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Thread: Psychopaths

  1. #1
    Creepy-EddieMorra

    Default Psychopaths

    It's funny how everyone's idea of a psychopath is usually something like this:



    Most psychopaths don't murder people, they think it's too messy and bloody. Think of them as slow poison rather than a knife. They'll slowly kill you and eat away at your emotions until you are a shell of your former self. This is a picture of a how a real psychopath looks like:



    It's all about emotionally manipulating you like a chess piece until they have you where they want. Some food for thought: 4 out of 100 people are psychopaths, therefore 4 out of 100 members in this forum are psychopaths, but I'd say the number is even higher considering it's the internet.

    Sleep tight!

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    Thanks -- I'll be on the lookout for Patrick Bateman look-alikes from now on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Begoner View Post
    Thanks -- I'll be on the lookout for Patrick Bateman look-alikes from now on.
    Quote Originally Posted by EddieMorra View Post
    This is a picture of a how a real psychopath looks like:




    Suit + combed back hair = psychopath?


    On a more analytical note, what sensory inputs sparked this thread, if I may ask?
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  4. #4
    Creepy-EddieMorra

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Begoner View Post
    Thanks -- I'll be on the lookout for Patrick Bateman look-alikes from now on.
    Quote Originally Posted by EddieMorra View Post
    This is a picture of a how a real psychopath looks like:




    Suit + combed back hair = psychopath?


    On a more analytical note, what sensory inputs sparked this thread, if I may ask?
    Haha, good one!

    Something called life experience my friend.

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    hi eddiemorra who the fuck are you

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    Creepy-EddieMorra

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    hi eddiemorra who the fuck are you
    Look at my intro thread, the video will fill you in my friend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EddieMorra View Post
    It's all about emotionally manipulating you like a chess piece until they have you where they want. Some food for thought: 4 out of 100 people are psychopaths, therefore 4 out of 100 members in this forum are psychopaths, but I'd say the number is even higher considering it's the internet.
    Sociopath. And I'm sure that statistic holds up to scrutiny.

  8. #8
    Creepy-EddieMorra

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratsshadow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EddieMorra View Post
    It's all about emotionally manipulating you like a chess piece until they have you where they want. Some food for thought: 4 out of 100 people are psychopaths, therefore 4 out of 100 members in this forum are psychopaths, but I'd say the number is even higher considering it's the internet.
    Sociopath. And I'm sure that statistic holds up to scrutiny.
    Okay, do a voluntary survey and let me know how that works out? mmmm...kay?

  9. #9
    Creepy-male

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    Psychopathy is probably more diffuse with a spectrum and gradients than you've presented it.

    It's not like a switch where 4 people out of a typical 100 person population are "on" and the other 96 people are "off".

    I see it more as a condition which can grow in people and relax, maybe like a fever or some other illness. Sometimes people develop the condition when they never had it before, sometimes it progresses worse and worse, and sometimes exposure around others can cause people to catch the "virus" and begin contracting it.

    In my opinion social values of any given society seems to have a certain degree of sociopathy/psychopathy inherent to itself. I'd argue that American society has certain elements of sociopathy that are considered socially acceptable, its not a lot or an intense case of it, just a little subtle drop of it like maybe a drop of food coloring into a large glass of water which gives it a very slight hue that's almost unnoticeable.

    American psycho to some degree is interesting because I think Patrick Bateman is somewhat a result of his environment. He is a psychopath but its not like a Hannibal Lecturesque psychopath, you clearly see him fratenizing with his vapid and somewhat narcissistic/psychopathic coworkers in 1980's American Corporate Culture. It feels like throughout the movie he is contemptuous of them and that drives him to murder, rather than him just simply being sick. It's like he absorbs the psychopathy of the culture and solely releases it in concentrated doses back on his victim, rather than integrating with the social values that allow for that small dose of it at a time. Throughout the movie there is a sense of slow building tension as he interacts with other people. In my opinion he's not really all that bad, but a product of his culture... which I think is the point of the movie... American Psycho. It's not just a movie about a psychopathic individual, but also a psychopathic culture and the relationship between an individual and that culture.

    At any rate, I still look at psychopathy more as a disease. I also think it develops in stages, anti-social being kind of the first step along the way.

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    Given that a fair amount of psychopaths experienced no significant trauma, and that many people who did grew up to be fine, I'm convinced that it's an inborn 'condition,' not driven by heredity, and an emblem of the instinctive truth behind the American collective mind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I'm convinced that it's an inborn 'condition,' not driven by heredity,
    How can it be inborn and not driven by heredity? Birth defects?
    Basically because in every case where the subject grew up in a stable, privileged environment, no family members who bore a similar condition could be found ('The Mask of Sanity,' Hare).

    some interesting info...



    Hare claims that it may not be a matter of necessity, but potentially choice; I can't see it being simply a matter of the 'psychopathic will' because a)there is an immense amount of programming instilled across all regions of the brain in young children, and b)all of the cases I referred to above showed distinct signs from early childhood.

    What's that mean?
    That our society is driven by a subliminally embedded sense of danger and estrangement in the reptilian brain, and some people come out of the womb more 'naturally adapted.' There's always a central symbol with any imbalance. Motherfuckers needed Jesus, they got Hitler, etc.
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    Psychopaths are precise people with deficient somatic marker systems, there is a split in thinking and feeling taking place in such individuals, that is between feelings and animal propensities and rationality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Psychopaths are precise people with deficient somatic marker systems, there is a split in thinking and feeling taking place in such individuals, that is between feelings and animal propensities and rationality.
    The somatic marker systems are where the precision lies, hence the enhanced activity in the occipital lobe (initial visual processing) and the small, anterior portion of the right hemisphere (imo related to concrete, visual association; it's localized enough to prevent excess emotion and keep things 'simple').

    There isn't so much a split in thinking and feeling as there is a reversal of cerebral processing. Most people register an image based on a precept ingrained into them (occipital), then place it within a social context (left h) that carries emotive/experiential associations (right h); whereas with psychopaths the process is circumvented, with social contexts only applying to the immediate situation, associations made on a purely visual level (right h->occipital) based on others' emotions, and used accordingly.

    Consider:

    It has been theorized that the disruption of the circuit linking the hippocampus with the prefrontal cortex could contribute to the impulsiveness, lack of control and emotional abnormalities observed in psychopaths.
    Fewer than half of both the control subjects and the “successful” psychopaths had an asymmetrical hippocampus.

    Ninety-four percent of the unsuccessful psychopaths had that same abnormality, with the right side of the hippocampus larger than the left.
    I've never figured out exactly how intelligence modulates this, but perhaps it's the reverse, with a heightened CNS/limbic awareness that can maintain proportion.

    the psychopaths’ corpus callosums were an average of 23 percent larger and 7 percent longer than the control groups’.
    The most notable fact of all: the velocity of verbal<–>visual processing is enhanced at the expense of meaningful connections. Is that what they call "living in the moment"?

    Such facility enables the occipital lobe to function with relative autonomy, which lends less credence to it being a "choice." It takes immense effort to rewire the hindbrain, let alone tap into it; to me, it seems psychopaths are engulfed in it like a fish in water.
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    Amanda Knox is imprisoned primarily on basis of the assumption she's a psychopath. Do you think it probable that she is?

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    Imprisoned for psychopathy? What bullshit.

    I don't know much about her. Pictures make it seem more likely than not, but that's not the most reliable indicator. She has the look of a wolf that's been ostracized for no apparent reason, so who knows how this whole proceeding has molded her reptilian instincts. I stress the latter because it's the almost unconscious basis for all of one's attitudes/ideologies/etc., as it always relates to a not-yet-formed collective (think, water hasn't yet solidified, so to say).
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    I'm not convinced by MRI scans because the structure of the brain is dynamic, it changes and responds differently over time. It's no use to show a scan of a psychopath and compare that to a normal person... a better study would follow a subset of children from birth then show a correlation between a consistent difference in the brain's of children who became psychopaths.

    That's not really what that study does, so I'm not really convinced.

    If I had to take a stab at it, I'd guess that sociopathy is a combination of development and environment. Sociopaths probably have more naturally inborn predatorial instinct. More importantly though I think the true determinant for a Sociopath is a high ratio of predatorial instinct to emotional empathy. Sociopaths probably have high predatorial instincts that aren't kept in check by emotional empathy. It's probably more of a relative measure than an absolute one.

    For example people with strong predatorial instincts but also emotional empathy, make more good guardians of other people. Someone isn't necessarily a sociopath merely because they can respond to challenges in their environment and predatorially overcome them due to a strong adrenal/repitalian brain system. It's more the relative ratio of that system being imbalanced with the emotional system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    I'm not convinced by MRI scans because the structure of the brain is dynamic, it changes and responds differently over time. It's no use to show a scan of a psychopath and compare that to a normal person... a better study would follow a subset of children from birth then show a correlation between a consistent difference in the brain's of children who became psychopaths.
    The likelihood of every psychopath tested having evolved such anomalous (and similar...?) brain patterns by mere adaptation to environment is extremely unlikely, for the above-mentioned reasons: the difficulty in 'reprogramming' the reptilian brain and the fact that documented case studies revealed consistent traits from adolescence to adulthood (read 'Mask of Sanity').

    Also consider that there are many people (i.e. criminals) who match the behavioral criteria of sociopathy, but don't demonstrate commensurate brain patterns, and are thus diagnosed antisocial, borderline, etc. Conversely, there are endless cases of psychopaths who were admitted to mental asylums and released soon after because they didn't show any distinct signs of psychological disturbance. Thus it is still sensible to conclude that these brain patterns cannot be simply attributed to environmental adaptation, and since not directly related to personality disorders, are a 'mutation' of their own. Whence?

    If I had to take a stab at it, I'd guess that sociopathy is a combination of development and environment. Sociopaths probably have more naturally inborn predatorial instinct. More importantly though I think the true determinant for a Sociopath is a high ratio of predatorial instinct to emotional empathy. Sociopaths probably have high predatorial instincts that aren't kept in check by emotional empathy. It's probably more of a relative measure than an absolute one. For example people with strong predatorial instincts but also emotional empathy, make more good guardians of other people. Someone isn't necessarily a sociopath merely because they can respond to challenges in their environment and predatorially overcome them due to a strong adrenal/repitalian brain system. It's more the relative ratio of that system being imbalanced with the emotional system.
    The adrenal/reptilian system and emotional system are one and the same, neurologically speaking. Thus, your supposition about the inverse relationship between predatorial instincts and empathy (the former being largely genetic, the latter sociological – which further confirms the argument for inborn psychopathy) is, aside from being baseless, false.
    Last edited by strrrng; 06-25-2011 at 02:10 AM.
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  18. #18
    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    I'm not convinced by MRI scans because the structure of the brain is dynamic, it changes and responds differently over time. It's no use to show a scan of a psychopath and compare that to a normal person... a better study would follow a subset of children from birth then show a correlation between a consistent difference in the brain's of children who became psychopaths.
    Says the person who's claiming psychopaths can be 'become.' The likelihood of every psychopath tested having evolved such anomalous brain patterns by mere adaptation to environment is extremely unlikely, for the above-mentioned reasons: the difficulty in 'reprogramming' the reptilian brain and the fact that documented case studies revealed consistent traits from adolescence to adulthood (read 'Mask of Sanity').

    Also consider that there are many people (i.e. criminals) who match the behavioral criteria of sociopathy, but don't demonstrate commensurate brain patterns, and are thus diagnosed antisocial, borderline, etc. Conversely, there are endless cases of psychopaths who were admitted to mental asylums and released soon after because they didn't show any distinct signs of psychological disturbance. Thus it is still sensible to conclude that these brain patterns cannot be simply attributed to environmental adaptation, and since not directly related to personality disorders, are a 'mutation' of their own. Whence?

    If I had to take a stab at it, I'd guess that sociopathy is a combination of development and environment. Sociopaths probably have more naturally inborn predatorial instinct. More importantly though I think the true determinant for a Sociopath is a high ratio of predatorial instinct to emotional empathy. Sociopaths probably have high predatorial instincts that aren't kept in check by emotional empathy. It's probably more of a relative measure than an absolute one. For example people with strong predatorial instincts but also emotional empathy, make more good guardians of other people. Someone isn't necessarily a sociopath merely because they can respond to challenges in their environment and predatorially overcome them due to a strong adrenal/repitalian brain system. It's more the relative ratio of that system being imbalanced with the emotional system.
    The adrenal/reptilian system and emotional system are one and the same, neurologically speaking. Thus, your supposition about the inverse relationship between predatorial instincts and empathy (the former being largely genetic, the latter sociological – which further confirms the argument for inborn psychopathy) is, aside from being baseless, false.
    lol they are not the same system and I get the sense you want your chosen theory to be correct for personal reasons or something.

    By emotional system, I don't mean the amygdala or primal emotions, but the emotional systems present in other areas of the brain that are more recent evolutionarily.

    Neuroscience is not as simple as that, the systems of the brain are extremely complex and interlinked... you can't just consider the amygdala but also how it interfaces with virtually every other major neurological subsystem in the brain, including the frontal lobe.

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    I read an article in a magazine the other day that said most people in powerful positions (like CEOs) are actually psychopaths. I wouldn't doubt it.

    None of these are the actual article that I read, but you get the idea :

    http://blogs.forbes.com/jeffbercovic...ke-great-ceos/

    http://www.mogulite.com/psychopath-ceo/

    Forbes has an interview with researcher Jon Ronson who just penned a new book studying psychopathy, in which it’s revealed that 4 percent of CEOs are psychopaths, while only 1 percent of the population exhibit these abnormal, antisocial behaviors. That means one in every 25 CEOs is a psychopath!

    According to Ronson, these psychopath CEOs “lack the things that make you human: Empathy, remorse, loving kindness.”
    It's really creepy knowing that a good deal of people in up there in the big leagues are possibly psychopaths. No wonder the world is going to such shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    lol they are not the same system and I get the sense you want your chosen theory to be correct for personal reasons or something.

    By emotional system, I don't mean the amygdala or primal emotions, but the emotional systems present in other areas of the brain that are more recent evolutionarily.
    The same systems govern them. More recently evolved emotions are the result of programming in the neo-cortex that connects the basic drives stemming from the reptilian/limbic system to abstractions generated in the left hemisphere, i.e. morality, a fear-driven, rather obsessive need for interpersonal equality concerning the motivations of actions. Also consider the nature of the emotion experienced by males who protect women from abusive males. Territory and sex are virtually identical on a primordial level.

    Neuroscience is not as simple as that, the systems of the brain are extremely complex and interlinked... you can't just consider the amygdala but also how it interfaces with virtually every other major neurological subsystem in the brain, including the frontal lobe.
    The complexity of the systems only lends less credence to your abstractions of "predatorial instincts" and "empathy."
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    The same systems govern them. More recently evolved emotions are the result of programming in the neo-cortex that connects the basic drives stemming from the reptilian/limbic system to abstractions generated in the left hemisphere, i.e. morality, a fear-driven, rather obsessive need for interpersonal equality concerning the motivations of actions. Also consider the nature of the emotion experienced by males who protect women from abusive males. Territory and sex are virtually identical on a primordial level.
    I still think you are over simplifying. It's not like just because the reptilian brain is older its more powerful and thus governs above all other aspects of cognition. I look at it more modular, as in other systems are superimposed on top of the reptilian brain. It's like plugging in extra hardware onto an existing machine and installing addons. It makes the technology more modular and complex. The evolution of the brain is probably closer to this.

    Also its a bit misleading to classify the reptilian brain as the "fear based brain". If you were going to be strictly materialist about it, its not fear based or based on anything other than being an older version of a neurological system that has since evolved in mammals and primates. In terms of materialism... what is fear? Fear is a subjective experience.

    Neuroscience is really in its infancy, they try to connect too much subjective experience to particular systems. This part of the brain is the ____ part and so forth. If one were to assume that animals experience subjective experience in a manner similar to humans and other living organisms, that leaves a wide gap in reasoning. Why do microscopic organisms or insects seem fearful when attacked when they don't have a reptilian brain?

    Also there is the question of how these systems responsible for subjective experience evolved from nothing in the first place. When modular adjustments were made to an organisms nervous system, how did these magically bring out "subjective experience"? Likely they didn't likely that subjective experience already existed but the nervous system evolved to better process its environment and information. That's what a nervous system does... it takes in data from sensory organs and relays it to other areas of the body.

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    The complexity of the systems only lends less credence to your abstractions of "predatorial instincts" and "empathy."
    I'm not trying to build credence or whatever... my argument isn't that I know its about predatorial instincts and empathy, that was a guess... my argument is that I'm not sold on the fact its inborn. The thing about predatorial instincts was only to offer a counter example as one possible alternative.

    I'm going to be presumptious and guess your so set on sticking to such a hard theory to prove because you have an emotional attachment to your theory. You want to believe psychopathy is inborn so that you can rationalize psychopathy away in yourself and others as it just being their nature (they can't help it) or you want to feel safe knowing that your not a psychopath and people can't change that in you.

    To some degree I am the opposite, I have value attachments to it being the opposite. I think people can change, overcome their mental illness, evolve, and grow... but that also means that people can also do the opposite and become sick and digress unless they are vigilant to keep their state of mental health well maintained.

    Rationally though... just looking at the concept of evolution, the theory of development of psychology seems to make more sense, tbh. Things evolve, the brain evolves on a large scale throughout organisms across species and eras... and it evolves on a small scale with the individual. In some ways we are products of our heredity but that can change on the large scale across several lifetimes and generations, and on the small scale people can change as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    I still think you are over simplifying. It's not like just because the reptilian brain is older its more powerful and thus governs above all other aspects of cognition. I look at it more modular, as in other systems are superimposed on top of the reptilian brain. It's like plugging in extra hardware onto an existing machine and installing addons. It makes the technology more modular and complex. The evolution of the brain is probably closer to this.
    I didn't say it was more powerful per se, but there is a certain level of precedence it has, by sheer virtue of necessarily evolving first. The reason why, I would rather not go into, as it would entail an occult discourse. But what I'm basically saying is that, no matter how enmeshed in neo-cortical, subjective experience one is, they are always first and foremost responding to this primordial realm, and its existence is only obscured because our society is cleverly constructed such that it seems generally irrelevant.

    Also its a bit misleading to classify the reptilian brain as the "fear based brain". If you were going to be strictly materialist about it, its not fear based or based on anything other than being an older version of a neurological system that has since evolved in mammals and primates. In terms of materialism... what is fear? Fear is a subjective experience.
    I said morality was fear-driven, not the reptilian brain. The latter is where fear, anger, etc. are processed and governed, thus the basis of a need to equalize motivations (hardly tied to morals themselves) across a spectrum of behaviors. This is also the root of psychiatry.

    Neuroscience is really in its infancy, they try to connect too much subjective experience to particular systems. This part of the brain is the ____ part and so forth. If one were to assume that animals experience subjective experience in a manner similar to humans and other living organisms, that leaves a wide gap in reasoning. Why do microscopic organisms or insects seem fearful when attacked when they don't have a reptilian brain?
    I agree re: infancy, which is why I'll only think in these terms out of necessity, i.e. concrete reference.

    As for microscopic organisms "experiencing fear," this has more to do with certain aspects of Nature I'd rather not bring into this discussion; but I don't at all think subjective consciousness (at the level humans possess) is necessary for such a behavior. Additionally, in terms of psychopaths being engulfed in the reptilian brain, I think this should illustrate the difference between a 'normal' person's subjective experience of fear and a psychopath's experience of an obstacle (it's been consistently noted that they don't experience fear with similar emotional connotations).

    Also there is the question of how these systems responsible for subjective experience evolved from nothing in the first place. When modular adjustments were made to an organisms nervous system, how did these magically bring out "subjective experience"? Likely they didn't likely that subjective experience already existed but the nervous system evolved to better process its environment and information. That's what a nervous system does... it takes in data from sensory organs and relays it to other areas of the body.
    This is complete occult territory. All I'll say, is that the physical process are figurative expressions of those that commence on higher dimensions before being filtered into our density awareness.

    I'm going to be presumptious and guess your so set on sticking to such a hard theory to prove because you have an emotional attachment to your theory. You want to believe psychopathy is inborn so that you can rationalize psychopathy away in yourself and others as it just being their nature (they can't help it) or you want to feel safe knowing that your not a psychopath and people can't change that in you.
    lol yet another speculation. I'm neither proud of a presumed psychopathy in myself, or afraid of its possibility; I'm merely concluding based on all the information I've gathered. A clinical diagnosis in the Navy said I was sociopathic, but that was more of an aptitude test.

    Rationally though... just looking at the concept of evolution, the theory of development of psychology seems to make more sense, tbh. Things evolve, the brain evolves on a large scale throughout organisms across species and eras... and it evolves on a small scale with the individual. In some ways we are products of our heredity but that can change on the large scale across several lifetimes and generations, and on the small scale people can change as well.
    Of course it evolves across generations/lifetimes. This is why I didn't want to bring mystical/occult aspects into this lol. I'm just trying to give the most cogent explanation of the phenomenon within the present parameters. A psychopath in this life is just balancing karmic debt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    It's really creepy knowing that a good deal of people in up there in the big leagues are possibly psychopaths. No wonder the world is going to such shit.
    We're not as fucked up as we could be.

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    Meh we probably won't see eye to eye on this, I personally think psychopathy is derived from a set of characteristics that are present in ones nature that over time develop to fruition.

    Further I think the reason for why its so hard to revert a psychopath isn't because its so inborn, but rather its hard to dislodge the mentality once its taken its seat. Psychopaths by nature will pretend to be "converted" in order to carry out their personal agenda, so its hard to determine exactly if you've converted one or not. That's the fundamental problem, its trust, psychopaths have already cultivated a deep seated belief that they shouldn't trust or depend or involve themselves with anyone but themselves. You can't connect with their true self, so you can't really have an impact on them.

    I would go about a more methodical case to make my point, but I just don't have the time to waste on this topic.

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    On neuroscience and psychopathy - I haven't read it yet, but this paper looks interesting Structural brain abnormalities in psychopaths—a review.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    One twin study suggests that psychopathy has a strong genetic component. The study demonstrates that children with anti-social behavior can be classified into two groups: those who were also callous acquired their behavior by genetic influences, and those who were not callous acquired it from their environment.
    From what I've read on Wikipedia (I haven't checked out the actual papers... I Wikipedia! ) the development of psychopathy is probably multifactorial... which is unsurprising, since that's the norm for seemingly every other psychological condition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Although the research is still in its infancy, some recent evidence has emerged that suggest high doses of prenatal estrogen exposure might exacerbate a predisposition to psychopathy, especially in males. A recent British study, utilizing the digit ratio, concluded that there is in fact a phenotypic marker to support this theory. It is thought that larger doses of prenatal estrogen may inhibit brain formation, especially in regards to the prefrontal cortex, which is usually associated with impulse control. Other phenotypic and cognitive outcomes of substantial prenatal estrogen exposure, especially in males, could be a more feminine appearance (which is usually perceived as less threatening to both men and women) and thus may give a psychopath an even greater edge in psychological deception, in addition to greater verbal abilities.


    He definitely spits in other models' shoes.

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    A clinical diagnosis in the Navy said I was sociopathic, but that was more of an aptitude test.
    a more feminine appearance... in addition to greater verbal abilities.
    He was probably bowled over by your extensive vocabulary and beta NF good looks
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    Meh we probably won't see eye to eye on this, I personally think psychopathy is derived from a set of characteristics that are present in ones nature that over time develop to fruition.
    well, whatever, I was kind of drunk. I just find it hard to see psychopathy as some sort of 'self awaiting actualization.' shrug.

    Further I think the reason for why its so hard to revert a psychopath isn't because its so inborn, but rather its hard to dislodge the mentality once its taken its seat. Psychopaths by nature will pretend to be "converted" in order to carry out their personal agenda, so its hard to determine exactly if you've converted one or not. That's the fundamental problem, its trust, psychopaths have already cultivated a deep seated belief that they shouldn't trust or depend or involve themselves with anyone but themselves. You can't connect with their true self, so you can't really have an impact on them.
    Honestly, by this logic I would be psychopathic. Witnessing a rather chaotic divorce at the age of 4 pretty much ingrained conflict into me, and I developed a strong ability to detach, gauge less-than-pleasant intentions, etc. It's gotten me into trouble all my life, being able to control situations of social conflict and never feel much remorse for doing so ('they participated too, right?'), but I'm not an actual psychopath. I actually relate much more to what you said about being protective. Ultimately I just think there's a difference between not budging on some psycho-social attitude you've adopted, and being utterly blind to any semblance of personal connection.

    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    He was probably bowled over by your extensive vocabulary and beta NF good looks
    lol I remember the petty officer saying, "You see this case... Wilson... some pretty disturbing stuff there." I'm only psychotic once you get to know me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post



    :
    Creepy... it's like a woman's face on a 16 year old boys body. Just googled him. He's of Serbian decent.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    I'm not convinced by MRI scans because the structure of the brain is dynamic, it changes and responds differently over time. It's no use to show a scan of a psychopath and compare that to a normal person... a better study would follow a subset of children from birth then show a correlation between a consistent difference in the brain's of children who became psychopaths.
    Don't make declarative statements if you don't know the science. Besides, that would be a very difficult study to conduct. Who would submit their children to such a study?

    That's not really what that study does, so I'm not really convinced.

    If I had to take a stab at it, I'd guess that sociopathy is a combination of development and environment. Sociopaths probably have more naturally inborn predatorial instinct. More importantly though I think the true determinant for a Sociopath is a high ratio of predatorial instinct to emotional empathy. Sociopaths probably have high predatorial instincts that aren't kept in check by emotional empathy. It's probably more of a relative measure than an absolute one.
    I've done my research. It's a highly destructive personality co-morbid with antisocial personality disorder. Think UBL but without the adroit sense of personal responsibility. Their most distinguishing feature is a sense of satisfaction from killing, rather than regret as most people would/do feel.

    For example people with strong predatorial instincts but also emotional empathy, make more good guardians of other people. Someone isn't necessarily a sociopath merely because they can respond to challenges in their environment and predatorially overcome them due to a strong adrenal/repitalian brain system. It's more the relative ratio of that system being imbalanced with the emotional system.
    Right. Back to UBL again. The destroyer/goth personality.

    But yeah I think whether she realizes it or not Knox's destiny lies in confronting her psychopathic nature. When she does, she will have a future as an advocate for psychopaths. The Italians would probably forgive her then. I mean there are strong arguments for her being a psychopath, unless she wasn't making up those charges against the police.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post



    He definitely spits in other models' shoes.
    Damn he looks familiar.... :\

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    The somatic marker systems are where the precision lies
    That's what I said, thanks.

    There isn't so much a split in thinking and feeling as there is a reversal of cerebral processing.
    There is and you're missing the point completely.

    I'm going to do a bit of "magic" right now and ask what you what do you think about extreme skepticism. Often you'll hear "the highest knowledge is knowing that you don't know anything" and such bullshit.

    Ready, steady, go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    The somatic marker systems are where the precision lies
    That's what I said, thanks.
    Oh?

    Psychopaths are precise people with deficient somatic marker systems
    There isn't so much a split in thinking and feeling as there is a reversal of cerebral processing.
    There is and you're missing the point completely.
    there is a split in thinking and feeling taking place in such individuals, that is between feelings and animal propensities and rationality
    Convenient that you add the "animal propensities" part after its having been explained past the degree of banal, mbti-esque dichotomies.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Don't make declarative statements if you don't know the science.
    I probably know more "hard science" than you, my degree was in physics, and I've taken classes on evolution, studied nuclear magnetic resonance -- what an MRI uses (Magnetic Resonance Imaging) to scan the brain, and read up on the anatomy and structure of the brain. I took anatomy in high school and did a project on the brain because I wanted to be a doctor back in high school.

    I'm not making random declarative statements, I know the science, I just don't have the time to waste on arguing this point into the ground.

    My point is that it hasn't been proven, and it hasn't, no one has proven "nature" over "nuture" scientifically. It's fine if you disagree with that statement but don't try to unfairly characterize my knowledge base, saying "I'm not convinced by X study because of Y" isn't a declarative statement, its called being critical of studies.

    Your really not worth arguing with though, its just that your coddle your pet theories like they were body parts and stuff, and if someone disagrees you act like they injured a part of your self... you need to stop being so attached to your ideas. Most normal people would take my criticism as a lead in to a discussion, but really on here for some reason my failure to submissively digest and agree with a video strrrng posted has lead to a bit of an offended attitude or something, and a requirement for people to "put me into my place" by insulting my intellect.... only on this forum lol.

    I'm out....
    Last edited by male; 06-25-2011 at 07:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Convenient that you add the "animal propensities" part after its having been explained past the degree of banal, mbti-esque dichotomies.
    I wasn't talking socionics, MBTI nor any dichotomies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Don't make declarative statements if you don't know the science.
    I probably know more "hard science" than you, my degree was in physics, and I've taken classes on evolution, studied nuclear magnetic resonance -- what an MRI uses (Magnetic Resonance Imaging) to scan the brain, and read up on the anatomy and structure of the brain. I took anatomy in high school and did a project on the brain because I wanted to be a doctor back in high school.

    I'm not making random declarative statements, I know the science, I just don't have the time to waste on arguing this point into the ground.

    My point is that it hasn't been proven, and it hasn't, no one has proven "nature" over "nuture" scientifically. It's fine if you disagree with that statement but don't try to unfairly characterize my knowledge base, saying "I'm not convinced by X study because of Y" isn't a declarative statement, its called being critical of studies.

    Your really not worth arguing with though, its just that your coddle your pet theories like they were body parts and stuff, and if someone disagrees you act like they injured a part of your self... you need to stop being so attached to your ideas. Most normal people would take my criticism as a lead in to a discussion, but really on here for some reason my failure to submissively digest and agree with a video strrrng posted has lead to a bit of an offended attitude or something, and a requirement for people to "put me into my place" by insulting my intellect.... only on this forum lol.

    I'm out....
    It's not my fault you can't reason the exclusion of possibilities worth a fuck. Be the bigger man and acknowledge your weaknesses....

    It's not an idea... that's where you've screwed up. LIIs don't value ideas except to the extent they can lend to understanding of the world around us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    I wasn't talking socionics, MBTI nor any dichotomies.
    The dichotomy you offered was of the same caliber as mbti, hence '-esque.'
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    well, whatever, I was kind of drunk. I just find it hard to see psychopathy as some sort of 'self awaiting actualization.' shrug.
    I have to respond to this, not to continue the debate, but because I think this is a gross mischaracterization of my viewpoint.

    What you are saying makes it sound like psychopathy is a virus in incubation waiting to come into it's being, like how HIV leads to AIDs.

    I'm saying its not like that at all, but more that one's innate psychology and neurology provides a platform for it to grow and develop through life experience. More comparable to the way mold grows on a wet surface with biological material. You wouldn't say that just because a surface is wet mold will grow there, the mold must be presented into the equation.

    The same way I think an environment has to be presented to someone with the propensity for psychopathy for it to come into being.

    I'm saying that the innate psychology that exists provides a good environment for the condition to develop in, rather than it being like a prophecy or something, that it will be this way etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post

    I probably know more "hard science" than you, my degree was in physics, and I've taken classes on evolution, studied nuclear magnetic resonance -- what an MRI uses (Magnetic Resonance Imaging) to scan the brain, and read up on the anatomy and structure of the brain. I took anatomy in high school and did a project on the brain because I wanted to be a doctor back in high school.

    I'm not making random declarative statements, I know the science, I just don't have the time to waste on arguing this point into the ground.

    My point is that it hasn't been proven, and it hasn't, no one has proven "nature" over "nuture" scientifically. It's fine if you disagree with that statement but don't try to unfairly characterize my knowledge base, saying "I'm not convinced by X study because of Y" isn't a declarative statement, its called being critical of studies.

    Your really not worth arguing with though, its just that your coddle your pet theories like they were body parts and stuff, and if someone disagrees you act like they injured a part of your self... you need to stop being so attached to your ideas. Most normal people would take my criticism as a lead in to a discussion, but really on here for some reason my failure to submissively digest and agree with a video strrrng posted has lead to a bit of an offended attitude or something, and a requirement for people to "put me into my place" by insulting my intellect.... only on this forum lol.

    I'm out....
    It's not my fault you can't reason the exclusion of possibilities worth a fuck. Be the bigger man and acknowledge your weaknesses....

    It's not an idea... that's where you've screwed up. LIIs don't value ideas except to the extent they can lend to understanding of the world around us.
    You're ridiculous, go back to your dating site and anime blogs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    The same way I think an environment has to be presented to someone with the propensity for psychopathy for it to come into being.

    I'm saying that the innate psychology that exists provides a good environment for the condition to develop in, rather than it being like a prophecy or something, that it will be this way etc...
    Make up your mind – does an environment facilitate it, or does the predisposition "create" a conducive environment?

    Regardless, the multitude of subjects who demonstrated the condition from early childhood, despite growing up in a secure, privileged environment with no family members doing the same, contradicts either notion.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    You're ridiculous, go back to your dating site and anime blogs.
    Don't mock the (no longer) dating site, this is serious business, besides, let's "correlate" IM functions to sociopathy and put in boxes.

    By the way, you want candy ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    The same way I think an environment has to be presented to someone with the propensity for psychopathy for it to come into being.

    I'm saying that the innate psychology that exists provides a good environment for the condition to develop in, rather than it being like a prophecy or something, that it will be this way etc...
    Make up your mind – does an environment facilitate it, or does the predisposition "create" a conducive environment?

    Regardless, the multitude of subjects who demonstrated the condition from early childhood, despite growing up in a secure, privileged environment with no family members doing the same, contradicts either notion.
    I said before, I wasn't going to debate it out, I was just clarifying my position... now to clarify things further, even though I probably shouldn't waste the time.

    environment in the first bolded text is talking about the environment external to the self

    in the second bolded text, environment is referring to the environment internal to the self

    Which is a bit confusing I admit, but those two bolded areas don't contradict themselves.

    Also your over attaching to the idea that only an insecure, under privileged environment, with anitsocial family members in early childhood can create a psychopath. I'm not saying the environment has to have X characteristics, I'm just saying the environment could potentially play a role and that I'm unconvinced and skeptical of the notion of it purely being innate.

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