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Thread: Question for ESTps and ISTjs: have you ever lived up to the aggressive descriptions?

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    Default Question for ESTps and ISTjs: have you ever lived up to the aggressive descriptions?

    I'm curious how many STs actually live up to Model A conceptions of Se "aggression". Or do you think that these definitions are exaggerated.. that maybe it should be more fun loving and that aggression could be in the abstract sense? What makes you territorial and "willful", even in the loose sense, that you would even want to identify with these types?

    I just thought it'd be interesting to bring up, because some of you kind of espouse something close to aggression, full of witty rape jokes and such, and often make little swipes at people to boost yourself at their expense around here. I don't have to be a genius to see that you're pretty hardcore and stuff. I'd just like to know more about what is it you actually do in real life? Do you really pull off any of this elsewhere and disregard or overcome the consequences of Se/Fi ignoring actions?

    Some questions to get you started:

    1)How many times have you been jailed for assault? Bonus points if you've ever put anyone in a hospital. Count yourself in an elite asshole if you threatened them again when they wanted you to pay the bills.

    2)How many people have you seduced with their boyfriends or husbands or wives or girlfriends just feet away? Bonus points if you got laid in a short timespan. Count yourself in the elite if it was on the side of the house and you can't exactly recall their name.

    3)Have you ever usurped any formal authorities, and got people to follow you instead? Bonus points if you did it by beating their ass.

    4)Have you fired a gun at anyone? Even if it was just for the lulz, and above their heads?

    Bonus question.. have you been so fucked up that everyone around you is even more fucked up and scared the shit out of you too? Have you been in the company of murderers or anyone who has literally executed someone on their knees - or hell, been executed for that matter? Have you cried to sleep because of this, and decided that you had your fill? Or are you just filling up the tank incrementally, and just not realize how much of a civil pussy you are in the big picture?

    Inquiring mind[s] want to know. Everybody's favorite SLE around here (mercutio?) was reading one of my chats earlier, and said I was "naive" about life. He didn't even know me. I'd like to know what makes that dude so hardcore. I think he has to be pretty scary in order to be less naive than I am (not that I really think I'm all that anyways. I self-type IEI, for crissakes).

    BTW, I don't expect many or any of you to actually answer. I'd prefer you not answer any of those questions in the affirmative, and be fun loving pussies. It ain't a bad thing at all.

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    Beta ST's in a nutshell from Socionics.us quadras:

    Types from the Beta Quadra are drawn to hierarchical structures that increase their personal power. They like to see convictions and beliefs materialized physically in the real world. They are often starkly blunt in their views and like "strong" humor.
    What you seem to be describing is an unhealthy manifestation of this.
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    First of all, thinking of Mercutio as scary is laughable, he is the last person you should worry about on this forum.
    As far as Beta ST's go, my mom is an SLE and she used to be quite aggressive, she was actually in jail the whole summer after I graduated from high school because she couldn't stop slapping her husband, lol. Now that she's in the second half of life she has calmed down quite a bit, it's very surprising how soft she has become. My sister is an LSI and she is not aggressive whatsoever, in fact if people are aggressive towards her she will break down in tears. I think it depends on the person really.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morcheeba View Post
    I think it depends on the person really.
    How about NFs? I can answer in the affirmative to some of those questions (they're all exaggerated snippets of my life), but I still hold on to the iei self-typing. I lack, what I think, is a more productive/action oriented (in the general sense) idea of Se. If it came down to simply aggression, assertiveness, etc.., I don't think I need a dual to make up for it. And I don't think anyone is scary btw.. I'm just being sarcastic.

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    I'm not aggressive. I'm pretty easy to get along with, and I'm not scary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stray View Post
    Inquiring mind[s] want to know. Everybody's favorite SLE around here (mercutio?) was reading one of my chats earlier, and said I was "naive" about life. He didn't even know me. I'd like to know what makes that dude so hardcore.
    It is a sentiment I've heard from a SLE before. He wasn't "hardcore" (held a respectable well-paying job, no criminal activities or the like) but he would generally evaluate other people critically. IEI's analysis is often done in a more positive light, and in comparison it will probably sound unduly trusting. SLEs also appear to have a general distrust in Ni, that is in themselves, but they can project this sentiment on others and laugh at all your 'theorizing' and lack of actual experience as a form of naivety.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsey View Post


    I can answer some of these affirmatively, bro. Can I hang with your crew?
    lol I don't have a crew. Any semblance of that ended with the aforementioned execution. Like every good gangster story, people drop like flies. I don't want to be a gangster. I just want to be honest.. It's easy to bullshit myself into thinking I'm a good person (because it's what I'd rather be now).

    All that aside, your answer encourages me. I don't feel like a crazy INp now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stray View Post
    All that aside, your answer encourages me. I don't feel like a crazy INp now.
    Suppose I'm crazy. What then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsey View Post
    Suppose I'm crazy. What then?
    In that case, at least I'm not alone. Misery loves company.

    Then again, maybe it's not that uncommon. On the theoretical wankery side of things, it's interesting that you type as INTP in MBTI and me INFP, but this pattern is mentioned more often in MBTI with Ni dominants (specifically inferior Se). Maybe we're actually INJs in that system.

    This is from Typelogic, but I've read more than this elsewhere:
    The INFJ under stress may fall prey to various forms of immediate gratification. Awareness of extraverted sensing is probably the source of the "SP wannabe" side of INFJs. Many yearn to live spontaneously; it's not uncommon for INFJ actors to take on an SP (often ESTP) role.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stray View Post
    Then again, maybe it's not that uncommon. On the theoretical wankery side of things, it's interesting that you type as INTP in MBTI and me INFP, but this pattern is mentioned more often in MBTI with Ni dominants (specifically inferior Se). Maybe we're actually INJs in that system.
    If I were MBTI INFJ I'd probably type that way sometimes, which has never happened (always INTP) and would feel resonance with the INFJ descriptions, which I don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsey View Post
    If I were MBTI INFJ I'd probably type that way sometimes, which has never happened (always INTP) and would feel resonance with the INFJ descriptions, which I don't.
    In your case, I mean you could be INTJ. The only comparison I make is dominant Ni/inferior Se. How that plays out with the rest of INTJ's functions specifically (Te/Fi), I wouldn't know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stray View Post
    In your case, I mean you could be INTJ. The only comparison I make is dominant Ni/inferior Se. How that plays out with INTJ specifically (Te/Fi), I wouldn't know.
    Except that isn't the case. Also: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...217#post778217

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsey View Post
    Fair enough. Just a thought. I'd still call myself an irrational type either way, but function wise, these two INJ types in MBTI kind of seem like irrationals themselves, in some respects. Their inferior Se isn't described as Se PoLR, but something they seem to value instead.

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    I know two SLEs that were (are? I'm not in contact with them anymore) quite aggressive when drunk: they both have punched other people in the face with resulting broken teeth, assault charges, etc.
    Although they both came from a rather disadvantaged / unstable background, which likely contributed to their attitude. I also know a plethora of SLEs that are social, friendly people and whose aggression mostly manifest itself in telling people "do this!" as a natural way of relating to the world. Even then, when someone just tells them "no, fuck, do it yourself!" they won't push further.
    I haven't been around any truly aggressive LSI. I mean, they have to handle EIEs...they need to be stable and grounded, not aggressive. They can become rather competitive and ruthless when playing sports, but generally within the bounds of acceptable ethical rules.
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    I think being assertive is more tied to Se than being aggressive is. Being physically aggressive is just one way that a natural assertiveness can manifest.
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    Normally SLE will be smart enough to try to convince you that "do this" is a good idea, if a direct approach doesnt work.
    Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stray View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsey View Post
    Fair enough. Just a thought. I'd still call myself an irrational type either way, but function wise, these two INJ types in MBTI kind of seem like irrationals themselves, in some respects. Their inferior Se isn't described as Se PoLR, but something they seem to value instead.
    The reason for this is the MBTI functions for introverts have been wrong since they were created. It has not yet been fixed. The correct functions are those used for socionics introverts.
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    think about the idea of every single person who is currently sitting behind bars right now for assault or murder being Se ego. silly, no? i'm not patronizing because i think you already know this, lol. but its like...how to reconcile shit? or am i wrong?

    no matter what you type yourself you'll have things about yourself that don't fit tidily into the stereotyped package. this is true for everyone. at least i really hope so...how people could view types as a neat collection of typical actions and still feel comfortable typing themselves kinda freaks me out and i dont know how its possible to do so without compromising parts of your self-concept or something. i think the best way to deal with the dissonance is to look at the ies separate from discrete behaviors. which for me means looking to the aspects and jung.

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    You'd think that someone with Se as their base function would be more likely to have those undesirable tendencies under control (if they wanted them to be, that is).
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    You'd think that someone with Se as their base function would be more likely to have those undesirable tendencies under control (if they wanted them to be, that is).
    This pretty much. SLEs are by rule assertive, direct and dominant, but not actually psychotic.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    The only people who can ever get me to fight out of rage are the people I'm really close to, because they are the only ones around whom I let my gaurd down enough for such a strong emotional reaction to occur. No one I'm not close with will ever be able to get me to throw a punch no matter how pissed they make me. If some one I don't know gets me to that point at most I'll just wrestle them to the ground and force them to submit. That way there is no long term damage, no bruises or marks as assault evidence, and they still leave imascuelated. Which is really the point of any fight anyway. Or I'll just take a deep breath, ignore my anger, and walk away.

    I'm paying for school, I can't afford the bill that comes with assault no matter how pissed I get.
    Last edited by JWC3; 06-16-2011 at 10:12 PM.
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    What JWC3 said, more or less.

    I think the premise that assertiveness to this extent goes hand in hand with Beta Se base (or creative) is wrong. I'm very close to two SLEs and know a few others (I think) pretty well, and they are not highly reactionary with people they don't know, although they may come across as forceful in terms of how direct they are ... at times. (LSIs even less so, but I'm going to focus on SLE here.)

    In fact, these people do what JWC described, they measure out the pros and cons of their actions in their minds along very practical lines, in terms of overall gain and loss. "Not worth it" is a common conclusion. Watch and wait, long-term strategies for dealing with undesired situations, not giving someone the satisfaction of getting a rise out of them ... I've seen these things in SLEs.

    Regarding the specific numbered questions stray asked, just no. I have not known a single Beta ST so idiotic as to get themselves into those kinds of criminal messes, so imo if there are some Beta STs out there who've done so, it's more to do with environment: socioeconomic status, family of origin, and the like.

    Since people love it so much when I refer to my boyfriend ... he is aware that he may seem a lot more aggressive than he actually is and can articulate that gap between how he's perceived and the actions he's likely to take. He has a knack for saying exactly what he is thinking--because he chooses to--and what others may be thinking but don't dare to say. He also doesn't take shit lying down and will go after his own interests assertively. But in these instances, he considers the effect on his own standing.

    He can point out that his younger brother (not Beta ST, not sure of type) is way more impulsive than himself and has gotten into serious trouble (brawls) where he will check himself and consider things cautiously--he is more likely to use strong yet reasonable words, instinctively pursue cover-own-ass approaches like befriending the friend/s of a potential "enemy," keep careful documentation of everything ever done and said by any adversary, take matters into the legal arena, and provoke someone in order to get them to show their own weakness and aggression. He takes great satisfaction in letting someone be their own undoing, but you won't see him out of control. And like JWC said, he's much more apt to openly quarrel with the people he loves and trusts than with people outside his circle.

    Some of that may go with E8, btw, which he seems to be > E7. Strong preoccupation with justice.
    Last edited by golden; 06-16-2011 at 11:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Most of you people overrate Se.
    No we don't. Augusta defined Se as naturally willful, dominant, volitional and direct. Therefore Se is naturally willful, dominant, volitional and direct. If she had defined Se as shy and eccentric it'd be shy and eccentric. If she had defined it as having a propensity to stand on one's head that's what it would be. That's how type fucking works.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    No we don't. Augusta defined Se as naturally willful, dominant, volitional and direct. Therefore Se is naturally willful, dominant, volitional and direct. If she had defined Se as shy and eccentric it'd be shy and eccentric. If she had defined it as having a propensity to stand on one's head that's what it would be. That's how type fucking works.
    But within the context of the OP, how does it follow from being willful, dominant, volitional, and direct that a person with those qualities will lose self-control to such an extent that they end up jailed and/or ruining their own reputations irrevocably? Ime, the opposite is more likely.

    An Se ego getting entangled in a lot of ass-showing, self-ruining BS scrapes, well, just haven't seen it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by werlkjlakjeraoiaeswroiaer View Post
    But within the context of the OP, how does it follow from being willful, dominant, volitional, and direct that a person with those qualities will lose self-control to such an extent that they end up jailed and/or ruining their own reputations irrevocably?
    There's nothing in there exclusionary of that -- in fact, the strong directness of Se-leading types combined with their fundamental weakness in understanding others' sensibilities (Fi-PoLR) leaves them vulnerable to social faux pas and excessive aggression. As I mentioned, it isn't the rule for SLEs to be psychotic, but unhealthy ones very well can be.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    To be fair, I've always had friends and family members who were always more productively "ST", and cool/grounded what-have-you, and they sound more like your bf or JWC. I was the sensitive/goofy kid, who flipped out a bit for awhile, and they would always make it a point to tell me I was cocky or to "count to 10" and relax.

    As for overrated Se, I already pointed this to Ashton last night, but I might as well post it here. It's MBTI related, so take it with a grain of salt if you want, but it doesn't seem to be a bad description on the whole spectrum of Se. And even here, it sounds like the ESps are controlled about it.

    http://greenlightwiki.com/lenore-exe...rted_Sensation


    As a dominant function, Se leads ESPs to live a life of fun and pleasure, enjoying the now. From an unmitigated Se perspective, what there is to do in life is get attention and make a visible impact in the world: create a spectacle, be popular and well-liked, enjoy wine, women, and song, go along with the crowd (that's where the action is), dress fashionably, see and be seen, eat at the hippest restaurants, and generally "have a good time". If it looks good, if it feels good, what else matters? They cultivate a public image to fit what is attractive according to the currently prevailing standards of their culture (see Orientation by Pop Culture), and they merrily shift along with shifting fashions. They learn what "plays", and they play to that. They don't worry about internal contradictions, or continuity of present behavior with past traditions, or long-term consequences. They do what gets an immediate effect right now, of a sort that requires no explanation. What you do from an Se perspective is plain to everyone. From an Se perspective, anything complicated is mere speculation. What's true is what works now. Whether it works tomorrow is a matter for tomorrow. They negotiate for every physical pleasure they can possibly get, and they negotiate hard. They develop a gut sense for reading what a person really wants, and what a person really fears, and they work that for all it's worth.

    As a secondary function, Se leads ISPs to make "what plays" into the object of their thoughts. The world of appearance and spectacle provides them with a subject matter to analyze and comment on from an outside perspective, especially to point out (from the sidelines) how people are attempting to be cool but failing, ha ha. ISPs often see themselves as the true leading edge of cool, hipper than hip, into what becomes popular before it becomes popular. As a path of further development and expansion of consciousness, Se shows ISPs how to "go with the flow", to "accept" what is, to "be present" to what is happening right now, recognizing that they can't control it. Incorporating an Se way of orienting themselves, they find a way for their dominant moral perspective to bear fruit in any circumstances they find themselves in. Their dominant function has led them to cultivate a way of being, or state of grace, that feels possible only in a private space, where public perception is not a factor (e.g. Michael Jackson's Never-Never Land Ranch). Se tunes them in to public perception in a way that enables them to fully be themselves wherever they are, freely giving their gifts to all comers, and unconditionally accepting the results.

    As a tertiary function, Se often leads ENJs to maintain a certain show of force. If reason won't persuade you to play along sensibly, maybe that rifle on my wall will. I won't say anything explicit, but you know as well as I do that we don't want to go there. The unstated threat need not be violent, of course. It might just be to fire you. There's always something in the ENJ's bargaining position held in reserve, which would really pinch if he used it, and you know at a gut level that he wouldn't hesitate to use it if you got out of line. Some ENJs depend heavily on a Douglas Macarthur-like sense of theatrics and spectacle to keep the masses bedazzled while they do what they think needs doing. Sometimes tertiary Se leads ENJs to practice a peculiar philosophy of "honesty": the sort where if you feel like punching someone in the face, you view it as "dishonest" to refrain from doing so--a philosophy of giving vent to whatever your animal nature comes up with at the moment, and having the "courage" to deal with the consequences without anticipating them. Mild forms include yelling louder than someone to win an argument, or demonstrating by your physical demeanor that you are viscerally more committed to something than an opponent. From the Se perspective, "in a conflict, the more committed party always wins." (An Ni perspective would lead you to search for a third way, one that dissolves the conflict rather than winning it.)

    As an inferior function, Se often leads INJs in either (or both) of two directions: to shun everything of a bodily nature as corrupt and animal (e.g. Immanuel Kant), or to crave "letting loose" and table-dancing or delivering some serious violence. In the grip of the inferior function, they try to make others feel weak by displays of physical power (or trying to get others to compare themselves with physically powerful people), but usually end up only making themselves feel like helpless bugs. "See how POWERFUL I am? See my ANIMAL MAGNETISM?" Some get into guns or karate, taking an off-kilter delight in fantasies of getting into a confrontation with someone and surprising the hell out of them with the damage they can do (see Taxi Driver). Some idolize jazz musicians as people who are completely in touch with their animal selves, able to "let go". Some join academic cliques where the object is to make other people feel unpopular by snubbing them for not being up on the latest intellectual fashions--a sort of faux popularity contest, where the wider social standards are reversed and the most unintelligible gibberish gets the most attention. Some use esoteric jazz or modern art to make a twisted marriage of Ni and Se: "It might sound like an incoherent mish-mash of notes to you, but that only shows that you lack the finer discernment of the really cool people." A different way, perhaps the genuine reunification with the inferior function, is to find an unconditional pleasure in "the now" and a peaceful, live-and-let-live philosophy--enjoying each moment, "being present" no matter what comes.

    Less dramatic, more recreational (and more common) forms of tertiary and inferior Se include athletics and engaging in physically dangerous activities, like auto racing and bungee jumping--providing the participants visceral proof that they have power over the physical world. Or simply enjoying these activities in a pure way, for the thrills they offer, no differently than an SP.

    Naturally, you can see plenty of dominant-style Se in ISPs, secondary-style in ESPs, tertiary-style in INJs, even inferior-style in (criminal) ESPs, etc

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    Stray, MBTI functions are for MBTI. Not Socionics. MBTI Se is mostly associated to Alpha SF values.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Stray, MBTI functions are for MBTI. Not Socionics. MBTI Se is mostly associated to Alpha SF values.
    Oh fuck off. I said take it with a grain of salt. Comprende. I might as well say shove the saltshaker up your ass now.


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    lulz. Some people need reminding.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    lulz. Some people need reminding.
    I don't need to be reminded of anything. Not here at least.

    You're not reading anyways. The above descriptions of even the "regulated" Se in ESPs still has a lot of the impact oriented nature of Socionics Se rather than Socionics Si.

    If you think anyone who enjoys a good meal or night out though is Alpha Si, then seriously fuck off.

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    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.
    But colors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by werlkjlakjeraoiaeswroiaer View Post
    I think the premise that assertiveness to this extent goes hand in hand with Beta Se base (or creative) is wrong. I'm very close to two SLEs and know a few others (I think) pretty well, and they are not highly reactionary with people they don't know, although they may come across as forceful in terms of how direct they are ... at times.

    In fact, these people do what JWC described, they measure out the pros and cons of their actions in their minds along very practical lines, in terms of overall gain and loss. "Not worth it" is a common conclusion. Watch and wait, long-term strategies for dealing with undesired situations, not giving someone the satisfaction of getting a rise out of them ... I've seen these things in SLEs.

    Regarding the specific numbered questions stray asked, just no. I have not known a single Beta ST so idiotic as to get themselves into those kinds of criminal messes, so imo if there are some Beta STs out there who've done so, it's more to do with environment: socioeconomic status, family of origin, and the like.

    Since people love it so much when I refer to my boyfriend ... he is aware that he may seem a lot more aggressive than he actually is and can articulate that gap between how he's perceived and the actions he's likely to take. He has a knack for saying exactly what he is thinking--because he chooses to--and what others may be thinking but don't dare to say. He also doesn't take shit lying down and will go after his own interests assertively. But in these instances, he considers the effect on his own standing.

    He can point out that his younger brother (not Beta ST, not sure of type) is way more impulsive than himself and has gotten into serious trouble (brawls) where he will check himself and consider things cautiously--he is more likely to use strong yet reasonable words, instinctively pursue cover-own-ass approaches like befriending the friend/s of a potential "enemy," keep careful documentation of everything ever done and said by any adversary, take matters into the legal arena, and provoke someone in order to get them to show their own weakness and aggression. He takes great satisfaction in letting someone be their own undoing, but you won't see him out of control. And like JWC said, he's much more apt to openly quarrel with the people he loves and trusts than with people outside his circle.

    Some of that may go with E8, btw, which he seems to be > E7. Strong preoccupation with justice.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    what is essential is invisible to the eye fox's Avatar
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    blah, nvm.
    Last edited by fox; 06-19-2011 at 06:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    My bf calls me naive about life ALL the time, lol. He says I haven't seen how the world really is. I tell him he takes life way too seriously.
    I've been called naive by three different SLEs. In the nicest possible ways. Also "innocent" and "pure". lol
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    My bf calls me naive about life ALL the time, lol. He says I haven't seen how the world really is. I tell him he takes life way too seriously.
    I've been called naive by three different SLEs. In the nicest possible ways. Also "innocent" and "pure". lol
    Not me. I've been called evil, overbearing, and a bad influence.. and sometimes when I do good, like this time I drove this a girl who tried to commit suicide to get her stomach pumped, I dropped her friend off at some girl's school.. and I was met with hisses and cross signs. That's what I get for saving someone's life.

    Wait.. I'm exagerrating again. I can be anything..good or bad. Just not naive.

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    If I have a point there, I guess.. umm.. well, it's just retarded being called naive or innocent if the person doesn't know me. I made this thread to see if STs could answer in the affirmative.. to see if they've really stuck their hands in the metaphorical shit of life. Some can, some can't. I can. If you can't, you'd blow as a dual.. you'd be the real naive one. I'd kind of feel like Joan Jett in this clip.


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    Quote Originally Posted by stray View Post
    If I have a point there, I guess.. umm.. well, it's just retarded being called naive or innocent if the person doesn't know me. I made this thread to see if STs could answer in the affirmative.. to see if they've really stuck their hands in the metaphorical shit of life. Some can, some can't. I can. If you can't, you'd blow as a dual.. you'd be the real naive one. I'd kind of feel like Joan Jett in this clip.
    Fucking hardcore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsey View Post
    Fucking hardcore.
    lol.. i can't tell if this one of those moments when the ILI takes a dump on my enthusiasm.

    y'know what i'm saying, man. you've shared enough of your own life/friendships with me for me to see that you're not naive either. i can almost smell the shit smears on your hand. and i bet you'd laugh too if you got condescended upon by a SEE with some "on top of ole smokey" act. both of our types will perk up at the sight of real adventure (be it positive or negative), but we're going to get bored otherwise (or in your case, take a dump).

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