Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 82

Thread: ENTps and empathy

  1. #1
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default ENTps and empathy

    Would you consider ILE to be empathetic? In what way are they or not?

  2. #2
    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    4,481
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I sure hope so :3
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

  3. #3
    Haitus Neverend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    32
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'm empathetic, but not in your typical F way. Others emotions get to me, like someone crying tears of happiness, but if I sense the presence is too close, like someone I know and their problems being expressed to me, I kind of back off and treat the situation rationally, and as not being that talkative I'm lucky I don't offend anyone . So it comes natural when it feels natural and not forced upon me, iow not something I actually have to deal with but can just experience from the sidelines. Also emotions feel stronger when they're flowing sort of like a peak of a performance. Ie. today someone came at me crying about something, and I was caught by surprise, I just have to look at my own experiences and tell them what they'd expect, and sometimes I feel sad for them after the fact, unless I think it's kind of an old recurrent situation, they should know better than to get worked up about it.

  4. #4
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ok, let me ask this question another way.

    If Hitler is ILE (and please don't dispute his type, it's not my objective in this thread), then what about him is considered empathetic, if he is a normal ILE?

  5. #5
    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    everywhere at once
    Posts
    8,449
    Mentioned
    203 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Most of the healthy ENTps I've known are easily capable of empathy, and I've seen it from them several times throughout my time of knowing them. The fact that this question even has to be asked is frustrating as hell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    If Hitler is ILE (and please don't dispute his type, it's not my objective in this thread), then what about him is considered empathetic, if he is a normal ILE?
    This would be a relevant question if he was actually ENTp.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

  6. #6
    Le roi internet Bluenoir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Zeta Reticuli
    TIM
    Ne-LII
    Posts
    392
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    A person who can't feel empathy is usaually considered to be very sick if not psychopathic. Type has nothing to do whith this basic human emotion.
    The mode of goodness conditions one to happiness, passion conditions him to the fruits of action, and ignorance to madness.

    Chapter 14, Verse 9.
    The Bhagavad Gita

  7. #7
    Le roi internet Bluenoir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Zeta Reticuli
    TIM
    Ne-LII
    Posts
    392
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Neotropic, you have Fi role and Galen, you have Fi creative; what are you guys thinking?
    It means I struggle with understanding social distance, nothing to do with this "empathy" you keep eluding to.
    The mode of goodness conditions one to happiness, passion conditions him to the fruits of action, and ignorance to madness.

    Chapter 14, Verse 9.
    The Bhagavad Gita

  8. #8
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Neotropic View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Neotropic, you have Fi role and Galen, you have Fi creative; what are you guys thinking?
    It means I struggle with understanding social distance, nothing to do with this "empathy" you keep eluding to.
    Does that mean you don't know who to initiate with socially? Like ask to be your friend, etc?

    Social distance, where people and relations fall in, for me is all based on tests and interaction; it's easy for me to see the hierarchy or the order of where people fall in in proximity to me, and each other.

  9. #9
    Le roi internet Bluenoir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Zeta Reticuli
    TIM
    Ne-LII
    Posts
    392
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neotropic View Post

    It means I struggle with understanding social distance, nothing to do with this "empathy" you keep eluding to.
    Does that mean you don't know who to initiate with socially? Like ask to be your friend, etc?
    Yes, I do have trouble initiating social communication. That's not to say I can't feel empathy for someone who is suffering (same goes with Fi polr). I will grant strong Fi may be able to better show it, but to not feel empathy is by definition a psychopath.
    The mode of goodness conditions one to happiness, passion conditions him to the fruits of action, and ignorance to madness.

    Chapter 14, Verse 9.
    The Bhagavad Gita

  10. #10
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Neotropic View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post

    Does that mean you don't know who to initiate with socially? Like ask to be your friend, etc?
    Yes, I do have trouble initiating social communication. That's not to say I can't feel empathy for someone who is suffering (same goes with Fi polr). I will grant strong Fi may be able to better show it, but to not feel empathy is by definition a psychopath.
    How about if I explained it like this:

    "With sympathy you feel for the person; you’re sorry for them or pity them, but you don’t specifically understand what they’re feeling. It takes imagination, work, or possibly a similar experience to get to empathy. Empathy can best be described as feeling with the person. Notice the distinction between for and with. To an extent you are placing yourself in that person’s place, have a good sense of what they feel, and understand their feelings to a degree. Instead of feeling sorry for, you’re sorry with and have clothed yourself in the mantle of someone else’s emotional reactions. Sympathy, in my world, is when you tell someone you have hardly any money and they say, 'Oh, that's too bad' and don't do anything else. Empathy, again where I come from, is when someone else puts themselves in your shoes, and not only shows sympathy, but also emphatically offers to give you some money. I think that sympathy is more just that you feel bad for someone or their predicament, where empathy is where you actually feel what they feel. "

    How can Hitler, being ILE (in my book) express empathy with the above definition?

  11. #11

  12. #12
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default


  13. #13
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Hitler is ENTp

    Alpha because he had an idea of a society which was unrealistic and extraverted because he could control, talk others, manipulate a machine and drive the other quadras to back him up in the drive for a perfect society (or a perfect idea). He took ideas of the "aryan" race, mixed it with a bunch of BS and sold it to Beta, for military and idea backing...everyone else were soldiers. Took ideas and know how they fit into a system, got Beta to support that system with POWER.

    I honestly haven't known a single Alpha extravert who hasn't been judgmental about their "idea" of the perfect society and how they would love to get "rid" of people to formulate that society.

  14. #14
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default


  15. #15
    Korpsy Knievel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,234
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Hitler is ENTp

    Alpha because he had an idea of a society which was unrealistic and extraverted because he could control, talk others, manipulate a machine and drive the other quadras to back him up in the drive for a perfect society (or a perfect idea). He took ideas of the "aryan" race, mixed it with a bunch of BS and sold it to Beta, for military and idea backing...everyone else were soldiers. Took ideas and know how they fit into a system, got Beta to support that system with POWER.
    Empathy and sympathy are noble traits, so we'd better look to the positive side to find these characteristics. What qualities of Hitler's do you like or admire the most?

  16. #16
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Hitler is ENTp

    Alpha because he had an idea of a society which was unrealistic and extraverted because he could control, talk others, manipulate a machine and drive the other quadras to back him up in the drive for a perfect society (or a perfect idea). He took ideas of the "aryan" race, mixed it with a bunch of BS and sold it to Beta, for military and idea backing...everyone else were soldiers. Took ideas and know how they fit into a system, got Beta to support that system with POWER.
    Empathy and sympathy are noble traits, so we'd better look to the positive side to find these characteristics. What qualities of Hitler's do you like or admire the most?
    Like:
    He was brave and ignoring of other's opinions about what he should do and why and just does it.
    He tries ideas that have never been thought of. These ideas, however, kill people.
    A brilliant orator, but they were all used to amass and fire an engine of death.
    He was fond of kids, but he was only fond of little white kids.
    He liked dogs and music (Wagner).


    Dislike:
    That he had crazy ideas; like suggesting to his mom's doctor to poison her with all sorts of drugs in a private search to find a cure for her cancer. He has no consideration for the fact that these drugs were poison.

    But, those are all matters of FACT.

  17. #17
    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    emotionz
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    1,116
    Mentioned
    100 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    This is ridiculous.

    Certainly everyone processes the world differently, and perhaps an ILE's empathy might be different from an EII's, but capacity for both sympathy and empathy (as distinct but related states) is not directed related to type.

    As for Hitler...why the fascination?

    PS--How do we even know that he wasn't empathetic? (he killed people, yes yes, but it's possible to compartmentalize one's humane emotions when dealing with those that one feels to be less than human...he was certainly crazy, and awful, but was he unempathetic in his personal life? how do you judge when someone has so many other problems?)

  18. #18
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    This is ridiculous.

    Certainly everyone processes the world differently, and perhaps an ILE's empathy might be different from an EII's, but capacity for both sympathy and empathy (as distinct but related states) is not directed related to type.

    As for Hitler...why the fascination?

    PS--How do we even know that he wasn't empathetic? (he killed people, yes yes, but it's possible to compartmentalize one's humane emotions when dealing with those that one feels to be less than human...he was certainly crazy, and awful, but was he unempathetic in his personal life? how do you judge when someone has so many other problems?)
    Good point. He may have been:

    Fi PoLR

    He felt some people were less than human and not corresponded with his requirements so he victimized them. "...irreconcilable in his requirements, he does not pardon those that do not correspond. He is easily emotionally carried away by something. Is sometimes capable of victimizing others."

  19. #19
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

     

  20. #20
    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    everywhere at once
    Posts
    8,449
    Mentioned
    203 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    How can Hitler, being ILE (in my book) express empathy with the above definition?
    You tell us, it's your book.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

  21. #21
    ഗന᎕ᒹ ±ᗉᚔXᙂഗ woofwoofl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Southern Arizona
    TIM
    x s x p s p s x
    Posts
    1,907
    Mentioned
    227 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I've been letting ILE for Hitler rattle around in my brain some, and it'll still have to do some rattling...

    I've been thinking about Fred Durst again - he could certainly command the hell out of a crowd, even people who dislike the guy (there are many - I'm not one, by the way) admit that much...



    At 1:32 it happens - his intention is to fire up the crowd in an manner, and it apparently works, but the forcefulness and grandeur comes from the setting, not the speaker himself... "release all of that negative energy" strikes me as / valuing, as do his bodily movements and stage presence (alternating between lumbering around like a gorilla and flapping his arms like a bird, not a lot of attention to forcefulness; ESE Alex Lifeson and ILE Geddy Lee from Alpha quadra band Rush have a maneuver where they stand side to side and start bending back and forth in unison which starts at 2:53 and really gets moving at 3:05 - definitely over , and valuing from the looks of Alex Lifeson at least)...



    Nice job breaking it, hero

    At 1:48, what looks a lot like -Polr happens from Fred Durst, and... ughhh... just, ughhh...

    All of that, combined with the incredibly -oriented liner notes I've read in Limp Bizkit albums in the "Fred Durst" section, lead me to declare with almost certainty that Fred Durst is an ILE - here's the deal sealer:



    And this ILE was capable of getting people so fired up that they started deadly riots - and at Woodstock '99, no less!

  22. #22
    Korpsy Knievel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,234
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    How can Hitler, being ILE (in my book) express empathy with the above definition?
    You tell us, it's your book.

  23. #23
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,819
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Nobody but you thinks Hitler is ILE. Don't ask questions that assume your typings are accurate and you might get responses.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  24. #24
    The Looks stanprollyright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    In your pants
    TIM
    IEE-Ne cp 6w7 sx/so
    Posts
    555
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Everybody feels empathy.

    Even if Hitler was unable to do so, it is not type related.

    Logical types may have a poorer understanding of empathy, a poorer ability to effectively act on it, and maybe even feel it less often because of their poor understanding of emotions and emotional cues. However, they are still perfectly capable of feeling empathy. To say they aren't is preposterous.
    Stan is not my real name.

  25. #25
    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,808
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    Everybody feels empathy.

    Even if Hitler was unable to do so, it is not type related.

    Logical types may have a poorer understanding of empathy, a poorer ability to effectively act on it, and maybe even feel it less often because of their poor understanding of emotions and emotional cues. However, they are still perfectly capable of feeling empathy. To say they aren't is preposterous.
    I think a better way to put this is that evey one has a hippocampus and amygalda. Or whatever part of the brain is relevant. And if they don't they most likely have bigger problems than empathy.
    Easy Day

  26. #26
    Blaze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    5,725
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i would not say ILE is incapable of empathy but i would say that ethical types are much more capable than ILE is.

    how other people feel is not the first thing that ILE thinks of. ILE empathy is greater under the following conditions: if the other person expresses a lot of emotional content that can be received by ILE 6th function, if ILE has been in a similar situation themselves, or if someone close to an ILE has been in similar situation. ILE has to have either emotional activation or experience to feel a higher degree of empathy...if either of these are lacking, it takes more effort for ILE to put themselves in another's shoes, since their mind is on ideas more than people.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

  27. #27
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    7,966
    Mentioned
    568 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    I never think capable or incapable of empathy matters too much to ILE. I think sociotype doesn't deal with the ability to be empathetic or not. You will see variation of the levels of empathy within a sociotype. However how a ILE communicate and deal with others can often lack empathy. This doesn't deal with whether they feel it or not, but rather they simply choose a different route to deal with such a situation.

    I can be empathetic, but ultimately it's not a method I choose to interact with others, I rather interact with other using ideas, reasoning, a massive beat down, emotional and physical abuse, strangulation. Ultimately, I find these to be better means of dealing with others and more comfortable. Actually what am I saying, I don't actually want to interact with others!!!



    all, don't take it too seriously.

  28. #28
    The Looks stanprollyright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    In your pants
    TIM
    IEE-Ne cp 6w7 sx/so
    Posts
    555
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    I think a better way to put this is that evey one has a hippocampus and amygalda. Or whatever part of the brain is relevant. And if they don't they most likely have bigger problems than empathy.
    Well, if you want to get technical, sociopathy et. al. usually stem from chemical imbalances and psychological stuff rather than brain damage/deformity...
    Stan is not my real name.

  29. #29
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    Well, if you want to get technical, sociopathy et. al. usually stem from chemical imbalances and psychological stuff rather than brain damage/deformity...
    An article on damaged brains and psychopathy:

    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2..._fact_seabrook

  30. #30
    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,808
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    I think a better way to put this is that evey one has a hippocampus and amygalda. Or whatever part of the brain is relevant. And if they don't they most likely have bigger problems than empathy.
    Well, if you want to get technical, sociopathy et. al. usually stem from chemical imbalances and psychological stuff rather than brain damage/deformity...
    Either way, decidedly not type related.
    Easy Day

  31. #31
    The Looks stanprollyright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    In your pants
    TIM
    IEE-Ne cp 6w7 sx/so
    Posts
    555
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    ESE Alex Lifeson and ILE Geddy Lee from Alpha quadra band Rush have a maneuver where they stand side to side and start bending back and forth in unison which starts at 2:53 and really gets moving at 3:05 - definitely over , and valuing from the looks of Alex Lifeson at least)...
    Ooh! Rush is my favorite band! I wouldn't call them an alpha band, because I'm pretty sure Neil Peart, who writes most of their lyrics, is ILI. I would say SEI for Lifeson, I could see ILE for Lee (I'll have to think about it).

    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    Nice job breaking it, hero
    It made shoes for orphans...

    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    Either way, decidedly not type related.
    Like I keep saying, we need an NTR emoticon.
    Stan is not my real name.

  32. #32
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    The Rift
    TIM
    C-EIE, 7-4-8 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,632
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    They can be, but in a pretty weird way. xLEs have trouble understanding implicit sensibilities (which means they can easily steamroll over them unintentionally), but are easily able to understand expressed emotions. xLIs by contrast have serious trouble with expression; they just think it's pointless histrionics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Ok, let me ask this question another way.

    If Hitler is ILE (and please don't dispute his type, it's not my objective in this thread), then what about him is considered empathetic, if he is a normal ILE?
    Fe. And no, he wasn't ILE, that's dumb.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

  33. #33
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,321
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post

    LOL
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  34. #34
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,321
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    i would not say ILE is incapable of empathy but i would say that ethical types are much more capable than ILE is.

    how other people feel is not the first thing that ILE thinks of. ILE empathy is greater under the following conditions: if the other person expresses a lot of emotional content that can be received by ILE 6th function, if ILE has been in a similar situation themselves, or if someone close to an ILE has been in similar situation. ILE has to have either emotional activation or experience to feel a higher degree of empathy...if either of these are lacking, it takes more effort for ILE to put themselves in another's shoes, since their mind is on ideas more than people.
    perfect. yes.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  35. #35
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    The Rift
    TIM
    C-EIE, 7-4-8 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,632
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Oh, and lulz @ Hitler lacking empathy. Hitler was actually widely acknowledged by people who met him personally for his ability to deeply connect with them, or appear to.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

  36. #36
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    They can be, but in a pretty weird way. xLEs have trouble understanding implicit sensibilities (which means they can easily steamroll over them unintentionally), but are easily able to understand expressed emotions. xLIs by contrast have serious trouble with expression; they just think it's pointless histrionics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Ok, let me ask this question another way.

    If Hitler is ILE (and please don't dispute his type, it's not my objective in this thread), then what about him is considered empathetic, if he is a normal ILE?
    Fe. And no, he wasn't ILE, that's dumb.
    You are so limited in the scope of ideas and possibilities that you can perceive, it makes me wonder if you are EIE; Hitler, being ILE in my book, would have Fe activation and making him very animate and expressive speaker, sometimes much more so than Fe types because of how the activation/suggestive function works.

  37. #37
    Korpsy Knievel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,234
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    You are so limited in the scope of ideas and possibilities that you can perceive, it makes me wonder if you are EIE; Hitler, being ILE in my book, would have Fe activation and making him very animate and expressive speaker, sometimes much more so than Fe types because of how the activation/suggestive function works.
    How do those functions work in your book?

  38. #38
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    You are so limited in the scope of ideas and possibilities that you can perceive, it makes me wonder if you are EIE; Hitler, being ILE in my book, would have Fe activation and making him very animate and expressive speaker, sometimes much more so than Fe types because of how the activation/suggestive function works.
    How do those functions work in your book?
    Every seen an SLI sit around and commend people to do things? That's how they work. They suggest to their Extraverted dual to do the things in the way that they come up with. The best example of this is a quote Minde posted in Socionics quote thread. It makes sense because in submersing themselves in the world of the impressions of Sensory information, SLI slow down and take time to inwards and don't or may not have the time or the drive to do external activities, which their dual, IEE, do because the extravert is used to the level of energy output.

  39. #39
    Creepy-male

    Default

    This topic suffers from retardation.

    And no I'm not on the hate maritsa bandwagon... it just is. Hitler didn't lack empathy, hitler was not a psychopath, just a human being with maybe some hateful ideas.

    Really I feel the main driver for the nazi thing was that Hitler had an insane amount of power and influence. I think racism, genocide, or murder isn't really all that shocking if your looking at the whole of humanity. Its possible if you gave most people that amount of power/influence you'd see problems equal in magnitude to the supposed "evil" Hitler displayed.

    The fact is you don't see it because people are limited in their influence and power. Someone may desire to kill someone else, but they know at a certain unconscious level, its beaten into them that they can't because a cop will stop them etc... so they learn this is the way things are and eventually they become comfortable with the idea of restraint of their passions. That's entirely different from not killing a person out of empathy for them as a human.

    Also ILEs lacking empathy seems to be squeezing a little too much out of the Fi-PoLR if you know what I mean

  40. #40
    Samuel the Gabriel H. MisterNi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA.
    TIM
    C-IEE Ne (862)
    Posts
    1,131
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    This thread is in serious need of some sensibility. Good thing I'm here.

    So here's the Merriam Webster's definition of empathy:

    1: the imaginative projection of a subjective state into an object so that the object appears to be infused with it
    2: the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for this
    Definition 1 is a wtf definition so lets ignore that. Definition 2 is what we're after and by that definition, I am most definitely capable of empathy and have been so in the past.
    Last edited by MisterNi; 06-18-2011 at 05:13 AM.

    IEE Ne Creative Type

    Some and role lovin too. () I too...
    !!!!!!

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •