Negative thoughts?

[Rocky]

Are sort of self-depricating thoughts more common in certain types? It seems Introverted Rationals may be susceptable to it; "Judging themselves". Personally, I rarely criticize myself. I may be unsure of something, but not really self-judging (but I can see how IxxJ types can understand themselves better because of it). Also, is it possible that this Introverted Rationalistic view point leads to a sort of self-centered thinking?

[MysticSonic]

It would seem some types tend towards self-deprication as a means to avoid taking responsibility for a particular act; by demeaning their skill in a certain field they have, in effect, rid themselves of the responsibility associated with managing the particular job; such is the reason that people who follow such a mindset also depreciate the value of their ability to change their current lackings into talents, as recognizes such potential would in turn force them to take responsibility, if a moral imperative for such recognitiion exists, for their lack of ability and any failings in that particular area. This mindset would probably develop out of a mind whom possesses a great aversion towards external deprication, and thus I think the issue is whether or not such a mindset is dependent upon type.

Eh, I appologize for my tendency to EXPAND the issue rather than contract it. Empirical experience woudl suggest that introverted judging types are more prone to it than other types.

And, I don't think it leads towards self-centered thinking, but rather a self-absorbed orientation.

[Rocky]

It would seem some types tend towards self-deprication as a means to avoid taking responsibility for a particular act; by demeaning their skill in a certain field they have, in effect, rid themselves of the responsibility associated with managing the particular job; such is the reason that people who follow such a mindset also depreciate the value of their ability to change their current lackings into talents, as recognizes such potential would in turn force them to take responsibility, if a moral imperative for such recognitiion exists, for their lack of ability and any failings in that particular area.

Longest sentence ***ever***.


Anyway, as for the rest of the post, yeah, that's the kind of answer I was looking for. And I can see what you mean by more self-absored.

[Idio]

In response to Rocky's original post:

(Personally), I do not see such as "negative thoughts", but more constructive criticism. There is no fooling yourself over how well you can do something. How well "you did" and how well "you should" are not always the same. In other words, I criticize myself a lot - hold myself very accountible- but I have no negativity about it- I am not depressed, nor "feel bad" about it. There is room for improvement always.

Self-criticism is useful for motivation, or to highlight something. However, unless someone enjoys guilt tripping I see no reason to become of a negative mood simply because you are evaluating yourself.

Self Centered thinking... is that not part of being an I? Perhaps it is more direct, more apparent, with I--Js.

[Scrummy]

It would seem some types tend towards self-deprication as a means to avoid taking responsibility for a particular act; by demeaning their skill in a certain field they have, in effect, rid themselves of the responsibility associated with managing the particular job; such is the reason that people who follow such a mindset also depreciate the value of their ability to change their current lackings into talents, as recognizes such potential would in turn force them to take responsibility, if a moral imperative for such recognitiion exists, for their lack of ability and any failings in that particular area.

Longest sentence ***ever***.

There were technically three independent clauses in there. See use of semicolon here. Though, that last clause was a doozie.

[schrödinger's cat]

All this made me think that MysticSonic has probably said something interesting, but I discovered that I had to translate him into schrödingerese in order to understand him. THAT is probably what weak Ti is like: being unable to understand MysticSonic without going "hng?" and taking notes.

Some types seem to think negatively about themselves because it means they don't have to take responsibility for what they've done. "I'm such an idiot, what else would you expect of me?" If you simply declare you totally suck at doing something, you've effectively excused yourself from doing a proper job. You've got rid of the responsibility.

Of course you could try to do your best, and you could try to learn things and develop your skills. But you pretend it's not important, or that it would be useless anyway. Why? Because it would mean having to take on responsibility.

People who think that way probably do it because they hate being criticized or put down by others. Because of that, I think that the question is whether or not that way of thinking is dependent upon type.

Eh, sorry that I've made the question more complicated instead of making it simpler. From what I've seen and heard of, I'd say that introverted judging types are more likely than other types to think like I said.

And, I don't think it leads towards self-centered thinking, but rather towards having goals that are only about yourself.

Agree.

[schrödinger's cat]

This mindset would probably develop out of a mind whom possesses a great aversion towards external deprication.

Which ISTps don't have... or do they? From what I've seen and heard, they're likely to have a very clear idea about what they can and can't do. Their most important critic is their own mind. If anyone else criticises them, they either see the accuracy of the statement and agree - or they realize that their critic just wants to put them down, and that automatically qualifies him as a total jerk who doesn't have to be taken seriously. So, either way, no skin off their nose.

Thinking negative thoughts about yourself can be the easy way out. It works like this (from what I've discovered):

• ENFP tries to play basketball. His reflexes are slow and most times he isn't really aware of what his body is doing. Consequence: ridicule. Being an ENFP, he instantly perceives the emotional meaning of those messages: People dislike him and distance themselves from him. That is painful. He wants to avoid that. Therefore he wants to avoid playing basketball. In his mind, basketball becomes linked to an experience of intense personal rejection that made him feel bad about himself.
  
  Ten years later, someone invites him to exercise together. Basketball is mentioned. The ENFP instantly says: "No, I totally suck at basketball." - "Come on, give it a shot." - "Ah, no, I'm useless at sports. You guys play, I'm gonna watch." He persuades everyone that any attempts to teach him how to play would be a waste of time. He himself is convinced that this is an objective fact.
  
  What really happened, though, is this.
  
  Subconsciously, mention of "basketball" triggered off memories of ridicule and pain. Part of the ENFP's subconscious mind goes: "Red alert! There's a risk that it might all happen again! Sheesh, doesn't the guy remember how painful it all was?! Let's go and remind him." And the ridicule and criticism gets transmitted to the ENFP's conscious mind as if it's coming from himself. So what the guy thinks isn't "someone thought I suck at basketball and wanted me to stop playing it", but "I suck at basketball and I'd better stop playing it".

I'm averse to external deprecation (love that phrase, btw, it makes it all sounds so dignified). It happens if I'm evaluating the criticism or put-down primarily for the emotional impact. If I distance myself from the situation and think about it objectively, it gets less painful.

[flower]

In ISTJ and INTJ type descriptions I remember reading that they "set high standards for themselves". This implies to me that if they dont live up to these expected standards they would be critical of themselves, and 'judge themselves' in a bad way. Of course, ISTJ's are sometimes known for judging others against their own standards aswell, and can be critical of others if the ISTJ thinks they should have done better.

[Kristiina]

I think intuitive types are the worst. They see what "could have happened, if only...".
But I agree, Ixxj would also do this.

[science as magic]

ixtx types seem prone to it as well

[Rocky]

Self Centered thinking... is that not part of being an I? Perhaps it is more direct, more apparent, with I--Js.

Yes.

There were technically three independent clauses in there. See use of semicolon here. Though, that last clause was a doozie.

(English major)

Which ISTps don't have... or do they?

Yeah they do... but only in terms of animate objects.

Of course, ISTJ's are sometimes known for judging others against their own standards aswell, and can be critical of others if the ISTJ thinks they should have done better.

I'd disagree. I haven't seen IxTJs really criticize people a lot actually. It seems to just be Te (whether they tell other people about it or not).

I think intuitive types are the worst. They see what "could have happened, if only...".

I've done that too... it just seems to be a negative side of reflection.

ixtx types seem prone to it as well

Possibly. Though I tend more towards thinking that other people are "stupid" and stuff like that. It manifests itself more in a "hating the world" kind of way.


Addition: do the ExxPs criticize themselves in the same manner?

[olduser]

Addition: do the ExxPs criticize themselves in the same manner?

oh fuck no!



(sorry. i had to bust up all the wonderfully thought-out and testable SCIENCE occuring in this post.)

[Rocky]

You know, when I first saw your name on this thread I thought to myself, "I'd bet he's going to post some dick-head response that has no meaning anyway".

And you did.

[niveK]

I'm currently thinking myself to be an ILE, so I'll comment on this characteristic in extroverted irrationals (feel free to ignore this if/when it turns out my type isn't ILE).

I do use a lot of self-deprecating statements. Usually I use these statements in relation the activities or skills at which I in fact know I'm good. I do this around other people who I know and expect to tell me how great I actually am at said activities or skills. I'm a compliment-whore. I wonder if such is the motivation for others' self-deprecating behavior, as well.

[felafel]

It would seem some types tend towards self-deprication as a means to avoid taking responsibility for a particular act; by demeaning their skill in a certain field they have, in effect, rid themselves of the responsibility associated with managing the particular job; such is the reason that people who follow such a mindset also depreciate the value of their ability to change their current lackings into talents, as recognizes such potential would in turn force them to take responsibility, if a moral imperative for such recognitiion exists, for their lack of ability and any failings in that particular area.

Longest sentence ***ever***.
.

try and read guy debord - THIS sentence is too short in comparison