Goals: Type-Related?

[DirectorAbbie]

My IEE dad thinks it's impossible to survive without goals. An IEE in the chatbox agrees that goals are the only way she accomplishes anything.

If I set long-term goals, I would drive myself crazy and become a workaholic. I focus on supplying myself with possibilities. The more I accomplish, the more possibilities I open up. Like if I fold a bunch of origami pieces. The more pieces I have, the more options I have for building quality or quantity.

Brilliand links goals with risk. For example, he needs to do laundry. He can't stop halfway, because then he won't be able to wear his clothes clean or dirty. Finishing doing laundry is a goal.

LII's definition of a goal: an assignment. All or nothing.

IEE's definition of a goal: an intended life achievement.

LSE's definition of a goal: something I will purposely attain.

[717495]

Uhm, hmm well doing laundry is definitely not what I would call an intended life achievement.

[woofwoofl]

My IEE dad thinks it's impossible to survive without goals. An IEE in the chatbox agrees that goals are the only way she accomplishes anything.

I can see that

I make goals, I suppose I make a large amount of goals, some general, some specific, with a lot of more specific mini-goals working their way up to the master goal(s), which have a lot of wiggle room in them in case something falls apart...

If I set long-term goals, I would drive myself crazy and become a workaholic. I focus on supplying myself with possibilities. The more I accomplish, the more possibilities I open up. Like if I fold a bunch of origami pieces. The more pieces I have, the more options I have for building quality or quantity.

I make long-term goals kinda, but they're a lot more vague and hazy than what most people think of when the term "long-term goal" is mentioned... and as for decisions, making decisions isn't hard for me at all - it's figuring out when and where to solidify my decisions that's a little bit trickier (but still not too hard)...

Brilliand links goals with risk. For example, he needs to do laundry. He can't stop halfway, because then he won't be able to wear his clothes clean or dirty. Finishing doing laundry is a goal.

All or nothing, I suppose?

I like the idea of "risk", but I leave a sort of fudge factor into my goals - if Plan A collapses, which usually happens, then I have a Plan B and a Plan C lined up, ready to pick up the slack...

As far as laundry goes, if worst comes to worst, I have a few older pairs of JNCOs and beat-up heavy metal shirts that are serviceable, as well as a pair of dress pants with a white shirt and tie... I'll never go "all in" for clothes...

Even if I'm on a car ride that's a far one, I'll bring back up food - a large container full of raw oats, as well as some walnuts and/or almonds...

LII's definition of a goal: an assignment. All or nothing.

IEE's definition of a goal: an intended life achievement.

LSE's definition of a goal: something I will purposely attain.

My goal making methods are a bit hard to sum up, the goals themselves are very rigid, once I decide what they are, but I'll have so many potential ways of getting to each one - a lot of throwing everything at the wall at times...

[ashlesha]

i need to break long-term goals into smaller chunks in order to make them manageable and i think my TeSi seeking can manifest in this way because i love when people are able to point out how to do that. goals that aren't broken up that way seem kind of impossible and i don't like the whole "grand vision in the distance" thing, it just stresses me out completely - i want to know what i should do now. i usually have something in my mind that i want but whether i have a concrete plan or its just an idea of "that would be nice, i'll think about it and position myself" varies basically by how pressing it is, how much i feel that i really need it. i wouldn't describe myself as goal-oriented, though. i like having a purpose but i also don't like putting pressure on myself over things i don't really have to.

[anndelise]

I don't think having goals is type-related.
There might be something to the types of goals, however. But I doubt it.

Remember, a number of cultures teach goal setting activities to even small children.

Also, it's easy to talk about goals, even to plan them out...following through is a different story altogether. So just because a person talks about their goals, it doesn't mean that they actually pursue them, or are successful with them.

For myself, after trying..and failing...at various goal setting strategies, I've found that I do better if I regularly cycle through the same desired activities, can work on a goal as the mood hits, and that I do better if I'm thinking in terms of 'next step' rather than 'end result'.

I do like to feel that bit of oomph that comes from having accomplished something, no matter how small that something is. So I'll often have a list of next steps for various projects of mine, and then pick one to do as the mood strikes. That little oomph gives me a little more energy, which often leads to picking another next step...not always on the same project, though.

If I don't accomplish a big goal (one with lots of next steps), I don't feel bad about it (unless it involved another person). And if the end goal changes, that's ok too.

I suck at maintaining anything, particularly energy levels. In an effort to work with that, I've recently started working on an idea of doing a 'work' step, followed by an 'enjoy' step, and cycling through those. So far, I'm getting a little more done each day than I was before. And enjoying each day a little more too. (also less guilt about not getting things done..AND less frustration about not having any fun)

[woofwoofl]

I don't think having goals is type-related.
There might be something to the types of goals, however. But I doubt it.

Remember, a number of cultures teach goal setting activities to even small children.

Also, it's easy to talk about goals, even to plan them out...following through is a different story altogether. So just because a person talks about their goals, it doesn't mean that they actually pursue them, or are successful with them.

For myself, after trying..and failing...at various goal setting strategies, I've found that I do better if I regularly cycle through the same desired activities, can work on a goal as the mood hits, and that I do better if I'm thinking in terms of 'next step' rather than 'end result'.

I do like to feel that bit of oomph that comes from having accomplished something, no matter how small that something is. So I'll often have a list of next steps for various projects of mine, and then pick one to do as the mood strikes. That little oomph gives me a little more energy, which often leads to picking another next step...not always on the same project, though.

If I don't accomplish a big goal (one with lots of next steps), I don't feel bad about it (unless it involved another person). And if the end goal changes, that's ok too.

I suck at maintaining anything, particularly energy levels. In an effort to work with that, I've recently started working on an idea of doing a 'work' step, followed by an 'enjoy' step, and cycling through those. So far, I'm getting a little more done each day than I was before. And enjoying each day a little more too. (also less guilt about not getting things done..AND less frustration about not having any fun)

The presence of goals themselves might not be a massive issue as far as types go, but the way those goals are managed is very type related, as far as I can tell...

Your method of getting things done effectively with having end goals that are more flexible and undetermined than your methods of reaching them strikes me as Tactical

I also noticed me and laghlagh had a similar thing with making smaller goals while keeping the long-term stuff more flexible, though if I read correctly, the end goals are more concrete in both cases than the specific way forward to reach them - Strategic!

[Marie84]

maybe IEE's can chime in on this, but I haven't noticed any of the Ne dominants I've known personally to be like this. I've found that they tend to get excited about things but they don't always follow through on them, like something sounds like a good idea at the time but the idea rarely comes into fruition.
For instance I have on IEE friend who wanted to open a candy store, even went into great detail on where to run it and how it would be run, and than about a month later got excited about being a tour guide, he actually stuck to the later (for now ) but god knows when or if he'll even stick with that.
My ILE mothers the same way; went through almost a dozen different careers and positions just when I was growing up, there were more prior. She always gets bored of them after some time and than gets excited about something else

Not to say I don't think they're Ne dominants who have goals and aren't satisfied with what they're doing, or going to do, it just makes sense to me why they'd generally be less concerned about making them a priority in their life over the desire to have freedom with novelty and the potentialities in life. I'd think if they did have that type of desire to do something specific it'd be because it brings them a lot of pleasure when they're doing it, rather than wanting the results of it (like money, status, power, expectations of others, etc)

I don't think having goals is type-related.
There might be something to the types of goals, however. But I doubt it.

Remember, a number of cultures teach goal setting activities to even small children.

Also, it's easy to talk about goals, even to plan them out...following through is a different story altogether. So just because a person talks about their goals, it doesn't mean that they actually pursue them, or are successful with them.

For myself, after trying..and failing...at various goal setting strategies, I've found that I do better if I regularly cycle through the same desired activities, can work on a goal as the mood hits, and that I do better if I'm thinking in terms of 'next step' rather than 'end result'.

I do like to feel that bit of oomph that comes from having accomplished something, no matter how small that something is. So I'll often have a list of next steps for various projects of mine, and then pick one to do as the mood strikes. That little oomph gives me a little more energy, which often leads to picking another next step...not always on the same project, though.

If I don't accomplish a big goal (one with lots of next steps), I don't feel bad about it (unless it involved another person). And if the end goal changes, that's ok too.

I suck at maintaining anything, particularly energy levels. In an effort to work with that, I've recently started working on an idea of doing a 'work' step, followed by an 'enjoy' step, and cycling through those. So far, I'm getting a little more done each day than I was before. And enjoying each day a little more too. (also less guilt about not getting things done..AND less frustration about not having any fun)

didn't read this before I posted; this is kind of what I expected from IEE, and somewhat wrote about. It's this sense of openness to things changing, or outright wanting novelty

[anndelise]

The presence of goals themselves might not be a massive issue as far as types go, but the way those goals are managed is very type related, as far as I can tell...

Your method of getting things done effectively with having end goals that are more flexible and undetermined than your methods of reaching them strikes me as Tactical

I can see where this might be true, but on the other hand, in my case, I don't know that I would have started focusing on 'next steps' if I hadn't read about it. I'd only read about it 2, maybe 3 years ago.

But then, in my case, I have a difficult time determining if the goal and achievement thing is due to a personal type, or due to the mood/personality issues I deal with.

But then...my difficulties with goals and energy maintenance, etc is part of why I got the psych labels I've got. Most of the so-called therapy which I kept failing on dealt with trying to get me to be more concrete with the end-goal, with the steps, adding in time schedules, etc.

Learning about socionics' NeFi helped relieve alot of the tension and guilt I felt for not beng what the therapists kept trying to get me to become. Add in learning about the 'next steps', and there's now even less tension/guilt/stress about it all.

However, there's still frustration at feeling as if I've never accomplished anything useful/good....which (combined with imminent physical health problems) led to a very recent and still ongoing midlife crisis. So, in this case, I'd fit in with the OP's lack of life achievement.

Long story short....Please don't take my comments on this topic as being representative of other IEEs. (Though I'd love to see what other NeFi have to say about it.)

[Slacker]

I don't know if this is type related, or completely type related. We've talked about goals before - there was a long thread a couple of years ago but I don't know how easy it would be to find - and I said that I live without goals. I still live without goals. I really have none.

[anndelise]

maybe IEE's can chime in on this, but I haven't noticed any of the Ne dominants I've known personally to be like this. I've found that they tend to get excited about things but they don't always follow through on them, like something sounds like a good idea at the time but the idea rarely comes into fruition.
For instance I have on IEE friend who wanted to open a candy store, even went into great detail on where to run it and how it would be run, and than about a month later got excited about being a tour guide, he actually stuck to the later (for now ) but god knows when or if he'll even stick with that.
My ILE mothers the same way; went through almost a dozen different careers and positions just when I was growing up, there were more prior. She always gets bored of them after some time and than gets excited about something else

This is exactly how I used to be...still am.
But I've been made to feel guilt about being this way, as well as it being one of the reasons for a 'disorder' label. (not adhd, though I know of at least one NeFi who was medicated for adhd simply for doing the above.)

Not to say I don't think they're Ne dominants who have goals and aren't satisfied with what they're doing, or going to do, it just makes sense to me why they'd generally be less concerned about making them a priority in their life over the desire to have freedom with novelty and the potentialities in life. I'd think if they did have that type of desire to do something specific it'd be because it brings them a lot of pleasure when they're doing it, rather than wanting the results of it (like money, status, power, expectations of others, etc)

But they still have to deal with cultural/social expectations and demands. In the usa, female Ne dominants are allowed more leniency when doing this, particularly if they are able to find a male supporter. However, male Ne dominants doing the exact same things are often looked down on.

Also, constantly switching jobs, etc, makes it gradually more difficult to get a job later, unless the person already knew to take on jobs that would allow him/her to switch easily, and without raised eyebrows. Otherwise, this approach eventually cuts into his/her later freedom and ability to explore. Especially after a family's been created. (At which point there is now all sorts of needs for money, possibly status/power, and plenty of expectations and demands from loved ones, etc.)

didn't read this before I posted; this is kind of what I expected from IEE, and somewhat wrote about. It's this sense of openness to things changing, or outright wanting novelty

I guess, overall, the problem I see with combining the ideas of goals and types, is if one is trying to type another person based on their goals or approaches to goals. A lot of goal making and pursuing is taught, even in grade schools. A lot of methods are learned later in life, and for some people, not at all, even though they could've used it.

Culture tells us what we should be wanting, and judges us based on whether we are at least trying to achieve those ideals or not. Normally this culture can be ignored...except when dealing with other people from the same culture...who've been taught that they are supposed to have the same ideals.

This leaves us open to pursuing incompatible ideals earlier in life (after all those years of family and school acculturation).

Or being pressured later in life by created family to pursue those ideals/needs.

This incompatibility can cause a lot of internal strife for a person. Most of which the average typer would never see/notice....but would likely influence the typing process.

[Simon Ssmall]

I live a carefree life, I couldn't care less about goals. Most I set to myself I dont follow anyway.

[Slacker]

Likewise.

Happy to me is endless options, and goals kinda get in the way of that.

ENDLESS OPTIONS !! yes yes

[Slacker]

My IEE dad thinks it's impossible to survive without goals. An IEE in the chatbox agrees that goals are the only way she accomplishes anything.

If I set long-term goals, I would drive myself crazy and become a workaholic. I focus on supplying myself with possibilities. The more I accomplish, the more possibilities I open up. Like if I fold a bunch of origami pieces. The more pieces I have, the more options I have for building quality or quantity.

Brilliand links goals with risk. For example, he needs to do laundry. He can't stop halfway, because then he won't be able to wear his clothes clean or dirty. Finishing doing laundry is a goal.

LII's definition of a goal: an assignment. All or nothing.

IEE's definition of a goal: an intended life achievement.

LSE's definition of a goal: something I will purposely attain.

There's much discussion in chat about what your dad means by goals, and if it's the same as you have written, "an intended life achievement." We IEEs in chat don't have goals of that nature and we are wondering if you have misinterpreted him and if he's talking about something else, or if he specifically said those are the kinds of goals that are important to him.

I think it might be NTR -your dad has great responsibilities and therefore might feel a need to set goals for that reason rather than due to his type.

[woofwoofl]

I can see where this might be true, but on the other hand, in my case, I don't know that I would have started focusing on 'next steps' if I hadn't read about it. I'd only read about it 2, maybe 3 years ago.

But then, in my case, I have a difficult time determining if the goal and achievement thing is due to a personal type, or due to the mood/personality issues I deal with.

But then...my difficulties with goals and energy maintenance, etc is part of why I got the psych labels I've got. Most of the so-called therapy which I kept failing on dealt with trying to get me to be more concrete with the end-goal, with the steps, adding in time schedules, etc.

Learning about socionics' NeFi helped relieve alot of the tension and guilt I felt for not beng what the therapists kept trying to get me to become. Add in learning about the 'next steps', and there's now even less tension/guilt/stress about it all.

However, there's still frustration at feeling as if I've never accomplished anything useful/good....which (combined with imminent physical health problems) led to a very recent and still ongoing midlife crisis. So, in this case, I'd fit in with the OP's lack of life achievement.

Long story short....Please don't take my comments on this topic as being representative of other IEEs. (Though I'd love to see what other NeFi have to say about it.)

The whole idea of being concrete with the end goal is probably what made you so turned off with goal setting in the first place, and I'm glad you found out, through Socionics, that there's a more effective way for you, specifically, to handle things

As far as achievements go? I suppose, if nothing else, being yourself is a solid achievement - lots of people are certainly glad for it, and it's a thing no one else can ever do... I hit a bit of a rut myself, mostly due to me doing things that were more difficult than productive (and confusing the two with each other), which is a nasty trap to fall in to...

And looking from the other IEEs here, as well as other dominants here, for that matter, I see this same sort of openness with end goals, and an affinity for possibilities (same with Director Abbie too)... I could never do that, I want to nail down as many decisions and goals as possible, and do so in the optimum order, so I can move on to the next ones and so on and so forth... I have plans that are on the back burner because I need to enact other plans to get those ones to fire off correctly...

[DirectorAbbie]

With the IEEs alone, we have conflicting views. Could still be enneagram-related.

[Creepy-Snaps]

Se- following through with goals.
Si- following through with ideas.
Ne- being excited about ideas.
Ni- being excited about goals.

[pianosinger]

If I set long-term goals, I would drive myself crazy and become a workaholic. I focus on supplying myself with possibilities. The more I accomplish, the more possibilities I open up.

Definitely emphasizing Ne over Ni. I am like this, too. Providing myself with possibilities for my future is much more important to me than setting a long-term goal and pouring all my time and energy into achieving it, to the exclusion of everything else I could be doing/enjoying. What if I somehow failed in my goal? If that was the only option I had kept open to me, I would be in real trouble at the end. But if I keep myself open to at least 2 or 3 possible futures, I'm much more likely to find myself pleased and happy at the end when I manage to more or less achieve what I set out for.

Good enough is good enough.