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Thread: DSM-V to claim introversion a disorder

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    Default DSM-V to claim introversion a disorder

    Yes, some idiot has decided to make fully half the world mad at them. (OK maybe not half... there are of course some truly pitiful introverts out there who will not take up arms against even a self-identified mortal enemy... but at least 40%)

    It's far too easy to get a PhD nowadays. Do your papers; be aggressive; bullshit the whole time... and you've got it. Pitiful theories like these are the result.

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    http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevision...n.aspx?rid=473

    It's "detachment", and i don't think you can argue that anything on that list is a good thing.
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    I have all of those.

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    do i get free medication?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat View Post
    I have all of those.
    Same.

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    Wow. Seriously? WTF? Is this just one fringe psychologist ? I can not imagine a group of respected people would actually approve this. It's just a proposition right?

    Wait uhhh

    I'm dumb lol I just read the article



    Detachment

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    DSM-IV
    Updated June 21, 2011



    Detachment involves withdrawal from other people and from social interactions.

    Restricted affectivity: Little reaction to emotionally arousing situations; constricted emotional experience and expression; indifference or coldness.
    Depressivity: Frequent feelings of being down, miserable, and/or hopeless; difficulty recovering from such moods; pessimism about the future; pervasive shame; feelings of inferior self worth; thoughts of suicide and suicidal behavior.
    Suspiciousness: Expectations of -- and heightened sensitivity to -- signs of interpersonal ill-intent or harm; doubts about loyalty and fidelity of others; feelings of persecution.
    Withdrawal: Preference for being alone to being with others; reticence in social situations; avoidance of social contacts and activity; lack of initiation of social contact.
    Anhedonia: Lack of enjoyment from, engagement in, or energy for life‘s experiences; deficits in the capacity to feel pleasure or take interest in things.
    Intimacy avoidance: Avoidance of close or romantic relationships, interpersonal attachments, and intimate sexual relationships.


    If this is what you call Introversion, you're so wrong. This is clearly a disorder.


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    SL, meet the forum's resident village idiot.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

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    Eh, it sounds an awfully like depression with a misleading name for the affliction. There're probably some finer points I'm missing but I'll bet dollars to donuts the same parts of the brain are being underutilized.

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    I think what they're trying to describe is different than introversion. I know both my parents will qualify for that disorder, but I've been saying they're nuts for years and one of them is an extrovert. Introversion isn't what makes you a hermit.

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    Actually, it's the descriptive words, and everything taken together, that makes this sound like a disorder. I could see how a person within the range of normal personality could be incorrectly diagnosed as having a "disorder" from this...And yes, it does have something to do with introversion, although many Socionics-introverts wouldn't remotely fit this description.

    Imagine though some ESE parents and their ILI child. They feel that the child is "different," so they take him to a shrink. To them, he doesn't seem expressive in the way they expect, so he has "restricted affectivity." He talks about what he sees as negative trends...how the U.S. is going down hill and how the sun will burn out and the universe is expanding so life will eventually cease to exist, etc., so he has "depressivity." He gets picked on in school, so he has justified feelings of persecution. He prefers reading or solitary creative activities to social activities, so he has "withdrawal." He doesn't enjoy things the rest of the family enjoys (and maybe hasn't found what he enjoys), so he has "anhedonia." And he hasn't found someone he can relate to, so he has "intimacy avoidance."

    I think this proposed DSM description definitely blurs the line between personality (whether Socionics-related or otherwise) and disorder and could be abused to give drugs to make people who don't need them.

    On the other hand, even in Jung's original essay on psychological types, he thought that extremes in focusing too exclusively on a given function can be pathological.

    Overall, unless the patient feels these things are a problem, I think people should be very wary of this "diagnosis" and the potential to push drugs and other "therapies" on people to make them conform to a societal standard. I can see them putting this person on some drug that makes him less reflective and try to take away what could be a real strength. Psychotropic drugs can have very bad long-term effects and should never be used just because society values certain personality traits higher than others.

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    a euphemized version of schizoid personality disorder. opens up a wider range of "suffering patients" and funds more serotonin sterilizers.
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    I'd like to spend five minutes alone with the piece of shit who thinks it's a good idea to force drugs on perfectly good people for being themselves...

    On a lighter note, the assclown who's responsible for this would apparently try to drug Batman out of his skull

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    Actually, it's the descriptive words, and everything taken together, that makes this sound like a disorder. I could see how a person within the range of normal personality could be incorrectly diagnosed as having a "disorder" from this...And yes, it does have something to do with introversion, although many Socionics-introverts wouldn't remotely fit this description.

    Imagine though some ESE parents and their ILI child. They feel that the child is "different," so they take him to a shrink. To them, he doesn't seem expressive in the way they expect, so he has "restricted affectivity." He talks about what he sees as negative trends...how the U.S. is going down hill and how the sun will burn out and the universe is expanding so life will eventually cease to exist, etc., so he has "depressivity." He gets picked on in school, so he has justified feelings of persecution. He prefers reading or solitary creative activities to social activities, so he has "withdrawal." He doesn't enjoy things the rest of the family enjoys (and maybe hasn't found what he enjoys), so he has "anhedonia." And he hasn't found someone he can relate to, so he has "intimacy avoidance."

    I think this proposed DSM description definitely blurs the line between personality (whether Socionics-related or otherwise) and disorder and could be abused to give drugs to make people who don't need them.

    On the other hand, even in Jung's original essay on psychological types, he thought that extremes in focusing too exclusively on a given function can be pathological.

    Overall, unless the patient feels these things are a problem, I think people should be very wary of this "diagnosis" and the potential to push drugs and other "therapies" on people to make them conform to a societal standard. I can see them putting this person on some drug that makes him less reflective and try to take away what could be a real strength. Psychotropic drugs can have very bad long-term effects and should never be used just because society values certain personality traits higher than others.


    This is a great post.

    Are 'personality disorders' still considered part of 'personality'?

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    can i use this to plead insanity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    Wow. Seriously? WTF? Is this just one fringe psychologist ? I can not imagine a group of respected people would actually approve this. It's just a proposition right?

    Wait uhhh

    I'm dumb lol I just read the article



    Detachment

    Proposed Revision
    Rationale
    Severity
    DSM-IV
    Updated June 21, 2011



    Detachment involves withdrawal from other people and from social interactions.

    Restricted affectivity: Little reaction to emotionally arousing situations; constricted emotional experience and expression; indifference or coldness.
    Depressivity: Frequent feelings of being down, miserable, and/or hopeless; difficulty recovering from such moods; pessimism about the future; pervasive shame; feelings of inferior self worth; thoughts of suicide and suicidal behavior.
    Suspiciousness: Expectations of -- and heightened sensitivity to -- signs of interpersonal ill-intent or harm; doubts about loyalty and fidelity of others; feelings of persecution.
    Withdrawal: Preference for being alone to being with others; reticence in social situations; avoidance of social contacts and activity; lack of initiation of social contact.
    Anhedonia: Lack of enjoyment from, engagement in, or energy for life‘s experiences; deficits in the capacity to feel pleasure or take interest in things.
    Intimacy avoidance: Avoidance of close or romantic relationships, interpersonal attachments, and intimate sexual relationships.


    If this is what you call Introversion, you're so wrong. This is clearly a disorder.
    Scarlet if you're not an introvert, you don't understand. Most of these feelings are due to extrovert bullying, particularly by conflictors and supervisors.

    By rights the people involved in this should lose their PhDs... and they just may.

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    Going by this type of definitions, you can subscribe at least one disorder to pretty much any living person.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    By rights the people involved in this should lose their PhDs... and they just may.
    Is it even possible to cancel an already-granted Ph.D.? (Imo it shouldn't be.)



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    Mistakes can be made. Ultimately an institution can do anything it wants. PhDs are unlike master's degress in that they are badges of competence, not education. Too many people have these badges who shouldn't have them, because they are intellectually unfit for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Going by this type of definitions, you can subscribe at least one disorder to pretty much any living person.
    And then prescribe a pill for every ill. Perfect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Going by this type of definitions, you can ascribe at least one disorder to pretty much any living person.
    And then prescribe a pill for every ill. Perfect.


    Turns out everything is about money... and politics.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    What a idiotic concept. I truly hope that this isn't due to Steven Pinker's influence. He's ENTp type and has most likely made a theory that E types are "normal" and has patterned a system of some kind out of this idea, which would make sense for an ENTp to do without the full grasp of the spectrum of human behavior and emotionality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    What a idiotic concept. I truly hope that this isn't due to Steven Pinker's influence. He's ENTp type and has most likely made a theory that E types are "normal" and has patterned a system of some kind out of this idea, which would make sense for an ENTp to do without the full grasp of the spectrum of human behavior and emotionality.
    So, you didn't actually read the article Gulanzon posted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post

    Imagine though some ESE parents and their ILI child. They feel that the child is "different," so they take him to a shrink. To them, he doesn't seem expressive in the way they expect, so he has "restricted affectivity." He talks about what he sees as negative trends...how the U.S. is going down hill and how the sun will burn out and the universe is expanding so life will eventually cease to exist, etc., so he has "depressivity." He gets picked on in school, so he has justified feelings of persecution. He prefers reading or solitary creative activities to social activities, so he has "withdrawal." He doesn't enjoy things the rest of the family enjoys (and maybe hasn't found what he enjoys), so he has "anhedonia." And he hasn't found someone he can relate to, so he has "intimacy avoidance."
    Wow, you pretty well described my ILI husband's childhood right there. Except he doesn't have ESE parents lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    do i get free medication?
    Thats nice. I think Ill change my type now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    Actually, it's the descriptive words, and everything taken together, that makes this sound like a disorder. I could see how a person within the range of normal personality could be incorrectly diagnosed as having a "disorder" from this...And yes, it does have something to do with introversion, although many Socionics-introverts wouldn't remotely fit this description.
    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Going by this type of definitions, you can subscribe at least one disorder to pretty much any living person.
    Most people can relate to one or more given disorders; it doesn't mean they have one or will be diagnosed with one. It's about whether the symptoms interfere with one's ability to properly function.
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    Disorders are just things where a certain group of people are being socially oppressed and are not being understood by their mainstream social community, so it gets labeled as something malignant and destructive because most people can't lighten up about it.

    Short of killing/harming other people, other people's quirks and human foibles aren't necessarily room for the disorder label.

    The DSM could be incredibly simple. Just one page.

    It would be called.

    "Don't hurt other people. An it harm none do what ye will. Are you being a sociopathic douchebag, or is the other side being an hypersensitive twat?"

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    Psychiatrists are so transparent. They are so easy to see through. They can't see others properly and this drives them crazy so they try to control others through fake pills that do nothing and just make themselves stronger (free money for them in exchange for a placebo) but don't really do anything to help people.

    They are the fucked up ones, not the people they are targetting.


    YAY for the artists who see through this bullshit. I SEE RIGHT THROUGH YOU ONCE AGAIN. RIGHT FUCKING THROUGH YOU AT YOUR EVILNESS. PICK ON SOMEONE MY OWN SIZE, YA SHRINK.

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    Okay I want to calm down and apologize for something.

    Even though that psychiatric medicine IS just a Placebo/sugar pill at heart, so is spending money to see an entertaining hollywood flick.

    You don't need to see that movie, it's just fluff, but you pay money for it because of the entertainment it provides. It makes you happy. Everything about capitalism is based on that. It's based on subjective interpersonal exploitation. A dark way of saying it but it's true.

    Naive people who take a pill for the social things they are insecure about, are just really spending money on entertainment; on something they hope will make them feel better. It only has to work because they believe and hope for it to work.

    I guess I view them the same way I view people who are too attached to everything in the media without really knowing who they are as people. People who need to stop being 'fanboys' so much and learn to go their own way.

    Enough joy and hope can make somebody live forever with no illnesses. I really believe that. And the elite/Illuminati already know this.... and they will live forever while most people die due to negativity and sadness. But I really want to help the *entire* human race achieve immortality not just a select people who are ultra-wealthy. =)

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    Off the cuff, they've also made nymphomania a disorder. ("hypersexuality")

    I bet you can guess what range of types THAT applies to....

    But yeah the DSM people are just asking for us sociotype believers to come up and smack them.

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