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Thread: ENTp-ISFp: Losing a Dual

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    Default ENTp-ISFp: Losing a Dual

    I've been lurking on this forum for a while, but I felt like I needed to post this. My ILE best friend died yesterday--he fell out of a fourth story window on shrooms. He lived in another city. We talked online/via videochat almost every day. He was often depressed, and he would say that only talking to me made it better. He had the same effect on me--when I was down, he somehow had a magical way of making everything seem okay. We only became close in the past year, after I moved away from the city in which we both had lived (I had gone to college there). We met b/c he was friends with my friends, but I never thought he would like me that much or that we were too similar. But we started talking online a lot over the summer after I moved, and then after that we were talking every day--it was around the same time that I discovered socionics, and this friendship really proved to me that socionics was real. Before, my russian college roommate had told me that me and this guy were "duals" and I just didn't know what it meant.

    About a month before he passed away, we took a miniroadtrip together. At one point, he made me climb a big hill that I didn't want to climb b/c it made my shoes wet, lol. But then after we got up there, we could see the whole town, and mountains. Then I wanted to climb a birch tree, so we climbed it and sat there for a while looking at the town. He thought it was a pity that we didn't hang out more before I moved, but I said that we had all the future to hang out together. I feel like I only learned how to say that b/c it's like something he would say to me to comfort me, if that makes sense--he always made me feel better about the future. I really feel like we "dualized" each other to an extent. I felt much stronger and more capable of a person having known him.

    I wonder if anyone had dealt with losing a dual in any way--whether it be a significant other that "dualized" you and then you guys broke up, etc etc. And what the best way to deal with that was, if any. Or, I don't mind just being...given permission to share crazy ILE stories about this guy and what he was like. He really was the epitome of that type. I miss him so much.

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    did your russian roomate talk from a socionics point of view?
    unholy water sanguine addiction

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    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
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    Yeah she did. She would refer to him as "don quixote" lol. Her mom taught her socionics from a young age.

    Since then, I've really familiarized myself with socionics and understand all the intertype relations, functions, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    About a month before he passed away, we took a miniroadtrip together. At one point, he made me climb a big hill that I didn't want to climb b/c it made my shoes wet, lol. But then after we got up there, we could see the whole town, and mountains. Then I wanted to climb a birch tree, so we climbed it and sat there for a while looking at the town. He thought it was a pity that we didn't hang out more before I moved, but I said that we had all the future to hang out together.
    Wow, that's crazy. You're lucky for this.


    Losing anyone close should be just as ... y'know. But if you're talking about idealization I guess a person who's complementary, both in Socionics and out, would have that effect.
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    I'm sorry. That's horrible. Death by experimentation is quite an ILE thing to do though

    The closest I've come to losing a dual is having a good friend/surrogate older brother move to the other side of the planet, but I had an SLE boyfriend at that point so it wasn't so bad. I wouldn't suggest you should, or ever could, "replace" him with another ILE, and having new ILE friends could make it hurt more, but regardless it would be moving on in a meaningful way, when you're ready. And it would be something that he's left you - the knowledge of what potential there is for love in this world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    I wonder if anyone had dealt with losing a dual in any way--whether it be a significant other that "dualized" you and then you guys broke up, etc etc. And what the best way to deal with that was, if any. Or, I don't mind just being...given permission to share crazy ILE stories about this guy and what he was like. He really was the epitome of that type. I miss him so much.
    You have permission. You don't even need to ask.


    I don't think there's an easy way to deal with losing anyone close to you. My SO would say that it's important to express your emotions. I'd add it's important to keep in mind what you need to do and find other ways to have fulfillment in life, so you don't drown in negative feelings.


    I've lost a dual in the sense of not being able to talk to them anymore in a real sense. We had a lot of good mental chemistry, but then things changed. It was a sense of dependability. It hurt because at the time I didn't have many other people to talk to closely. It also hurt because another part of that loss was that the dual sort of slipped into living in a way that made me feel uncomfortable, life choices I didn't think were good for them, and eventually hurt them, too.

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    Dual or not, it's always hard when you lose someone. And when someone you felt strongly attached to is gone, it's like a part of you is gone forever as well. But as Ryu said, you have to reconcile and find ways to provide fulfillment in your life, or otherwise you're screwed.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CILi View Post
    Are there any ways to go about this that don't involve tears and crying and stuff, or... is all that kinda necessary?

    (This post is 100% serious.)
    Catharsis is the point. Whatever you do, it needs to be an honest expression of how you're doing inside.

    Anything explosive, until you're drained of negative energy, and back to neutrality.
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    tears aren't necessary

    time usually is.

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    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
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    Thanks so much guys. I really really appreciate it.

    I agree that losing anyone is hard, especially so suddenly. It's probably true that socionics doesn't have much to do with it. I've been dealing by forcing myself to eat, sleep, and seek out company when I need it.

    My ILE friend was very crazy and "fun" but there was also a dark, unwell side to his craziness. He abused drugs often, including ones that he was prescribed for ADD/depression. Despite this, everyone who knew him (and he seemed to know everyone) knew him as an extraordinarily loving person who had a talent for bringing brightness into other people's lives.

    Crazy stories:

    Once, some other friends and I were on our way to grab Indian food when we ran into him sitting on a bench on the street. We asked if he wanted to come with, and he had nothing better to do, so he decided to hang out with us. Once we got there the waiter served us water. Next thing I know, he's downed all the water in a single gulp. Then, he takes out a single shot size bottle of Jim Beam from his pocket and pours it right into the goblet at the restaurant, and sips that for the rest of the time while making conversation. He never even ordered food lol. Halfway through he gets bored again and pulls out a tiny mini laptop and just starts checking his email. Then, he tries to convince me that it's "the way of the future" and that I had to buy one too haha.

    This other time, he somehow found a 21 year old folk musician who had just come into the city with no aim or place to stay. This guy was super talented and resembled a hotter version of young Dylan. So my friend hooks him up with some people at my school, saying that "talent needs to be nourished." He even tries to convince my poet roommate to write lyrics for the guy to "help him reach his potential." And then the musician stays in these guys' dorm for three months, does nothing, and randomly leaves again.

    Another time he was taking a bus between Boston and Nyc. The busdriver drops everyone off at burger king; then, he doesn't realize that my friend's taking his time eating and just leaves without him. My friend then hitchhikes at 110 mph with a random mother/son and actually catches up to the bus and makes him get off the highway and stop and let him back on. He gets on the bus and grins at the busdriver; the busdriver just shrugs.

    He loved to cook and he knew I did too, so he would always tell me his favorite recipes. But he always wanted everything his way, like only he knew how to cook everything best!! It drove me crazy because I can't stand anyone telling me how to prepare food. But he really wanted to cook together so we did. The first time, I cooked dinner for him, but he fell asleep the whole time I was cooking instead of helping me!! The second time, he was cooking lunch for me, but he made me do all the cutting and stuff while he just directed and carried out his "vision"!! I didn't mind b/c i love cutting vegetables, but it was so funny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CILi View Post
    Are there any ways to go about this that don't involve tears and crying and stuff, or... is all that kinda necessary?
    You could always resort to alcohol and drugs and stuff.

    But no, I don't think anything is necessary. Not all people are predisposed to crying or find comfort in it, so I wouldn't consider that a necessity. I think the way you go about expressing your sorrow (and feelings in general) depends on your personality. Your feelings are a personal thing, so you should handle them in a way that works for you as an individual. And whatever works for you, is "a way". If you feel like crying, go ahead and let it out. If you feel like going into the woods and screaming at the top of your lungs, do it. If you think a bottle of wine will calm you down, have one. But whatever you do, don't give into the negative feelings and let them take control over you. It is important to remain composed, because you don't wanna lose your mind. Because if you do lose your mind, you will likely begin doing irrational and self-destructive things. And once you're on a roll with self-destructive actions, it can be very hard to hit the brakes. And you don't want to come to a point where someone (or rather something) else is driving your car, if you know what I'm saying. And to add on that, you CAN technically come to a situation where someONE else is driving your car, because in moments of weakness, you're an easy target for those who can find use or see potential benefits in your car. (Metaphorically speaking, of course, although you could even apply it literally.)

    And to quote someone I don't remember, "Death ends a life, not a relationship". Point being, your feelings don't need to change or die, and it doesn't mean you should forget about the person in order to reconcile with their death. You take what you had (- the relationship) and carry it with you. You preserve the good things, leave aside the bad things, and move on with your life.

    /preach
    Last edited by Park; 05-03-2011 at 07:40 AM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Dual or not, it's always hard when you lose someone. And when someone you felt strongly attached to is gone, it's like a part of you is gone forever as well. But as Ryu said, you have to reconcile and find ways to provide fulfillment in your life, or otherwise you're screwed.
    so so true.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    Another time he was taking a bus between Boston and Nyc. The busdriver drops everyone off at burger king; then, he doesn't realize that my friend's taking his time eating and just leaves without him. My friend then hitchhikes at 110 mph with a random mother/son and actually catches up to the bus and makes him get off the highway and stop and let him back on. He gets on the bus and grins at the busdriver; the busdriver just shrugs.
    LOL this is awesome!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    But whatever you do, don't give into the negative feelings and let them take control over you. It is important to remain composed, because you don't wanna lose your mind. Because if you do lose your mind, you will likely begin doing irrational and self-destructive things. And once you're on a roll with self-destructive actions, it can be very hard to hit the brakes. And you don't want to come to a point where someone (or rather something) else is driving your car, if you know what I'm saying. And to add on that, you CAN technically come to a situation where someONE else is driving your car, because in moments of weakness, you're an easy target for those who can find use or see potential benefits in your car. (Metaphorically speaking, of course, although you could even apply it literally.)

    /preach
    Oops, I neglected this point in my own post. It's true that there're people out there who can't handle themselves once they let loose, and so some way to ease the tension and squeeze out the negative emotions rather than explosion would be best.


    I still don't think you should internalize too much...you have to get mad sometimes...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    This fight is disqualified on grounds that contender 'Te' is not .
    Who, EyeSeeCold?

    I don't know him that much, but his signature does radiate the feelings of a static type. ILIs may be lazy, but they are mobile and fluctuative.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

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    Lemontrees, did you two ever date each other?

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    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
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    Indeed we did not.

    I really liked that though; it made me feel safe.

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    Fell out of a 4th story window on shrooms.. sounds like an ILE way to die. Anyway, sorry for your loss.

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    For the longest time, I had a best friend that was my dual. We got along really well but I had a problem with her lying. You know how ISFPs tell little white lies to avoid getting into trouble or any conflict? Well, she would lie to me sometimes. I guess I didn't know for sure if she was lying but I knew that sometimes the things she told be didn't add up. Usually, though, I would just shrug it off and move on except for the lie she told that resulted in our fall out. She married my cousin about 6 months before he deployed. When he left for Afghanistan, she told him that she was raped. He didn't believe her because he knows about her white lies. I decided to give her the benefit of the doubt, though, and I encouraged him to do the same. He was pretty mean to her while he was deployed. I think being away from her and the stress of deployment messed with his head. Well, she ended up running to the arms of her ex boyfriend. She denied for the longest time to me and to my cousin that she was cheating. Finally when my cousin returned, though, she told him and then he told me. She and I were friends since 6th grade and she was lying to me after I told my cousin off about how he was treating her and pretty much told her that she was in the right. I just couldn't be friends with such a big liar anymore and I haven't talked to her since. Sometimes it hurts not having a best girlfriend anymore. But I guess that's life.

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    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
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    Filambee--

    I'm so sorry! That sounds truly awful. I think it can sometimes be worse to lose a friend in that way--to lose your trust in them. I hope you don't take that experience to be representative of all SEIs...

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratsshadow View Post
    Fell out of a 4th story window on shrooms.. sounds like an ILE way to die.
    No way, sounds like Si-PoLR to me. I know this kind of bold people who feel they can handle everything pushing things too far, those hyperactive young guys who climb mountains or travel through many countries without a penny in their pockets, to prove themselves and others how good they are. I also think such acts of bravery are pathetic ways to "dualize" females (not saying they universally *are* pathetic, but these are my feelings for them). No opinion on his type but not everything crazy is ILE - mind the "ILE bias" which people make, not the theory.
    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    Yeah she did. She would refer to him as "don quixote" lol. Her mom taught her socionics from a young age.
    Yeah, Socionics is like piano. One takes lessons since a young age to become a virtuoso.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    Thanks so much guys. I really really appreciate it.

    I agree that losing anyone is hard, especially so suddenly. It's probably true that socionics doesn't have much to do with it. I've been dealing by forcing myself to eat, sleep, and seek out company when I need it.

    My ILE friend was very crazy and "fun" but there was also a dark, unwell side to his craziness. He abused drugs often, including ones that he was prescribed for ADD/depression. Despite this, everyone who knew him (and he seemed to know everyone) knew him as an extraordinarily loving person who had a talent for bringing brightness into other people's lives.

    Crazy stories:

    Once, some other friends and I were on our way to grab Indian food when we ran into him sitting on a bench on the street. We asked if he wanted to come with, and he had nothing better to do, so he decided to hang out with us. Once we got there the waiter served us water. Next thing I know, he's downed all the water in a single gulp. Then, he takes out a single shot size bottle of Jim Beam from his pocket and pours it right into the goblet at the restaurant, and sips that for the rest of the time while making conversation. He never even ordered food lol. Halfway through he gets bored again and pulls out a tiny mini laptop and just starts checking his email. Then, he tries to convince me that it's "the way of the future" and that I had to buy one too haha.

    This other time, he somehow found a 21 year old folk musician who had just come into the city with no aim or place to stay. This guy was super talented and resembled a hotter version of young Dylan. So my friend hooks him up with some people at my school, saying that "talent needs to be nourished." He even tries to convince my poet roommate to write lyrics for the guy to "help him reach his potential." And then the musician stays in these guys' dorm for three months, does nothing, and randomly leaves again.

    Another time he was taking a bus between Boston and Nyc. The busdriver drops everyone off at burger king; then, he doesn't realize that my friend's taking his time eating and just leaves without him. My friend then hitchhikes at 110 mph with a random mother/son and actually catches up to the bus and makes him get off the highway and stop and let him back on. He gets on the bus and grins at the busdriver; the busdriver just shrugs.

    He loved to cook and he knew I did too, so he would always tell me his favorite recipes. But he always wanted everything his way, like only he knew how to cook everything best!! It drove me crazy because I can't stand anyone telling me how to prepare food. But he really wanted to cook together so we did. The first time, I cooked dinner for him, but he fell asleep the whole time I was cooking instead of helping me!! The second time, he was cooking lunch for me, but he made me do all the cutting and stuff while he just directed and carried out his "vision"!! I didn't mind b/c i love cutting vegetables, but it was so funny.
    This is a great story. I know I'm a few months late, but thanks for sharing and I'm sorry for your loss.

     
    Also, Parkster, CILi and Ashton are lowlife douchbags.
    Last edited by glam; 12-17-2011 at 05:21 AM. Reason: spoilering

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterNi View Post
     
    Also, Parkster, CILi and Ashton are lowlife douchbags.
     
    Fuck you, asshole.
    Last edited by glam; 12-17-2011 at 05:22 AM. Reason: spoilering
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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