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Thread: Why do these two ILIs-INTps disagree?

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    Default Why do these two ILIs-INTps disagree?

    Two ILIs work for the same company. Both are business strategists. One is known for bold, flying-by-the-seat-of-your-pants strategy; the other for boring, carefully precalculated and time tested stratagems. Times are good at the company, but there are signs of increased product competition on the horizon. The board offers a new strategy using innovative products and experimental marketing. However there are problems with both funding and supply for this new strategy. Everyone is agreed that the company is unprepared for this venture, however there is also a certain concern that delay could be costly.

    The ILIs are at odds over how to proceed. The bold ILI recommends a full blown advertising campaign even though product supply is low. Great first impressions, the bold ILI argues, will create an influx of cash that will permit the purchase of supply enough to meet every demand. The cautious ILI is skeptical and suggests waiting until enough cash reserves are in place to create a large amount of supply right off, without risking any advertising dollars until right before the "big launch". The cautious ILI also suggests committing to investigation of competing product strategies, and goes on to argue that the company should be willing to shelve the product outright if the market seems too crowded and/or the product's prospects seem uncertain.

    Why do these ILIs disagree?

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    From a completely functional standpoint, its probably due to different experiences in the past. Confidence may have something to do with it also. There could be a lot of factors but those are the most likely, IMO.

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    Not answering your question, but I am going to have to side with the cautious ILI.

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    I am having a hard time understanding the prejudice here that people of the same type get along smashingly.


    Perhaps competition.

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    Are these two actual people, whom you've met and typed as being ILI?
    Or is this a hypothetical situation, a kind of clever riddle for us to solve?

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    By the way, as to my answer, the difference of opinion doesn't sound type-related. It's a matter of understanding what the best strategy for that company really is...Should it focus on sales-first, or limit sales based on inventories? I think most small businesses need to focus on sales because it's more likely that they won't sell enough than that they'll get too many orders. But there are cases where companies grew too quickly and hurt themselves because of failure to provide good service (e.g., People's Airlines comes to mind).

    If the two people really are the same type, then I think they should at least be able to communicate effectively about their differences of opinion and reasoning, UNLESS some non-Socionic factor prevents such communication.

    There are a lot of times when you have two people of one type and one is Democrat and the other is Republican. They won't necessarily change the other person's mind, but they can still carry on a good conversation about their difference of opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    There are a lot of times when you have two people of one type and one is Democrat and the other is Republican. They won't necessarily change the other person's mind, but they can still carry on a good conversation about their difference of opinion.
    That's one reason, the reason I had in mind. One trusting in positives (the cautious Republican) and the other trusting in the potential to turn negatives into positives (the bold Democrat).

    Now how do these two approach one another's disagreements?

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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    These people disagree because one assumes a good ad campaign will boost investments needed to acquire supply and the other thinks it could as well go the other way and would rather not risk throwing money away and so their ideas of what should be done conflict resulting in disagreement.
    Which one do you prefer and why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    There are a lot of times when you have two people of one type and one is Democrat and the other is Republican. They won't necessarily change the other person's mind, but they can still carry on a good conversation about their difference of opinion.
    That's one reason, the reason I had in mind. One trusting in positives (the cautious Republican) and the other trusting in the potential to turn negatives into positives (the bold Democrat).

    Now how do these two approach one another's disagreements?
    In my experience, people whom I would type as ILI would probably discuss openly in a sort of debate or discussion, perhaps similar to a Platonic dialogue. It might seem heated from the outside, but the two might be friends and actually be drawn closer by their enjoying discussing their differences of opinion.

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    Will a bold thinking ILI around here please step forward so that incognito's misconceptions can be cleared up?

    If there were no such thing as a "bold" ILI, it seems to me that that would mean that all ILIs would vote Republican.

    NiTe functional usages is explained very simply: there are myriad possible plans, but only so many resources available. Without resources, work stops, the plan doesn't go forwards. Te surveys the needed resources for each plan and asks how they can be obtained. Conservative ILIs prefer to stick with the resources they have, or at least not to interfere with the channel, where liberal ILIs are willing to hedge their bets on strategies to acquire resources by new and novel means.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 06-20-2011 at 02:59 PM.

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    One of them is an SLI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erk View Post
    One of them is an SLI.
    Which one?
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    If there were no such thing as a "bold" ILI, it seems to me that that would mean that all ILIs would vote Republican.
    You cause others to question your intelligence when you utter ridiculous blanket assertions such as these.

    Most people know nothing of politics or care not at all for politics. When such people vote, they generally affiliate with whatever political party is fashionable among their family/friends, which is frequently a result not of ideological divides among certain demographics but of which groups a particular political party has targeted for support in a particular region. At the end of the day, most people (ILI's included) don't actually party affiliate on the basis of core values and the extent to which parties jive with those values, and political parties are hardly neatly separable ideological entities anyway.

    That many ILI's vote republican is not in the least evidence for or against a particular character trait attributable to ILI's.
    Last edited by Timmy; 06-23-2011 at 09:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    If there were no such thing as a "bold" ILI, it seems to me that that would mean that all ILIs would vote Republican.
    You cause others to question your intelligence when you utter ridiculous blanket assertions such as these.
    why do you like attacking/insulting other people's intelligence, I've seen you do it twice already.

    Do you feel intimidated or something.

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    lol tcaud was speaking hypothetically too. He didn't say all ILI's vote republican but any individual who wasn't "bold" votes republican.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    lol tcaud was speaking hypothetically too. He didn't say all ILI's vote republican but any individual who wasn't "bold" votes republican.
    yeah it seems that Timmy is the only one who's dumb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    lol tcaud was speaking hypothetically too. He didn't say all ILI's vote republican but any individual who wasn't "bold" votes republican.
    That's right crisps, he didn't' say all ILI's vote republican, but nor have I challenged Tcaud on this point. Rather, I challenged him on the premise that all individuals who are not bold do not vote republican. If this were true, then instances where ILI's have not voted republican would serve as proof that some ILI's are bold, which is precisely what he set out to prove. Clearly some ILI's do not vote republican, and so if the premise about individuals who are not bold not voting republican were true, he'd have made his case. However this premise patently absurd and obviously false because, as I wrote earlier, "most people (ILI's included) don't actually party affiliate on the basis of core values(/attitudes) and the extent to which parties jive with those values/(attitudes), and political parties are hardly neatly separable ideological entities anyway." Thus, the existence of a non republican affiliated ILI's says nothing about whether or not ILI's are or are capable of being bold.

    why do you like attacking/insulting other people's intelligence, I've seen you do it twice already.
    I wasn't attacking anybody's intelligence in my former post. What I did was to point out to Tcaud that when a person (him in this instance) makes a silly "blanket assertion," others are likely to think that individual less than extremely intelligent. I assume Tcaud doesn't want to make a bad impression, and too few people are willing to tell him what's up. Occasionally I take this role upon myself, but I don't believe I have ever legitimately attacked his intelligence. I'd be less than entirely candid if not to admit that I found Tcaud's comment preposterous to the point of being offensive to my style of analyzing the world. When somebody says with an air of certainty something that strikes me as ludicrous, I feel compelled to correct them. If that makes you think me a bad person then so be it.

    When you say you've seen me "attack" others intelligence twice , is the second instance to which you refer the post I made the other day in which I mentioned that I'd briefly considered the possibility, among several other possibilities, that you fail to understand K0rpsey's intentions and humor because you are an "unusually unintelligent ILI?" If so, I hardly see how you can reasonably construe such a comment as an attack on your intelligence. In any event, it would appear you manage to do a fine job of lowering others' estimations of your intelligence without my help.
    Last edited by Timmy; 06-24-2011 at 01:04 AM.

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    Tcaudillg has some imaginative idea that liberals are superior life forms to conservatives. I have seen him make different comments about how conservatives are unintelligent and other degrading remarks in different threads. I think its absolutely ridiculous to bash another political party by supposing that one side is physically, genetically, or naturally superior. If anything criticize a political parties intentions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    In any event, it would appear you manage to do a fine job of lowering others' estimations of your intelligence without my help.
    and that's the third time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumer1an View Post
    Tcaudillg has some imaginative idea that liberals are superior life forms to conservatives. I have seen him make different comments about how conservatives are unintelligent and other degrading remarks in different threads. I think its absolutely ridiculous to bash another political party by supposing that one side is physically, genetically, or naturally superior. If anything criticize a political parties intentions.
    Sumerian how many scientific breakthroughs do you know of that were made by conservatives?

    My definition of "bold" in this sense is narrow... it means "willing to take an acknowledged risk." It does not mean "let's invade Iraq because the people will love us because all people yearn for freedom" arrogant-type boldness. The latter is not real boldness, only defiance of opposition in the name of supposed superior understanding and insight. Boldness in the former case means confidence in oneself, not in one's understanding of the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    In any event, it would appear you manage to do a fine job of lowering others' estimations of your intelligence without my help.
    and that's the third time.
    Yay. I was hoping you'd say that. I love it when people make my points for me. Anyway, last i checked expressing an honest observation is generally not considered tantamount to attack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post

    and that's the third time.
    Yay. I was hoping you'd say that. I love it when people make my points for me. Anyway, last i checked expressing an honest observation is generally not considered tantamount to attack.
    Don't be so hasty. Jarno might count all the way to ten, a boast you can't match. Still, I'm curious why he habitually makes these emotional appeals instead of producing a detailed argument like an NT would.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post

    Yay. I was hoping you'd say that. I love it when people make my points for me. Anyway, last i checked expressing an honest observation is generally not considered tantamount to attack.
    Don't be so hasty. Jarno might count all the way to ten, a boast you can't match. Still, I'm curious why he habitually makes these emotional appeals instead of producing a detailed argument like an NT would.
    hey it's the selftype attacker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post

    and that's the third time.
    Yay. I was hoping you'd say that. I love it when people make my points for me. Anyway, last i checked expressing an honest observation is generally not considered tantamount to attack.
    last time I checked it depends on the motivation you have for expressing the observation.

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    From my perspective there are some points that need to be focused on.

    First off ILI is irrational by nature, although it's canalized energy toward production is objectively focused, the basis of the prognition is necessarily irrational.

    With the information available I can imagine that the main problem in this case is the allocation of resources. I believe ILI looks for opportunities which it's perspective it can relate to the expectancy of abundance.

    The ILI which is highly accepting the risk, might have envisioned the process in which the marketing campaign could easily create this abundance; which from my perspective seems to be related to this ILI's unconscious attitude towards it's understanding of the super id capacity of suggestion, in this case implicit in the marketing campaign.

    So the bold ILI perceives abundance in the risky choice, believing the novel process involved in utilizing this new inventory has a tendency towards self evident success. Probably this involves it's experience with previous campaigns or other successful histories he is familiar with.

    It could be argued that the receptive pattern towards the "rapid and forceful attraction of attention" reflects a maturing of ILI seeking for duality. So in this case I would have to go for his choice, again only with this infos available.

    Of course it could be argued that the careful ILI did a much realistic/pessimistic prognosis characteristic of ILI which displays a "mature" attitude. Waiting for the right moment to act is very ILI like as well. I believe this careful ILI is skeptical about the capacity of the competency, and believes that a market should be easier to attack, so it's allocation of resources displays a non assertive attitude. It could be a useful choice to look for another place to market for but also this is riskier, than involving products that are already designed at least. Waiting for that moment to investigate would not be a wise choice from my perspective, although this investigation should be made anyways those results might be useful later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Erk View Post
    One of them is an SLI.
    Which one?
    The bold one who flys by the seat of his pants and says, "Let's just do it and clean it up later."
    ISTp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post

    Which one?
    The bold one who flys by the seat of his pants and says, "Let's just do it and clean it up later."
    thought so
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