Originally Posted by
Dolphin
So there is this idea that Silverchris brought up a while back that I have been playing with in my mind for a while. Somehow I thought when he said the object focus worked on multiple levels that he was going to go on to talk about Se, but he didn't really. Anyway, you'll get the gist of his idea better if you read the whole thread, but I tried to include the parts most relevant to my thoughts.
So anyway, I liked the whole concept of the inner observer, etc. However, I do not believe it is necessarily related to intelligence. People have a lot of different justifications for their value systems, and a lot of different perceptions of events, and I've seen a lot of different kinds utilized. And one thing I think is that people do not all use this method of perception that Silverchris describes. Ni/Se are truly "perceiving" functions. Ni is encompassing. It connects events. It is, in its most literal form, a certain kind of timeline, with patterns emerging from that timeline. I modified "timeline" with "certain kind" because I believe Si also functions as a timeline of sorts.
From this I believe I have pinpointed the nature of Se.
The thing about objects, is that each node of perception, situation, object, whatever, is it's own thing. It's perceived as something with no other connectors. Now, you may have the other functions of the Se person coming in and modifying this direct perception, but the fact is is that Se people will still have a distinctly direct experience that is not automatically connected to other experiences. They also are as double involved (I believe?) as Ni is double detached.
Se in action (perhaps this is how Ni DS manifests, so here you go Silverchris): it takes work to connect the dots. It takes work to compare things to past experiences and a lot of strained effort. It's not something an Se person's mind automatically jumps to. For their mind to jump back to a similar situation, they will also remember all the other situational perceptions connected to that situation, and since they view all the perceptions in an object way, it may be hard to separate what elements are meaningful and which aren't. Their perception is literally a whirl of separated perceptions. Ni perception is something that is longed over, but trying to control it can be a pain. Ni is not, literally and metaphorically (score for Model A!) "conscious". I have observed over a period of time (hah) that it emerges correlation free and is not just something you muster with force of will. That is the thing. Se understands force of will. It's something we're quite good at. It's "conscious". I can control my actions and my perceptual animal drive out of sheer willpower when my perceptions are diving around like little imps RAWR-ing at everyone and just ready to react at a moment's notice. But that still doesn't mean I have a great idea of what my perceptions signal or how to separate the relevant ones from irrelevant. The most workable solution is simply don't react, which doesn't mean the perception goes away, it just means perhaps you react in private, or you channel the intensity of perception into something else. But it's more of a quick fix. The long term implications of suppressing that simply makes a perpetually angry person. The long term solution is Ni. Instead of suppressing and rerouting, you simply place all those perceptions into their proper category, perspective, timeline, structure, and suddenly they look pretty damn understandable, if not insightful.
It is nice when you get an Ni valuer and then those observations sort of settle into their proper meaning. But when things get too perceptual and object heavy it can be hard to organize perception into something coherent. It's akin to the Ni head up in the air thing.
What I've found is that it helps to try to give myself some Ni. Quite literally, I make a timeline. I write some of the multitude of discrete perceptions that are going through my head. I usually can't get all of them, but I get enough out to function again. The hardest part is waiting till the next day. And then things will happen that will be totally different. And I will write them down. And either understand exactly, because the specific situational qualifiers give me enough meaning that I'm there again, or, I can be thinking "wtf? Did I really perceive that?"
You might be rolling your eyes and "d'oh"ing at this, thinking "Well, of course things are different, it's a different time", or I don't know. But it's just something that I've learned that I perceive. Perceptions are so information heavy that the Se person doesn't question what they're experiencing directly. That's what's annoying about Ne people. They offer an alternate viewpoint, but it's just this random alternate thought. It's not connected to anything. That's why Se and Ne conflict. Ni doesn't question Se perception, as much as it just puts it in a timeline category so the perceptions start to find a hierarchy of priority. I feel almost proud of myself when someone really likes a certain perception that I didn't think anything of. On the other hand, I worry that my perceptions are wrong, or strange, or innappropriate, or too vehement or emotional, so I have the tendency to suppress them. The most frustrating thing is to have someone else casually reference the perception I had passed by. But I see now that it isn't necessarily worth the frustration, because my hierarchy of importance may be different than theirs, and I need to lessen the instinct to try to gain other people's approval.
I do think that there are other important things than type, but I have to admit that I think there is some validity to Socionics because I feel better when I read Ni writing. I think that on another level though, people have to be compatible on an actual level of "deepness" (not a value judgment, trying to communicate..density of experience, importance placed on emotions, perceptions, values, things that Socionics doesn't categorize)..so you can have unintelligent Se people, but you also have their unintelligent Ni counterparts to go with them. I've had a few people where we had the same level of "deepness" but had different functions, so the communication sucked at times and translating perceptions was pretty screwy. I thought before that you need the same "deepness", not complimentary types, but now I'm not sure. I think a combination duality and "deepness" would be optimal, but I'm not sure.