Te and Fi

[Variant]

Can someone give me and example of using Te to convince Fi? or how Te balances Fi out? Any other examples using Fe/Ti or Se/Ni --> Si/Ne would help very much. Someone please help this derp out

[Aiss]

Me on Ti-PoLR (includes Te convincing Fi): http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...0&postcount=13 .

[uniden]

Well, I'm not sure if this in particular applies to all Fi types. But, I'll give it a shot.

Perhaps it's more that Fi types really want to work out their own understanding of things. So, they'll try to put together the facts and such in order to reach that sort of understanding on their own. They don't really appreciate anyone just barging in and showing telling them "this is how it is" necessarily. They won't really understand or be satisfied with it. If they do get this, they'll be suspicious how much they are really just accepting the explanation rather than really getting the truth.

Now, the thing about Te types is that they are rather good at giving these facts, these puzzle pieces Fi types are trying to put together as they are working things out. They are pretty good at giving these puzzle pieces at the appropriate times, if you will, as Fi types go looking for pieces. Perhaps it is that they would rather someone read the book rather then just accept their commentary on it.

Perhaps, this is what Fi types need and appreciate. This is just my idea, though.

[Sir Knight]

In my experience, I, being a Fe type, often take very strong, passionate stances on issues that are important to me. I see a problem and I side against it. I believe in my side. I know my side is right. But when it comes time to actually prove that rightness, I find that it's usually the other guy who has done his research and who has facts and logic backing his ideas, while my argument is little more than a mushy, amorphous pile of emotionality and appeals to pathos. Hence, I get curbstomped because, while I feel passionately about my position, I don't have any support for it or, in the worst of cases, have no real conception of what it is I'm supporting.

Ti, as a function, is all about looking at the random chaos that assails one each day and picking out the constancies, using them as building blocks for a solid, rigid logical structure. In this way, Ti helps Fe. It takes Fe's mushy, amorphous emotionality and gives it structure, giving form to an otherwise formless passion. In this way Fe's stance becomes more than just empty sound and fury, and becomes something with a real power to persuade since not only is it right, but it's also correct.


Now Fi does exactly the same thing for Te except the roles are reversed.

I'm not entirely sure how they differ in that reversal, but, yeah.

[stray]

I know my side is right. But when it comes time to actually prove that rightness, I find that it's usually the other guy who has done his research and who has facts and logic backing his ideas, while my argument is little more than a mushy, amorphous pile of emotionality and appeals to pathos. Hence, I get curbstomped

If you "know" your side is right, don't even bother engaging with someone who's only there to dispel you and thinks they're entitled to all of the logic and research. Why give them the power to set the rules? Why play their game at all.. A time for knowing is when you should be more concerned with curbstomping them first. And then explaining yourself afterwards, if you must.

And if the issue isn't at that important (when you don't really "know"), keep the peace. Send a clear message that it's all good, avoid the bullshit, avoid being their rival, and stop the argument before it even gets ugly. That or humble yourself and simply listen. You don't have to get curbstomped.

[Sir Knight]

If you "know" your side is right, don't even bother engaging with someone who's only there to dispel you and thinks they're entitled to all of the logic and research. Why give them the power to set the rules? Why play their game at all.. A time for knowing is when you should be more concerned with curbstomping them first. And then explaining yourself afterwards, if you must.

And if the issue isn't at that important (when you don't really "know"), keep the peace. Send a clear message that it's all good, avoid the bullshit, avoid being their rival, and stop the argument before it even gets ugly. That or humble yourself and simply listen. You don't have to get curbstomped.

Yeah. Years ago I began to learn this. After getting curbstomped one too many times in arguments, I promised myself that if I didn't know what I was talking about or had no credible evidence to give support to my feelings, then I should probably just hold my tongue until I do have evidence and know what I'm talking about. This policy has worked rather splendidly.

If I do feel like posting something when I feel I don't know what I'm talking about, I try to be up front about my lack of knowledge and let people know that I might just be talking out of my ass. This policy has also worked rather splendidly.

As to "knowing," well, I suppose I meant that in the sense that I'd have this cognitive bias of, "I feel strongly about this, so therefore I must be correct and they must be wrong." Which is a really dangerous tendency that I've been working to correct for. After all, if my opponent has all the logic and the facts, then obviously my argument isn't right at all, now is it?

I mean, really, to put it in the simplest possible terms, it's just nice when your beliefs are justifiable.

[Lobo]

I don't think those questions make much sense, unless you are talking about a Te-ego convincing an Fi-ego? You can either address an Fi subject, communicate in that "language," or divert the focus towards another IE (in your case Te) for that particular situation. At least that's how I see it.

[EyeSeeCold]

I don't think those questions make much sense, unless you are talking about a Te-ego convincing an Fi-ego? You can either address an Fi subject, communicate in that "language," or divert the focus towards another IE (in your case Te) for that particular situation. At least that's how I see it.

Yeah but he's asking for examples.

Persuasion works on a psychological level cause you can't argue with the complementary. That's why we have Role and Dem functions to resist.

[Beautiful sky]

They offer the other view of something, usually the external objective view, as opposed to how I do things, which is from my internal subjective evaluation that leaves out a lot of external dynamics which I did not observe. They offer the facts necessary for me to come to my own subjective conclusion, that is what Fi is, subject's own closeness/distances to the object based on a quality that is not always directly observed in the object as it is without the subjective "feeling" or the subjective additive (the object as it is). TeNi types don't offer much in terms of relaxing, they offer a lot of the same things TeSi does, which is information from the huge storehouse of gatherings on various interesting topics they accumulate that on.

Let's take something ordinary and aesthetic; my new dining room table took months for me to pick out the perfect one. My LSE worked out all the details from both Te and Si giving me the external workings, how each one worked for the space from an external/general point of view. Finally, convincing me that the neutral tone table was the best fit because of the contrasting colors and space availability.

LSE: "The dark wood table goes very well with the floor tile and color of the walls."
Me: Why is it that that's all I need to be convinced?
LSE: Because it's logical.
Me:

To be honest, I do so much more convincing to Te types than they do to me. They have to convince me to live in the moment and enjoy things now when I'm emotionally down from a situation that's sunk in, but I have to tell them that people don't see them as terrible people and that they are productive. I have to convince them to look within themselves to find a sense of satisfaction from the efforts they are vesting in their work because any little comment from other people outside themselves, get them down about them.

Maybe we just need someone to affirm the choice we already made but didn't have enough guts to go along with our own gut feelings?

LSE types are decisive, that's why I can make a decision with them. At any given moment, an LSE can factor in all (I mean ALL) parts of a problem, all factors to come up with the right course of action.

[ashlesha]

Well, I'm not sure if this in particular applies to all Fi types. But, I'll give it a shot.

Perhaps it's more that Fi types really want to work out their own understanding of things. So, they'll try to put together the facts and such in order to reach that sort of understanding on their own. They don't really appreciate anyone just barging in and showing telling them "this is how it is" necessarily. They won't really understand or be satisfied with it. If they do get this, they'll be suspicious how much they are really just accepting the explanation rather than really getting the truth.

Now, the thing about Te types is that they are rather good at giving these facts, these puzzle pieces Fi types are trying to put together as they are working things out. They are pretty good at giving these puzzle pieces at the appropriate times, if you will, as Fi types go looking for pieces. Perhaps it is that they would rather someone read the book, if you will, rather then just accept their commentary on it.

Perhaps, this is what Fi types need and appreciate. This is just my idea, though.

this makes a lot of sense to me.

its sort of like this trust thing. if somebody tries to help out with answers that just "are because they are" or something then that seems sort of shady to me, like they could just be making anything up. but for somebody to pull stuff from the external - in other words, something that i can see just as well as they can - and make a case for it that way, or give me the pieces to put together from that external information, it seems more trustworthy. i think this is how Te gets the rep for just being disconnected "facts" or whatever. but i think it can be cohesive, its just that it pulls from the world of stuff that everybody can access.

Te balancing Fi out. i think there's lots of different scenarios in which it could but a couple that come to mind based on my experiences (and i'm not sure exactly how they fit into theory) - i might have a feeling about some person or thing that is given more nuance and perspective by the data offered by a Te type. or i might be spinning myself in circles over a situation and how to deal with the emotions of myself and others when it comes to said situation, and a Te type can come in and basically say: this is what the situation comes down to in a cost-benefit kind of way, these are your options based on the real world. and then i can stop spinning and i find some grounding from which i feel capable of dealing with things. its awesome.