Beta Appreciation Thread

[DirectorAbbie]

Because without the Beta quadra, socionics wouldn't make much sense.

[Quaris]

When I think beta, I think of a badass with a leather jacket and elvis haircut.

[discojoe]

The problem with Beta is that we're all basically sociopaths.

[Ananzi]

We are not sociopaths, we are warriors and poets. We are the rage and angst, and we are the color in an otherwise drab universe.. it is We who paint the town red.... yeah sometimes.. it's with the blood of our enemies, but you gotta get the color someplace.

And admit it.. we're so much cooler than a Delta

[discojoe]

We are not sociopaths, we are warriors and poets. We are the rage and angst, and we are the color in an otherwise drab universe.. it is We who paint the town red.... yeah sometimes.. it's with the blood of our enemies, but you gotta get the color someplace.

And admit it.. we're so much cooler than a Delta

I understand that we're the ones who create meaning, etc.. The problem is that it's too easy for us to get swept away by rhetorical grandiloquence.

Look at Donald Trump. My initial reaction was "Hell yeah!" But I've taught myself to always assume that those in power are lying, so I spent hours Googling him, learning about his personality, past controversies, his political positions and their consistency over the years. That shrewdness brought me to the conclusion that was a joke candidate with shape shifting political views, shady business practices, and basically no credibility whatsoever.

How many other Betas do that? Three? The only reason I am able to think in this way is because I went to a private school that taught me how to think instead of what to think. That engendered in me a sense of curiosity that led me to the economics section of Barnes & Noble, so that I could make an informed judgment of all these glittery economy related words and promises being spouted by McCain and Obama. So when you place the quadra of action and passion into an environment that excludes these types of objective considerations, they're going to become psychopathic barbarians waiting to tear down the gates. Our natural thought processes just aren't concerned with digging up facts and weighing them from a cause-and-effect standpoint.

To make matters worse, what I did learn in private school was taught in a Te fashion. I'm able to do fine in such an environment because I understand Te fine and can take a paragraph of Te sleeping aid and extract the principle from it. Beta ethicals would always argue and get offended at these things because they didn't grasp them as they were being presented. I recently had a debate on Facebook with one of my old high school teachers, a staunch liberal brimming with all the typical fallacies and falsehoods that liberals tend to have about important things, such as the economy, history, etc. Anyway, we had a debate about the causes of the recent recession, and I was actually able to convert her, all because I explained my position in a Ti manner. Beta's don't get this at school.

So I think Betas major difficulty is that they're just not exposed to the proper presentation of important subjects. This creates a vacuum in their heads that liberal politicians - who are generally much more articulate than their conservative counterparts - are more than happy to feed a never-ending cascade of pretty sounding words and emotionally appealing rhetoric.

Don't know why I wrote all that. Anyway, bye.

[squark]

Just a comment. I pay no attention to politics, don't watch TV, etc. and when someone mentioned Trump to me, I said, "He's just an opportunist." It doesn't take massive research to know what someone is. Buying bullshit isn't a beta trait, and not buying it isn't limited to those who went to private schools and do a lot of research.

[Ananzi]

Discojoe.. I've read a lot of your posts now, enough to form a fairly decent idea of who you are. If you are an LSI, you are a very unhealthy one.

And Frankly, I'm not sure what Donald Trump's political ambitions (or your own schooling for that matter) have to do with what I posted. Go hijack someplace else to get your attention fix.

And Joy.. please don't jump on this thread as a way to feed your ego either.. you're not any healthier.

Now.. back to topic.

[discojoe]

If you are an LSI, you are a very unhealthy one.

Hmm. Let's employ some deductive logic.

1. The only people who say I am unhealthy are those who haven't interacted with me outside of the forum.
   
2. The overwhelming consensus among those that have done so is that I am not unhealthy.

So from this we can conclude that you are almost certainly wrong. And that's funny as hell, because immediately prior to making your unfounded accusation, you said the following:

Discojoe.. I've read a lot of your posts now, enough to form a fairly decent idea of who you are.

You say that your exposure to my posts has rendered you an accurate overview of my personality. However, I have already refuted what is probably a key conclusion derived from your observations - namely, that I am unhealthy. So not only is your premise inaccurate, but also the conclusion at which you thereby arrived.

So twice now we have effortlessly discredited your amateurish allegations. Too easy. No fun.

And Frankly, I'm not sure what Donald Trump's political ambitions (or your own schooling for that matter) have to do with what I posted. Go hijack someplace else to get your attention fix.

The topic title is ambiguous and by its very nature attracts posts that you may find aggravating.

Finally, do not presume to lecture me on a subject that I have been studying for eight years and about which in all likelihood I know far, far more than you.

[discojoe]

Just a comment. I pay no attention to politics, don't watch TV, etc. and when someone mentioned Trump to me, I said, "He's just an opportunist." It doesn't take massive research to know what someone is. Buying bullshit isn't a beta trait, and not buying it isn't limited to those who went to private schools and do a lot of research.

Forest for the trees.

[squark]

Forest for the trees.

yeah yeah. trees are still there.

[discojoe]

yeah yeah. trees are still there.

Which is irrelevant. Saying the trees matter is like refusing to consider a hypothetical situation on the grounds that its premises aren't realistic.

For example:

discojoe: Here, listen to this. Say you and your friends are on a desert island, and then one of y-

squark: But I wouldn't be on a desert island.

discojoe: ....

[squark]

Which is irrelevant. Saying the trees matter is like refusing to consider a hypothetical situation on the grounds that its premises aren't realistic.

For example:

discojoe: Here, listen to this. Say you and your friends are on a desert island, and then one of y-

squark: But I wouldn't be on a desert island.

discojoe: ....

Not irrelevant if you're claiming an oak forest when all the trees in sight are pine. Yes, I get the gist of what you're saying, but I don't agree. I don't think betas are lacking in the ability for critical thought, nor do I think "thinking in Te" is a requirement of it.

[Beautiful sky]

Which is irrelevant. Saying the trees matter is like refusing to consider a hypothetical situation on the grounds that its premises aren't realistic.

For example:

discojoe: Here, listen to this. Say you and your friends are on a desert island, and then one of y-

squark: But I wouldn't be on a desert island.

discojoe: ....

DJ seems to be into semantics.

[glam]

The problem with Beta is that we're all basically sociopaths.

blah don't conflate yourself/the Betas you might know with all of Beta please.

[discojoe]

Not irrelevant if you're claiming an oak forest when all the trees in sight are pine.

Okay, yeah, if you want to attack my premises, then fine.

But this:

Yes, I get the gist of what you're saying, but I don't agree. I don't think betas are lacking in the ability for critical thought, nor do I think "thinking in Te" is a requirement of it.

is a straw man.

blah don't conflate yourself/the Betas you might know with all of Beta please.

Blah too late.

[Absurd]

[Ozz]

Because without the Beta quadra, socionics wouldn't make much sense.

We Beta create contrast with you Delta folks.

[glam]

Blah too late.

well, you're wrong.

[discojoe]

well, you're wrong.

Well, your mom's a whore.

[squark]

But this:

I don't think betas are lacking in the ability for critical thought, nor do I think "thinking in Te" is a requirement of it.

is a straw man.

Except that it's not.

Our natural thought processes just aren't concerned with digging up facts and weighing them from a cause-and-effect standpoint. . . So I think Betas major difficulty is that they're just not exposed to the proper presentation of important subjects. This creates a vacuum in their heads that liberal politicians - who are generally much more articulate than their conservative counterparts - are more than happy to feed a never-ending cascade of pretty sounding words and emotionally appealing rhetoric.

Implies a natural lack of critical thinking. I don't agree. Not any more prone to that than any other quadra. Although you didn't label it a "lack of critical thinking" that's what you're describing. So, not a straw man.

[discojoe]

Except that it's not.

Implies a natural lack of critical thinking. I don't agree. Not any more prone to that than any other quadra. Although you didn't label it a "lack of critical thinking" that's what you're describing. So, not a straw man.

It in no way implies a lack of critical thinking ability. What the fuck.

[Lotus]

i appreciate beta for being the least awkward to talk to

[glam]

Well, your mom's a whore.

wrong again

[squark]

It in no way implies a lack of critical thinking ability. What the fuck.

gargle agar gar ga gal. Look:

But I've taught myself to always assume that those in power are lying, so I spent hours Googling him, learning about his personality, past controversies, his political positions and their consistency over the years. That shrewdness brought me to the conclusion that was a joke candidate with shape shifting political views, shady business practices, and basically no credibility whatsoever.

How many other Betas do that? Three? The only reason I am able to think in this way is because I went to a private school that taught me how to think instead of what to think.

Think about what critical thinking is and how it applies in this scenario.

Now look at the other parts I quoted earlier. You're suggesting that betas just rush into things emotionally without checking their validity, that you are unique in being able to sort bullshit from truth, and that information is inaccessible to the average beta because it's in "Te" form. Again, what is that saying?

There are a lot of people who swallow whatever they hear, but they're not limited to, or primarily in beta. And there are people who are willing to think, to sort out truth from fiction, and can comprehend without needing an interpretor, both in beta and without.

There is a tendency when emotionally stirred for people to dive in and do something without thought, yes, and quite likely more prevalent in beta, but in the situations you refer to, there is SOO much time and opportunity to take a step back and consider that it's unlikely to keep any person going on just emotion unless they purposely shut off their brains. A pretty speech only fools those who wish to be fooled.

[rat1]

Implies a natural lack of critical thinking. I don't agree. Not any more prone to that than any other quadra. Although you didn't label it a "lack of critical thinking" that's what you're describing. So, not a straw man.

No, it really doesn't. Naturally people aren't prone to digging up facts which are irrelevant to their own lives. I can think fine when confronted with a problem. But why am I going to pour through information on political candidates when I don't give a shit enough? The whole modern society is mentally specialized like that. It's not about critical thinking or some godly mental powers. You cannot critically think about something you know nothing about. You have to rely on people like DJ who do spend the time digging through the internet. You have to read what they say, appreciate you don't know shit about it, and if you find what he says to be truthful.. act on it. Otherwise just don't vote. There's no reason you have to have an opinion on everything. See I think that's the real problem with Beta NFs is they feel like they have to always have an opinion and know everything. They don't acknowledge and just accept what they do not know. And you're demonstrating that right here. It's a good thing if it drives you to find out more but it can also make you behave like a dumbass.

[squark]

No, it really doesn't. Naturally people aren't prone to digging up facts which are irrelevant to their own lives. I can think fine when confronted with a problem. But why am I going to pour through information on political candidates when I don't give a shit enough? The whole modern society is mentally specialized like that. It's not about critical thinking or some godly mental powers. You cannot critically think about something you know nothing about. You have to rely on people like DJ who do spend the time digging through the internet. You have to read what they say, appreciate you don't know shit about it, and if you find what he says to be truthful.. act on it. Otherwise just don't vote. There's no reason you have to have an opinion on everything. See I think that's the real problem with Beta NFs is they feel like they have to always have an opinion and know everything. They don't acknowledge and just accept what they do not know. And you're demonstrating that right here. It's a good thing if it drives you to find out more but it can also make you behave like a dumbass.

I'm not a beta NF. I'm an LSI. And my other post should explain well enough what I was saying.

[discojoe]

Now look at the other parts I quoted earlier. You're suggesting that betas just rush into things emotionally without checking their validity, that you are unique in being able to sort bullshit from truth, and that information is inaccessible to the average beta because it's in "Te" form. Again, what is that saying?

I think non-Te types - especially the ethicals - will tend to either shun or fail to grasp information that is transmitted via Te. I'm not saying Betas are stupid, I'm saying that our society happens to favor Te and that it would be beneficial if there were some way to accommodate everyone.

There are a lot of people who swallow whatever they hear, but they're not limited to, or primarily in beta. And there are people who are willing to think, to sort out truth from fiction, and can comprehend without needing an interpretor, both in beta and without.

Stop insulting my intelligence.

There is a tendency when emotionally stirred for people to dive in and do something without thought, yes, and quite likely more prevalent in beta, but in the situations you refer to, there is SOO much time and opportunity to take a step back and consider that it's unlikely to keep any person going on just emotion unless they purposely shut off their brains. A pretty speech only fools those who wish to be fooled.

I disagree about there being sufficient time for consequential reconsiderations. Impasse.

[rat1]

I'm not a beta NF. I'm an LSI. And my other post should explain well enough what I was saying.

Im not sure how much beta NF vs Beta in general really matters. But it's besides the point. I do think you can train yourself to acknowledge what it is you don't know. And I think it's more than just Betas who have this perceptive god complex where they act like they know everything. ESC is not beta.. Bolt, Maritsa not betas.

[squark]

I think non-Te types - especially the ethicals - will tend to either shun or fail to grasp information that is transmitted via Te. I'm not saying Betas are stupid, I'm saying that our society happens to favor Te and that it would be beneficial if there were some way to accommodate everyone.

Stop insulting my intelligence.

I disagree about there being sufficient time for consequential reconsiderations. Impasse.

eh. impasse indeed.

[Beautiful sky]

I appreciate Betas on several levels and here are a few, based on their contributions in my life:

1. I've appreciated EIE for their friendship and for their Ne demonstrative function in giving me business ideas; for their wonderful ability in textile designs and their help in designing my own place.

2. I appreciate LSI, one being my brother in law, who strive to do good things in life, their loyalty and love of their family and friends, for the shoulder to cry on, for their ability to sense the internal troubles in me and for their diagnostic abilities and analysis of situations.

3. Thank you, SLE, for being fun. For just living to experience; you've made me try to forget my worries and have fun, live in the moment, and enjoy life.

4. Thank you too, IEI, for bringing such beautiful prose into the world, for the beauty of art that you contribute to my life.

[silverchris9]

Eh. Betas are okay. I like gammas too.

What do I like about betas? I dunno. I mean, I guess they're more like-minded. And I have to give them props for focusing on what I consider to be important. And I guess the kind of artists I like tend to be betas (I mean like to hang out with more than like to read/listen to/etc).

On the other hand, betas tend to be a little more crazy than I can deal with. I'm a little too sane for that business. Of course, I'd like to be a little less sane. Betas are loud, I like that. But then also pushy, and I don't like that. Meh. Also they 'cause too many problems by being so emotional and often rather selfish. But they make life less boring too.

Eh again. (Eh Joe.) I'm in a bad mood as usual.

[discojoe]

Eh. Betas are okay. I like gammas too.

What do I like about betas? I dunno. I mean, I guess they're more like-minded. And I have to give them props for focusing on what I consider to be important. And I guess the kind of artists I like tend to be betas (I mean like to hang out with more than like to read/listen to/etc).

On the other hand, betas tend to be a little more crazy than I can deal with. I'm a little too sane for that business. Of course, I'd like to be a little less sane. Betas are loud, I like that. But then also pushy, and I don't like that. Meh. Also they 'cause too many problems by being so emotional and often rather selfish. But they make life less boring too.

Eh again. (Eh Joe.) I'm in a bad mood as usual.

Quit being a stinkbutt.

[silverchris9]

Quit being a stinkbutt.

What should I say about betas instead?

[redbaron]

Eh. Betas are okay. I like gammas too.

What do I like about betas? I dunno. I mean, I guess they're more like-minded. And I have to give them props for focusing on what I consider to be important. And I guess the kind of artists I like tend to be betas (I mean like to hang out with more than like to read/listen to/etc).

On the other hand, betas tend to be a little more crazy than I can deal with. I'm a little too sane for that business. Of course, I'd like to be a little less sane. Betas are loud, I like that. But then also pushy, and I don't like that. Meh. Also they 'cause too many problems by being so emotional and often rather selfish. But they make life less boring too.

Eh again. (Eh Joe.) I'm in a bad mood as usual.

I agree with all of this. why are you in a bad mood?

[DirectorAbbie]

Betas promote unity...in the same way that terrorists promote patriotism.

[ashlesha]

strong convictions and powerful art.

[EyeSeeCold]

Betas promote unity...in the same way that terrorists promote patriotism.

Nice comparison of Betas to terrorists.

"Society exists to protect Deltas from Betas".

[Gilly]

i appreciate beta for being the least awkward to talk to

wonder why...

[Gilly]

Well, your mom's a whore.

lol

[Gilly]

So when you place the quadra of action and passion into an environment that subsumes them into indolence and sheeplike behavior, they're going to become psychopathic barbarians waiting to tear down the gates.

fiksyd