made a random comment when we were talking about clothes, about how the style of his shirts seemed a bit dark to me. . . and how I like button downs on a guy.

    Yep. You guessed it. Next class period he walks in with a blue striped button down shirt and some nice pants. Tbh, I didn't think much of it at the time, but now it seems rather amusing.

    We kept going to the college to study and then we would end up going out to eat at a Chinese restaurant (a favorite of mine) or a coffee shop to get a bite to eat. He would insist that the books stay in the car while we eat and that we just talk. So, I figured why not? Just to keep my study buddy happy. . .

    One day in class he asks me if I know of any good BBQ places around so I tell him about a place that one of my friends owns. He says awesome. The next day when the college wasn't open, he asks me if I want to go get some BBQ. I go "ok" and then without thinking follow him into his car where he already has a drink that he's bought for me and where he suggests that he just drives me to the point of destination. So I hop on in and let him take me.

    On our way over we started talking about some pretty deep theological issues, on which we had quite the disagreement. At which point he says: "you know, we'd never work out. . ." I look at him and go, "yeah, we wouldn't." While my mind is going, why is his mind even there in the first place?

    We then go in and enjoy the BBQ and then we start heading back to the college, where he then suggests that we get some studying done and that his place is right down the street. So I say to myself: "hmmm. . . not sure that's the best idea, but why not?" (We'd only known each other for a few weeks. . . weird.)

    So we end up going into his apartment and studying. I honestly thought nothing of it until my friend pointed out that study buddies really don't do that. . . which my friendly extrovert self goes: "but extrovert study buddies do!"

    After that I pulled back a bit and we studied a few times at the college campus together. One of the times there, I end up remembering that one of the first things out of his mouth when we had met had been, "you're fb friends with your professor but not me?!?" So I decided to friend him. The odd thing was I asked him what his last name was, and instead of giving it to me, he goes, "you should know what it is." So I spend a good half-hour at least trying to find him on fb, with him not pulling a single muscle to help out, which I thought was odd. . . finally, I find him, and lo and behold. . . he's engaged! Talk about shock!

    He was clearly watching me to see what my reaction was and he goes: "you look disappointed." And I'm sitting there thinking, 'in all the times we were together these last three weeks you never even mentioned that you had a finance. . ." so I confront him about it, and he goes: "I said it would never work between us." And I sit there thinking, yeah, but. . . idk, don't engaged guys usually proclaim that they're hitched to the world around them? I mean, not saying anything just seems a bit weird to me. . .

    So. . . after that I think about it and go, well, he's engaged so I guess since it's out in the open we can do things together and not worry about whether we have feelings for each other

    A few days later we end up late at the college again, both of us being hungry and he asks me if I'd rather eat at his place or go to a particular fancy restaurant. Considering that I'm beginning to not trust him as much, I vote for the restaurant.

    While there he sits close up next to me on the bench and broaches the subject of "love". () in which he asks me about whether I would be willing to change for whomever I loved. . . . it was an odd question. He then started talking about how he believes that when you love someone that you will change for them and that slowly and surely the two shall become one because they changed for the other person. I insisted that if you have any self-respect that no matter how much you may love someone, you will not change unless you actually can change and not feel like you violated your conscience. It is true, that the more you love someone, the easier it is to change for them. But again I insisted that true love is rare, beautiful and far between.

    While eating I felt uncomfortable about what we were doing. The lighting was dim and the music romantic while the food gourmet, and everything just seemed. . . wrong. At the end of the meal he asked me what was making me so quiet and I told him that I had a thing for him but that I just didn't feel comfortable with it. In which he said, "well yeah, we would never work out." It was quiet for a bit and we just kind of held eye contact for a while until the waitress came out. Next thing I know, he's paid for the meal and he's asking me if I want to go back to his place to study. . . at that point I was feeling rather miserable and uncomfortable so I said, "no, I think we should call it a night." So we went home our separate ways.

    After that I knew I had to really pull back emotionally or else I'd fall for a guy that I knew wasn't my type. . . so I started letting him do almost all of the talking. He got a bit angry with me for a bit since he thought that one of my friends had convinced me to avoid him when in all seriousness, I was busy. . . I was just not making him a high priority in my week like I had before.

    We keep studying every now and then, and then talking in class. He keeps calling trying to make up times that we can get together and I keep having something that I have to do, (most of the time). Until I realize, I kind of need to study with him if I want to keep my grades up.

    During that time (one of the times we got together) he says to me: "if you want to dump me, you can." I was surprised because I had actually been considering that, and it was like he could read my mind. . . but he looked so sad that I actually felt sorry for him. . . so I didn't know what to say.

    Later on that night I decided that the benefits of having him were more important then the cons of him maybe having feelings for me and getting hurt. So we started hanging out more and studying again.

    Next thing I knew, for some odd reason I invited him to my place and we were swimming and jogging together regularly as well as studying. . . we would have long talks about theology, psychology and our worldviews, and the differences between the way we looked at things, (myself being a conservative Christian and him being, not so much. . .)

    It was enjoyable and I was learning a lot of the material when one day my professor ends up asking me if I realized that I was practically dating an engaged guy. And I go: "no, we're just study buddies. . ." And he's like, that's what you think. . . you two have been out to eat how many times? You've been at each others place how many times? And I started realizing that it had been several times. . . and then he asks how many weeks have you known him? And I begin to realize that it's only been about six weeks. . .

    Then, one of my girl friends from class told me that she had been talking to him one day recently and had said: "You know, I think that you should find yourself another girl" (talking about his finance), and then he says: "I've been thinking about it."

    Later on that day in class he says to her (in an argument, they argue all the time. . . ) that he wasn't dating her or I so why did x, y, z, matter? And then one of the guys listening in from our group pipes up and says: "you aren't dating one of them yet. . ." in which my study buddy ends up smirking, then blushing and then looking my way to. . .

    Confusing. . .

    The other day he told me that his finance is back in town and then he invited me over to study and to meet her. So I went and got to meet her, but then she went into a back room so that we could study. . . while studying we started talking about our differences in opinion on our worldviews, (yeah, he brings up this subject a lot. . .) and he ended up saying: "you know, to you our differences are huge, but to me they're small issues. They don't really matter. . ." he then cocks his head over my way as though he's trying to read a response from me. . . but I was confused as to what to say. . . I was thinking that obviously they don't matter. . .

    Anyway, this all has been confusing to me. . . it's almost like he likes me, and yet, he doesn't. . . tbh, I'm quite confused as what to make of everything. . . if he does like me then why hasn't he said anything? And if he does, what should I do about it?

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    Um don't you think what you are doing is kind of inappropriate? He's pretty much cheating emotionally on his fiance with you and you are letting him do it. Regardless of how you feel about him he is engaged. If he doesn't have the decency to stop himself from spending too much time with him you should. Better your grades to suffer than to help someone cheat on his fiance. I mean really wouldn't you be upset to find out your fiance was doing this with some other girl? Seems like you should probably find another study buddy or study on your own.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

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    Yeah, I was wondering about that. . . but he hasn't "said" anything, so for all I know there could be completely nothing there. . . . and if there's nothing there, then why should I cut off the friendship/studying time?

    Idk, are there any EIE's on this forum? I'm really curious (since I know that you all can be similar to us ESE's) could this simply be a close friendship in your eyes? Because I can totally see an ESE doing something like this and being completely emotionally detached (in the romantic sense of the word).

    As far as him considering dumping his finance, I think it may be because he's simply scared of a long-term relationship and the commitment that's involved. I'm not really sure if it has anything to do with me. . .

    But to be honest, I'm one of the worst at reading people's romantic intentions. I can pick up on signals but then I have a hard time putting the puzzle pieces together.

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    He wants to dump his girlfriend for you, at least short-term. So, either deal with this negatively (tell him you don't want to have anything to do with it), or positively (tell him he should dump his girlfriend for you). It's doubtful that his attitude has anything to do with being scared of long-term relationships, if he really is engaged.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    But he hasn't brought the subject up, so what do I do, bring it up myself?

    And we've both agreed that it wouldn't work out. . . so isn't that the same as a no?

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    Then stop hanging out with him, but since you probably like him, that won't happen.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    My best advice is to stay away from him, especially if you feel like you're developing feelings for him. It sounds like this guy doesn't know what he wants, which is never a good sign. He probably intends on keeping you around for his own selfish reasons. I doubt anything good will come of it & you may end up getting hurt. Unfortunately, Beta NF's are guilty of this kind of wishy-washy iffy behavior, while never feeling absolute in their decisions. It's classic victim behavior.

    Oh, and it's never a good idea to become involved with anyone who's either in a relationship or has just gotten out of one. There's just too much emotional baggage lingering around for the relationship to be normal.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Then stop hanging out with him, but since you probably like him, that won't happen.
    this
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    So you're saying that I should completely avoid him? But how is that possible? Because not only are we in class together this semester, were together in the same class again this next semester as well. . .

    Oh gee. This is what I get for studying with a guy. . . . never again.

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    Whatever happens, don't blame yourself for any of the fallout

    If I liked him, I'd personally go for him; it might crash and burn, but it could be a hell of a ride, and if the engagement falls apart, so be it - better for it to fall apart then than for him to be trapped in a marriage that's bad for both parties...

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    Be honest & straight up with him and tell him that you don't feel comfortable studying or hanging out with him outside of class anymore because he has a fiancee & it's flat out inappropriate.

    If he comes back with a counter argument saying something like "there's nothing wrong with it, we're just studying & we'd never work out, blah, blah" then just say that the two of you are spending way too much time together then normal for study buddies & that it's wrong no matter how you look at it. Tell him that you don't want to run the risk of developing feelings for him & that you'd like him to respect that.

    Watch out for him attempting to manipulate you're feelings on the matter because believe me, he'll definitely try. Beta NF's are masters at those games.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    It's always possible that he and his fiance are the kind of couple who are extremely open-minded about intimate friendships outside of their own relationship... I don't see anything intrinsically "inappropriate" about this situation. From my perspective, the guy shouldn't be engaged in the first place if he is going to chase other girls (IF he is actually interested in you - and it sounds like he is). Better to have a bad relationship (bad meaning with uncommitted partners) fall apart BEFORE making the mistake of legalizing it.
    Anyways, do what you want. Just be wary of potential shit-tons of drama.

    You might ask him what he and his fiance are "like." Find out a bit more about their relationship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    It sounds like this guy doesn't know what he wants, which is never a good sign. He probably intends on keeping you around for his own selfish reasons. I doubt anything good will come of it & you may end up getting hurt. Unfortunately, Beta NF's are guilty of this kind of wishy-washy iffy behavior, while never feeling absolute in their decisions. It's classic victim behavior.
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    All of the EIEs I have met are extremely manipulative. I knew one EIE that would try and get every girl he met to like him just for for the fun of it. He was very successful at it too. I don't think I have met a girl (who had met him) who didn't like him at one point or another. Whenever he was trying to impress his guy friends he would call the girl a slut or a whore or something extremely cutting at their insecurities and many of them would ignore what he said or would just laugh it off thinking he is joking. I have seriously never met someone so good at manipulating people in my life. It made me sick somewhat. To apply this to your story he may just be manipulating you for the fun of it. Knowing that you will never be in a serious relationship with you. I think what you described really isn't abnormal to an EIE.

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    Oh yes they are manipulative. I bet he has a thousand stories of this type of thing. I totally expect him to back out and be thankful when he does because do you really want to get into a relationship with that type of person? I totally couldn't trust him.
    When EIEs are really taken by someone they are much more subtle, IMO.

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    Whatever happens, don't blame yourself for any of the fallout

    If I liked him, I'd personally go for him; it might crash and burn, but it could be a hell of a ride, and if the engagement falls apart, so be it - better for it to fall apart then than for him to be trapped in a marriage that's bad for both parties...
    Thanks for being supportive! You're a sweetie-pie!


    Be honest & straight up with him and tell him that you don't feel comfortable studying or hanging out with him outside of class anymore because he has a fiancee & it's flat out inappropriate.
    Mmmm. . . oh that's hard for me to do. . . :sigh: I'm terrible at putting my foot down. . .

    If he comes back with a counter argument saying something like "there's nothing wrong with it, we're just studying & we'd never work out, blah, blah" then just say that the two of you are spending way too much time together then normal for study buddies & that it's wrong no matter how you look at it. Tell him that you don't want to run the risk of developing feelings for him & that you'd like him to respect that.

    Watch out for him attempting to manipulate you're feelings on the matter because believe me, he'll definitely try. Beta NF's are masters at those games.
    True. . . yeah, I probably should do this. . . but it completely goes against my grain. I "HATE" doing things that people dislike. . .

    It's always possible that he and his fiance are the kind of couple who are extremely open-minded about intimate friendships outside of their own relationship... I don't see anything intrinsically "inappropriate" about this situation. From my perspective, the guy shouldn't be engaged in the first place if he is going to chase other girls (IF he is actually interested in you - and it sounds like he is). Better to have a bad relationship (bad meaning with uncommitted partners) fall apart BEFORE making the mistake of legalizing it.
    Anyways, do what you want. Just be wary of potential shit-tons of drama.

    You might ask him what he and his fiance are "like." Find out a bit more about their relationship.
    Yeah, I was wondering about this. . . but it honestly doesn't make me feel any more comfortable with the situation. . .

    All of the EIEs I have met are extremely manipulative. I knew one EIE that would try and get every girl he met to like him just for for the fun of it. He was very successful at it too. I don't think I have met a girl (who had met him) who didn't like him at one point or another. Whenever he was trying to impress his guy friends he would call the girl a slut or a whore or something extremely cutting at their insecurities and many of them would ignore what he said or would just laugh it off thinking he is joking. I have seriously never met someone so good at manipulating people in my life. It made me sick somewhat. To apply this to your story he may just be manipulating you for the fun of it. Knowing that you will never be in a serious relationship with you. I think what you described really isn't abnormal to an EIE.
    Yeah, I've noticed this. Because even with my EIE brother being as nice as he is, when he wants to manipulate someone, he sure can! (Of course, being ESE I can do the same. . .)

    And yeah, he could be trying. . . I've been wondering if I should turn the tables on him. I may be slow at "getting" what people are trying to do around me, but I know how to manipulate when I want to. . . I tried a little mind game with him the other day just to see if I could, and it totally worked. . . yeah, I pretty much could play him for a fool. . . and it's getting more tempting as time goes on.

    Oh yes they are manipulative. I bet he has a thousand stories of this type of thing. I totally expect him to back out and be thankful when he does because do you really want to get into a relationship with that type of person? I totally couldn't trust him.
    When EIEs are really taken by someone they are much more subtle, IMO.
    Well, it's not like we've done anything. . . so yeah, who doesn't have thousands of stories of this? I know I do at least. . . and I'm only 20!

    It would actually be nice if he backed out, but not sure that that's the plan. . . quite honestly, I'm the type of girl that many men would call a trophy. . . I've never had sex, never kissed and never held hands with any guy. . . (not that there's been no interest, or men who have tried in the past) it's just that I never got to the point where I could trust a guy enough to do any of those things with.

    And yeah, my EIE brother has a girlfriend and he is totally devoted to her. . . they aren't allowed to see each other for another year, but he writes to her a letter every day in a little journal that he plans to give her when they get back together. . . (so sweet. )

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    No offense, but this guy seems like a total nutcase. Id personally never give off such incorrect signals to someone because Im aware of how I come off to others, and am aware of attractions between people, plus, I can easily see how a relationship will devellop. If hes EIE, most likely, he can too. Hes playing with your head IMO, I mean mindfucking you major. I suggest being very direct with him and address the problem up front. That outta be the solution, because hell be forced to reval his hand of cards and if not youll know hes an indirect nutcase and you dont know who you're really dealing with here.

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    Well that's the thing. . . . he actually asked one day what I thought about him because he said that he wasn't sure. . . but then a few days later he said that he thought that he knew me better then I knew myself. . . so I'm honestly unsure of what that means.

    But yeah, he's kind of confusing. . . :sigh:

    I'm so naive. . .

    And yeah, I think I might actually try that first. . . asking him what is going on in his head. Because whatever it is, it confuses me like crazy!

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    What I mean is that maybe you should ask him what his feelings for you are. Because hes constantly putting the burden of "proving" your feelings on you.

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    Hmmm. . . that isn't too forward?

    Ok. . . :gulp:

    I can do this. . . . . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by yellow82 View Post
    It was enjoyable and I was learning a lot of the material when one day my professor ends up asking me if I realized that I was practically dating an engaged guy. And I go: "no, we're just study buddies. . ." And he's like, that's what you think. . . you two have been out to eat how many times? You've been at each others place how many times? And I started realizing that it had been several times. . . and then he asks how many weeks have you known him? And I begin to realize that it's only been about six weeks. . .
    If your professor realizes that you are pretty much dating I think loud warning sirens should be going off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    My best advice is to stay away from him, especially if you feel like you're developing feelings for him. It sounds like this guy doesn't know what he wants, which is never a good sign. He probably intends on keeping you around for his own selfish reasons. I doubt anything good will come of it & you may end up getting hurt. Unfortunately, Beta NF's are guilty of this kind of wishy-washy iffy behavior, while never feeling absolute in their decisions. It's classic victim behavior.


    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Be honest & straight up with him and tell him that you don't feel comfortable studying or hanging out with him outside of class anymore because he has a fiancee & it's flat out inappropriate.

    If he comes back with a counter argument saying something like "there's nothing wrong with it, we're just studying & we'd never work out, blah, blah" then just say that the two of you are spending way too much time together then normal for study buddies & that it's wrong no matter how you look at it. Tell him that you don't want to run the risk of developing feelings for him & that you'd like him to respect that.

    Watch out for him attempting to manipulate you're feelings on the matter because believe me, he'll definitely try. Beta NF's are masters at those games.


    Quote Originally Posted by yellow82 View Post
    Well that's the thing. . . . he actually asked one day what I thought about him because he said that he wasn't sure. . . but then a few days later he said that he thought that he knew me better then I knew myself. . . so I'm honestly unsure of what that means.
    I think sometimes people ask because they genuinely want to know and other times people ask because they want to hear that someone likes them (because they already know) or they want to make you vulnerable.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Bardia0
    http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Bardia0

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    So many ethicals in here and I can't kiss anyone.

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    If your professor realizes that you are pretty much dating I think loud warning sirens should be going off.
    Yeah, that was a big wake-up call for me. . . one of the biggest reasons I started this convo.


    I think sometimes people ask because they genuinely want to know and other times people ask because they want to hear that someone likes them (because they already know) or they want to make you vulnerable.
    Huh. I've never thought about it like that before. . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumer1an View Post
    All of the EIEs I have met are extremely manipulative. I knew one EIE that would try and get every girl he met to like him just for for the fun of it. He was very successful at it too. I don't think I have met a girl (who had met him) who didn't like him at one point or another. Whenever he was trying to impress his guy friends he would call the girl a slut or a whore or something extremely cutting at their insecurities and many of them would ignore what he said or would just laugh it off thinking he is joking. I have seriously never met someone so good at manipulating people in my life. It made me sick somewhat. To apply this to your story he may just be manipulating you for the fun of it. Knowing that you will never be in a serious relationship with you. I think what you described really isn't abnormal to an EIE.
    I think manipulation has more to do with enneagram type than sociotype. I'm an EIE and I'm definetly not manipulative. Perhaps this EIE was an E2?
    EIE tritype 5w4, 4w5, 9w1


    As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being.
    Carl Jung, "Memories, Dreams, Reflections", 1962

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morcheeba View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sumer1an View Post
    All of the EIEs I have met are extremely manipulative. I knew one EIE that would try and get every girl he met to like him just for for the fun of it. He was very successful at it too. I don't think I have met a girl (who had met him) who didn't like him at one point or another. Whenever he was trying to impress his guy friends he would call the girl a slut or a whore or something extremely cutting at their insecurities and many of them would ignore what he said or would just laugh it off thinking he is joking. I have seriously never met someone so good at manipulating people in my life. It made me sick somewhat. To apply this to your story he may just be manipulating you for the fun of it. Knowing that you will never be in a serious relationship with you. I think what you described really isn't abnormal to an EIE.
    I think manipulation has more to do with enneagram type than sociotype. I'm an EIE and I'm definetly not manipulative. Perhaps this EIE was an E2?
    I actually would have said E3w2. He seemed like a political figure almost. He was very much a leader and someone a lot of people looked up too. But at the same time, I dont really subscribe to enneagram or care for it very much. Most of his tendencies would probably be more or less due to his extreme narcissism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morcheeba View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sumer1an View Post
    All of the EIEs I have met are extremely manipulative. I knew one EIE that would try and get every girl he met to like him just for for the fun of it. He was very successful at it too. I don't think I have met a girl (who had met him) who didn't like him at one point or another. Whenever he was trying to impress his guy friends he would call the girl a slut or a whore or something extremely cutting at their insecurities and many of them would ignore what he said or would just laugh it off thinking he is joking. I have seriously never met someone so good at manipulating people in my life. It made me sick somewhat. To apply this to your story he may just be manipulating you for the fun of it. Knowing that you will never be in a serious relationship with you. I think what you described really isn't abnormal to an EIE.
    I think manipulation has more to do with enneagram type than sociotype. I'm an EIE and I'm definetly not manipulative. Perhaps this EIE was an E2?
    I agree as Im not that manipulative either, I think the 3W2s are manipulative, I knew a ENFj 3W2 guy on another site who had been some kind of a gang leader who was EXTREMELY manipulative, all he cared about was what people thought, though usually people saw through his manipulation though. Thats typical of unhealthy threes, to think people are dumber than they really are and try to fool them. I think 1s are the best manipulators.
    Last edited by Typhon; 07-30-2011 at 02:37 AM.

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    Everyone telling you to stay away is completely right. I especially agree with Bardia's post ... I'm sorry, but even though you might think things are innocent and whatnot, you are still participating in something that is clearly not right, out of bounds... how would you feel if you were the fiance? It's really uncool. He shouldn't be doing this AT ALL, stringing both of you along... he's obviously interested in you but not sure whether it would work/be better than his fiance and him... he's also probably trying to boost his own ego and having fun with this.

    I have to admit though, unhealthy Beta NFs ARE definitely masters of emotional manipulation. I've done it myself and I've hurt a few people (or more than a few) in the process. Don't fall prey to it, take yourself out of the picture.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post

    I have to admit though, unhealthy Beta NFs ARE definitely masters of emotional manipulation. I've done it myself and I've hurt a few people (or more than a few) in the process.
    Your profile says you are SEE.

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    I spose I should give y'all an update. Ever since I read that people were pretty much all against it, (the whole friendship deal), I've backed off and haven't called him since. . . to me it really was an innocent friendship, (maybe an ESE thing?) but through your comments I started realizing that I was probably giving him the wrong impression.

    He's noticed. . . and he asked me why I hadn't called him for a week and why I've backed off so much, and I said: "I have? Oh. . . I'm sorry. I didn't notice. I've been busy." And just left it at that. . . he was like, "yeah, you have, ever since you met my fiance. . ."

    If you looked in his eyes you could tell that he was upset, but as all ENFj's can do, they can be very good at hiding it through their facial expressions, gestures, and tone of voice. But eyes don't lie. . . and the fact that he even brought it up means that it was haunting him to some various degree.

    Honestly, idk quite what to make of him. I know that if I reached out, I could get him to break it off with his fiance in a millisecond. . . but he's honestly not my type. . . and I'll hopefully be with one of my best friends growing up soon [ENFp]) So why does he even try? The HUGE difference in our worldviews is just way too big of a hurdle to jump. . . it's like trying to run a race and win with a hundred more pounds on you then the other runners. . .

    I kind of feel bad for him though, because I actually do think that he cares for me, much more then he would ever admit to, (unless he knew that I cared back, which he knows that I don't.) So for him it must really suck right now. . . I mean, he's been going on "walks" recently. . . "just to think". . . and his facial expressions have been rather gloomy of late. . . honestly, I feel kind of sorry for him. . . and I would give him a hug if I wasn't in the middle of everything. . .

    The fiance thing is something that is an issue. . . but if he can't be faithful to her then I'd rather it come out now (for her sake) then for her to find out after they get married. . . so in a way I don't care. You ask me to put myself in her place. I'd rather know that he's a player before I got married then after. . . I don't think that it's my fault at all. I've been clear about my intentions since the beginning. It's just a friendship. It's his fault if he falls for me. Not mine.

    He does have good qualities to him though. . . he's not all bad. (And his fiance's a case. . . ) I'm sure he means well, but he's got some growing up to do. . . especially in the area of women.

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