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Thread: Fe-hand gesticulation?

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    Default Fe-hand gesticulation?

    Do types that value Fe have more of a tenancy to gesticulate (use gestures) with their hands more than types that value Fi? Or is this a manifestation of something else?

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    escaping anndelise's Avatar
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    Gesticulating with the hands can help
    a) get your point across while trying to find the right words
    b) help you find the right words

    I don't believe it is related to either, though I'm sure many will say that it's related to Fe.

    The thing I'd like to watch for would be what kinds of circumstances are they using the hand gestures in.

    For example, for myself, I'm usually pointing at where the thought is, in relation to my body. Like the thought is a hologram or such, and by pointing at it I can focus on it more clearer. Of course, to the outsider, it seems like random hand movements. It's often been viewed as a negative thing by psychologists I've seen. (I forgot the term they used, but it's similar to 'inappropriate' and 'over the top' gesturing.)

    An interesting page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gestures
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    Korpsy Knievel's Avatar
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    This is related to a study I read a few years ago that was rather interesting:

    One reason that gestures are so often ascribed a communicative function
    may be that it is not obvious what other functions they might serve. Actually, over the past half-century several have been suggested. For example, noting that people often gesture when they are having difficulty retrieving elusive words from memory, researchers have suggested that at least some gestures may be functional in dissipating the tension that accumulates during lexical search. They assume that the failure to retrieve a sought-after word is frustrating, and that the tensions generated by frustration could interfere with the speaker's ability to produce coherent speech' hand movements provide a means for dissipating excess energy and frustration.

    Other investigators have remarked on the cooccurrence of gestures and
    hesitation pauses, although they have not attributed the gestures to tension management. The tension reduction hypothesis has never been tested experimentally, but there is little doubt that gesturing and word retrieval failures co-occur.

    The possibility that gesturing occurs during hesitation because it plays a
    direct role in the process of lexical retrieval has been suggested by a strikingly
    diverse group of scholars over the last 75 years. Although the idea is not a new one, the details of the process by which gestures might affect lexical access are both grossly underspecified and underconstrained by the available data.


    http://www.columbia.edu/~rmk7/PDF/K%26H.pdf

    And also:

    Hand Gestures Linked To Better Speaking

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    Quote Originally Posted by sar View Post
    Do types that value Fe have more of a tenancy to gesticulate (use gestures) with their hands more than types that value Fi? Or is this a manifestation of something else?
    I think F is involved in this, as is S - my expectations are for the people with the most of them in their Ego block to gesture the most, and for the type of S, and F, for that matter, to play a lot in how and what gestures are made... mine, predictably enough, are a bit "traffic cop" like, for lack of a better term also, when there's a word I jump on a bit tonewise, my hands kinda chop (or loosely point to the sky or something) along with them - they're a bit on the forceful side, but almost never aggressive...

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    I think ESEs do this. I know an ESE girl who does so quite often but then again she's MAJORLY extraverted so maybe it's just an extravert thing actually

    It's kind of weird and off putting at times because I feel like for ESEs, demonstrative shines out during these moments of frenzied emotional expressivity and communication. Like.. I dunno. They seem all sweet and friendly but then they get all "hard" with their hand gestures and it's weird.

    I think I might do this too maybe not noticing. My boyfriend makes fun of when I get worked up, how I slap the back of one hand with the palm of the other lol. I used to stomp my one of my feet whenever I laughed a lot. I don't think I do that anymore. But definitely I feel gestures are really good at conveying a message with more "force" and I like using them during presentations, etc.


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    Ann and Ashton, do you two know if you're kinesthetic learners? I am, and I do as you both described too, in that I need to physically manipulate my thoughts in space as I'm describing things if I haven't managed to verbalise them yet.

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    Hi, read the articles I posted instead of running in circles. Then fling all the IEs and IAs and types and clubs and shit around that you want. The second link is to a much shorter document than the first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat King Cole View Post
    Ann and Ashton, do you two know if you're kinesthetic learners? I am, and I do as you both described too, in that I need to physically manipulate my thoughts in space as I'm describing things if I haven't managed to verbalise them yet.
    Hi Cat King Cole,
    I believe that I'm more of a kinesthetic and visual learner. I love diagrams, and in fact need them in order to better remember information on a topic. I remember the info by 'seeing' the diagram, then where on the diagram the info was located at, and then seeing the word/phrase. Or if it's in a book, then approximately where in the book it was located at.

    I also remember things by where in my body/mind it is located at. I often point to where it's 'projected', and if it's info that's 'behind me', then I do a hand swish.

    If I'm trying to forget something, or push it out of my mind, I will literally use my hands to push it away or to block it out. There is even some information that if it pops into my head, I will look away from it to avoid thinking about it.

    If I'm weighing situations in my head, I literally do a 'on the one hand x', 'on the other hand y', and then 'on yet another hand z'...placing each possibility into their own separate locality. And will then reference that locality each time I reference that topic. (ex I place X to my right, and each time I talk about X, I put my hand or finger or chin/forehead to point to X's location at my right.)

    Often the gestures are misunderstood by others. But then, it's not like the info I'm referencing is located in the same place to them as where I'm pointing.

    Two things I've found interesting.
    One, some of what I do is similar to how deaf people who do natural sign language do it. (by "natural sign language" I mean one that isn't standardized to something like English grammar) I often wonder that if I were to study sign language, then it might help me think clearer.

    Two, the links that k0rpsey gave. It helps me, personally, to know that it's a common thing, does serve the purposes it seemed to for me, and that the psychologists can go to hell on yet another label they give me. (if only i could remember the damned term, heh).

    Histrionic...that's the word. They keep calling it histrionic behavior due to my hand and chin/forehead gestures. grrrr. heheh
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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsey View Post
    Hi, read the articles I posted instead of running in circles. Then fling all the IEs and IAs and types and clubs and shit around that you want. The second link is to a much shorter document than the first.
    I'm in page 16 of 41 so far!

    So far, if I recall correctly, the broader, slower arm movements are more of a means of memory recall than anything else, and the sharper, faster movements, as well as the ones that specifically represent something being communicated (a hand moving in a circular motion to indicate that something is round) have more to do with directly conveying things in communication itself...

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsey View Post
    Hi, read the articles I posted instead of running in circles. Then fling all the IEs and IAs and types and clubs and shit around that you want. The second link is to a much shorter document than the first.
    shut up


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    would most agree that the following is a manifestation of ? or...? (bald guy)



    I'm trying to sort of get a better understanding of these...

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    It's mostly connected to which culture a person grew up in. We italians are (in)famous for our tendency to gesticulate, and we're not omniously Fe types. Even in the most remote alpine villages people will gesticulate a lot, but if you cross the border, you'll notice a big change.

    Example:

    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Korpsy Knievel's Avatar
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    I gesticulate to illustrate spatial ideas or add affect to my words, and I'm def. not in the Fe-favoring posse. I may also manually fish in the air, perform finger-cycling gestures, or tap my temple while mentally searching for a temporarily misplaced name or word. When tense or thinking rapidly I burn off excess nervous energy by tapping out various sequences with the thumb and fingers of one or both hands, and I often catch myself percussing beats with fingers and toes while focused on other matters. Sometimes while manually describing rotary motions or other mechanical processes I find myself inadvertently making what could be regarded as titty-honking gestures before grinning or laughing for no reason apparent to my probably-female interlocutor.

    If engaging a foreigner whose grasp of English is on the same level as my pidgin of his native tongue then I rely on manual indication and pantomime to make my points, but it's somewhat belabored and not unconscious as when speaking normally.

    During my visits to Italy I was amused to see that the stereotype of the floridly-gesturing paisan was quite true, even among very young children.

    Anyhow, not type related, so knock this crap off. Gesticulation would only be Fe if it was meant to instill a cheery atmosphere so betas could sell their art or used cars, or alphas could discuss anime and math without getting beaten up.

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    I believe it's related to being socially comfortable.

    When I'm not anxious, I find I will gesticulate with my hands but when I'm tense and nervous I am afraid to be in my body and it's like I feel like something is hacking away at my nervous system with an axe, and so I will just sort of neurotically stay in one place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    When I'm not anxious, I find I will gesticulate with my hands but when I'm tense and nervous I am afraid to be in my body and it's like I feel like something is hacking away at my nervous system with an axe, and so I will just sort of neurotically stay in one place.
    ahah yeah. i'm the same when i'm uncomfortable. and like telling myself i should be moving or something but just not. awkwardd.

    i don't think i gesticulate much anyway. the only thing i can think of is putting my hands out palm up in this clawing kind of thing. i think i'm more likely to gesticulate the more engaged and emotionally interested i am, but maybe thats obvious.

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    For some reason I equate gesticulation with extroversion more than anything else.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardia View Post
    For some reason I equate gesticulation with extroversion more than anything else.
    yah honestly how can someone actually think its NOT more commonly seen in extraverts?

    uhhh yeah k0rpsey or w/e .. your tone when i read your posts is consistently condescending and pretentious. "hi, read the articles..." um fuck off no.


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    Korpsy Knievel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    yah honestly how can someone actually think its NOT more commonly seen in extraverts?
    Cite a study making that case or outline one of your own. "Honestly" is slim justification for anything. As demonstrated by the article and paper I linked (and there are far more than just those two), plus my anecdotes and others', gesticulation is a ubiquitous human phenomenon that cannot be explained by IE preference. A better question to ask is, "under what circumstances is an Fe/Fi valuer more likely to gesticulate?", but even that can't be adequately explained by sociotype since culture, class, gender roles, family, training, etc. all take part in developing one's habits and reactions.

    uhhh yeah k0rpsey or w/e .. your tone when i read your posts is consistently condescending and pretentious.
    That's your problem. Often ≠ constantly. And the only pretense is that of misdirection used for amusement purposes.

    "hi, read the articles..." um fuck off no.
    Role Te :( Given your dual, you obviously prefer the Se-infused argumentum ad baculum over appeals to scientific authority.

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