So, I'm having an identity crisis.
A small one. Is there a word for complete mental upheaval that isn't emotionally catastrophic?
Anyway, I can do two things with this:
I can change my type.
I can take my type for granted and instead change my understand of my type.
Which would you do, and why?
Option number three: quit investing so much into the theory of personality types.
Well I mainly like option #3, but reallly I think we need more information.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
the first choice will usually lead to a whole batch of other inconsistencies.
choose 2 and adjust your estimation of what socionics can do for you downward. it's a theory with serious flaws. regardless of the typing, there will always be things that don't perfectly fit.
i've been in this situation twice, revising everything i knew about socionics in order to try to see myself as INTp. nothing good ever came from it.
What is making you question your type? You know tons of people here are probably mistyped. I don't think realizing you're mistyped is that big of a deal. But the question is, WHY do you think you're mistyped?
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Why would you consider I'm overly invested in Socionics? What does "overly invested" even mean?
This comes as a really strange criticism.
Originally Posted by eggbert
QED
I don't know, I'm in the mind to reconsider my type in the face of just losing a fairly close friend of mine. Obviously anyone's going to go through some mental readjustment due to having all these now-defunct mental references back to a person who longer exists in your life. It's a point of philosophical curiosity for me that I may have mistyped myself having changed to accomodate them, or other people in general.
I would say that's a manifestation of the core question, what do you actually type? I start to use a lot of Ti vocabulary in Ti situations. Am I a Ti ego? Am I misattributing Ti when it's just my cognitive style in action? Taking a step back, how powerful is the phenomenon of "resonance"? Enough to cause an individual to superficially manifest vocabulary and thought processes of a valued non-Ego element?
How adequate are the various explanations for why one's type may not be expressed clearly? Do they just obscure the truth of type? What is the truth, can it be known? Does type exist in a vacuum?
@Hydrangea:
The entire way I have of relating to the world is through systems and theories. That's no more overinvestment than, say, humans being "overinvested" in using their eyes to not get eaten by big catsI am willing to hear otherwise, of course; if you can provide objetive reasoning for your comment, elevating it beyond misunderstanding and opinion.
Well, no, I'm just experiencing a "personality readjustment" as one does whenever you remove a large part of their life. It's just raising lot's of interesting Socionics and general personality questions, ones I never really adequately answered for myself in the past.
If Socionics were the cause, then yes, I'd agree that's an over-investment.
if you haven't been able to type yourself after all this time, what makes you think you ever will?
what will ever make you answer the question of whether you were crazy then, or now?
I am sorry if I have offended you, I did not mean for that to come off in a critical nature. I merely suggested that option because you seemed to think that there were only two paths for you to follow and both of them revolved around personality types.
Whether or not you are "overly invested", I do not rightly know. Based solely on this thread it was a suggestion to help alleviate some stress.
Typically when people have identity crises they change some aspect of their life such as their location, their job, their family. They do not try to change their personality type. They do not even look at their personality as the problem. Perhaps this is less of an identity crises and more of a very painful personal blow and that is why you wish to change your core self, or have a different understanding of yourself... which does not make much sense to me. I am more than likely interpreting this inocorrectly but when you say,, I get the impression that you are deluding yourself now or you wish to delude yourself.I can take my type for granted and instead change my understand of my type.
your Si-Fu is much stronger than your Ti-Zai.
Fair enough.
Socionics has been my scaffolding in the void when it comes to understanding my own personality. There are a lot of unanswerable questions I have regarding myself which Socionics at least provides serviceable solutions to.
That really diminishes it to an intellectual distraction to keep my mind off much more difficult questions which I was not, in the past, equipped to answer.
Who am I? Where do I begin and end? Why do I experience this confusion? What caused it? Is it part of who I am naturally?
I can answer a lot of them of course, but that's because my library of systems has become more sophisticated since I made it a habit of getting lost inside my head asking difficult questions.
Having this happen to me is just raising a lot of personality questions that I'd use Socionics to answer, seeing as how Socionics is my answer booklet for questions I have about myself. It's not that I'm "changing my type", more that my certainty about my type is being shaken as a symptom of having questions about identity and psychology being raised in response to what's happening to me.
no offense, but that makes you sound normal and uncomplicated. it's the kind of thing everybody goes through.
Ah, I see. You are clinging to socionics for safety and security. A stable definitive property with which to order your life and answer your questions.
Allow me to quote Camus: "then came human beings, they wanted to cling but there was nothing to cling to."
I suppose. I can view myself as having had a basically unmanifested and heavily repressed personality until two years ago when I started to experience duality.
That's where the problem of "What do you type?" comes in.
I suppose irrespective of what elements I use, I will always be an IP. I won't slowly develop Si amnesia if I'm left in a void. Also, simply developing experience and mastery with Ti doesn't make me a Ti dominant or creative.
EFs are still winding up in maths and science, after all
That answers your question, labcoat, of "how will I know I wasn't crazy in the past?" I can know by looking for the perfectly stable things by which I can get my bearing with reality again, having lost it. That was a very good question, thank you
--
In Jung I have always been a Ti dominant. I used to use internalised reasoning in primary school to make up sci-fi-like stories. I would make up tall tales based on what "seemed reasonable". The only difference between me now and me as a child is I have a stronger base in physical reality, I'm more capable of sophisticated reasoning, and I have a more robust collection of systems and theories (cognitive maturation, more experienced Ti, and support from a since-developed Se).
In Socionics, I don't know if I was always a Si dominant. Old photos of me as a kid, and reports from my parents and grandma seemed to imply I used to be a lot cheerier and sunnier. I've apparently also always been someone who spends a lot of time thinking and pondering, and asking the right questions. Superficially, am I Alpha SF or Alpha NT based on that? Do IFPs just start life happier and get progressively more solemn and depressive or something?
that repressed, neurotic state reveals more about your type than the dualized state does.I suppose. I can view myself as having had a basically unmanifested and heavily repressed personality until two years ago when I started to experience duality.
well, there's your answer.I suppose irrespective of what elements I use, I will always be an IP. I won't slowly develop Si amnesia if I'm left in a void. Also, simply developing experience and mastery with Ti doesn't make me a Ti dominant or creative.
math/science transcriptions of Ti..? god forbid. you're going to send me into an identity crisis.EFs are still winding up in maths and science, after all
the most certain answers in life derive from processes that synthesize information from as many sources as possible. by closing yourself off from a huge part of your intellectual life you distance yourself massively from the goal of reaching such answers.That answers your question, labcoat, of "how will I know I wasn't crazy in the past?" I can know by looking for the perfectly stable things by which I can get my bearing with reality again, having lost it. That was a very good question, thank you
this involves a good dose of Si-Fu.In Jung I have always been a Ti dominant. I used to use internalised reasoning in primary school to make up sci-fi-like stories.
who would make stuff up that seemed unreasonable?I would make up tall tales based on what "seemed reasonable".
cognitive maturation more than covers it. no need to get functions involved.The only difference between me now and me as a child is I have a stronger base in physical reality, I'm more capable of sophisticated reasoning, and I have a more robust collection of systems and theories (cognitive maturation, more experienced Ti, and support from a since-developed Se).
childhood is always messy where socionics is concerned. i was ESTp'ish up to age 4.In Socionics, I don't know if I was always a Si dominant. Old photos of me as a kid, and reports from my parents and grandma seemed to imply I used to be a lot cheerier and sunnier. I've apparently also always been someone who spends a lot of time thinking and pondering, and asking the right questions. Superficially, am I Alpha SF or Alpha NT based on that? Do IFPs just start life happier and get progressively more solemn and depressive or something?
it's hard to understand yourself if your understanding lies in what your current typing is. i personally prefer to just take a break from it all for a while... don't type yourself, but be yourself without qualifying it or w/e
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
Look, man, if I were you, I'd deal with the issues making you question your identity separately from what it correlates to or implies socionically. The identity stuff is real, it's what you're feeling and experiencing. Socionics is just a lens of viewing the sort of mental anguish you're going through.
Labcoat's right in advising you to kind of scale back your expectations of socionics. It's at best a theory in progress. Sometimes the elegance or allure of the system can lead you to believe that it's only your understanding at odds, not the system itself, but trust me it's pretty much always a mediation of the two.
It sounds to me like the real thing is losing a friend. I know how much that can tear a person up inside. I don't know it came about, whether it just fizzled and the two of you faded further and further out of each other's lives or whether it was some collision that sent you both flying away in opposite directions. Regardless, it leaves you with a ton of questions about yourself, about the other person, the whys and hows and whens. Questions like this rise to the surface when you find out that the answers you thought you had just don't seem to work anymore.
Let me say this to you too. People's internal lives are crazy, wondrous roller coasters. We run through cycles. We go up and down, sometimes through crazy fucking loops. Don't worry if you start intellectualizing a lot, or if you withdraw and introspect about anything and everything. When you lose something or someone important to you, especially if you're afraid you'll never get it back, it's only natural to go back to square one. Just like when we finally start to piece everything together it makes us impetuous. It propels us into life. We find unexpected marvels, embark on foolish endeavors, fall in love, or plummet from the heavens when we've gone too far or come too close to something painful. You'll retreat, maybe lick your wounds, and start asking questions. But whatever you do, don't lose that confidence, that bravery, that led you to reach up. It is the most astounding conviction you will ever come to possess. It is the most you you will ever be.
So even now, when things seem bleak and everything's mired in foggy mental confusion, remember to steel your heart in spite of your uncertainty. Step forward with sure feet, because no matter how bad things are now, you are still here. Answers come and go regardless of what you choose, and staying still will win you nothing.
Hey! I'm the camus fanboy around here.
Unless you are convinced that SEI is inadequate, I would stick with it.Which would you do, and why?
Instead of treating socionics "type" as some inmalleable mold, I perfer to think of it as merely a categorization of information values and priorties. You will have far more room for individuality within you "type" that way.
No typing will ever be comprehensive to the point where you could never find any inconsistencies with it, you are more complex than that. We all are.
Is there a word for complete mental upheaval that isn't emotionally catastrophic?I'll come back to you on that.
The mode of goodness conditions one to happiness, passion conditions him to the fruits of action, and ignorance to madness.
Chapter 14, Verse 9.
The Bhagavad Gita
How so? To me it seems like a typeless state.
Though I can see how I was very Fe even not being fully myself.
Sure, but you said it yourself: it takes synthesizing information. That requires you to have information in the first place, which can't happen if you're vetoing everything.
I can go around in circles in my head not knowing how to properly filter information, or I can bite my tongue and give myself some acceptable base to work with.
The opening question in this thread for me was, "Is my acceptable base really that acceptable?" Consider this thread being me reinforcing it from multiple more sources, patching up the bits that don't seem to be water-tight.
Because Si-Fu is like the tai chi quan to Ti-Zai's ba ji quan? Both are External and Introverted.
Fair enough then. It's not quite as neatly consistent as Jung (which is why I raised cognitive functions, I was jut contrasting how one system lends itself to me being certain, while the other does not so much).
Go with the in between type. Since socionics is a long history of making stuff up, you wouldn't be any less reputable.
I suggest SEILE for you.
It goes without saying, however, that socionics (due to its contrived nature) should not be regarded as a model to base your behavior on or your understanding of yourself.
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From what I know so far (I think I saw a video of you on YouTube and it ruledmost Alpha quadra thing ever), you seem like a heavily dualized SEI, which is a good thing!
generally, the more sane, bright, and whole you are, and the less stressed you are, the more you'll have parts of your dual in yourself, and that's really good to have, and not bad...
I'd forget type theory and do something that I enjoy and through that learn more about myself, then return to personality theory
Anything in mind?
That's what you always did; take the other path now, the LEFT HAND PATH. Socionics will rule the world! Fi people try to prevent this by spreading confusion, because they fear, but Socionics is unstoppable! Hahaha...! Prepare your lists for discrimination in advance - to have an idea what I mean, entries like "Fi types are forbidden to publish trivia".
Keep reading descriptions till you find one that correlates with you 90% or so. If that type's other descriptions fit you reasonably well you should be that type. Creating the type's picture in your head with multiple descriptions is better than functions/dichotomies/etc. combined.
ILI (FINAL ANSWER)
You could become Batman. Or maybe that's too expensive. How about I kill your friends and family and then you can swear vengeance on me and all criminals as The Punisher?
just kidding of course about the killing
That's so true...
You are Gul. There is only one, and we are lucky to have him.
ISTp
SLI
Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.
My friendly advice to you is this:
Simply follow what makes YOU emotionally happy. What gives you a rise? I think that's how people find themselves. Not through thoughts, but through feelings.
For example, I'm playing RIFT now and I'm realizing my true self is somebody that uplifts others: A bard/buffer class. As a writer, I think this is what writers purely do: They uplift others. I tried an assassin and it was nice and all, but it felt a bit too straight man ish for cute little Sammy.
When I changed my Rogue from an assassin to a bard, it felt much more like a fit for me. I tried other classes, but Bard seems to work the most well, so I'm trying to stick with that.
Your thoughts will lie to you, because the Ego is a liar (from time to time, not always) - but your own emotional essence and vibration won't. You know what I mean?
Also think of it this way: It's something that should make you feel like it's what you can help and offer the world, not something that makes you feel like you're a victim. If it's making you neurotic and insecure, then it's probably just not a match to what you are.
If it's something that is simply making you eager and happy, then you know you're onto something here.
So what are your interests? Gaming, dorky stuff right? I have the same interests. So just follow that then, because that's where your power is that's where your money is, that's where 'Gul' is. It's okay to be a dorky nerd that likes mmorpgs. =)
I knew I wanted to be a writer when I was 2 years old. A writer and an artist.
I was clearly more compassionate than my other male peers, less rough, and more sensitive (stereotypically faggy I suppose) and I felt things more deeply- and I was more intune when people were being socially mistreated. Just like all artists stereotypically are. And I threw hissy fits if people tried to put me 'in a conforming box.' The downside of that is being too oversensitive and 'emo' yes, but it also comes with many great strengths.
Doing simple everyday things always feels like climbing mount everest to me, because as an artist that's how I'm hard-wired. I want the special and the romantic, not the mundane and realistic. I sorta have a complex with that though, because I was taught by my parents that I shouldn't really aim big lol that's just how I was raised you know and it's hard to shake that off.
Nobody had to tell me I was an artist/writer/buffer bard person. I knew it innately. I knew it on such an innate organic level. Ever since I was fucking 2 dude!!!
And all my life I befriended other weirdos and loner outcast people that didn't quite fit in.
And sometimes, I forget who I am because we're all taught to be well rounded. The shy bard fag is taught that it's cool to like sports sometimes, and the dumb str8 male jock is taught that it's cool to like music as well. But that's just sort of how society tries to socialize us into being all the same. They like to see people that don't normally get along, start getting along because it's heartwarming. But in reality we all sorta just grumpishly follow our own stubborn, individualized paths. Real life isn't a GLEE episode, people.
It gives me energy and makes me happy to give my friends RPG stats and roleplaying abilities and to say 'what type of pokemon ashton is' and things like that. It's what I like to do, and like Esther Hicks said it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks or says about anything only what I think of it. So I hope I encouraged you to go your own way!!!
****** Composer and Artist and Self-help guru and self-created super-hero magical shaman bard,
Samuel J. Leonard
I approve of this advice.
BulletsAndDoves, do you know the main difference between a Logical type and an Ethical type? If everyone around the Ethical type had suddenly disappeared, he would be nothing; if everyone around the Logical type had disappeared, he would be a god.
You are build out of limbs and guts of others, we are built out of fire and stone.
Last edited by The Ineffable; 05-19-2011 at 03:28 AM.
everyone*
ILI (FINAL ANSWER)
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