Stereotype Gamma-A1/LIE-ENTj and MONEY

[DirectorAbbie]

MONEY
thread title based on the quadra most often associated with the stereotype, the likelihood that a socionist knows of the stereotype, the popularity of the stereotype, and the type most often associated with the stereotype

Scrooge McDuck (LSE) hoards money. He likes that it's valuable and shiny and he gets emotionally attached to it.

My brother (SLE) values money. Because everyone else does. I can bribe him with it, and he can bribe someone else with it.

Squishy (SEI) likes spending money. He doesn't accept bribes. He would rather have entertainment or a sandwich.

Discuss How Money is Type-Related

[Gilly]

What the fuck.

[eunice]

Here is my general opinion on Delta types I have known (incl. myself) (Ok, I might sound a bit stereotypical and cliched): Delta types are probably more interested in the things they can buy with money, rather than money itself. To Delta types, time is money, so they prefer to work adequately to support their lifestyle, rather than work obscenely long hours in order to earn much more money but don't have the time to spend it on themselves and their loved ones. Delta NFs like to buy things which make them happy, and sometimes the things might even be considered frivolous to others. Delta STs spend more on the necessities, and they like their things to have a classic look (i.e. something that is timeless and don't go out of fashion easily).

[Suz]

Here is my general opinion on Delta types I have known (incl. myself) (Ok, I might sound a bit stereotypical and cliched): Delta types are probably more interested in the things they can buy with money, rather than money itself. To Delta types, time is money, so they prefer to work adequately to support their lifestyle, rather than work obscenely long hours in order to earn much more money but don't have the time to spend it on themselves and their loved ones. Delta NFs like to buy things which make them happy, and sometimes the things might even be considered frivolous to others. Delta STs spend more on the necessities, and they like their things to have a classic look (i.e. something that is timeless and don't go out of fashion easily).

[FDG]

rather than work obscenely long hours in order to earn much more money but don't have the time to spend it on themselves and their loved ones.

How many people actively like doing that (in % over the total population)?

[717495]

I think she's just trying to say that Delta is the most intelligent quadra, which obviously you don't grasp.

No but seriously, I like that description, even if I think it's questionable it fits me kinda well, aside from that time isn't that high-rated due to me slacking off. Slacker or whoever IEE it was was talking about really wanting an ipad and still talks about it now that she has it. I got obsessed over things I want to buy all the time, like right now I'm so about to get this gore tex military sack to keep me warm and dry during camping even though I'm not even going camping, and I just got a bivy tent .

I think objects for Gammas or even Betas are more about "where that will take them next" rather than just the having of it.

But for the most part I'm just making stuff up for conversation.

[eunice]

How many people actively like doing that (in % over the total population)?

In terms of "working time around the world", the following study by International Labour Organization seems to suggest that "one in five workers worldwide are putting in "excessive hours""

http://www.ilocarib.org.tt/portal/in...16&Itemid=1210

As for my personal observation, I see this phenomenon quite often around me. Maybe it's just that I know a disproportionately number of people (e.g. friends, acquaintances, colleagues) around me who tend to work very long hours.

[eunice]

Slacker or whoever IEE it was was talking about really wanting an ipad and still talks about it now that she has it. I got obsessed over things I want to buy all the time, like right now I'm so about to get this gore tex military sack to keep me warm and dry during camping even though I'm not even going camping, and I just got a bivy tent.

Haha, sounds like me at times. Anyway, when I really want something, I will try to find reasons on why I need to have it even though it might not even be a "need" in the first place.

[FDG]

As for my personal observation, I see this phenomenon quite often around me. Maybe it's just that I know a disproportionately number of people (e.g. friends, acquaintances, colleagues) around me who tend to work very long hours.

Probably yes, because I don't know anyone that works a lot in order to earn a lot of money. Mostly because those who work a lot don't necessarily earn much more, quite the contrary...

btw, I wouldn't use that study as a source since ofc "worldwide" there will be many exploited people, given that most of the world is still living barely beyond subsistence level. If you check it out, it does say that those who work the most are doing so to make ends meet, rather than accumulating tons of money.

[ashlesha]

Haha, sounds like me at times. Anyway, when I really want something, I will try to find reasons on why I need to have it even though it might not even be a "need" in the first place.

yeah i've tended to feel guilty about buying anything if i cant justify it as needed somehow even if technically barely anything is actually "needed." but i've gotten more and more lax with this over time and i'm sure its environmental. i think attitudes about money are influenced by environment to a degree that overwhelms any socionic factors. but maybe what poli said. and i remember an old thread that asked whether people saw money as more primarily providing freedom or security (i think it was correlated to Ni/Se vs Si/Ne but i cant remember) and i would for sure say the latter.

[stanprollyright]

Everyone likes money because everyone likes stuff. The end. NTR. kbai.

[ashlesha]

what about the cabin in the wilderness people? mostly delta sts prob

[Korpsy Knievel]

what about the cabin in the wilderness people? mostly delta sts prob

I'm probably the only one here who lived in a Kaczynski-style shack in the woods.

[EyeSeeCold]

what about the cabin in the wilderness people? mostly delta sts prob

I'm probably the only one here who lived in a Kaczynski-style shack in the woods.

Is this an auto-pat-on-the-back or an unbiased assessment of the probabilities of that scenario?

[Timeless]

Here is my general opinion on Delta types I have known (incl. myself) (Ok, I might sound a bit stereotypical and cliched): Delta types are probably more interested in the things they can buy with money, rather than money itself. To Delta types, time is money, so they prefer to work adequately to support their lifestyle, rather than work obscenely long hours in order to earn much more money but don't have the time to spend it on themselves and their loved ones. Delta NFs like to buy things which make them happy, and sometimes the things might even be considered frivolous to others. Delta STs spend more on the necessities, and they like their things to have a classic look (i.e. something that is timeless and don't go out of fashion easily).

[Korpsy Knievel]

I'm probably the only one here who lived in a Kaczynski-style shack in the woods.

Is this an auto-pat-on-the-back or an unbiased assessment of the probabilities of that scenario?

I'm probably the only one here who lived in a Kaczynski-style shack in the woods.

[DirectorAbbie]

I think she's just trying to say that Delta is the most intelligent quadra

This thread isn't about Deltas. How did you people come to that conclusion?!

What do you think of money and how is that type-related?

[Korpsy Knievel]

What do you think of money and how is that type-related?

Money is gamma which is why we have so many beta ST rappers counting stacks of $100s in their videos and draping their bejeweled selves across the fine leather seats of their million-dollar cars.

[MisterNi]

Money? I like money. I even like making money with money. I am not however, swinish about it.

[717495]

I think she's just trying to say that Delta is the most intelligent quadra

This thread isn't about Deltas. How did you people come to that conclusion?!

What do you think of money and how is that type-related?

I already answered. u skip what I say?

[stanprollyright]

What do you think of money and how is that type-related?

It's not.

[Absurd]

Money is type related, it correlates well with LIE and ancient temperaments.

[Cat King Cole]

Squishy (SEI) likes spending money. He doesn't accept bribes. He would rather have entertainment or a sandwich.

You could bribe me with a sandwich though.

I also don't like spending money. I like saving money, and I like not spending money. I enjoy myself or what I've bought more if I can tell myself that I've saved money getting it.

[DirectorAbbie]

I also don't like spending money. I like saving money, and I like not spending money. I enjoy myself or what I've bought more if I can tell myself that I've saved money getting it.

So would you rather get a name-brand item on sale or a generic brand item at the regular price? The former is a little better and the latter is a little cheaper.

[Korpsy Knievel]

So would you rather get a name-brand item on sale or a generic brand item at the regular price? The former is a little better and the latter is a little cheaper.

Brand name items aren't always better than their generic equivalents.

[stray]

What do you think of money and how is that type-related?

Money is gamma which is why we have so many beta ST rappers counting stacks of $100s in their videos and draping their bejeweled selves across the fine leather seats of their million-dollar cars.

Yeah, but that's all toy/play money, temporarily and/or conditionally given to these guys so they can appeal more to the huddled Gamma masses.

The life of a Beta ST MC is short, in actuality.

[Cat King Cole]

So would you rather get a name-brand item on sale or a generic brand item at the regular price? The former is a little better and the latter is a little cheaper.

Some brands produce things in materials or styles I like. For shirts, I really love Reserve and Giordano's loose-fitting tees, just because the cotton is irresistably soft.

[silke]

What do you think of money and how is that type-related?

I generally don't think of money much. Imho money itselt isn't related to type, but what it represents - power, prestige, validation of individual's competence, freedom to determine one's destiny and set one's lifestyle - may very well be.

I haven't yet encountered any studies that would link desire for money to Socionics types. There is, however, an income study for MBTI types. The following numbers were polled across a sample of 6,000 individuals. Dominant and auxiliary functions for each type are listed in brackets, since MBTI types aren't same as socionics.

Average Annual Household Income
1. ENTJ (84,434) (Te-Ni)
2. ESTJ (76,238) (Te-Si)
3. ESFJ (74,882) (Fe-Si)
4. INTJ (72,043) (Ni-Te)
5. ENFJ (71,060) (Fe-Ni)
6. ISTJ (71,020) (Si-Te)
7. ESTP (69,323) (Se-Ti)
8. ISTP (67,349) (Ti-Se)
9. ENFP (66,210) (Ne-Fi)
10. INTP (64,872) (Ti-Ne)
11. INFJ (64,372) (Ni-Fe)
12. ISFP (64,166) (Fi-Se)
13. ISFJ (63,870) (Si-Fe)
14. ESFP (63,281) (Se-Fi)
15. ENTP (62,960) (Ne-Ti)
16. INFP (61,565) (Fi-Ne)

In MBTI the EJs and Te dominant/auxiliary are all represented among the top 6.

[MisterNi]

Average Annual Household Income
1. ENTJ (84,434) (Te-Ni)
2. ESTJ (76,238) (Te-Si)
3. ESFJ (74,882) (Fe-Si)
4. INTJ (72,043) (Ni-Te)
5. ENFJ (71,060) (Fe-Ni)
6. ISTJ (71,020) (Si-Te)
7. ESTP (69,323) (Se-Ti)
8. ISTP (67,349) (Ti-Se)
9. ENFP (66,210) (Ne-Fi)
10. INTP (64,872) (Ti-Ne)
11. INFJ (64,372) (Ni-Fe)
12. ISFP (64,166) (Fi-Se)
13. ISFJ (63,870) (Si-Fe)
14. ESFP (63,281) (Se-Fi)
15. ENTP (62,960) (Ne-Ti)
16. INFP (61,565) (Fi-Ne)

In MBTI the EJs and Te dominant/auxiliary are all represented among the top 6.

Yeah, I remember seeing that from an MBTI site that does corporate consulting. So I'd gather that those numbers are from people working in corporate type jobs where Te and the EJ temperaments are naturally favored and probably considered more valuable than say Ti and IP temperaments. After all, working in a corporation favors conforming to rules/standards and dedication moreso than talent or intelligence although they're not mutually exclusive of course.

[FDG]

Well, remember that an ENTJ in MBTI is also much more a typical corporate hardass than how an ENTJ is described in socionics. So it's almost tautological to have ENTJs as being the group which earns the most on average.

[Absurd]

I think she's just trying to say that Delta is the most intelligent quadra, which obviously you don't grasp.

Polikujm, I think you're right. I mean I can't disagree only agree.

[DirectorAbbie]

So would you rather get a name-brand item on sale or a generic brand item at the regular price? The former is a little better and the latter is a little cheaper.

Brand name items aren't always better than their generic equivalents.

That's why I specified that they are in this case.

[wacey]

I'm probably the only one here who lived in a Kaczynski-style shack in the woods.

Nope, not the only one.

[Kill4Me]

this thread has turned into a pipe-bomb measuring contest...hehehe

[Adam Strange]

I think of money in two ways.

One, when I don't have enough of it, I think that money is something that I absolutely have to get more of. Priority #1. This mindset usually only kicks in when I'm not going to be able to pay my bills, which has happened to me from time to time.

Two, when I have enough money to coast on for a while, I think of money as part of a game, like Monopoly money, only even less important than it is in Monopoly. This "game" mindset inadvertently brings in more money, when I'm playing for money.

Compared to other types, I think I look at money slightly differently from them, but I can't exactly explain what the differences are.

Here is an example.

During the local University's football games, I park sports-fan's cars in my yard. I can park about 36 cars in the front yard, and the only question is, How much should I charge to maximize my return? Charge too little, and you leave money in the buyer's pockets. Charge too much, and no one buys a parking space. The price of a space changes dynamically in the hours before a game, depending on the popularity of the teams, the weather, the economy, the time of day, how fast people are buying spaces, how full the yard is, etc. I like to sell every space, and I usually do, but not always at the price I'd like to charge.

The woman across the street watched me selling spaces, and asked me to sell the spaces in her yard, too, while she went to teach music lessons, and she offered to split the income with me. I said fine, and she made $120 with zero effort.

Today, she decided to sell the spaces herself so she could get all the income, which I think is a great idea. I think she is either LSI or SEI, probably the former, but is not sx-first and is more interested in music recitals than in money. So she made herself a sign (parking, $40) and stood outside (in pouring rain - the weather was horrible), and in four hours, she sold one space.

My yard filled up about an hour before the game started (indicating that my prices today were too low - live and learn), so I decided to go over and help her sell the rest of her spaces. We got nothing for a while, then some students in a car offered $25, and she took the offer. I thought, OK, it's close to game time and the people looking for spaces now are not great advance planners and so are probably poor, but let's not lowball ourselves. Then two cars came in and I sold them for $40 each and gave her the money. Then nothing for about twenty minutes. It was very discouraging.
She was getting cold and soaked in the pouring rain and said "I think I'll just go inside", and I said "OK, I'm going to stay out here and try to get some other cars into those spaces," and I realized at that point that I was treating this as a game. "How many marks can I sell parking spaces to?" The money doesn't matter at all, just the number of sales I can make.
Instead of going inside, she started talking about her music recitals, and I was talking about how much my investments lost last month, and I think she was kind of revolted at my mercenary attitude, but we stood there and sure enough, a bunch of cars came by and we filled her yard with cars in a total of 40 minutes.

I think the difference between our parking abilities lay in the difference in our attitudes. When I first walked over to her yard in the rain, she was grasping her sign in front of her and was hunched over it, as if to say, "I'm poor and have been abandoned. Please help." I immediately stepped into the road in front of her and started waving my arms at the oncoming cars, saying "Park here! Get in here, you fools. This is the best spot and your last chance", and when they'd pull in, I'd make them move their cars slightly. "Come closer to the sidewalk! Move up further!" and "Do you have the money? I need to park more cars and can't wait around here." I think this approach gives the drivers some clarity, something to grab onto. They are often in a strange place, a strange city, and they don't know the rules, and so giving them some clear directions is exactly what they need to feel more certain about themselves. Even if what they are feeling is a hostile reaction to me. Which actually helps in negotiating the price of the parking spot. "No, I'm not taking $30. Do you see those cars behind you? I can sell this spot to any five of them." Lol.

In any case, she sucked at selling herself but gets five stars for effort and for being fun to work with. I think she'll be better at it next time. I also, really, think that she now looks down on me for being an unrefined, mercenary brute. Which is OK. We can't all be good at music.

*EDIT*
I think I should add that these football escapades are just done for fun. I get the biggest kick out of interacting with football fans and negotiating prices and watching them get drunk and talking to the Se women. It is just great. It is night and day compared to my regular job, which is where I make my real money. But my job as Parking Lot Attendant is loads of fun.

[Sol]

material property is Se region
ENTJ have it among values, but weak functions. So they are lesser attached to this wish, lesser think about this. In LIE/ESI pair they may get regular "kicks" to improve the income, - this motivates them.

The mentioned LSE as Si type have an interest to money in the degree those are needed for physical comfort and basic needs. It's not common for them to wish more money "just to have" or for long time tasks. Si types are lesser greedy, lesser tend to keep and gather money, and lesser agree to sacrifice own comfort to get more income. Mainly they agree to do a lot to achieve the stable income for basic family needs or average level in a society. Then the progress may happen by other motivations as higher skills and hence better offers, geting of higher posts, etc.

Scrooge McDuck - fits more to LSI

[Adam Strange]

I’ve been thinking recently about the way that LIE’s approach work. I know about 24 LIE’s in real life, and they all fall on a continuum that is essentially defined as “get money”, but varies in how that is accomplished.

The youngest and/or least successful LIE’s have jobs working for a paycheck which is provided by someone else. These jobs tend to be in technical areas if the LIE is LIE-Te, and in financial areas if the LIE is LIE-Ni.

The most successful LIE’s still technically work for someone else, but their approach is slightly different from that of a wage-slave. Instead of applying for a job, they sell some money-making scheme to minority share investors and then work to make a profit for the company. Which, in fact, is not different in kind from having a job. It’s just a job that you expect to sell to someone else at some point. Preferably when the product (the business) is perceived as being most valuable.

Then, after the product is sold, the LIE kicks back and starts looking for the next thing they want to do. The next “job”, that is.

[Tarnished]

I’ve been thinking recently about the way that LIE’s approach work. I know about 24 LIE’s in real life, and they all fall on a continuum that is essentially defined as “get money”, but varies in how that is accomplished.

The youngest and/or least successful LIE’s have jobs working for a paycheck which is provided by someone else. These jobs tend to be in technical areas if the LIE is LIE-Te, and in financial areas if the LIE is LIE-Ni.

The most successful LIE’s still technically work for someone else, but their approach is slightly different from that of a wage-slave. Instead of applying for a job, they sell some money-making scheme to minority share investors and then work to make a profit for the company. Which, in fact, is not different in kind from having a job. It’s just a job that you expect to sell to someone else at some point. Preferably when the product (the business) is perceived as being most valuable.

Then, after the product is sold, the LIE kicks back and starts looking for the next thing they want to do. The next “job”, that is.

Te-Se : Always seek to solve problems in the material world, make things better, more profitable in the long term (Ni), and sharpen their skills through those activities. Very similar to a "Conqueror", always seek new challenges to conquer it. Money, profit, achievements is proofs to prove their capability (Se need to see real things with their own eyes to prove their worth and have the feeling that they are improving in something).

I know socionics call SLE "The Conqueror", but I think LIE fit it better. Se dom people are more like "adventurer"...

LIIs, LIEs's shadow have the same desire for problem-solving. But they care more about making theories, understanding how things work is more important than actually get-the-shit-done.


About LSE, they also seek to solve problem, but in a more slower pace (Si), and may take their time to think about the possibilities to solve a problem (Ne). So they won't jump from one problem to another like LIE.