Base function: personal strength, interpersonal blind spot?

[pianosinger]

wdyt? I was thinking about this the other day...

My Si-Base father-in-law is very good at making himself comfortable, creating physical pleasures for himself. Sometimes to the point of not realizing that others are not comfortable. For instance, he turns up the heat in the wintertime to where he likes it as he walks around in a sweater, but someone else (okay, me) may be sweating in a T-Shirt. But he never thinks to ask if everyone else is comfortable, he just assumes that they are, since he is.

My Fi-Base mother cares so much about proper ethics, and following tradition, that she doesn't even understand the point of view that some traditions are dumb; and that if a tradition or two fall by the wayside, it's not the end of the world.

My Te-Base father is intolerant of uneducated people. He can't seem to understand that some people really can't help being stupid.

My Ni-Base husband is so forward-thinking, and has all these solutions figured out for various societal/economical problems; but he's in no position for his voice to be heard, and he gets so frustrated with world leaders who seem to have failed to see what he sees so clearly.

My Se-Base sister is so good at getting her way, and idk, maybe she's actually glad that others aren't as adept in this area as she is, haha. But, she gets so over-the-top, "loud" and assertive, and she can't see that some people may find her behavior self-serving. Instead, she probably thinks that so-and-so just doesn't have an opinion, because they're not being assertive about it.

My Fe-Base brother-in-law is always wanting to get the family together to play a game or do something else as a group, uniting in fun and laughter (or even in argument). He has a hard time letting go of this desire for togetherness, to accept that sometimes people would just rather do their own thing.

My Ti-Base brother, if you get him started talking about something he's interested in, can talk for ages on the subtleties and technicalities of music, language, what-have-you. It can get really boring to some who are not as inclined towards those things, but he just carries on talking as long as he's allowed to, oblivious to the fact that everyone else in the room is not just as fascinated as he is with the subject at hand.

As Ne-Base, I get so wrapped up in some new and exciting project, that I don't even realize that so-and-so is looking down on me for not finishing something else that I started before. And I realize that I have unfinished projects, but to me it's really no big deal; either they'll get done someday, or they won't, but life goes on.

[ashlesha]

sounds like a matter of the base function being so familiar and obvious to people that they assume other people see things similarly. theoretically whether its an interpersonal problem would depend on the intertype relationship.

but yeah i've also noticed that people often use their ego functions in self-serving ways (i dont think thats a bad thing or whatever) and wondered how that comes into play in terms of intertype relationships and "providing" functions to others or however it goes. maybe it has to do with how self-interested a person is regardless of type.

i dont know

[FDG]

Uh, that's what your duals are for, especially their 7th and 8th functions.

[ashlesha]

Uh, that's what your duals are for, especially their 7th and 8th functions.

to balance out your behavior, is that what you mean?

[pianosinger]

Uh, that's what your duals are for,

Well, of course. I figured that went without saying...

especially their 7th and 8th functions.

How so? How are a Dual's 7th and 8th functions more important for one's Ego than the 5th and 6th?

[FDG]

to balance out your behavior, is that what you mean?

Yes, I think so, especially the 7th function, since it's always the opposite E/I version of your dual's base. The 8th function would balance a dual's creative (which can be even more of a blind spot than the base, IMHO - that's why we have a PoLR).

How so? How are a Dual's 7th and 8th functions more important for one's Ego than the 5th and 6th?

No, I personally believe they come into play when your dual base and creative are being overdone, just as you show in your first post. Normally they can't be used, since otherwise a dual relationship would turn into conflicting, yeah.

[pianosinger]

Yes, I think so, especially the 7th function, since it's always the opposite E/I version of your dual's base. The 8th function would balance a dual's creative (which can be even more of a blind spot than the base, IMHO - that's why we have a PoLR).

No, I personally believe they come into play when your dual base and creative are being overdone, just as you show in your first post. Normally they can't be used, since otherwise a dual relationship would turn into conflicting, yeah.

Okay, I can see all that.

[EyeSeeCold]

True relation is an illusion, we are all narcissists.

[krieger]

My Ti-Base brother, if you get him started talking about something he's interested in, can talk for ages on the subtleties and technicalities of music, language, what-have-you. It can get really boring to some who are not as inclined towards those things, but he just carries on talking as long as he's allowed to, oblivious to the fact that everyone else in the room is not just as fascinated as he is with the subject at hand.

this would never happen to me in a real life situation. i always err on the side of saying too little out of a sense that people won't find stuff interesting anyway.

[tcaudilllg]

We use the base as a means to the improvement of the state of our strong EM elements. Thus when using it, we tend to give half the world a pass, paying it little heed.

[ashlesha]

True relation is an illusion, we are all narcissists.

WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE
RUNNIN ROUND LEAVING SCARS
COLLECTING YOUR JAR OF HEARTS
AND TEARING LOVE APART
YOURE GONNA CATCH A COLD
FROM THE ICE INSIDE YOUR SOUL

[golden]

.

[EyeSeeCold]

WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE
RUNNIN ROUND LEAVING SCARS
COLLECTING YOUR JAR OF HEARTS
AND TEARING LOVE APART
YOURE GONNA CATCH A COLD
FROM THE ICE INSIDE YOUR SOUL

I think I'm human. Too human.

[Crispy]

I've noticed this tendency with both Alpha and Beta Ti-egos, although exactly how it manifests in each type and each individual differs, and there may be different reasoning behind the strategy/behavior.

Labcoat's quote matches well with the first sentence for LII DS on wikisocion:

Being a naturally private person, the LII finds it difficult to believe that others would be interested in what he is thinking or feeling at any given moment.

compare this to LSI's DS first sentence:

Being entrenched in logical, systematic thinking processes, LSIs need others to create an emotionally inclusive atmosphere where they know they are accepted and liked.

[golden]

.

[DividedsGhost]

wdyt? I was thinking about this the other day...

My Si-Base father-in-law is very good at making himself comfortable, creating physical pleasures for himself. Sometimes to the point of not realizing that others are not comfortable. For instance, he turns up the heat in the wintertime to where he likes it as he walks around in a sweater, but someone else (okay, me) may be sweating in a T-Shirt. But he never thinks to ask if everyone else is comfortable, he just assumes that they are, since he is.

My Fi-Base mother cares so much about proper ethics, and following tradition, that she doesn't even understand the point of view that some traditions are dumb; and that if a tradition or two fall by the wayside, it's not the end of the world.

My Te-Base father is intolerant of uneducated people. He can't seem to understand that some people really can't help being stupid.

My Ni-Base husband is so forward-thinking, and has all these solutions figured out for various societal/economical problems; but he's in no position for his voice to be heard, and he gets so frustrated with world leaders who seem to have failed to see what he sees so clearly.

My Se-Base sister is so good at getting her way, and idk, maybe she's actually glad that others aren't as adept in this area as she is, haha. But, she gets so over-the-top, "loud" and assertive, and she can't see that some people may find her behavior self-serving. Instead, she probably thinks that so-and-so just doesn't have an opinion, because they're not being assertive about it.

My Fe-Base brother-in-law is always wanting to get the family together to play a game or do something else as a group, uniting in fun and laughter (or even in argument). He has a hard time letting go of this desire for togetherness, to accept that sometimes people would just rather do their own thing.

My Ti-Base brother, if you get him started talking about something he's interested in, can talk for ages on the subtleties and technicalities of music, language, what-have-you. It can get really boring to some who are not as inclined towards those things, but he just carries on talking as long as he's allowed to, oblivious to the fact that everyone else in the room is not just as fascinated as he is with the subject at hand.

As Ne-Base, I get so wrapped up in some new and exciting project, that I don't even realize that so-and-so is looking down on me for not finishing something else that I started before. And I realize that I have unfinished projects, but to me it's really no big deal; either they'll get done someday, or they won't, but life goes on.

To be honest, this mostly suggests to me a neurotic pre-engagement with the base and more DS to alleviate it, rather than having much to do with the ID. Just my opinion, yeah I know. OPINIONS OPINIONS

My Te-Base father is intolerant of uneducated people. He can't seem to understand that some people really can't help being stupid.

Yeah, he should tolerate them by accepting their predetermined stupidity, since stupid people have no free will.

[woofwoofl]

I have yelled "STOP GETTING EMBARRASSED!! YOU'RE EMBARRASSING ME BY BEING EMBARRASSED, SO STOP IT!" at people on various occasions when they were ashamed of me being loud that and I don't always know what to do with shy people, my first instinct is to move forward to them and get louder so they can do it too (I eventually learned that this doesn't always work )...

[nanashi]

I have yelled "STOP GETTING EMBARRASSED!! YOU'RE EMBARRASSING ME BY BEING EMBARRASSED, SO STOP IT!" at people on various occasions when they were ashamed of me being loud that and I don't always know what to do with shy people, my first instinct is to move forward to them and get louder so they can do it too (I eventually learned that this doesn't always work )...

nanashi (whose family is composed of introverts and people with sp instinct) grabs woofwoofl metaphorically and hugs the shit out of him.

[Cone]

Considering the Base operates as a person's native mode or orientation of understanding, it risks embedding itself as an implicit bias in comprehension. With unchecked overemphasis leading to a diminutively constricted grasp on reality where too much is crammed through it—i.e. "when your only tool is a hammer, every problem begins to look like a nail." Culminating in psychological imbalance, neurosis, etc.

It's an easy trap to fall into since the Base is typically a natural psychological comfort zone. Especially so in absence of adaptive stressors to force other IEs into awareness.

I disagree that the dual's 7+8 fxns have any preventative role here. Rather, it should be the dual's Base that harmonizes your own.

Mm-hmm.

In addition, I want to address a few things in pianosinger's post, though:

My Si-Base father-in-law is very good at making himself comfortable, creating physical pleasures for himself. Sometimes to the point of not realizing that others are not comfortable. For instance, he turns up the heat in the wintertime to where he likes it as he walks around in a sweater, but someone else (okay, me) may be sweating in a T-Shirt. But he never thinks to ask if everyone else is comfortable, he just assumes that they are, since he is.

Well then, with you being -base, how does he help you with matters? Actually, his behavior here contradicts what an -base would be concerned with. If he is really -base, then he should be plenty concerned with understanding the comfort and physical well-being of others around him and rarely make errors in this regard.

As an interpersonal blind spot, the leading function should follow the pattern that Ashton described above. As an example, an -base person would consistently emphasize comfort, well-being, and following one's true desires in situations where that doesn't apply, such as in tasks which require strain and focus and "must be done" () and/or situations that are particularly urgent or require waiting ().

My Ti-Base brother, if you get him started talking about something he's interested in, can talk for ages on the subtleties and technicalities of music, language, what-have-you. It can get really boring to some who are not as inclined towards those things, but he just carries on talking as long as he's allowed to, oblivious to the fact that everyone else in the room is not just as fascinated as he is with the subject at hand.

Mm, this seems to me more like -leading behavior, in the sense of being "enthusiastic in talking about one's personal interests". But I'm not confident about that.

[rat1]

The base function can be used too forcefully. It also will make impulsive decisions. It's overestimated how "strong" the base function is. It's just the conscious function, that doesnt make it somehow stronger or more coherent than the other functions.

[krieger]

if we take the intertype relations as the arbiter of what is real in socionics, the thesis that it is actually the Creative function of the Supervisor that attacks the Base function of the Supervisee becomes tenable. this would render the Base function a vulnerable spot much like the PoLR associated with (i.e. conceptually identical to) the Creating function.

i like this idea, because it raises the view that there are "no safe havens" where functional use is concerned. it perfectly matches the intuition that people that over-engage in their Base function are actually behaving in a way that leaves them vulnerable to outside criticism rather than immune to it.

it also answers the question of: "if Creating function usage leaves one vulnerable, why ever engage in it at all?"