Rude during religious ceremony?

[UDP]

Anybody can be motivated to make a statement or be petty or selfish, or show disregard, or act out.

I think the OP just as more to do with showing how lobo is oriented, in that his take on Fi matters and value of relationships, and reasons for doing things or finding displeasure with things, can more or less easily be seen as coming from an Fi in ego block.

[rat1]

God condemns the use of cellphones within these halls. Please deactivate them now

Seems to me that when you are in someone's house, you should do your best to follow their rules and listen.

No, being in someone elses house doesn't obligate you to accommodate their random ass hangups. The owner can ask you to leave if he sees fit; that and the ability to bar you from entering are the only powers he possesses over you.

[Lobo]

honestly I think it would be the first step to a more independent and thoughtful humanity. no more daddy figures in black silk dresses to confess to in darkness, no more sacrificial animals on crosses to cry for like a noble sinner, no more diluted occult theft taken as the Word Of God, etc. people would probably flip out initially, big deal, that just shows they needed the chain broken.

The blind indoctrination aspect that not only happens in the catholic church, but other religions as well, to me is what is responsible for certain traditions to continue to this day. There is no consideration for the psychological welfare of people under such indoctrinations, and how those things that they are taught as truth at such a young age might affect the way they handle life's difficulties later on.

@crazedrat too: The catholic church is definitely more than just the sum of its scandals, some of which aren't even encouraged or supported by the tenets of the religion. To just "tear it down" would also affect, for one, the millions of underprivileged people who are helped by catholic charities when the government doesn't step in. To just destroy it altogether in an attempt to eliminate some evils, without considering how it will affect other areas of society, would be a disservice to mankind. A reform would imo be the better choice.

Seems to me that when you are in someone's house, you should do your best to follow their rules and listen. When I go to church for my wife, I stand at the times when all stand, at least pretend to read along during prayers and hymns, and remain quiet when they are praying. I'm a non-beleiver, so I'm not going to pray or kneel, or eat the crackers, but I will play along otherwise. You are a guest. It would be disrespectful to fain support, or rejection.

If you come to my house, take off your dirty shoes and use a coaster. I don't care what you do in your house.

That's what I was going for, but instead of someone's house, an unenforced group gathering.

[ashlesha]

i dont think that refraining from pretending to believe in something you don't is "making a statement." if the default is being honest and being yourself then pretending to go along with something that isn't actually true for you would be more accurately described as "making a statement." its grossing me out that people are referring to it that way.

also politeness is one thing, but why expect somebody to pretend to believe in the same god that you do...its one of the more invasive social expectations i can think of. spiritual beliefs are serious... to me it seems sort of like expecting someone to say they love you even if they don't. lying by saying somebody looks nice when they don't, ok, standard little social ritual. lying by performing religious rites that have no meaning for you is different imo.

[rat1]

@crazedrat too: The catholic church is definitely more than just the sum of its scandals, some of which aren't even encouraged or supported by the tenets of the religion.

They have shown in laboratory animals if you deprive them of sex for a prolonged period they will resort to sex with close species, distance species, and eventually will hump the sides of their cage. It's predictable the priests are pedophiles after a lifetime of sworn chastity under punishment of hellfire. The catholic church is responsible for what it creates. I see no separation between the beliefs and their consequences.

To just "tear it down" would also affect, for one, the millions of underprivileged people who are helped by catholic charities when the government doesn't step in. To just destroy it altogether in an attempt to eliminate some evils, without considering how it will affect other areas of society, would be a disservice to mankind. A reform would imo be the better choice.

Charity is just another form of welfare. Welfare only prolongs / enables the problems it aims to resolve. I.e. you take homeless people.. you open soup kitchens and feed them. This does a few things. Instead of scrounging for jobs so they can feed themselves, the homeless people are scrounging to get at the front of the line at the soup kitchen. Without the charities handling the homeless situation maybe there'd be opportunities for cheap labor (work for food), or better. The church steals money from scared old people and gives it away to homeless people. That's not a good use of resources. If the church were to suddenly dissolve yes there would be a crisis for all those who've grown to depend on its handouts. But that problem was created by the church.

[Lobo]

i dont think that refraining from pretending to believe in something you don't is "making a statement." if the default is being honest and being yourself then pretending to go along with something that isn't actually true for you would be more accurately described as "making a statement." its grossing me out that people are referring to it that way.

also politeness is one thing, but why expect somebody to pretend to believe in the same god that you do...its one of the more invasive social expectations i can think of. spiritual beliefs are serious... to me it seems sort of like expecting someone to say they love you even if they don't. lying by saying somebody looks nice when they don't, ok, standard little social ritual. lying by performing religious rites that have no meaning for you is different imo.

Lagh, you're killing me here, lol. Maybe I should have clarified more about the type of actions I was referring to. I wasn't talking about: kneeling, making the sign of the cross, praying the "Our Father," taking communion, even singing. I agree, people shouldn't be forced to do something they don't believe in. I was talking more about those things that are not indicative of "worship," such as standing during a gospel reading and sitting all slouched down obviously not wanting to be there.

They have shown in laboratory animals if you deprive them of sex for a prolonged period they will resort to sex with close species, distance species, and eventually will hump the sides of their cage. It's predictable the priests are pedophiles after a lifetime of sworn chastity under punishment of hellfire. The catholic church is responsible for what it creates. I see no separation between the beliefs and their consequences.

Sure, depriving someone of sex for a lifetime might produce deviant sexual behaviors. How is this the church's fault though? If anything, it's those people who submit themselves to the priesthood. There are priests/nuns who aren't pedophiles, and chose to live celibate lives, and it's unfair to say that they will be humping little kids/etc because of that. Many might be asexual too. The fact that priests are expected to live celibate lives is more of a tradition rather than something found in the bible, afaik.

Charity is just another form of welfare. Welfare only prolongs / enables the problems it aims to resolve. I.e. you take homeless people.. you open soup kitchens and feed them. This does a few things. Instead of scrounging for jobs so they can feed themselves, the homeless people are scrounging to get at the front of the line at the soup kitchen. Without the charities handling the homeless situation maybe there'd be opportunities for cheap labor (work for food), or better. The church steals money from scared old people and gives it away to homeless people. That's not a good use of resources. If the church were to suddenly dissolve yes there would be a crisis for all those who've grown to depend on its handouts. But that problem was created by the church.

I don't agree with that, and blaming church charities as the source of why people can't find jobs to feed themselves is ridiculous. The money going to church charities is from donation. You think that they will give a "donation 101" class to teach people when they shouldn't donate money? People have to wise up too. I agree that there are many charities that use emotional manipulation tactics to acquire money (might even embezzle, unfortunately), but I can't say I blame the legit ones when they know how a reduced number of donations will affect those they are helping.

[rat1]

No, celibacy of priests is part of the bible and it directly causes sexually deviant behavior such as touching little boys penises.
The charity argument.. I don't care if you simply disagree, try substantiating that claim. Then you may earn a response.
But I'd rather not getting into this with you since it's a delicate subject which requires clarity of thinking and you don't possess that skill.

[strrrng]

The blind indoctrination aspect that not only happens in the catholic church, but other religions as well, to me is what is responsible for certain traditions to continue to this day. There is no consideration for the psychological welfare of people under such indoctrinations, and how those things that they are taught as truth at such a young age might affect the way they handle life's difficulties later on.

well yeah, I see no difference between asking god to fix grandpa's bowel dysfunction and waiting for the next set of food stamps.

The catholic church is definitely more than just the sum of its scandals, some of which aren't even encouraged or supported by the tenets of the religion. To just "tear it down" would also affect, for one, the millions of underprivileged people who are helped by catholic charities when the government doesn't step in. To just destroy it altogether in an attempt to eliminate some evils, without considering how it will affect other areas of society, would be a disservice to mankind. A reform would imo be the better choice.

"He who establishes a tyranny and does not kill Brutus, and he who establishes a democratic regime and does not kill the sons of Brutus, will not last long." - Machiavelli

Brutus immolated his sons upon establishing a tyranny; priests anally fuck them to keep it benign.


killing is just so much more efficient. realistically, the collective psyche will have to live out the lord-servant duality to its zenith.

They have shown in laboratory animals if you deprive them of sex for a prolonged period they will resort to sex with close species, distance species, and eventually will hump the sides of their cage. It's predictable the priests are pedophiles after a lifetime of sworn chastity under punishment of hellfire. The catholic church is responsible for what it creates. I see no separation between the beliefs and their consequences.

yeah, this is why the catholic church was so adamantly against birth control. breed a bunch of catholics and you both justify your sterility and gain more youthful livestock. so fucked up lol.