View Poll Results: What's my type?

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  • EIE

    5 18.52%
  • IEI

    3 11.11%
  • ILE

    14 51.85%
  • SLE

    0 0%
  • ESE

    1 3.70%
  • SEI

    0 0%
  • LIE

    3 11.11%
  • Other

    1 3.70%
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Thread: Taking Inventory: Aleksei's type poll

  1. #1
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Default Taking Inventory: Aleksei's type poll.

    I'm not really doubting my type at this point; but I'm curious about exactly what the forum's general opinion is on my type. So I'm putting up a poll.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

  2. #2
    Cat King Cole's Avatar
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    OBviously ESI brah.
    Know I'm mistyped?


    Why I am now.
    Why I was , once.

    DISCLAIMER
    The statements expressed in this signature may not necessarily reflect reality.

  3. #3
    Fuck-up NewBorn STAR's Avatar
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    I voted Lie

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    fka lungs ashlesha's Avatar
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    my opinion isnt very strong but its where ive been sitting for awhile

  5. #5
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    You are hard to psychoanalyze because I haven't really gotten enough of your essence yet.

    I could see a fi polr entp I suppose.

  6. #6
    ഗന᎕ᒹ ±ᗉᚔXᙂഗ woofwoofl's Avatar
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    sorry, sexy Aleksei - had to go Ne-ILE for you!

    I tried to respond to all that you posted towards me, and I was unable to get stuff done with the thinking at all - aside from me having to put you as separate from Golden, Gilly, and the EIEs I've met in person, I had the same thing where I get along with you great, but it's damn near impossible for me to think in such a way that I'd find to make sense for you, and perhaps vice-versa... this sort of thing has happened, and is happening currently between me and Ne-ILEs (it's a bit rougher with Ti-ILEs)...

    I got weak from you in the chatbox, when you talked about being up for that huge amount of time, but I don't know if it's enough to set as a Polr (you also went in explicit detail about enjoying the coffee flavored drink, right down to all of its specific contents, the flavor and texture of the crunchy stuff; if I'm just cooking for me, then food is healthy and cost-effective and I require no more, I go fancy when cooking for others though)... I'm trying to remember the moment that I swore you had (you asked me for it, I want to be able to deliver), but my brain is completely shitting the bed here...

    I don't feel a usage of F from you that would place it in an Ego block; I'm in a Serious quadra, I might not be connecting with it as much as I should, but I'd expect a different sort of F from an EIE (the EIE girl I saw a few days back would be a huge contrast, I couldn't make much sense of that kinda ups and downs stuff, absolutely bewildering, but some of the things she said about passion were pretty profound and stuck in my mind)...

    I see no reason for personalities to be completely set in stone (they're not), so if you can find a way to buff the shit out of your and your , then you'll be in Beta for sure

  7. #7
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    Maybe alpha NT

  8. #8
    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    ILE. You use Ti in an irritating, blocked-with-Ne way, like Bolt and some ILEs I know IRL. I guess it could be Ti-DS, as if you actually meant, "These are my theories, correct me please!"

    You also miss subtleties and inflections in other people's posts too often for me to consider you Fe-ego. I can see Fe-HA with your name-calling and throwing around of insults though, which you might claim as "beta behaviour", but it's always seemed a bit off and forced to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

  9. #9
    In Transition Raver's Avatar
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    You are ILE just like Gilly. You confuse your HA for your dominant function and it's actually quite hilarious seeing you over use it. The PoLR is also quite evident in a lot of your posts.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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  10. #10
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    Ti-ILE, you don't have that directed, energetic EJ approach but rather more spontaneous, carefree manner about you that is common for EPs

    Why you're Ti subtype imho is that you seem to get sort of fiery and aggressive when you run into disagreements and have a propensity to state your opinions categorically, with confidence. Ne-ILEs have a more of this free-flowing, more harmonious attitude. You do remind me of Ineffable but he is stronger on Ti, you're more Ne-ish but still correspond to what I know of Ti-ILEs the best.

    but not like it matters much, just stay EIE and come hang out on beta forum

  11. #11
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    I wasn't gonna actually start a discussion, but what the hell.

    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    ILE. You use Ti in an irritating, blocked-with-Ne way, like Bolt and some ILEs I know IRL.
    How do you mean?

    I guess it could be Ti-DS, as if you actually meant, "These are my theories, correct me please!"
    Ahh, here's the crux of the matter. you'd expect an EIE's Ti to actually appear sufficiently weak to be suggestive, correct? Which is reasonable, except that if the EIE in question is an image type (3 especially), and immersed in an NT atmosphere (like a debate forum), they'd carefully conceal the fact they have trouble with it, lest they be consider morons, non?

    You also miss subtleties and inflections in other people's posts too often for me to consider you Fe-ego.
    Like?
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

  12. #12
    Quack quack Hemoglobin's Avatar
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    Total ILI-Ni

  13. #13
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hemoglobin View Post
    Total ILI-Ni
    DINGDINGDING WE HAVE A WINNER!
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

  14. #14
    Quack quack Hemoglobin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hemoglobin View Post
    Total ILI-Ni
    DINGDINGDING WE HAVE A WINNER!
    I am THE BEST!

    What do I get as a prize?

    A sensual massage?

  15. #15
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hemoglobin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    DINGDINGDING WE HAVE A WINNER!
    I am THE BEST!

    What do I get as a prize?

    A sensual massage?
    Yes. With oil and candles and soothing music and all your little heart desires.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

  16. #16
    Quack quack Hemoglobin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hemoglobin View Post

    I am THE BEST!

    What do I get as a prize?

    A sensual massage?
    Yes. With oil and candles and soothing music and all your little heart desires.
    Bring along a Dance Dance Revolution machine and I'll throw my uterus at you.
    Last edited by Hemoglobin; 07-14-2011 at 05:38 PM.

  17. #17
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Done.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

  18. #18
    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    ILE. You use Ti in an irritating, blocked-with-Ne way, like Bolt and some ILEs I know IRL.
    How do you mean?
    Well, kind of like your second paragraph actually.

    Ahh, here's the crux of the matter. you'd expect an EIE's Ti to actually appear sufficiently weak to be suggestive, correct? Which is reasonable, except that if the EIE in question is an image type (3 especially), and immersed in an NT atmosphere (like a debate forum), they'd carefully conceal the fact they have trouble with it, lest they be consider morons, non?
    You use Ti in a way that to me seems careless, which is something I generally associate with alpha Ti. It's really a subjective, NiFe-ish description, which is hard to verbalise. *shrugs*

    My main objection is that your use of Ti is flexible rather than inflexible, which IMO is a better description than strong/weak, because let's face it, Ti-ego =/= non-moronic or intelligent or correct. You pick and choose reasoning to justify your stance, seemingly "on-the-fly", which is how an inactive EIE member of this forum I know IRL described the difference between my Ti-HA and her Ti-DS. Flexible use of a function is producing >> accepting, and creative >>>>> DS.

    I like that we both agree you write lots of shit, we just disagree on your level of self-awareness.

    I also don't see aristocracy, or much Ni/Se valuing. Every time this comes up, you respond with "I am so!"... do you have good examples?

    As for misunderstandings, I'm not too keen on trawling through all your posts, so yoou can take it or leave it.


    Either way, Aleksei, it's obvious that the image you're attempting to project isn't working, given that if we exclude your self-typing, no one who's voted so far has typed you EIE, and no one feels like you belong in their quadra (and seemingly not out of pure dislike - I suspect it's more due to a feeling of "unnaturalness").

    So you're probably an EIE who postures too much with unnatural Ti, who's not very good at their Fe base (in that "talking about yourself" thread you say you think you have lower EQ than average) and not very 'beta", or an ILE with an overinvestment in their Fe-HA (but is also aware that it falls flat), who tries too hard to be what they perceive to be "beta". Either way, you're trying too hard to convince us, and it's pretty obvious. Stop being a tryhard smartarse and practice being genuine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

  19. #19
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    I also don't see aristocracy, or much Ni/Se valuing. Every time this comes up, you respond with "I am so!"... do you have good examples?
    On Aristocratic, very little I can post here without being admonished by the mod staff for either personal attacks or racism. I do have an accounting from a friend on it though -- which I'd posted on Woof's wall earlier.

    [7/8/2011 10:14:55 PM] Winter: after talking to you heaps
    [7/8/2011 10:14:59 PM] Winter: you're definitely an EIE
    [7/8/2011 10:15:10 PM] Winter: when i compare you to other EIEs
    [7/8/2011 10:15:21 PM] darkmasterjoey: Half the Socionics community thinks I'm ILE.
    [7/8/2011 10:15:30 PM] darkmasterjoey: Half the Socionics community are tards, however.
    [7/8/2011 10:15:32 PM] Winter: well... they're wrong.
    [7/8/2011 10:15:35 PM] Winter: end of story
    [7/8/2011 10:15:38 PM] darkmasterjoey: heh
    [7/8/2011 10:15:52 PM] Winter: i know lots of ILEs
    [7/8/2011 10:15:57 PM] Winter: and you certainly are not one
    [7/8/2011 10:16:12 PM] darkmasterjoey: How so?
    [7/8/2011 10:16:28 PM] Winter: you dont have the same skittish energy
    [7/8/2011 10:17:21 PM] darkmasterjoey: I was actually seriously having issues with that before -- I'd fit pretty much every marker for Beta NF, except... Ni use. I couldn't find where I use Ni.
    [7/8/2011 10:17:55 PM] Winter: well i dont see you as an alpha...
    [7/8/2011 10:17:58 PM] Winter: for a simple reason
    [7/8/2011 10:18:01 PM] darkmasterjoey: Problem is though that 1) I've developed my suggestive (it is actually still very shitty though), and 2) psychology debates don't lend themselves to Ni use.
    [7/8/2011 10:18:17 PM] Winter: you're very mujch aware of social dynamics and structure
    [7/8/2011 10:18:22 PM] Winter: you see the heirarchy
    [7/8/2011 10:18:31 PM] Winter: and you beeline to where you need to go and who you need to talk to
    [7/8/2011 10:18:45 PM] darkmasterjoey: Yeah, kind of instinctively so
    [7/8/2011 10:19:05 PM] Winter: indeed, which indicates Beta > Alpha to me
    [7/8/2011 10:19:11 PM] darkmasterjoey: Anyway, I went back into the Politics forum and BAM. Pure Ni after 3 or 4 posts.
    [7/8/2011 10:19:17 PM] Winter: hot
    [7/8/2011 10:19:33 PM] darkmasterjoey: Yeah
    [7/8/2011 10:19:52 PM] darkmasterjoey: I posted two Ni-riddled posts from PoFo on the thread I made.
    [7/8/2011 10:20:08 PM] darkmasterjoey: one on the min wage, one on India.
    [7/8/2011 10:25:04 PM] Winter: sorry internet died!!! [7/8/2011 10:25:25 PM] darkmasterjoey: hahaha don't worry.
    [7/8/2011 10:25:46 PM] Winter: but yeah, i dont see you as an alpha
    [7/8/2011 10:26:00 PM] Winter: i see you a lot as a beta... you talk about your friends a lot
    [7/8/2011 10:26:07 PM] Winter: which to me shows me group mentality
    [7/8/2011 10:26:18 PM] darkmasterjoey: I'm definitely aristocratic as hell
    [7/8/2011 10:26:18 PM] Winter: but also i notice we talk about emotions in a very controled manner
    [7/8/2011 10:26:24 PM] Winter: between ourselves
    [7/8/2011 10:26:28 PM] darkmasterjoey: Which is why I never bought Alpha
    [7/8/2011 10:26:36 PM] Winter: like... we'll be open about it, but never so much engaging said emotion
    [7/8/2011 10:27:15 PM] Winter: also you have the same sexual energy i get from other betas
    [7/8/2011 10:27:39 PM] darkmasterjoey: oooh, typology by boners
    [7/8/2011 10:27:42 PM] darkmasterjoey: me likey
    [7/8/2011 10:27:52 PM] darkmasterjoey: in what way do you mean
    [7/8/2011 10:27:55 PM] Winter: its totally true though
    [7/8/2011 10:28:21 PM] Winter: at my gatherings its really obvious... Sam Bradley (Moredhel) is one of the only non betas in my group of friends
    [7/8/2011 10:28:47 PM] Winter: well... you're a lot more open about sexuality but not in an aggressive manner. it's just casual conversation
    [7/8/2011 10:28:56 PM] Winter: but not unlike any other topic
    [7/8/2011 10:29:24 PM] Winter: i noticed betas seem to be very casual about sex as a conversational topic and dont have to change the mood
    [7/8/2011 10:29:42 PM] Winter: like.. alphas can be open too... but they seem to focus solely on that... and its almost like an effort
    [7/8/2011 10:29:52 PM] Winter: while betas switch back and forth between that and other topics
    [7/8/2011 10:31:17 PM] darkmasterjoey: Yeah, that makes sense
    [7/8/2011 10:31:54 PM] Winter: also your flirting is more daring
    [7/8/2011 10:32:01 PM] Winter: *shrugs*
    [7/8/2011 10:32:11 PM] Winter: btw, i think Limit is an SLE
    [7/8/2011 10:32:25 PM] darkmasterjoey: It's because 1) sex is not any sort of pressing concern for us, and 2) we're fairly uninhibited as far as what we can say or cannot say -- particularly in atmospheres where we feel comfortable.
    [7/8/2011 10:32:46 PM] darkmasterjoey: So for us it's like talking about hte weather.
    [7/8/2011 10:32:47 PM] darkmasterjoey: *the
    [7/8/2011 10:32:49 PM] Winter: yes, i definitely noticed that.
    As for the aforementioned Ni, it pops up in pretty much every other post I make about politics. Example:

    Quote Originally Posted by On the ideal minimum wage
    Zero. While it is true that labor has a highly inelastic supply and a highly elastic demand leading to a steep wage drop if the minimum wage is eliminated, the real underlying reason for this is the very existence of unemployment, which is a function of investment rates (as investment is the basis for economic production, is the basis for employment). lower wages generate higher profit margins, which allow for greater investment and greater economic growth, which assuming increasing capital intensity and containment in job market growth (which means not letting fucking wetbacks come in and take all the new jobs), it eventually results in the bargaining position turning in favor of the worker
    Quote Originally Posted by On why India will never be a superpower
    That's the problem. There's nothing to indicate that India possesses the necessary elements to sustain its present economic growth, which is based mostly on comparative advantage and will likely peter out within a few years. India lacks the necessary infrastructure to support an advanced industrial economy, the necessary human capital and the necessary rate of capital investment. And it appears to be making no headway in improving any of those.
    Quote Originally Posted by On why space exploration is a necessity
    In the long run, it would be very costly to abandon space exploration. Resource depletion is a very real problem in industrialized Earth, and while technological solutions are readily available to allow us to utilize our resources more efficiently, ultimately we will end up running out of necessary minerals and the like. And the natural solution to that (that is, the natural solution that doesn't require us to become cavemen, something that I'm not even inclined to consider) is to colonize space.
    Incidentally, 1) I count at least six EIE typings (off the top of my head) from other threads, and 2) one of the typings here was a joke. I'll allow your awesome NiFe skills of people-reading to figure out which.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

  20. #20
    Fuck-up NewBorn STAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I also don't see aristocracy, or much Ni/Se valuing. Every time this comes up, you respond with "I am so!"... do you have good examples?
    On Aristocratic, very little I can post here without being admonished by the mod staff for either personal attacks or racism. I do have an accounting from a friend on it though -- which I'd posted on Woof's wall earlier.



    As for the aforementioned Ni, it pops up in pretty much every other post I make about politics. Example:



    Quote Originally Posted by On why space exploration is a necessity
    In the long run, it would be very costly to abandon space exploration. Resource depletion is a very real problem in industrialized Earth, and while technological solutions are readily available to allow us to utilize our resources more efficiently, ultimately we will end up running out of necessary minerals and the like. And the natural solution to that (that is, the natural solution that doesn't require us to become cavemen, something that I'm not even inclined to consider) is to colonize space.
    Incidentally, 1) I count at least six EIE typings (off the top of my head) from other threads, and 2) one of the typings here was a joke. I'll allow your awesome NiFe skills of people-reading to figure out which.
    Nobody cares

  21. #21
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewBorn STAR View Post
    Nobody cares
    The lady asked me a question. The polite thing to do is to answer the question.

    If you have nothing productive to say, the polite thing for you to do, in turn, would be to fuck off.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Fuck-up NewBorn STAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NewBorn STAR View Post
    Nobody cares
    The lady asked me a question. The polite thing to do is to answer the question.

    If you have nothing productive to say, the polite thing for you to do, in turn, would be to fuck off.
    I dont care much about being polite. Which i would suppose you should have noticed. In anyway i think that you are enfj.

    How does your porl feel ?

    And the world is a paradise. The monkeys fly. COSMOS FARTS

    AND PEOPLE CARE

    There are few paradoxes there

  23. #23
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Praise Allah View Post
    DIE THREAD DIE!

    I approve of this development. *slaps fire out of hair*
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    I know you said you've decided on your type already, but I'd say you're an IEI.

    IEE Ne Creative Type

    Some and role lovin too. () I too...
    !!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterNi View Post
    I know you said you've decided on your type already, but I'd say you're an IEI.
    Well, that's a better typing than ILE at least. It's actually one I've quite seriously considered -- but my is a bit too strong for suggestive, and I think my is a tad weak for base.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Do you have a video of yourself?
    If you can't get a miracle, become one

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy123 View Post
    Do you have a video of yourself?
    I do, actually.

    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    strrrng's Avatar
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    EIE was my initial impression, but after watching your video, EP seems more likely than EJ.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    EIE was my initial impression, but after watching your video, EP seems more likely than EJ.
    I do strongly identify with EP temperament, but I'm of the mind that subtype alters temperament -- and I'm an Irrational subtype (H subtype to be exact).
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    I don't disagree that subtype affects the expression of a temperament, but I see it doing so in a much subtler way than you seem to be implying. For example, between an Fe-EIE and Ni-EIE there may be discrepancies in facial movement, thematic emphasis, and other such qualitative measures. But between two temperaments, the differences in interaction are too pronounced to be explained away by subtype. Where a subtype tweaks cognitive filters, a temperament defines an experiential attitude. Throughout the video, your bodily energy (literally, 'vibrations of contours') remained rather languid (obviously you were sitting down, but I didn't pick up on much inner tension and redirection, both very common to Ni-EJs), as were your facial muscles 'at rest' unless you were smiling in response to one of your own remarks, or allaying some discomfort felt in discussing a topic. Further, your inflection is blithe, receptive and kind of harmlessly solicitous, which I take to be much more indicative of EP-Fe-seeking than any Fe-dominant; from an IP-Fe perspective, you're basically saying, "ok, you might listen to me, I hope, so I'll just waver in self-entertaining expatiation to keep things cool." Overall you seem pretty laid-back and easy to deal with, but your entire mode of self-presentation (taking the other's unconscious as your discourse) lacks the emotive control and implied command of any 'audience,' more of a jester quality than a bishop, so to say.

    I guess this clarifies some of the differences between 3w4s and EIEs. Your self-description in the other thread easily aligned with general EIE behaviors; yet sp-last in a type centered around self-expression/understanding explains such manifestations.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I don't disagree that subtype affects the expression of a temperament, but I see it doing so in a much subtler way than you seem to be implying. For example, between an Fe-EIE and Ni-EIE there may be discrepancies in facial movement, thematic emphasis, and other such qualitative measures. But between two temperaments, the differences in interaction are too pronounced to be explained away by subtype. Where a subtype tweaks cognitive filters, a temperament defines an experiential attitude. Throughout the video, your bodily energy (literally, 'vibrations of contours') remained rather languid (obviously you were sitting down, but I didn't pick up on much inner tension and redirection, both very common to Ni-EJs), as were your facial muscles 'at rest' unless you were smiling in response to one of your own remarks, or allaying some discomfort felt in discussing a topic. Further, your inflection is blithe, receptive and kind of harmlessly solicitous, which I take to be much more indicative of EP-Fe-seeking than any Fe-dominant; from an IP-Fe perspective, you're basically saying, "ok, you might listen to me, I hope, so I'll just waver in self-entertaining expatiation to keep things cool." Overall you seem pretty laid-back and easy to deal with, but your entire mode of self-presentation (taking the other's unconscious as your discourse) lacks the emotive control and implied command of any 'audience,' more of a jester quality than a bishop, so to say.

    I guess this clarifies some of the differences between 3w4s and EIEs. Your self-description in the other thread easily aligned with general EIE behaviors; yet sp-last in a type centered around self-expression/understanding explains such manifestations.
    Too often people think subtype makes this considerable difference in behaviour, when all it does is make minor tweaks, which you so elegantly described.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
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    6w7-4w5-9w1

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    fwiw, here's a video I'd made before:

    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

  33. #33
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    Based on the first video alone Aleksei, you come across as XNXP. You just come across as very spacey-intuitive and laid back-irrational. Whether you're a logical type or an ethical type, or an intratim or an extratim, I am not confident enough to judge at the moment.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
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    6w7-4w5-9w1

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Based on the first video alone Aleksei, you come across as XNXP. You just come across as very spacey-intuitive and laid back-irrational. Whether you're a logical type or an ethical type, or an intratim or an extratim, I am not confident enough to judge at the moment.
    Just FYI, if you type me ILI or IEE I'll just shitlist you. The vast majority of arguments I get on here are vs .
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Based on the first video alone Aleksei, you come across as XNXP. You just come across as very spacey-intuitive and laid back-irrational. Whether you're a logical type or an ethical type, or an intratim or an extratim, I am not confident enough to judge at the moment.
    Just FYI, if you type me ILI or IEE I'll just shitlist you. The vast majority of arguments I get on here are vs .
    No need, I was just about to post that based on the second video, I have you narrowed down to two types: IEI and ILE, and then I come and read this . I can sense that you are definitely and valuing. I don't think you're my identical, I don't get that IEE vibe from you, and you don't give off an SEI vibe either.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-4w5-9w1

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    silke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    ... The vast majority of arguments I get on here are vs .
    You do get into Ni/Ne arguments. Here are your posts from a few:

    In order to describe discrete classifications of people, you must first establish who fits these classifications, which means you need an initial criteria set. Jungian typology lacks such criteria (as mentioned, it is not linked to neurocognitive processing), so the categories themselves become such.
    The definitions represent what they define -- they are self-shaping. If Fe in MBTI is said to represent reliance on external opinions and considerations for the feelings of other people then that's what it represents. If in Socionics represents by comparison the ability to infect others with your own feelings and emotions, then that's what it represents. No need to look deeper. And claiming one of those as erroneous is inherently stupid; they are correct for the people they apply to, and incorrect for the people they don't apply to, as with every other element of either system.
    Given definitions indeed do diverge that's not the case -- whether by accident or design is irrelevant. The point is the types end up different.
    My point is that right and wrong are inherently meaningless when referring to abstract symbols. What really matters is what those symbols represent. And if they represent something different, then they just fucking do.
    Type. Is. Not. A. Natural. Phenomenon. It is an abstract model.
    Well, the problem, as I've stated repeatedly and YOU FUCKERS DON'T SEEM TO GET, is that there is no phenomenon being described, aside from the incidence of personality itself. There's no part of the brain, so it's pointless to theorize how acts aside from how is described to act.
    And as Fi is described distinctly across systems, common sense dictates they aren't describing the same category. Therefore, for the sake of precision it is necessary to differentiate them.
    In summary you're stating that:
    - In order to classify people, you first create an abstract model: establish categories, define them, label them with some symbols.
    - Fi Ti Te Se etc. are such symbols invented for the sake of making this abstract model. They do not represent any real phenomena and are not tied to neurocognitive processing.
    - Once the model is set and ready to go, you can use it to categorize and classify real people (i.e. fit reality to the model).
    - There is no point in debating whether the symbols are right or wrong because it is just an abstract construction anyways.
    - If a definition of some symbol is worded slightly differently, it starts to represent a different category and is not the same symbol anymore. Different wording thus gives rise to divergent categories.

    Your Ti is tied to Si. Your model is completely theoretical and apparently has no phenomenological basis. Its definitions are static and, tied to concrete wordings. You advocate building such a model first, and then trying to fit observables into those categories rather than the other way around. You say debating whether these categories are correct or not makes no sense because they don't represent anything real. This is not Beta Ni-Ti+Se by a long stretch - this is thoroughly Ni-ignoring.

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    You advocate building such a model first, and then trying to fit observables into those categories rather than the other way around. You say debating whether these categories are correct or not makes no sense because they don't represent anything real.
    I don't advocate it, I am saying that is the way it fucking is. Nobody has defined typology as truly tied to cognition. Cognition is wider-ranging than typology is. Therefore, typology is merely whatever range it has been defined as being. All phenomenologically-based type systems are as correct as each other (even if they vary) considering the model actually fits characteristics human beings exhibit, because human personality is far wider-ranging than 16 types can encompass.

    This is not Beta Ni-Ti+Se by a long stretch - this is thoroughly Ni-ignoring.
    I'mma need some theoretical backing for this. Because, yunno, I like definitions so much and all.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

  38. #38
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Good job deconstructing Aleksei and explaining why he's Ni-ignoring / Ti+Si valuing. There should be more posts like this.
    You. Out.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

  39. #39
    Arete GuavaDrunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I don't advocate it, I am saying that is the way it fucking is. Nobody has defined typology as truly tied to cognition. Cognition is wider-ranging than typology is. Therefore, typology is merely whatever range it has been defined as being. All phenomenologically-based type systems are as correct as each other (even if they vary) considering the model actually fits characteristics human beings exhibit, because human personality is far wider-ranging than 16 types can encompass.
    Same difference.
    Reason is a whore.

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuavaDrunk View Post
    Same difference.
    What does that even MEAN D:

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