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Thread: Guilty until proven innocent

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Default Guilty until proven innocent

    Which types treat you this way?
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    For first impressions I find my supervisee usually treats me this way. Probably because interacting with me is like a constant polr hit. After a while, I can usually win them over.

    IEE Ne Creative Type

    Some and role lovin too. () I too...
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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    mostly ISFjs.

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    FMPOV statics, especially Ij, behave this way. LSI, ESI > LII, EII
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    there was this weird manager guy once upon a time who I thought might be LSI. he always seemed to think I was evil or something or perhaps that I have no conscience. and he always seemed to think the worst of me and my intentions in everything. I remember one time a customer had a complaint about how I was coming across and the manager guy called me into his office about this. at first he tried to present it in a way where I would tell him why I'd been called in, but I had no idea. he asked if there was something i felt guilty about. and although guilt isn't an uncommon feeling for me, i still wasn't getting what he might be referring to. but i think he believed my ignorance was feigned when it wasn't. but finally deciding he wouldn't get me to confess he finally came out with it himself and i was rather surprised (i'm sure he thought that was feigned too). anyway i really hadn't done anything imo... i didn't get what i was supposed to do instead.

    sometimes while i was working the manager would stand and stare at me with his hands behind his back, usually to the side of me so that it would be hard for me to see him (but i could always feel him). this always unnerved me and i think he was satisfied when i finally dropped something or in some other way messed up due to my anxiety about him scrutinizing me. these were oddly the times he seemed to see me as less evil (as he'd express his amusement in random comments), perhaps he felt the "real me" was coming out. anyway had this been this been 1500s Europe I'm sure he would have burned me to death if I didn't confess to some obscure thing about my "faith." so I saw him as rather dangerous and held in only by the more liberal rules of society (I'm sure if he could make his own rules they would horrible). he was like a smoothed over snake with customers himself (fake to the max, but always acting properly). but who knows, maybe he saw the devil in me. but if he did it was only because he was the devil. i actually felt evil around him because i was being treated as though i were. and maybe he knew this and that's why he did it. anyway he had to have been doing some of this on purpose, i just never could figure out what because i really didn't understand him. i did understand that he had targeted me because he could get to me... and it wasn't anything special about me... i think he'd prefer to target everyone and tried to in different ways with everyone.

    PS... although I suspect this guy may have been a sociopath... I find it interesting that an ESI I work with (who's a nice person and not a sociopath) likes to identify the key moments when someone is about to be incompetent and place herself in good viewing range so she can capitalize on the entertainment value of it. And generally it's incompetence with handling objects of some sort. Maybe this is of particular interest/amusement to some Se Ijs (since I've seen it in two people).
    Last edited by inumbra; 06-13-2011 at 05:53 PM.

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    ugh loki that reminds me of a couple people i've known. seriously creepy. i've wondered if they were sociopaths too. like they seem kind of condemning but secretly pleased to know the "truth" about you....blergh, it makes me think of spiders and slime.

    i doubt guilty until proven innocent is type related but i can see how IJ types might seem that way if they've formed a negative opinion of you since they deal with an outlook that is firm and subjective. and i guess i can see how loki's guy could arguably be IJ in that way, but i obviously wouldnt describe that as typical.

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    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    i doubt guilty until proven innocent is type related but i can see how IJ types might seem that way if they've formed a negative opinion of you since they deal with an outlook that is firm and subjective. and i guess i can see how loki's guy could arguably be IJ in that way, but i obviously wouldnt describe that as typical.
    oh well my post wasn't really a serious response to the topic in the sense of identifying types that are more likely to be this way... i mean with the person i mentioned it was imo NTR even if he was maybe LSI... and i never really was sure what type he was looking back. probably an ST at the very least.

    like they seem kind of condemning but secretly pleased to know the "truth" about you
    yes, that was the feeling. and with this guy i couldn't tell if he even thought this was the "truth" about me or was just messing with me or what. i felt like a mouse being played with by a cat before it finally eats it or something.

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    mostly ISFjs.
    Yep.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    @ loki - oh sorry, i was just branching off in thought and didnt mean to imply that was how i interpreted you.

    but now i'm wondering if i'm ever like that...i dont really go out of my way to hover around or actively condemn people but there can be a sense of satisfaction in feeling i know whats really up. i'm sure that can seem pretty gross to anyone who doesn't know where i'm coming from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    there was this weird manager guy once upon a time who I thought might be LSI. he always seemed to think I was evil or something or perhaps that I have no conscience. and he always seemed to think the worst of me and my intentions in everything. I remember one time a customer had a complaint about how I was coming across and the manager guy called me into his office about this. at first he tried to present it in a way where I would tell him why I'd been called in, but I had no idea. he asked if there was something i felt guilty about. and although guilt isn't an uncommon feeling for me, i still wasn't getting what he might be referring to. but i think he believed my ignorance was feigned when it wasn't. but finally deciding he wouldn't get me to confess he finally came out with it himself and i was rather surprised (i'm sure he thought that was feigned too). anyway i really hadn't done anything imo... i didn't get what i was supposed to do instead.

    sometimes while i was working the manager would stand and stare at me with his hands behind his back, usually to the side of me so that it would be hard for me to see him (but i could always feel him). this always unnerved me and i think he was satisfied when i finally dropped something or in some other way messed up due to my anxiety about him scrutinizing me. these were oddly the times he seemed to see me as less evil (as he'd express his amusement in random comments), perhaps he felt the "real me" was coming out. anyway had this been this been 1500s Europe I'm sure he would have burned me to death if I didn't confess to some obscure thing about my "faith." so I saw him as rather dangerous and held in only by the more liberal rules of society (I'm sure if he could make his own rules they would horrible). he was like a smoothed over snake with customers himself (fake to the max, but always acting properly). but who knows, maybe he saw the devil in me. but if he did it was only because he was the devil. i actually felt evil around him because i was being treated as though i were. and maybe he knew this and that's why he did it. anyway he had to have been doing some of this on purpose, i just never could figure out what because i really didn't understand him. i did understand that he had targeted me because he could get to me... and it wasn't anything special about me... i think he'd prefer to target everyone and tried to in different ways with everyone.
    I had a friend whose LSI father was kinda like that. He thought I was a slacker and skipped school a lot, every time he met me with my friend - his son - he asked me "Did you do your homework today???" trying to guilt trip me or something, with a very suspicious look (we were 13-14 at the time). Anyway my grades where heaps better than his son's grades (in fact I was top of the class and he was kinda struggling) and I never skipped school, so I have no clue where he got this impression from...my friend agreed with me on the matter, and he had no clue either, except maybe he said that "I didn't look like a very serious person (at 13????)".

    I am completely sure that this man really thinks he knows the "real me" because I met him at the supermarket like, 2 years ago, and he still prodded me with the same kind of attitude...but since now I'm older I just messed with him and basically made him look dumb with everything he said.

    I don't think it's strictly type related, but some degenerate versions of some types (IJ-Se, probably) can be like that more than others. Just like a degenerate Fe-EJ can be a raging maniac, or Te-EJ workaholic slavemaster.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Fuck-up NewBorn STAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    there was this weird manager guy once upon a time who I thought might be LSI. he always seemed to think I was evil or something or perhaps that I have no conscience. and he always seemed to think the worst of me and my intentions in everything. I remember one time a customer had a complaint about how I was coming across and the manager guy called me into his office about this. at first he tried to present it in a way where I would tell him why I'd been called in, but I had no idea. he asked if there was something i felt guilty about. and although guilt isn't an uncommon feeling for me, i still wasn't getting what he might be referring to. but i think he believed my ignorance was feigned when it wasn't. but finally deciding he wouldn't get me to confess he finally came out with it himself and i was rather surprised (i'm sure he thought that was feigned too). anyway i really hadn't done anything imo... i didn't get what i was supposed to do instead.

    sometimes while i was working the manager would stand and stare at me with his hands behind his back, usually to the side of me so that it would be hard for me to see him (but i could always feel him). this always unnerved me and i think he was satisfied when i finally dropped something or in some other way messed up due to my anxiety about him scrutinizing me. these were oddly the times he seemed to see me as less evil (as he'd express his amusement in random comments), perhaps he felt the "real me" was coming out. anyway had this been this been 1500s Europe I'm sure he would have burned me to death if I didn't confess to some obscure thing about my "faith." so I saw him as rather dangerous and held in only by the more liberal rules of society (I'm sure if he could make his own rules they would horrible). he was like a smoothed over snake with customers himself (fake to the max, but always acting properly). but who knows, maybe he saw the devil in me. but if he did it was only because he was the devil. i actually felt evil around him because i was being treated as though i were. and maybe he knew this and that's why he did it. anyway he had to have been doing some of this on purpose, i just never could figure out what because i really didn't understand him. i did understand that he had targeted me because he could get to me... and it wasn't anything special about me... i think he'd prefer to target everyone and tried to in different ways with everyone.
    I had a friend whose LSI father was kinda like that. He thought I was a slacker and skipped school a lot, every time he met me with my friend - his son - he asked me "Did you do your homework today???" trying to guilt trip me or something, with a very suspicious look (we were 13-14 at the time). Anyway my grades where heaps better than his son's grades (in fact I was top of the class and he was kinda struggling) and I never skipped school, so I have no clue where he got this impression from...my friend agreed with me on the matter, and he had no clue either, except maybe he said that "I didn't look like a very serious person (at 13????)".

    I am completely sure that this man really thinks he knows the "real me" because I met him at the supermarket like, 2 years ago, and he still prodded me with the same kind of attitude...but since now I'm older I just messed with him and basically made him look dumb with everything he said.

    I don't think it's strictly type related, but some degenerate versions of some types (IJ-Se, probably) can be like that more than others. Just like a degenerate Fe-EJ can be a raging maniac, or Te-EJ workaholic slavemaster.
    Oh how powerful you are !

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    Man I'm like super suspicious of everybody all the time. You want my trust you gotta earn it!

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewBorn STAR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post

    I had a friend whose LSI father was kinda like that. He thought I was a slacker and skipped school a lot, every time he met me with my friend - his son - he asked me "Did you do your homework today???" trying to guilt trip me or something, with a very suspicious look (we were 13-14 at the time). Anyway my grades where heaps better than his son's grades (in fact I was top of the class and he was kinda struggling) and I never skipped school, so I have no clue where he got this impression from...my friend agreed with me on the matter, and he had no clue either, except maybe he said that "I didn't look like a very serious person (at 13????)".

    I am completely sure that this man really thinks he knows the "real me" because I met him at the supermarket like, 2 years ago, and he still prodded me with the same kind of attitude...but since now I'm older I just messed with him and basically made him look dumb with everything he said.

    I don't think it's strictly type related, but some degenerate versions of some types (IJ-Se, probably) can be like that more than others. Just like a degenerate Fe-EJ can be a raging maniac, or Te-EJ workaholic slavemaster.
    Oh how powerful you are !
    Lol. I just think he hit the wrong spot. I'm sure he could have found a thousands reasons to question my ethics which would have been more legitimate.

    Man I'm like super suspicious of everybody all the time. You want my trust you gotta earn it!
    Or maybe people just want to ignore you.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Or maybe people just want to ignore you.


    *slowly leaves thread..*

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Not me. Innocent until proven guilty. This may be for people who have difficulty trusting others, like LSI or ESE. I, on the other hand, trust easily and confidently although I can be suspicious.

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    Negative types.

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    primarily with LSI and possibly ESI but definitely the former; I have to think about this some more...
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    There have been a couple of people I've typed ESI that are like this and another girl I work with that sort of picks and chooses who she treats like in the OP. I'm leaning towards SEE for her, but I've alternatively questioned ESE or SLE.

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    I don't treat people as guilty until proven innocent. At least I don't think so.

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    The unbalanced behavior as expressed literally in the OP is not type related. It is probably related to self-esteem troubles and bad experiences in life.

    But we can find a correlation with a much softer form of it. Negativist would be by nature mistrustful people. They tend to doubt more about the intentions of others so they could need a more stronger positive evidences. I suppose an IJ behavior could enhace this effect. But the question is: doubting more =/="you're guilty".
    Last edited by ssss; 06-20-2011 at 04:19 PM.

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