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Thread: Eternal Sonata

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    Default Eternal Sonata Type Diagnosis Game



    Based on this video, what do you think the types of the characters are?

    Refer to The Semantics of the Information Elements for help.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 07-15-2011 at 09:50 AM.

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    Oh come on folks.

    Allegretto: SLI
    Polka: IEE
    Frederick: EII
    Falsetto: SLE

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    I reviewed a book of Chopin's letters. He appears to have actually been an EII. Si HA is everywhere: "Our purpose in life is to help each other achieve health and satisfaction!".

    SLE EM is out. He's not that aggressive.
    LSI EM is out... he's not that calculating.
    ESI EM... doesn't seem that obsessed with personal convictions.
    ESE EM... he doesn't talk much about ethics.
    LSE EM... this is a possibility. No wait, this was Jesus' EM... never mind.
    SLI EM... where is the visual artistry? The medical expertise?
    SEE EM... talk of right... where? And, SEE EMs tend to be pretty buff and/or competitive.
    ILI EM... this is a possibility. This type is very taciturn, after all.
    The NF EMs... I don't see the emphasis on learning required for NeFi. Possibly a tossup between EIE and IEI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Now that is just intimidating. I don't think I'm going to continue on with this unless people show support for me.

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    Samuel the Gabriel H. MisterNi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Now that is just intimidating. I don't think I'm going to continue on with this unless people show support for me.
    lol don't mind Ashton, he gets off on acting like that. Plus he doesn't like you for whatever personal reasons.

    I've never played Eternal Sonata but it seems really Betaish to me judging from that video.

    IEE Ne Creative Type

    Some and role lovin too. () I too...
    !!!!!!

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    The characters you like are your own quadra, and the characters you don't aren't.

    Socionics Law, handed down by the Duchess of Lithuania herself.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    Samuel the Gabriel H. MisterNi's Avatar
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    Poppycock. There are plenty of people from my opposing quadra that I'm quite fond of or at least have pleasant relations with.

    IEE Ne Creative Type

    Some and role lovin too. () I too...
    !!!!!!

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    OK, I'm satisfied. On with the show.

    @MisterNi:
    Ashton doesn't like me because he has intellectual humility issues, and by the systems I've made that fact is a little more plain than without them. He fears persecution.

    @Galen: I do tend to find it hard to like SEEs and SLEs. However I also tend to find ESFJs kinda... mmm bland. I do favor my benefactor and beneficiary by wide margins. Not too much fan of INTPs... more so of ENTJs. INTJs in games/anime are mostly the same... all LII-LSIs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    INTJs in games/anime are mostly the same... all LII-LSIs.
    I couldn't agree more.

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    Eternal Sonata is an enigma. The developers put Eternal Sonata out with little comment other than that Frederick Chopin, the famed composer of the 19th century, is in a fantasy world somehow, and the point of the game is to discover why he is there. Players who finished the game were quick to emphasize its unusual plotline. A spoiler tag isn't really required... you can't read anything about the game without coming upon the catchline: the game's setting is the dying dream of Frederick Chopin, the composer, as he lies in a coma.

    Understanding the circumstances of the setting allows that the game be apprehended for what it really is: part political commentary, part diodrama. Each (main) character represents an aspect of Chopin's personality, given shape by particular events and people in his life.

    Count Waltz



    Waltz, I believe, represents Chopin's id. He represents the tendencies for self-concern and preservation that Chopin did not have. However, he also represents the flaws in Chopin's id image that were so critical to Chopin's denial of his id. Waltz is reckless, impetuous, and manipulative. His status as a count reflects Chopin's hostility and disdain for the nobility. Like Beethoven, Chopin wanted for his native Poland to be free of its aristocratic oppressors, which like Waltz hailed from an indifferent foreign land. Waltz represents Chopin's positivist side, the side that wants to bow down to and accept the Russian oppression. As with the real id, Waltz is essentially a weak man who is dominated by the understanding that he is such, but unrepentant for what he sees as authentic good sense and self-preservation in the face of a cripplingly altruistic alternative. He is not truly insane or psychotic in that he sees the world quite realistically, although out of inability to bear the burden of knowing his weakness he exaggerates his own ability and ignores his shortcomings.

    In the preceding scene, we see key indicators of Waltz's type. He deftly answers the criticisms leveled against him by Chopin's party by ripping apart their pretensions. Because Waltz has no pretensions of his own, he has nothing to defend against and as such, is free to attack the pretensions of others. However Waltz is at heart an indifferent social actor and it is this indifference which proves his most serious shortcoming. The ability to perceive the intentions of others and to compare the ethics of their actions is indicative of strong F. His decision to make war -- indeed, his decision to pick the very fights which cost him everything -- is indicative of exalted Se. Waltz sees himself as fit to decide what should stay, and what should be destroyed, a sign of Ti taken to narcissistic heights. Like Hitler, he prefers self-destruction to admission of defeat.

    Some inferences:
    - ENFJ is opposite INFJ. The contrary partner is, in essence, the position of the id. (I wish I understood how Augusta et al concluded that, although I suspect they just lifted it from Jung's assertion (which he never explained) that the id functions as a parallel process to the ego with the same function as master, but taking the opposite attitude ... this is what Model B is predicated on. Certainly my id is a bit obsessed with money and unfair gain... I guess that validates ENTJ ha ha). Perhaps the correct way of interpreting Model B is that the id's weak functions (the strong functions of the ego) are in control, with the strong super-id and super-ego functions as constant reminders to the id of how inferior it is?
    - Waltz uses a mix of cunning and script to disarm his attackers. Where the conversation turns to mineral powder, he retorts with a list of rehearsed excuses and populist critiques. As much as possible, he attempts to develop a faux rapport by appealing to the cynicism of his accusers. It's the attack on his motivations which draws him into discussion of his id, which exposes him and leaves him vulnerable. However, it also brings him into polarity with the group, a position where they finally understand one another. This leaves him open to sympathy with Polka. Allegreto conflicts with him, dismissing his super-id's fantasy (expressed element-wise, "an endless stream of Se will sustain Ti substance for eternity") with a dose of hard-hitting delta ST reality. This is apparently more than he can stand, as the super-id impulse takes over and draws him into conflict.
    - Might the position of the conflictor be a check on the id? Or is it the trigger that draws the id into consciousness and validates its position?

    The scene with Waltz seems to have been very well thought out. I would go so far as to suggest that Polka was put in the game just to coerce Waltz into reflecting on his weaknesses, which are intended to represent repressed reflection by Chopin on his own declining condition. The dream world might well be an escape created by the id to escape the despair over its own doom, sealed by the inescapable forces arraigned against it. Waltz's defeat, likewise, is paralleled by the triumph of the Chopin's disease over his body.

    Waltz is of course a sociopath. However, the character is realistic enough: he reminds me of a number of inhospitable, impulsive, and deeply arrogant people I have known. It is the trait of teleological selfish discordance, the conviction that selfish ambitions justify the pursuit of conflict and extremism. I would say he compares very favorably, in fact, with Muammar Gadhafi.

    A number of people have argued that the scene has a double meaning, that the game Eternal Sonata is intended to be just as much a political commentary on global warming and the public's response to it as it is an exploration of Chopin. In this respect Waltz represents the position of irresponsible industry, as heedless of the harm it wrecks as it is careless. However, environmental concerns are not new: they did, in fact, originate in Chopin's time, as private industry exploited the development of the coal furnace, which powered steam engines, aggressively. The "mineral powder" Waltz seeks is an allegory for non-renewable resources and the dangers inherent in their abuse.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 07-21-2011 at 04:48 PM.

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