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Thread: Sherlock, BBC TV

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    Default Sherlock, BBC TV

    Do you think they preserved the ESTjishness?







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    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    I think Watson could be an EII in a modern setting, but in the case of Sherlock, I can't really say as he seems a little unrealistic. I think the nature of Sherlock's lack of care towards Watson (although there is obviously some bond) may not be so unbefitting of a LSE, although it is quite clear that he is not representative of a completely healthy person. (also considering that the character of House is a modern reworking of Sherlock, at least superficially, and considering the two have the same sort of unhealthy behaviour, it may help to illustrate that he is not so immediately typeable from what I've seen).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Do you think they preserved the ESTjishness?
    Yes.

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    I haven't seen this, but I used to watch the Hallmark series. I liked the characters there.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean View Post
    I think Watson could be an EII in a modern setting, but in the case of Sherlock, I can't really say as he seems a little unrealistic. I think the nature of Sherlock's lack of care towards Watson (although there is obviously some bond) may not be so unbefitting of a LSE, although it is quite clear that he is not representative of a completely healthy person. (also considering that the character of House is a modern reworking of Sherlock, at least superficially, and considering the two have the same sort of unhealthy behaviour, it may help to illustrate that he is not so immediately typeable from what I've seen).
    Yeah, the writers of the show even explicitly write into the script that they're giving Sherlock sociopathic traits.* I have since wondered if perhaps some ESTjs (or ISTps) sometimes gravitate sociopathic habits - anti-social behavior and lack of conscience - due to unvalued Fe and weak Fi. But in any case, yes, I agree that the character of both Sherlock (in this series) and House are muddled by the writers exaggerating certain behaviors and purposely trying to portray them as unhealthy.

    I don't think Sherlock in this series is as callous or viciously manipulative as House, though. House gets kicks from messing with people; he's almost a villain at times. He's mean for the sake of entertainment. Sherlock doesn't usually mess with people unless it's specifically to get more info about one of his riddles. He even shows signs of semi-wishing he could get along with people better, or at that people felt better toward him. Watch his expressions, for example, when an old college buddy reminisces how everybody hated Sherlock because he knew the bad stuff they did. Or how he's defensive yet subtly pained when Watson expresses disappointment in his "heartlessness."



    * Written into the script: "I'm not a psychopath, Anderson, I'm a high-functioning sociopath. Do your research."




    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    I haven't seen this, but I used to watch the Hallmark series. I liked the characters there.
    Hm, I'll have to look that up.

    You should give this series a try, btw. My sister's ISTp fiance was pretty skeptical at first, thinking it might be a bit weird or silly, but once he sat down and watched it he actually liked it, guessing (usually accurately) at the answers as the mysteries unraveled. So you might like it, too.

    It's kind of funny, actually. Sherlock reminds me in several ways of this ISTp - his sort of matter-of-fact brusqueness, the kind of logic that goes through his head, the observations and awareness of the same kinds of details, the unawareness of how people might emotionally react to things. The character of Sherlock is more energetic, initiative-taking, risk-taking, and generally over-the-top than this ISTp, and ISTp has a bit more of the typical caregiver concerns and impulses, but it still amuses me to see the similarities.
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    Judging from the clips in this thread, the acting seems a bit over-the-top and Sherlock appears as a pretentious, unoriginal, 21st century Holmes wannabe. The fact that the actor looks ILE and radiates Gilly vibes, doesn't help either. Maybe I'll give it a try when I have more time.

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    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Judging from the clips in this thread, the acting seems a bit over-the-top and Sherlock appears as a pretentious, unoriginal, 21st century Holmes wannabe. The fact that the actor looks ILE and radiates Gilly vibes, doesn't help either. Maybe I'll give it a try when I have more time.

    Congratulations to your sister.
    The show is actually really good. And yeah I fucking agree about the Sherlock actor's resemblance to George. Watch an interview with him and it's clear he's EIE too.

    What we are left with is an EIE playing an LSE who acts like an EIE.

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    lmfao it's George. hahahahaha


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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    What we are left with is an EIE playing an LSE who acts like an EIE.
    Yeah, that makes sense. Which makes for some amusing/awkward dissonance at times.
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    Do you find the character LSE-ish for your own likings?

    How would you do with someone like that?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I like "all that matters is the work" from the Solar System clip.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Also,

    In that same clip, where he got 'upset' about the solar system/etc, if you watch his body movements when he slapped the book on the table closed and then turned around and curled up on the couch, that's very much a victim style of movement. The wiggliness and free flowingness is not how ST types move.

    So more points for the actor actually being a beta NF.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Judging from the clips in this thread, the acting seems a bit over-the-top and Sherlock appears as a pretentious, unoriginal, 21st century Holmes wannabe. The fact that the actor looks ILE and radiates Gilly vibes, doesn't help either. Maybe I'll give it a try when I have more time.

    Congratulations to your sister.
    Thanks And, yes, some of the acting is over-the-top. It's not a spectacular show, not perfect, a bit muddled socionically. But I got enjoyment out of it.

    If you don't want to like it, that's fine with me.


    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    Do you find the character LSE-ish for your own likings?

    How would you do with someone like that?
    Depends on what kind of "with" you mean. As a casual friendship it might work. As a close friend, that might be harder. I'd never marry him. For one thing, a craving for extreme risk-taking is not a trait I want in the father of my children.

    It's a character based on another character, though. And, as we've noted, the actor is in the opposite quadra as the original character. So there's a whole lot of muddledness going on with how the character is both formulated and portrayed. In other words, it's not a real person so I can't really say if or how I'd really get along. There isn't enough consistency to make a judgement like that.

    My question was if people thought that - despite the inevitable muddleness - the character still retains an ESTjish persona.



    Also, what about Watson? Delta NF? He seems a bit risk-loving...
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    there are delta NFs who are rather 'risk loving'.

    I know what your question is. Overall, I'd say, sort of. The 'mindset' is there, it's delivery is and isn't, at times. The clips sort of show a tendency for Te > Fe valuing for Holmes' character.

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    Here's a snippet from the series I mentioned earlier...


    Funny how most actors that 've played Holmes seem Ti/Fe. Matt Frewer seems like a Ti-INTj.

    And talk about over-the-top acting...


    Still quite amusing though.

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    actor is obviously some rational logic from alpha or beta, very IXTj from VI, LII i guess, the character is fictional and really hard to type, he is a genius, a very specific personality... but LSI is more plausible than LSE in most events, he seems to be upset when watson starts his Fi-talking about feelings of other people, morality of sherlock's behavior and so on, definitely no Fi-valuing, but as i said it's a fictional character and he seems to show some ways of behave which is typical for both LSI and LSE, and also we have impression of alpha nt vibes over all

    watson is EII, as the actor himself
    Last edited by jouziou; 07-06-2012 at 01:49 PM.

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    Default Sherlock (BBC)

    This is just on the characters from the BBC TV show Sherlock. Not the books, or the movie.

    Now the man himself is rather hard to type for obvious reasons. First, I thought a sociopathic and genius LSI... Not sure. Thoughts on him and the other characters?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    * Written into the script: "I'm not a psychopath, Anderson, I'm a high-functioning sociopath. Do your research."


    Why people take this joke as statement meant to be true? Hilarious conceptual logical sarcasm that goes way beyound the situation at hand.

    Anyways. Holmes was supposed to have unusual cognition. Is he actually typable? LSE creation anyways. BBC version has much less of LSE style.
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