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Thread: Personal Growth

  1. #1
    Creepy-Snaps

    Default Personal Growth

    Hey 16types. It's really late, and I'm really tired, but I think I just finally realized something which I had been trying to piece together for a while.

    So, I know I've been disliked before for 'preaching' at people, for 'smug self-importance', and maybe even for thinking that I'm always right. I'd just like to share a realization that I was wrong about something. Figured I'd write here and share it publicly instead of doing a journal entry. I'll probably regret this in the morning. This is just stream of consciousness writing, take from it what you want.

    People know what's best for them. This is something I've always been a strong believer in. Probably can be understood very well for any person who's grown up in a family with members from outside their quadra.

    And this is the beauty of people. Of 16 different personality types, of all kinds of different perspectives, all competing to leave their own footprint on the world. Some people don't want to leave a footprint, but just go with the flow. See, I can't say anything strongly and confidently that everyone will agree to. You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time!

    I'm 23 now. Have had some big fights recently with my parents. About my future. About caring. About lots of stuff! We just don't see eye-to-eye. We disagree on a lot!!!

    But I'm perfectly old enough to choose for myself what I want. What I need. My needs and wants are different from my parents.

    See, I think it's natural, on a psychological and mature level, once you reach 25+ or so in age, to want to share your experiences with the world. To make the world a better place.

    Anyone take psychology? The stages of development. That 21+ or so group, the last group, where you can finally see the world objectively, see yourself as part of a whole. Finally take away your personal characteristics, the teenage drama of finding your personal identity, and see yourself as truly a part of a group, a part of society.

    Let me give an example. In high school, a friend from my high school died in a car accident. She was speeding between 70-75 mph on a 35mph curvy, windy, backroad, while not wearing a seatbelt. She swerved off the road and hit a tree, died instantly.

    I thought she was an idiot. I wouldn't let myself feel pity for her. I was very cold. I couldn't mourn for someone who brought about an accident on herself.

    After all, my entire life, my parents always told me to wear a seatbelt. They told me not to speed. They warned me of all these dangers. For me, it was common sense.

    ... But now, being a bit older, my perspective has changed. I take away the individuality part of it. What are parents teaching their children in society? Are our driving laws not strict enough? Should drivers education be mandated? Should the legal driving age be raised, so 'kids' are generally more mature when they get behind the wheel?

    See, perspective changes over time. Anytime I see an "accident", I'm able to empathize more than ever. I wonder if that could happen to me. Or someone I know and love. What was the person really doing wrong?

    Anyway. Got on a huge tangent. That's not even where I wanted to go with this thread.

    Basically, perspective changes over time. Now, I'm very stubborn in my following belief: EVERYONE WANTS TO BE SUCCESSFUL! I fully recommend "The Magic of Thinking BIG" by David Schwartz. That book will change your life.

    What I'm finally realizing, is that SUCCESS is truly defined in different ways. I think one way in my life, AND on this forum, which I've come across as 'preachy' towards people, is because I was soooo convinced that my advice could help people.

    ... Because it can.

    ...

    Oh wait, that's just my perspective.

    Over the past few months, a couple times I 'scolded' people for misusing socionics. For not using it to better intertype relationships, but using it destructively, to take people down. One time in DJ's thread about how to capitalize on people POLRs rings a bell, and I forget the other time.

    And the responses I got? They said using socionics to improve relationships was one way of looking at things.

    ... Now I don't know if that's just my Alpha version of viewing things. Why, as a society, should we invest so many countless hours of research and study, into understanding intertype relationships, if we don't use it to help ourselves get better as a society? Get stronger? Otherwise it seems like a waste of time, right?

    Again, I think I'm realizing maybe that's just my optimistic perspective, using the knowledge for good. I feel like right now, k0rpsey or HLD or other Gammas would come screaming in at me, reminding me how politicians and media could use knowledge and power for evil.

    Now, even more specifically in my realization, I hadn't realized that teaching was only my perspective. Or doing. Maybe that's Ej temperament. In my 'look-alike teachers' thread, comparing ESFjs and ESTjs. Doers. Practical advice-givers.

    Even more more specifically, I've given people advice on how to be successful professionally, financially, in their careers. Loki called me a hypocrite. And I've given some of my friends in real life advice too, which has helped. Others, I can tell, don't even want my advice. They're not worried about achieving success.

    Maybe that's enneagram 3 talking. But I'm realizing, some people focus so much on spirituality, of relaxation, or romance, of obtaining power, they simply don't care about achieving things, or making a difference in the world. They don't look at what they do.

    I've never been one to revel in my accomplishments. I define myself by who I am, and where I'm going, and what difference I can make in the world, rather than focus on past accomplishments. But I do believe making a concrete, tangible difference in the world is important.

    But anyway. I'm getting on another tangent, what I believe. Truth is, not everybody cares! What I think isn't what everyone else thinks! It's not right or wrong, it simply is! And again, that's the beauty of people! That's the beauty of each of us being diverse, and having our own strengths. Bringing our strengths together and becoming unstoppable.

    Maybe that sounds like some hippy, feel-good, optimistic euphoria. But I truly see the positive, the potential of each and every person.

    ... But not everyone wants my advice.

    ... And more importantly, which I'm learning from discussions with my parents lately, MY advice isn't best for everyone. I imagine myself being the parent. I can't give all of MY advice, my knowledge and experience, to my child, if they see things differently than me, if they're a different type/quadra than me, etc. etc. I can still love and care for them, yes. But when is it time to let them make their own decisions? Think for themselves?

    Because as we all know, there are some things in life that can't be taught by theory. Sometimes you just have to go out and try, and fail, and adjust. Learn by experience.

    "You can't be old and wise without first being young and foolish."

    Mmm.

    Anyway, I guess this is just a huge that my ethics, high standards, and expectations aren't truly for everyone. Not because others are lazy, or don't want success; they just want it in different ways. And people aren't BAD, they're just different.

    I feel more humble now than ever before. I feel like a complete jackass for having developed an 'all mightier than you' attitude. For feeling more important than others.

    I still think my attitudes are better than others, yes. I think if others change their perspectives, and attitudes, they can achieve their own success, however they define it, more easily. That's not something I'm willing to change my mind about anytime soon.

    But I'm not better than others. Not with intelligence, or morals, or anything else.

    At work, I stayed after today, trying to get more done. Ya know, achieve more. And whenever I do that, I always smile and greet the housekeeping staff warmly. Even though it's a professional building, and I'm in a suit and tie, I feel no better than them. I was just doing housekeeping a few months ago! Earning less than minimum wage! Until I got lucky in this economy.

    But when I'm nice to them, it's not that I feel sorry for them. Because they're happy too, it seems, deep down. Not everyone wants/needs money, or "achievements", in order to feel successful. They have reasons to be happy too, for living, for breathing, for seeing the sunshine/sunset every day.

    Or maybe they are miserable. Maybe my advice can help them. But only if they want it. And what I do, and what I've gone through, isn't for everyone. Because deep down, my beliefs and convictions are simply different than others. But not necessarily better.

    That's enough for now. Sorry if this is too long, and it turned into preaching again anyway. Once again, I love you all. (Not as much as the thread I made a few months ago though. ) I love even the bickering, the fighting (while being appropriate! ), the different viewpoints. I love not being respected for my attitudes and viewpoints, because it keeps me humble. Keeps things real. Because I'm just one person. And the things I want to do in my life, the differences I want to make, will be a big footprint on the world in my eyes. BUT. In the grand scheme of things, it's just a footprint. It's everyone walking and leaving their own footprints which makes the world enjoyable.

    Hopefully you guys got something valuable from this.

    Mountain Dew
    Last edited by Snaps; 06-11-2011 at 06:15 AM.

  2. #2
    Park's Avatar
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    I read your post up to somewhere past the middle, and I identify with most of the things you're saying. I'm about the same age as you and have had very similar thoughts going through my head lately, especially regarding my outlook on life and how I integrate with society on a more global, less "individualistic" (though I'm not sure that's the right word to use here) level.

    Anyways, I generally find your posts interesting to read, and quite often relatable on some level, and I think you're a cool dude. Keep growing and keep posting here.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  3. #3
    Creepy-Snaps

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    Thank you for the kind replies Vois and Parkster.

  4. #4
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
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    You write like a motivational speaker speaks.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  5. #5
    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    I thought that personal growth was an euphemism for "getting hard"
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
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    Having read this, I think you're potentially a dangerous person.

  7. #7
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    You write like a motivational speaker speaks.
    Lol. Yeah.

    Anyway - I try to use socionics in a useful way IRL. On this forum usually discussions are about its "intellectual" side so they're bound to end in conflict - even strict academic discussions in universities often end in not-so-nonchalant debates.

    I don't relate to your part about growing up. I've been thinking objectively since I was 5.

    Btw, as far as i know, you only have a bs in finance. That's not a big accomplishment, millions of people in the world get the same kind of titles every year. You need something much more humanity-changing to think about yourself as being even a little accomplished.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  8. #8
    Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    You write like a motivational speaker speaks.
    Great observation. Gives me an idea for a thread.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  9. #9
    Creepy-male

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    First of you seem e2w3, which will probably mean nothing unless you dove into some enneagram. If you haven't then well I'm too lazy to explain in full.

    A lot of the OP seems enneagram 3ish

    And what stood out to me as e2 ish was the fact you actually got angry at the girl who crashed her car. No offense or anything but that seems to be hallmark e2. I picture e4's as being more sympathetic to people who die and stuff, they are already more melancholic and so the darkness of something like death they tend to do better with than e2's which are optimistic to no end, as they tend to be in the positive outlook group. e4's also tend to identify with their own weakness and failings and I could imagine almost immediately emphasizing with the driver, as even though they made the mistake of driving irresponsibly they can probably appreciate the innocent weakness or flawed nature of the person, and after the fact maybe feel some sense of remorse or see it as an opportunity to recognize their own problems.

    At any rate this seem e2, a sort of possessive attitude, like the e2 "owns" others, they feel sort of like they own their friends, as they help them out a lot, they feel occasionally a sense of needing a return investment. At their worse this sense of reciporcation and owning is at its worse, indignantly complaining when others fail to reciporcate. Your attitude sounds slightly like you worked through a low point in your e2-ness, you felt that alot of other people cared about that person and they wasted there life carelessly and therefore you felt that lack of reciporcation.

    So that's where my reasoning comes in for e2.

    Secondarily you don't really understand me, in fact the fact you painted me with the same brush as k0rpsey and gammas just proves that. k0rpsey to me seems like an e6w5 with e8 as his gut-triad type, the guy is tough and realistic, no non-sense, and values science. Probably not soo much in the sense of liking to compute out the schrodinger wave equation, but more in the sense science represents a collective enterprise driven by rationality and reasoning, where dramatic emotion is suppressed over reasoning. The guy clearly has a distaste for drama that is emotional in nature. He also seems e6 because he is intelligent but also slightly paranoid and has mentioned his distrust of certain people or society time and time again.

    I am not like that at all.

    Gammas in general, I feel have been represented chiefly by Ashton and k0rpsey on this forum, so the typical idea of a gamma is a tough no-nonsense realist intellectual. (or at least gamma NTs)

    I am much different.... I'm capable of realism as I'm a thinking type, but its not my natural vibration or frequency. Realists imo tend to be very stable, as they are constantly focused on reality as it is. They see their movements as slow immediately gradual steps in reality. I by contrast am much more vibrational, I go between idealism and cynicism quite frequently and violently. I am extremely unstable and chaotic more like fire, highly entropic. I tend to move towards ideals and lofty things but then constantly cross check these with thinking realistically, and then occassionally fall into a cynical state of realism. Which isn't the same thing as "pure realism" which is what I think ashton and k0rpsey are like.

    By now you're probably confused. So let me explain this a little more pedantic. A realist see "what is". An idealist sees "what could be". A cynic sees "what it probably isn't". Further you probably know the quote cynicism is idealism dissappointed.

    So the difference is a realist is focused on what is. What is good in reality, is good. What is bad in reality, is bad. They focus on REALITY as it is.

    An idealist tends to see what could be good in what is bad. So they are different. Whilst a cynic is one who sees what is bad in what is good.

    Hopefully this makes sense.

    I'm more of a mix between idealist and cynic. And that cynicism takes all kinds of qualities. Sometimes its humorous, and other times its skeptical/critical, and other times its guteral and contemptous, and finally other times is sad and melancholy.

    That's mainly where I object to your positive thinking... is my cynical side. I think you make things sound so much simpler than they really are. No offense but all the positive thinking stuff on here I feel I am so much past that point, and searching for something deeper or greater.

    Like Timmy saying people are connected to each other... it would be great if it were true and if everyday it wasn't a reality that the planet is populated with 5 billion people and the vast majority of people see each other as passerbys and so many people go un-noticed. People purposefully go to extremes to disconnect themselves from the homeless and other trash. Society practically teaches us to compartimentalize ourselves in social spheres and reject everything else like some kind of socialized immune system.

    I understand that connection is good and interconnectivity to me is fundamental to my spiritual belief in the world. But sitting around believing nice little fairy tales is great up to a certain point until you realize the huge disparity between fantasy and reality. I'm tired of people living shitty mediocre lives and gripping tightly and paranoidly to the last remenants of some childish ideals to perserve their spirits from breaking. I want people to be great, and start living freely and without fear. I want people to connect with others, to take a bad situation and transform it into something great. To be walking under the city lights at 2 am at the end of the day like a fucking champion, instead of groveling around town just another face in the crowd, frantically measuring every action to be in line with social custom so that people will accept them.

    I ready to see that in myself and other people, and the fact I don't... is constantly dissappointing my idealism.

    That's why I dislike all these fanciful ideas... they make me feel good, but at the end of the day I know they end up being like a drug addiction and ends with you in some abandoned building pathetically shooting up more and more into your arm to get by.

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