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Thread: Which type is most heroic?

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    Default Which type is most heroic?

    I vote for SLI.

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    SEE

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    Do you people seriously like to talk about stupid and useless hypotheses for caricatures ? Does this shit amuse you for real ? How about "Which individuals are most likely to fail at life?"

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    SLI is obsessed with saving people. This makes them the most heroic.

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    response is quite reactive without stopping to think before they act. I wouldn't call that heroic. But, on the other hand, it was my father, SLI, who saved me from near drowning accident when I was 19 because of this quick heroic response. Yeah, I guess that would make them good, on the scene, respondents, hence fire fighters. But, they can also be impulsive and get themselves into fights that they can't estimate the damages to before they act/react, causing a lot of undue physical harm to themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    But, on the other hand, it was my father, SLI, who saved me from near drowning accident when I was 19 because of this quick heroic response.
    Hm, I guess every father would act quickly and save his daughter in this situation, don't you think so?
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewBorn STAR View Post
    Do you people seriously like to talk about stupid and useless hypotheses for caricatures ? Does this shit amuse you for real ? How about "Which individuals are most likely to fail at life?"

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    I'm going to take a wild guess and say that there are heroic people of all types and no one type is more heroic than the others.
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    SLE
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    SEE, SLI, a reformed SLE, and an IEI with signs from God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    I'm going to take a wild guess and say that there are heroic people of all types and no one type is more heroic than the others.
    Yeah. Heroism primarily depends on opportunity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewBorn STAR View Post
    "Which individuals are most likely to fail at life?"
    You.
    Next question.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    LII-IEI's

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    LII-IEI's
    Nah, those are the most badass. He asked for the most heroic.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    LII-IEI's
    Nah, those are the most badass. He asked for the most heroic.
    The only reputable LII-IEI I know of is the guy who proved the existence of sociopathy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    We are all capable of acts of heroism when we speak out, search for the truth, abide by conscience, and say and act in our beliefs where they are reasonable, factual, logical, and moral, as subjective as that sounds, and cut through the silence, the herd mentality, and are true to ourselves.

    Cowardice, after all, is to sell ourselves short, depend on others to think for us, decide for us, to not listen to all sides and think with our own reason and conscience in light of evidence, to be too afraid to be heard and to be too afraid to be the only one speaking and to be too afraid to stand alone or else to change one's mind or even to stop with playing the martyr and go along with others who are doing the right thing.

    But to be heroic is to be comfortable with oneself, go by convictions, and speak one's mind whether it's convenient to do so or not.
    I would mostly agree.. The only thing I would emphasize on top of that is that the "hero" needs some sense of action in all of this conviction. Whether it's removing discomfort (especially for others) or upheaving an existing structure. Si/Se. We can all be principled, but if we don't exactly do a lot to change things it doesn't mean anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    I vote for SLI.
    yeah I think so too.

    SLE is fearless in dealing with people, but the SLI is fearless in dealing with the environment, survival etc.

    SLI's also like the adrenaline that comes with it, so they probably most likely to step up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewBorn STAR View Post
    Do you people seriously like to talk about stupid and useless hypotheses for caricatures ? Does this shit amuse you for real ? How about "Which individuals are most likely to fail at life?"
    Blasting Tcaud and the forum for stereotyping by grossly stereotyping them all.. Hilarious contradiction, isn't it dumbshit?
    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NewBorn STAR View Post
    Do you people seriously like to talk about stupid and useless hypotheses for caricatures ? Does this shit amuse you for real ? How about "Which individuals are most likely to fail at life?"
    Like the approval of a cowardly, conservative and gay sheeple means anything

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratsshadow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NewBorn STAR View Post
    Do you people seriously like to talk about stupid and useless hypotheses for caricatures ? Does this shit amuse you for real ? How about "Which individuals are most likely to fail at life?"
    Blasting Tcaud and the forum for stereotyping while grossly stereotyping them all.. Hilarious contradiction, isn't it dumbshit?
    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Get fucked in the ass
    I guess rat is saying LII is the most heroic.

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    Well if you consider our imperialistic american military heroic I have to go with Delta STs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    SLI is obsessed with saving people. This makes them the most heroic.
    This is not true. While they are perhaps the most inclined to take action and save people - "the firefighter doing his job" stereotype - they are certainly not "obsessed" by it. The way you put it sounds like an attitude Betas are prone to - looking forward for heroic deeds, craving for it. Neither Socionics says that, not I know SLIs IRL having such inclinations, in fact some I know expressed disgust for eager hero wannabes. They don't find ethical to look forward for catastrophes merely to boost your ego. They are modest and after doing some heroic shit they reply like "it was the right thing to do", "I just did my duty/job", "it was necessary", etc. They draw motivation out of necessity, they are interested in the practical, heroic idealism is one of the last things they're interested in, as far as I can tell.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratsshadow View Post
    Like the approval of a cowardly, conservative and gay sheeple means anything
    hi crazedrat

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratsshadow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NewBorn STAR View Post
    Do you people seriously like to talk about stupid and useless hypotheses for caricatures ? Does this shit amuse you for real ? How about "Which individuals are most likely to fail at life?"
    Blasting Tcaud and the forum for stereotyping by grossly stereotyping them all.. Hilarious contradiction, isn't it dumbshit?
    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Like the approval of a cowardly, conservative and gay sheeple means anything
    Lol at you seemingly taking me seriously.

    First of all. The information gained here would most likely to come to the conclusion that oh lawl we have subjective criteria about which types are most likely to be thought to be heroic based on what brainfarts the individuals come with. Which are to some extent influenced by quandra values, as the individual identifies with certain quandra just makes it more likely. But other than that i find it extremely too subjective as its obvious that any type can behave within whatever criteria that someone thinks is worth calling heroic. Usually stemmed by some virtue that the individual projects as worthy of having. But of course you know this.

    The comment about which individuals most likely to fail at life was mostly sarcastic and i didnt think about it in serious manner there is no way i would find that interesting either. It was mostly just expression of annoyment from the view that stemms from upper writing.

    Im creep of a beast btw and i wondered upon as you introduced me to the nakshatra system and since then i have found it immensely helpful. I have been wondering, why do you think the system works ? Its almost magical.

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    I cant even explain how it works, it just does. It amazes me too

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    Does it fucking annoy anyone else how people reinforce the idea that soldiers, police, firefighters etc are "heroes".

    I mean I used to think the same thing when I was 3, but then I grew up.

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    Yeah that whole thing is just a joke. I live on an Airforce base. I've seen how soldiers behave and who they are. They're in it for the money and maybe to kill a towel head or two. They know wearing a uniform gets your dick sucked alot easier. They think "America.. Fuck yeah". But they aren't heroes until they get thrown out into the battlefield and jump on a grenade. If they come back in a bodybag then they can be heroes. Even then though.. they're never heroes for some global mission of upholding America.

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    Yea well even outside those sentiments, which I mostly agree with, its completely illogical. I mean it's not like going through basic and sliding on a uniform puts you through some magical transformation and changes your basic humanity and makes you like some divine protector.

    It's just an 8-12 week period to teach you how to be a soldier. How to work in a group, fire a rifle, give orders, take orders, march in step, have endurance, take initiative, and so forth. And as for the uniform, anyone can purchase one in a military surplus store.

    I love it too how all the advertisements for the military makes it seem like something amazing, like you undergo a personal transformation when joining, like its some religious experience or profound character building experience.

    I mean I could go to the shooting range fire off a couple of rounds until I meet military specifications, do physical training until I reach the target cutoffs, and so forth and so forth and so forth. But I promise you, no one would go around telling you, you were a hero for doing so. I further promise you, if you told someone what you did, and then asked them if they thought you were a hero, they would be confused at the idea of it....

    Really it seems like it comes down to social indoctrination. It's a convenient belief to have, that the guardians of one's "tribe" are all heroes, it makes people feel safe, it makes soldiers feel respected, and it makes people feel like everything is good/noble.

    It's simply not true, in war the enemy shooting at you and stabbing a bayonet through your face goes home to here the same propoganda about them.

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    Sacrificing yourself for the elite IS Heroic (to the elite ).
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    Sacrificing yourself for the elite IS Heroic (to the elite ).
    lol

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    I definitely think firefighters are heroes, for the most part. I wouldn't bundle them with soldiers. There's just a complete lack of the political angle there on why soldiers even do what they do and the powers that be that tell them to do these things - it all may be heroic, but it's up for the question more than firefighters imo.

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    I could be wrong here, but I tend to think that soldiers, when they're out on the battlefield, are more concerned with their own group of men, protecting each other and getting the job done without getting killed, than they really care about the bigger picture of how great their country is. Because frankly, America is going to the dogs. But I can see how that feeling of camaraderie would override everything else and you'd be willing to give your life so that the other soldiers in your platoon (or whatever it's called) can make it back to their families.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I could be wrong here, but I tend to think that soldiers, when they're out on the battlefield, are more concerned with their own group of men, protecting each other and getting the job done without getting killed, than they really care about the bigger picture of how great their country is. Because frankly, America is going to the dogs. But I can see how that feeling of camaraderie would override everything else and you'd be willing to give your life so that the other soldiers in your platoon (or whatever it's called) can make it back to their families.
    The Iraqi death toll since the war started has a wide range of estimates, but all seem to agree the number is over 100,000. One number has it up at 1,000,000. Whatever the amount is, it's way higher than the number of troops we've lost over there. If these people were truly heroic they would refuse to participate in such brutality. The US troops are actually complete cowards for their compliance.
    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    Yea well even outside those sentiments, which I mostly agree with, its completely illogical. I mean it's not like going through basic and sliding on a uniform puts you through some magical transformation and changes your basic humanity and makes you like some divine protector.

    It's just an 8-12 week period to teach you how to be a soldier. How to work in a group, fire a rifle, give orders, take orders, march in step, have endurance, take initiative, and so forth. And as for the uniform, anyone can purchase one in a military surplus store.

    I love it too how all the advertisements for the military makes it seem like something amazing, like you undergo a personal transformation when joining, like its some religious experience or profound character building experience.

    I mean I could go to the shooting range fire off a couple of rounds until I meet military specifications, do physical training until I reach the target cutoffs, and so forth and so forth and so forth. But I promise you, no one would go around telling you, you were a hero for doing so. I further promise you, if you told someone what you did, and then asked them if they thought you were a hero, they would be confused at the idea of it....

    Really it seems like it comes down to social indoctrination. It's a convenient belief to have, that the guardians of one's "tribe" are all heroes, it makes people feel safe, it makes soldiers feel respected, and it makes people feel like everything is good/noble.

    It's simply not true, in war the enemy shooting at you and stabbing a bayonet through your face goes home to here the same propoganda about them.
    I've read patriotism is one of the key elements to creating social compliance. Another one is fear. I see that patriotic troop respect sentimental shit as guised government oppression, and it's probably a way of keeping the troops in line too. People who get inspired by it are my personal laughing stock.
    Last edited by rat1; 06-21-2011 at 06:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    SLI's also like the adrenaline that comes with it, so they probably most likely to step up.
    What? Oh, MBTI guy.

    But yeah, I definitely say SEE, and yes it depends, any type could be a hero, but SEE Russell Crowe is the badass Gladiator who has a really hearty down-to-earthness, wisdom, depth of feeling. I see something very heroic in some SEEs, just how they're oriented to thrive in direct reality, and have a solid maturity, confidence, inner and outer strength and work ethic, esp. when older. I get the same feeling when I watch other SEEs like Mickey Rourke and Johnny Knoxville, even if it doesn't compute to external codes of conduct. It's the inner naturalness of filling their body and seeing everything they need to see in the moment that makes it more real for me. Not all of them can take that SeFi power and harness it wisely like a true hero.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poli View Post
    SEE
    Quote Originally Posted by poli View Post
    But yeah, I definitely say SEE, and yes it depends, any type could be a hero, but SEE Russell Crowe is the badass Gladiator who has a really hearty down-to-earthness, wisdom, depth of feeling. I see something very heroic in some SEEs, just how they're oriented to thrive in direct reality, and have a solid maturity, confidence, inner and outer strength and work ethic, esp. when older. I get the same feeling when I watch other SEEs like Mickey Rourke and Johnny Knoxville, even if it doesn't compute to external codes of conduct. It's the inner naturalness of filling their body and seeing everything they need to see in the moment that makes it more real for me. Not all of them can take that SeFi power and use it wisely like a true hero.
    thanks - and yep, if something needs done, I have a way of just doing it... hell, the last time I went shopping for food at Buehler's, I cleaned up all the carts out of the parking lot for everyone there - how are cars supposed to go nice and fast in the parking lot with those carts littered everywhere?
    Last edited by woofwoofl; 06-21-2011 at 07:16 AM. Reason: poli was being awesome again and I had to quote all the new stuff too :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I could be wrong here, but I tend to think that soldiers, when they're out on the battlefield, are more concerned with their own group of men, protecting each other and getting the job done without getting killed, than they really care about the bigger picture of how great their country is. Because frankly, America is going to the dogs. But I can see how that feeling of camaraderie would override everything else and you'd be willing to give your life so that the other soldiers in your platoon (or whatever it's called) can make it back to their families.
    Yea that's generally the soldier/warrior mentally... the mentality of the ruling class, kings, elites, and politicians are usually the ones who deal with the politics.

    Archetypically the soldiers tend to be individuals who don't concern themselves with politics, but instead naively believe in their country, and usually feel abused when it lets them down etc. They tend not to focus on that but instead of getting the job done and their fellow comrades or whatever like you said.

    I really don't have much problem with those kinds of people, although that's not every soldier tbh, those are just the "good" ones so to speak. People have varied reasons for being in the military.

    My concern is with the forced sentiment of them being heroes. I think people have to earn that title by doing something heroic, not by simply joining and organization.

    It also seems paradoxical because always my vision of heroism involved individuality being stressed over social conformity. A typical hero is someone who goes against the grain, usually with an alturistic purpose, and tends to exhibit great feats of endurance/mastery/skill and overcomes surmountable challenges.

    In literature, song, dance, whatever culturally that's always been the hero archetype. It's never been the guy who was really loyal to his organization.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratsshadow
    Like the approval of a cowardly, conservative and gay sheeple means anything
    Have I ever told you how much I love you?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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