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Thread: Types of some German politicians

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    Default Types of some German politicians

    Yeah, I know that this isn't particularly interesting to most people here, but we do have a few Germans and Europeans.

    The German socionist Reinhard Landwehr has typed the following people:

    Joschka Fischer, Green leader and former Foreign Minister - ENFp





    Gregor Gysi, leader of the Left Party in parliament - ESFj





    Oskar Lafontaine, former Finance Minister and Gregor Gysi's sidekick - INTp - which I don't agree with. Lytov thinks he's ENTp; I think he's ISFp.





    Angela Merkel, German Chancellor - INTj. Interesting that nobody seems ever to suggest another type for her.




    Gerhard Schröder, former German Chancellor - ESFp



    Edmund Stoiber, Prime Minister of Bavaria - ENFj



    Guido Westerwelle, leader of the Free Democrats - ISTj - I would have thought ENFj for him actually.

    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I´ve read the German article, but I can´t agree with the last two typings. In opinion it is obvious that Stoiber is a T-type and Westerwelle a F-type. Maybe both types could be swaped.

    That Lafontaine is an ISFp is possible, but I not familiar enough with him to judge this.

    Interesting is that three people were mistaken for their dual: Stoiber is an ISTj but mistaken for ENFj, Westerwelle is an ENFj but mistaken for an ISTj and Lafontaine could be ISFp though he was mistaken for an ENTp.
    "Wenn der Deutsche in einen Satz taucht, dann hat man ihn die längste Zeit gesehen, bis er auf der anderen Seite des Ozeans wieder auftaucht mit seinem Verb im Mund." - Mark Twain

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    Expat, thanks. That's interesting. I'd have thought Schröder was an ESTp, but that was just my gut feeling. He comes across very much like the typical cigar-smoking self-made man with scant regard for people's itty-bitty sensibilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gronau
    I´ve read the German article, but I can´t agree with the last two typings. In opinion it is obvious that Stoiber is a T-type and Westerwelle a F-type. Maybe both types could be swaped.
    I was thinking the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    Expat, thanks. That's interesting. I'd have thought Schröder was an ESTp, but that was just my gut feeling. He comes across very much like the typical cigar-smoking self-made man with scant regard for people's itty-bitty sensibilities.
    I think ESTp is possible, but what you're describing is essentially the dominance. I think ESFp fits better.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gronau
    Interesting is that three people were mistaken for their dual: Stoiber is an ISTj but mistaken for ENFj, Westerwelle is an ENFj but mistaken for an ISTj and Lafontaine could be ISFp though he was mistaken for an ENTp.
    Yes, I don't have a firm opinion on Stoiber's or Westerwelle's types but I do think that the "swap" is more likely than Landwehr's original typing.

    I have a stronger opinion on Lafontaine's type. First, everyone agrees that he's irrational. Landwehr seems to have typed him as INTp because of a perception of him as an INTp "Critic", but all that shows is an inclination to be Negative according to Reinin, which is clear also in interviews, very strongly in my opinion.

    I also read a very long debate between him and Stoiber in Der Spiegel, and he very often went for emotional arguments.

    The only irrational, feeler, negative types are ISFp and ENFp.

    I can see him as either, but I think he's more likely to have a PoLR and hidden agenda than the opposite; he's clearly > that is Alpha rather than Delta.

    So I think that, altogether, ISFp fits best.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    bump

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    Another really old thread, but I actually planned to begin a similar one...

    Well, I agree with Fischer being ENFp and Gysi may be an ESFj as well, but there's no way Lafontaine could be an INTp in my opinion. He's very much of a populist and is always trying to be in the center of attention. Clearly an E if you ask me, so ENTp would be a better guess for him.

    I read on a german typology page that Merkel could be an ISTj, which I agreed. ISTj behaviour is somewhat of a German stereotype and I think she does reflect it quite good. But it's true that Schröder and Merkel are very opposite types. I also think that Westerwelle is rather ENFp than ISTj.

    The german typology page that I mentioned above also states that Helmut Kohl is most likely ISFj. Probably a true guess I suppose. Another one would be Jürgen Trittin (green party) as INFj.

    And finally, some older one: Otto von Bismarck - ENTj.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Hey, a German

    I thought I was the only one, see this thread.

    I disagree with most of your typings, though.

    SPD:
    Schröder - ESFj
    Münterfering - ESFj
    Steinmeier - INTj
    Gabriel - ISFp

    The Left:
    Lafontaine - INTp
    Gysi - ESFp

    The Greens:
    Fischer - ENFp
    Trittin - INFj
    Künast - ESTj

    CDU:
    Merkel - INTj

    FDP:
    Westerwelle - ENTj

    Some people mix up the type of Gysi and Schröder. Why did Lafotaine leave the SPD? Because of his conflicts with Schröder, opposite quadra.

    In my opinion Westerwelle is not ISTj but ENTj. Keep in mind that he is homosexual which may lead to the appearence of an ISTJ

    So I agree with Landwehr's typings of Lafontaine, Fischer and Merkel. But he obviously mixed up Schröder and Gysi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plynex View Post
    Well, I agree with Fischer being ENFp and Gysi may be an ESFj as well, but there's no way Lafontaine could be an INTp in my opinion. He's very much of a populist and is always trying to be in the center of attention. Clearly an E if you ask me, so ENTp would be a better guess for him.
    No, you have to take quadra values and intertype relations into account. Those things are nearly as important for typing as dichotomies...

    Being a populist is clearly a Gamma thing. Opportunism and populism are -related whereas ideology is -related. I don't think Lafontaine appears to be an extavert, either.

    I read on a german typology page that Merkel could be an ISTj, which I agreed.
    I don't think so. Using 16 subtypes she is most likely INTj-ISTj, tricky to type because of that...
    Last edited by JohnDo; 05-03-2010 at 11:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDo View Post
    I disagree with most of your typings, though.

    Some people mix up the type of Gysi and Schröder. Why did Lafotaine leave the SPD? Because of his conflicts with Schröder, opposite quadra.

    In my opinion Westerwelle is not ISTj but ENTj. Keep in mind that he is homosexual which may lead to the appearence of an ISTJ

    No, you have to take quadra values into account. Being a populist is clearly a Gamma thing. Opportunism and populism are -related whereas ideology is -related. I don't think Lafontaine appears to be an extavert, either.

    I don't think so. Using 16 subtypes she is most likely INTj-ISTj, tricky to type because of that...
    Hello

    Well, I didn't know that homosexuality alters the appearance of the types... but okay, ENTj could be right as well.

    Unfortunately, I don't know enough about the quadras to apply their traits here. It seems that this would be quite important, though... :wink:

    I read about mbti first and I thought typing was much easier there (but not necessarily correct). Socionics just has much more theoretical elements, am I right?
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plynex View Post
    Well, I didn't know that homosexuality alters the appearance of the types... but okay, ENTj could be right as well.
    People who know some gays probably know what I mean. Homosexuality has significant influence on behaviour so it has to be taken into account for typing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Plynex View Post
    Unfortunately, I don't know enough about the quadras to apply their traits here. It seems that this would be quite important, though... :wink:
    Yes, quadras are one of the most important advantages of socionics. It is very important to have a good understanding of quadra values. SPD is clearly Alpha, Greens Delta.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plynex View Post
    I read about mbti first and I thought typing was much easier there (but not necessarily correct). Socionics just has much more theoretical elements, am I right?
    Exactly. I also started with MBTI but they only use dichotomies and descriptions so typings are not reliable there. Important advantages of socionics:
    - Model A, especially strong/weak and valued/subdued functions
    - intertype relations, especially quadras
    - subtypes (not for beginners)
    - Reinin dichotomies (not for beginners and not for typing)

    Nevertheless, I still consider Jungian dichotomies and type descriptions the most important methods of typing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDo View Post
    SPD is clearly Alpha, Greens Delta.
    Well, if so, which party would you describe as Gamma then? FDP? And what's CDU/CSU or the Left?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDo View Post
    Nevertheless, I still consider Jungian dichotomies and type descriptions the most important methods of typing...
    Yes, I agree. Socionics seems more professional than mbti, but if you try to explain typology to other people, both typologies are okay I think. They are very similar in their beginnings (which isn't much of a surprise because they both use C.G. Jung's work as a base).
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plynex View Post
    Well, if so, which party would you describe as Gamma then? FDP? And what's CDU/CSU or the Left?
    Alpha - SPD
    Beta - CDU
    Gamma - FDP (rational), Left (irrational)
    Delta - Greens

    That's only a tendency, of course. I think Merkel is INTj (not Beta) and it may seem strange that FDP and Linke belong to the same quadra. But FDP's holy idea is economy (ENTj/ISFj) whereas the left just wants to criticize everything and get some votes by populism (INTp/ESFp).

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