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Thread: Delta NF and the ability to write effectively

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    Default Delta NF and the ability to write effectively

    I've never met a delta NF who couldn't write. In fact, whenever I read an exceptionally clear and easy-to-read text, I assume a delta NF wrote it.

    What about the functions gives delta NF these remarkable abilities?

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    Last edited by golden; 06-09-2011 at 09:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    I've never met a delta NF who couldn't write.
    Literacy ftw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    there should be good writers of every type. Writing is obvs a learnable craft or art,
    Learning is a skill. I wouldn't assume delta NFs are particularly better than other types.

    Supposedly your quasi-identical's writing is tough to read. tcaudilllg, if an INTps writing isn't "exceptionally clear and easy-to-read text", does that preclude them from having "remarkable abilities" of writing? No, it's all perspective.

    But, I'll play along. Hypothetically, if that assumption is true, that Delta NFs are on average better writers than other types, then perhaps it's related to Ne. The ability to reconcile multiple viewpoints, to explain things easily to all people.

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    Appearances matter to us and we invest a lot of time and energy keeping them up.

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    I've developed into a pretty darn effective writer if i do say so myself. People close to me often come to me for advice and help with writing they are trying to do and more often than not receive successful results from the tips I was able to offer them.

    However, this was not always the case, as Mt. Dew and Golden have alluded to. Perhaps moreso type related is the fact that I have an AWFUL tendency to write long complicated sentences that never end. I constantly find myself having to work and rework sentences like that in writing that I do. Also perhaps type related (and has assisted me in becoming as effective in my writing as I can be) is that when I write I just naturally try to assess how what i'm writing is going to affect the other person, different ways it might be taken, and how I can better phrase things to clarify whatever double or triple meanings that might exist. I think that helps me a lot actually.

    I should also note that I'm a much more effective writer than speaker.
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    Thanks.

    Not to spurn a compliment, but I'm guessing this has more to do with your type in relation to theirs...I doubt everyone has that same experience.

    But hey, like Dew I'll play along for a sec. We'll say Fi means better than average social skills, which means better communication skills, writing being part of communication. Weak Ti may mean some extra focus on making sure things follow a logical progression with few logical assumptions made along the way. Ne keeps the big picture in mind, and accounts for other possibilities and viewpoints.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    I've never met a delta NF who couldn't write. In fact, whenever I read an exceptionally clear and easy-to-read text, I assume a delta NF wrote it.

    What about the functions gives delta NF these remarkable abilities?
    ITT begging the question.

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    Haven't noticed this myself tbh. Static types though do seem to excel in providing in depth analyses which may be easier for you to digest since you're a fellow static type. I have noted on a few occasions that LIIs prefer EII writing to IEI writing which they report finding more difficult to understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    Haven't noticed this myself tbh. Static types though do seem to excel in providing in depth analyses which may be easier for you to digest since you're a fellow static type. I have noted on a few occasions that LIIs prefer EII writing to IEI writing which they report finding more difficult to understand.
    Interesting, I find IEI writing on this forum to be very difficult to read as well (I'm talking about the walls of text). Might be an Ne/Si/Te vs Ni/Se/Ti thing.
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    lol yeah, ntr but ty

    in terms of what delta NFs might bring to the table alongside what every other type might bring, there have been some ideas in this thread that could work. i think Ne helps me in finding ways to sum up various smaller ideas or picking out something i find interesting from a larger idea.

    i guess a pitfall delta NFs might run into could include having a lot of details that point to the main idea but having trouble exactly pinpointing it and pushing it through because of weak Ti.

    like wa i think i'm much better with writing than speaking.

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    Last edited by golden; 06-09-2011 at 09:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    i guess a pitfall delta NFs might run into could include having a lot of details that point to the main idea but having trouble exactly pinpointing it and pushing it through because of weak Ti.
    yes this is definitely something i struggle with. I can tell i annoy some people when i get too detailed (which is a big tendency I have)... well I guess including myself because i can get lost in all the detail sometimes. I guess having learned over time and with experience that sometimes people just aren't interested in hearing (or reading) about certain things is one of the things that has contributed to my development as a writer. In other words, my current writing style is a learned behavior and thus not necessarily type related.

    Golden, I agree that type-related attributes do bring different strengths to the table, and all types have some things to learn and develop in their writing to suit people who process information in ways other than the writer. I suppose the most effective writers are those who can write in a way that all or most types can digest easily.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    yes this is definitely something i struggle with. I can tell i annoy some people when i get too detailed (which is a big tendency I have)... well I guess including myself because i can get lost in all the detail sometimes. I guess having learned over time and with experience that sometimes people just aren't interested in hearing (or reading) about certain things is one of the things that has contributed to my development as a writer. In other words, my current writing style is a learned behavior and thus not necessarily type related.
    I identify with you to a certain extent. I find myself getting a bit long-winded at times by providing too much details which might be unnecessary, and I might digress a little at times from the main topic. Anyway, I find that Gamma types tend to have better writing skills imo. They are not only effective writers, but their writing style seems very lucid as well.

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    There's a study topic then: do INTJs find delta NF writing especially easy to read?

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    What kind of stuff were you reading?

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    I personally think that NFs are gifted in language and hearing. I feel like the best poets, musical-theatre actors, preachers, and speakers will predominately be NF. For INFJs, in particular, I've noticed they seem to be more interested in the words themselves and their meanings, more so than intonation (pattern or melody in pitch). Diction and finding the precise word seems to be very important to them, thus them being able to say the same thing in a variety of different ways.

    My friend is trying to become a pastor, he's an INFJ. When he preaches, he uses a good mix of conciseness and deep meaning, which I enjoy listening to very much. He likes to use a lot of concrete examples, applications, statistical evidence, and information from many different angles and disciplines (Ne+Te). He does all this very nicely and gets to the main point. I'm pretty sure if I read something he wrote, I'd feel the same way. I would say he's an excellent speaker and writer!! One of the best amongst all my friends.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Computer texts. It seems like INFJs write in a very blunt, straightforward way, putting a priority on making the idea clear, without making assumptions.

    Rick is also good at that. The talent of a writer is to avoid assumptions as to what the reader knows, and introduce things in a way that surpasses the reader's ability to not mistake the meaning of the text for something else. An emotionless, straightforward explanation -- and planned, most of all.

    But when an INFJ writes something, it's pretty transparent that it's an INFJ who is doing the writing, to me. I think it's the mix of humility (F), closure (J), thoroughness (IJ), and possibly selectivity (N).
    I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. In contrast, it seems like a lot of stereotypical NT-types love to spew out a lot of theoretical jargon while assuming the reader has a lot of background information. Almost as if, it was unplanned and a general disregard of the reader in mind.
    Last edited by peteronfireee; 05-23-2011 at 07:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozz View Post
    What kind of stuff were you reading?
    Computer texts. It seems like INFJs write in a very blunt, straightforward way, putting a priority on making the idea clear, without making assumptions.

    Rick is also good at that. The talent of a writer is to avoid assumptions as to what the reader knows, and introduce things in a way that surpasses the reader's ability to not mistake the meaning of the text for something else. An emotionless, straightforward explanation -- and planned, most of all.

    But when an INFJ writes something, it's pretty transparent that it's an INFJ who is doing the writing, to me. I think it's the mix of humility (F), closure (J), thoroughness (IJ), and possibly selectivity (N).

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    Yeah their writing is easy to read. I've seen alot of newspaper columnists and reporters who are ENFps. The issue I have with reporters (and this includes local reporters) is they dumb things down and don't speak realistically about what happened. The story is more a fantasy of a parallel universe. Delta NFs tend to oversimplify things for the sake of comprehension. They will ignore certain information and emphasize other information selectively based on what they're trying to accomplish.

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    If you mean professional work, like academic texts or something similar, I haven't had the chance. But I understand what you mean about conciseness and preparation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy123 View Post
    I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. In contrast, it seems like a lot of stereotypical NT-types love to spew out a lot of theoretical jargon while assuming the reader has a lot of background information. Almost as if, it was unplanned and a general disregard of the reader in mind.

    I can only stand to dwell on my word choices for so long, and then I feel myself beginning not to care. Gulenko would probably describe that as a loss of energy due to weakness in one function or another (delta Ne?). When I lose consideration energy, I begin shoving off responsibility onto the reader, with of course mixed results. So there are times I'll write well and clearly, and times I won't be able to muster a coherent narrative. The two periods generally follow after one other in succession. Same goes for emotional control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    There's a study topic then: do INTJs find delta NF writing especially easy to read?
    Not that I know of. Just like Jung, to me, is fairly organized, his excessive analytical lingo is a difficult form of logic for me to follow and I presume that my emotional and relational writing that has many judgmental values and feelings is perhaps difficult for INTjs pay too much attention to. I can read Jung very easily, but get bored easily as well. I wonder if INTjs feel the same way about my writing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Not that I know of. Just like Jung, to me, is fairly organized, his excessive analytical lingo is a difficult form of logic for me to follow and I presume that my emotional and relational writing that has many judgmental values and feelings is perhaps difficult for INTjs pay too much attention to. I can read Jung very easily, but get bored easily as well. I wonder if INTjs feel the same way about my writing.
    maritsa, you by far are not a well developed writer--your writing is often very difficult for me to read.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    maritsa, you by far are not a well developed writer--your writing is often very difficult for me to read.
    You really are unnecessarily rude sometimes, aren't you.

    Besides, your reasoning is flawed. "Maritsa, falsely objective-sounding observation--personal opinion that stands in as "evidence" of falsely objective-sounding observation." Lame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClaudiaM View Post
    You really are unnecessarily rude sometimes, aren't you.

    Besides, your reasoning is flawed. "Maritsa, falsely objective-sounding observation--personal opinion that stands in as "evidence" of falsely objective-sounding observation." Lame.
    Um you obviously haven't read Maritsa's walls of text before have you...This is based upon actual evidence. Search the forum, isn't difficult to find. And i just stated a fact, no personal biases involved. The fact is, I can't understand a thing Maritsa writes and that's exactly what I said.
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    In Maritsa's defense she's not a native english speaker, nor probably a Delta NF.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    In Maritsa's defense she's not a native english speaker, nor probably a Delta NF.
    a lot of people here arent native english speakers and i can still enjoy what they write even if it's in imperfect english. I think in this case it goes beyond non-native English skills, and i agree with your latter statement.
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    Not sure, I don't really write, but I've found that quadras will enjoy their own writings more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Computer texts. It seems like INFJs write in a very blunt, straightforward way, putting a priority on making the idea clear, without making assumptions.

    Rick is also good at that. The talent of a writer is to avoid assumptions as to what the reader knows, and introduce things in a way that surpasses the reader's ability to not mistake the meaning of the text for something else. An emotionless, straightforward explanation -- and planned, most of all.

    But when an INFJ writes something, it's pretty transparent that it's an INFJ who is doing the writing, to me. I think it's the mix of humility (F), closure (J), thoroughness (IJ), and possibly selectivity (N).
    I'm not Delta NF (as far as I currently know), but my main goal in writing is to make a person understand what's being conveyed - what good is communication if the contents of information can't be properly received and used?

    I attribute much of this to placing a high value on - the heavy T valuers, especially the NTs, have a certain expansiveness to their explanations that me and my fellow heavy valuers don't generally have...

    Alpha NTs seem furthest in this direction to me as far as inaccessibility goes, largely due to type relations and all, probably... this is a two way street, leading you, specifically, to understand Delta NFs more than your -Ego Conflictors and Super-egos in Gamma...

    Also, when I look at the Reinins that seem most relevant to clear and direct writing, I share with the EIIs:

    - Farsighted (for planning)
    - Serious (the valuing)
    - Strategic (to accomplish the end goal, which, to a heavy valuer, should largely consist of connecting with the person receiving the info)
    - Positivist (for certainty)
    - Process (for structure)

    The last two also point to Causal-Determinist cognitive style, which is the most direct one there is (don't feel bad if you don't have it - the others have much more breathing room)...

    I'll give myself a point for Decisive (this one could be due to my own preferences more than anything, don't be too heavy on it), and I'll give the EIIs way more than that for:

    - Constructivist (should steer things in an emotionally level direction, which you favor)
    - Declaring (for certainty and directness)
    - Rational (for all sorts of stuff)

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