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Thread: Temperaments

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    Default Temperaments

    Here's a cool idea by MisterNi about temperaments that I wanted to share:

    Exxp - Box Expanders
    Ixxp- Box Destroyers
    Exxj - Box Enforcers
    Ixxj - Box Creators

    What do you guys think? I think it's true generally speaking.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    When you realize there are no limits on dreams, imagination, and creativity, then you realize there is no box at all.

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    Mountain Dew, that's a very typical IP perspective, which neatly fits in what the OP was trying to say.

    Not everybody is creative, imaginary or visionary or even WANTS or desires to be. Not everybody is an artist. Some people are just business-y hardworker types and I guess that's okay. Some people are a mixture. Some people are just pure one way or another. A lot of kinds in this world huh.

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    perfect

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    What's a "box" supposed to be?
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Mountain Dew, that's a very typical IP perspective, which neatly fits in what the OP was trying to say.

    Not everybody is creative, imaginary or visionary or even WANTS or desires to be. Not everybody is an artist. Some people are just business-y hardworker types and I guess that's okay. Some people are a mixture. Some people are just pure one way or another. A lot of kinds in this world huh.
    no because he's expressing his own (personal and subjective) conceptualization, which is IJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    What's a "box" supposed to be?
    Some kind of a container, I guess.

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    this makes Exxjs sound like douchebags and Ixxjs like the douchebag Elite.Also,box destroyers sounds funny for Ixxps.Well,maybe if they sit on boxes and won't get up,sure.


    "box expanders" sounds negative since i automatically perceive the box as something limiting.Indeed,Ne/Se leadings do not always fathom what exactly they try to expand and its real impact on the COSMOS,but it's all in the glorious game of creation so its ok.

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    First off, thanks for posting this Traveler. An idea from the chatbox has finally made its way into a forum post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    What's a "box" supposed to be?
    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    What's a "box" supposed to be?
    Some kind of a container, I guess.
    The "box" are logical or ethical rules that society imposes on the individual which are either deemed acceptable or unacceptable behavior. So the natural types to create these frameworks would be the types with or as their dominant function which is why the Ixxj are the box creators. They create the boundaries or the framework. ie: the Box.

    The ExxP on the other hand realize that the framework provided by the IxxJ is valid and consistent with their worldview but in its original form is much too limiting and thus strive to push the boundaries of the original framework due to their worldview and often expansively broad perception or . The Exxp creates breathing room within the boundaries. ie: expanding the Box.

    The Exxj understands that people aren't just going to adhere to the framework without someone either enticing people to follow the framework either through incentives, persuasion, coercion, force etc etc. They're the best suited for this due to the extroverted nature of their dominant function and . The sensibility of their methods or message just plain makes sense. ie: they enforce the Box.

    The Ixxp realizes that this framework is somewhat arbitrary in nature and thus actively attempts to reduce the effects, if not actively attempting to destroy, the framework that keeps the individual bound from complete freedom. and is sharply perceptive to the flaws of the framework and can navigate, easily exploit the flaws, or if necessary pick it apart piece-by-piece. ie: they either improve, maintain or destroy the Box.



    So yes, the Box is metaphorical but using metaphors was the only way to explain what I was trying to say with something that would be a common theme across all of the quadras.



    DISCLAIMER: This is still very much a raw idea and definitely needs further refining.

    EDIT: Made a slight edit to the Ixxp paragraph.
    Last edited by MisterNi; 07-12-2011 at 07:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timewu View Post
    this makes Exxjs sound like douchebags and Ixxjs like the douchebag Elite.Also,box destroyers sounds funny for Ixxps.Well,maybe if they sit on boxes and won't get up,sure.


    "box expanders" sounds negative since i automatically perceive the box as something limiting.Indeed,Ne/Se leadings do not always fathom what exactly they try to expand and its real impact on the COSMOS,but it's all in the glorious game of creation so its ok.
    So if "box expanders" sounds negative, then what would you suggest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    I hate this entire idea and think it's stupid. I question the assumption that there 'is' or 'need be' a box at all.
    For the feedback, many thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton
    Quote Originally Posted by timewu View Post
    this makes Exxjs sound like douchebags and Ixxjs like the douchebag Elite.Also,box destroyers sounds funny for Ixxps.Well,maybe if they sit on boxes and won't get up,sure.


    "box expanders" sounds negative since i automatically perceive the box as something limiting.Indeed,Ne/Se leadings do not always fathom what exactly they try to expand and its real impact on the COSMOS,but it's all in the glorious game of creation so its ok.
    Yeah.
    I think timewu was actually agreeing with the idea and providing some criticism which is great.

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    I just kinda do stuff - whether it falls inside or outside any specific "box" (there are many) doesn't matter much to me in and of itself, unless the box really needs to be annihilated, or just to be allowed the right conditions to dissolve...

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    did i imply that i agree with the idea?is war what you want ?
    those titles are pretty generic.like,this concept already exists but it is presented as some epiphany in this thread.
    plus,everyone more or less expands,creates,destroys and enforces his/her own boxes (as in limitations) but the degree up to which those actions are applied do not really give us the right to establish those titles about temperaments .those pompous "elemental" temperament concepts should be kept loose if not called into question.

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    this is one of those things where it might make sense in a strictly theoretical mathy kinda way but nobodys gonna be like "hell ya i love limitations i enforce those mofos all the time"

    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    What's a "box" supposed to be?
    Some kind of a container, I guess.
    ahahahahah

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    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl
    I just kinda do stuff - whether it falls inside or outside any specific "box" (there are many) doesn't matter much to me in and of itself, unless the box really needs to be annihilated, or just to be allowed the right conditions to dissolve...
    Seems Exxp to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by timewu View Post
    did i imply that i agree with the idea?is war what you want ?
    those titles are pretty generic.like,this concept already exists but it is presented as some epiphany in this thread.
    plus,everyone more or less expands,creates,destroys and enforces his/her own boxes (as in limitations) but the degree up to which those actions are applied do not really give us the right to establish those titles about temperaments .those pompous "elemental" temperament concepts should be kept loose if not called into question.
    .............

    Yes, you're probably right in a way but your post kind of melts into one long run-on sentence so I'll try to break it up into discrete bits.

    Quote Originally Posted by timewu View Post
    did i imply that i agree with the idea?is war what you want ?
    Agreeing with someone is considered an act of war? .

    those titles are pretty generic.like,this concept already exists but it is presented as some epiphany in this thread.
    OK, well I didn't search the forum or the net to double check if it's a completely original idea/concept but lets just say Traveler got the ball rolling and I've collated, collected and gussied it for your reading pleasure.

    plus,everyone more or less expands,creates,destroys and enforces his/her own boxes (as in limitations) but the degree up to which those actions are applied do not really give us the right to establish those titles about temperaments.
    Yes of course. People don't always fit neatly into specific roles and there's going to be a lot of overlap between the temperaments but each temperament should have specific strengths that should played to instead of ignored and potentially ignoring your strengths.

    those pompous "elemental" temperament concepts should be kept loose if not called into question.
    Pompous? Keeping it loose? Nice choice of words. lol

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    Of course you ejs and ijs don't like it, but thats how it is. I get shit everyday for not being an Ij or Ej member of society who is a preditable workaholic box stuffer. I understand the need for box creation, but too much of anything is bad. Thus dynamic Ips and box expanding Eps. Suck on deez nutz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterNi View Post
    Pompous? Keeping it loose? Nice choice of words. lol
    hey don't make fun of my english.


    jughead,i dread pushy job environments ,too.however i understand why people try to make the best out of their employees since capitalism allows it.besides,money=security/best services in this political system so pressure has to do with whether your boss feels secure enough or not.

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    Boxes
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    jughead there are plenty of irrationals with jobs lol

    what do you get shit for EVERY DAY? ive been criticized for not working hard enough when i was working my ass off and told i'm working too hard when i feel like i'm slacking off so i don't think it even has much to do with what i actually do but more about how much shit in or out of my control is being taken care of and how people feel about me.

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    ^this

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    Cas? He's joking.

    In any case, the idea that j = follower is nuts.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Boxes
    Quote Originally Posted by jughead View Post
    Of course you ejs and ijs don't like it, but thats how it is. I get shit everyday for not being an Ij or Ej member of society who is a preditable workaholic box stuffer. I understand the need for box creation, but too much of anything is bad. Thus dynamic Ips and box expanding Eps. Suck on deez nutz.
    YES, thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    this is one of those things where it might make sense in a strictly theoretical mathy kinda way but nobodys gonna be like "hell ya i love limitations i enforce those mofos all the time"
    lol! I dunno about you but I always think to myself, "man eff those boxes, I'm going to totally push it to the limits."

    Quote Originally Posted by timewu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterNi View Post
    Pompous? Keeping it loose? Nice choice of words. lol
    hey don't make fun of my english.


    jughead,i dread pushy job environments ,too.however i understand why people try to make the best out of their employees since capitalism allows it.besides,money=security/best services in this political system so pressure has to do with whether your boss feels secure enough or not.
    It was just a funny choice of words is all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jughead View Post
    Of course you ejs and ijs don't like it, but thats how it is. I get shit everyday for not being an Ij or Ej member of society who is a preditable workaholic box stuffer.
    /thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Cas? He's joking.
    No he isn't lol.
    Then he's dumber than you. Which is rather impressive.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Tough crowd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Analogous thread I made awhile ago: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=34645
    BOOM Headshot!
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Analogous thread I made awhile ago: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=34645
    The funny thing, your entire thread places you squarely into an Exxj lol. Oh well. This thread was just food for thought that seems pretty accurate IMO.

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    I guess I can see this kind of working, but based on positions of Ji functions rather than temperaments per se.

    e.g. for Ti

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterNi View Post
    The "box" are logical or ethical rules that society imposes on the individual which are either deemed acceptable or unacceptable behavior. So the natural types to create these frameworks would be the types with or as their dominant function which is why the Ixxj are the box creators. They create the boundaries or the framework. ie: the Box.
    LXI, Ti-base - works well enough.

    The ExxP on the other hand realize that the framework provided by the IxxJ is valid and consistent with their worldview but in its original form is much too limiting and thus strive to push the boundaries of the original framework due to their worldview and often expansively broad perception or . The Exxp creates breathing room within the boundaries. ie: expanding the Box.
    XLE - Ti-creative - I guess the creative function could be interpreted as expansive, due to its greater flexibility than the base function? "Expander" might not be the best term here though, since I don't think it's used with the primary purpose of expansion.

    The other option is XEE - Ti-PoLR. I guess they expand the box by trying to prove its foundations are false using Te? Not sure which one works better.

    The Exxj understands that people aren't just going to adhere to the framework without someone either enticing people to follow the framework either through incentives, persuasion, coercion, force etc etc. They're the best suited for this due to the extroverted nature of their dominant function and . The sensibility of their methods or message just plain makes sense. ie: they enforce the Box.
    I don't really agree with this one. Ti is either DS or ignoring function in Ejs, neither of which can really be described by "enforcing".

    The Ixxp realizes that this framework is somewhat arbitrary in nature and thus actively attempts to reduce the effects, if not actively attempting to destroy, the framework that keeps the individual bound from complete freedom. and is sharply perceptive to the flaws of the framework and can navigate, easily exploit the flaws, or if necessary pick it apart piece-by-piece. ie: they either improve, maintain or destroy the Box.
    I think this is a reasonable description of how the demonstrative function can work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
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    Except now it seems you've changed your type to SLE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    but nobodys gonna be like "hell ya i love limitations i enforce those mofos all the time"
    lmao
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    Quote Originally Posted by Octopuslove
    ...
    Thanks for the feedback octopuslove! I meant to use the base function, that is, the leading function for each of the temperaments since those should be the strongest and most easily used for any particular person.

    Writing solely from the perspective of Ji gives an over-precedence on Ji IMO especially considering that Ji needs Je and vice versa and Pi needs Pe and vice versa. So as for your points:

    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    I guess I can see this kind of working, but based on positions of Ji functions rather than temperaments per se.

    e.g. for Ti

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterNi View Post
    The "box" are logical or ethical rules that society imposes on the individual which are either deemed acceptable or unacceptable behavior. So the natural types to create these frameworks would be the types with or as their dominant function which is why the Ixxj are the box creators. They create the boundaries or the framework. ie: the Box.
    LXI, Ti-base - works well enough.
    XLE - Ti-creative - I guess the creative function could be interpreted as expansive, due to its greater flexibility than the base function? "Expander" might not be the best term here though, since I don't think it's used with the primary purpose of expansion.

    The other option is XEE - Ti-PoLR. I guess they expand the box by trying to prove its foundations are false using Te? Not sure which one works better.
    Ok, then instead of calling them box expanders what would you suggest?

    I don't really agree with this one. Ti is either DS or ignoring function in Ejs, neither of which can really be described by "enforcing".
    OK, how about "upholding"?

    The Ixxp realizes that this framework is somewhat arbitrary in nature and thus actively attempts to reduce the effects, if not actively attempting to destroy, the framework that keeps the individual bound from complete freedom. and is sharply perceptive to the flaws of the framework and can navigate, easily exploit the flaws, or if necessary pick it apart piece-by-piece. ie: they either improve, maintain or destroy the Box.
    I think this is a reasonable description of how the demonstrative function can work.
    Cool, thanks.

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    !!!!!!

  31. #31
    In Transition Raver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterNi View Post
    First off, thanks for posting this Traveler. An idea from the chatbox has finally made its way into a forum post.
    Your welcome MisterNi.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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  32. #32
    Samuel the Gabriel H. MisterNi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterNi View Post
    First off, thanks for posting this Traveler. An idea from the chatbox has finally made its way into a forum post.
    Your welcome MisterNi.
    Responding to all of the feedback+criticism is really time consuming though so I can't do this too often but thanks, I don't want to seem like an ingrate. Hey, btw I'm the one that ended up taking all of the heat for this thread, not you.

    IEE Ne Creative Type

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterNi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post

    Your welcome MisterNi.
    Responding to all of the feedback+criticism is really time consuming though. Hey, btw I'm the one that ended up taking all of the heat for this thread, not you.
    LOL that's true . That's what happens when your the originator of the idea.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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  34. #34
    Samuel the Gabriel H. MisterNi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterNi View Post

    Responding to all of the feedback+criticism is really time consuming though. Hey, btw I'm the one that ended up taking all of the heat for this thread, not you.
    LOL that's true . That's what happens when your the originator of the idea.
    Haha, not so fast. We're partners in crime on this.

    IEE Ne Creative Type

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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterNi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post

    LOL that's true . That's what happens when your the originator of the idea.
    Haha, not so fast. We're partners in crime on this.
    Yes, I'm the middle man. Anyways in the end, you got to realize that there will always be people who will accept your ideas and there will always be people who reject your ideas. It's just what happens in life.
    Last edited by Raver; 07-13-2011 at 05:38 AM.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Mountain Dew, that's a very typical IP perspective, which neatly fits in what the OP was trying to say.

    Not everybody is creative, imaginary or visionary or even WANTS or desires to be. Not everybody is an artist. Some people are just business-y hardworker types and I guess that's okay. Some people are a mixture. Some people are just pure one way or another. A lot of kinds in this world huh.
    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Mountain Dew, that's a very typical IP perspective, which neatly fits in what the OP was trying to say.

    Not everybody is creative, imaginary or visionary or even WANTS or desires to be. Not everybody is an artist. Some people are just business-y hardworker types and I guess that's okay. Some people are a mixture. Some people are just pure one way or another. A lot of kinds in this world huh.
    no because he's expressing his own (personal and subjective) conceptualization, which is IJ
    ... or I could have been repeating it, something someone else said, and not my own words. Therefore I'm 'enforcing' the box that there is no box.

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