View Poll Results: What's his type?

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8. You may not vote on this poll
  • ILE (ENTp)

    1 12.50%
  • SEI (ISFp)

    0 0%
  • ESE (ESFj)

    1 12.50%
  • LII (INTj)

    2 25.00%
  • EIE (ENFj)

    0 0%
  • LSI (ISTj)

    0 0%
  • SLE (ESTp)

    0 0%
  • IEI (INFp)

    0 0%
  • SEE (ESFp)

    2 25.00%
  • ILI (INTp)

    0 0%
  • LIE (ENTj)

    0 0%
  • ESI (ISFj)

    0 0%
  • LSE (ESTj)

    0 0%
  • EII (INFj)

    0 0%
  • IEE (ENFp)

    0 0%
  • SLI (ISTp)

    2 25.00%
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Thread: What's his sociotype?

  1. #1
    WE'RE ALL GOING HOME HERO's Avatar
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    Default What's his sociotype?

    t
    Last edited by HERO; 05-10-2011 at 12:12 AM.

  2. #2
    WE'RE ALL GOING HOME HERO's Avatar
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    Just so you know, this guy is not, I repeat, NOT "the ex." Therefore I have no preconceived notions regarding his type, since I only knew him from the Internet. I never actually met him in person. I'm still curious about his type (via Visual Identification or somatotype or whatever it's called). This time I'll let you decide, and for what it's worth it wasn't me that voted for SEE (although SEE is possible in spite of my never considering it, yet I wouldn't mind some "evidence" or an explanation of some sort).

    To be honest, I don't remember much about him. I think he might be in law school now. He definitely had quite an encyclopaedic knowledge regarding the Bible and many things. I remember how my "ex" once wrote on his facebook wall how he went to see a psychic who told him about his past lives, and this guy I'm showing you pictures of said, "How can you believe in this kind of stuff?" or something like that. That's what makes me think that he's more likely one of the Skeptical types: Te-ego, Ti-ego (but not ENTp), or Si-dominant . . . I could be wrong. He could still be a Feeling (ethical) type, and ESFp is possible.

    He studied philosophy, theology, music, law, etc. Here's something he once wrote to me:

    'Hi [lazybones].

    It's good to hear from you; although I must admit that I am concerned. First, I need to address the fact that your email, although quite informative, is also very chaotic, and so I may miss some thing that you were trying to say. Also, I'm attempting to be very, very clear and unambiguous, and so I may, possibly, come across as slightly terse or blunt. This is to avoid misunderstandings.

    I am not sure what is going on with you, or your life right now. I know that you dated (long-distance) "[the ex]". I know that it didn't end well. Appearantly, "[the ex]" isn't a very nice guy. That's too bad; the world is full of people who aren't nice, unfortunately. Also, this whole chapter in your life appearantly really did you some emotional, mental, and spiritual harm, and I am sorry that this happened to you. I can't pretend to know how to solve those problems, though. If anything, I'm just an outside observer, viewing a situation through a blurred, distorted, and dirty window. You're the only one who can work through these traumas, [lazybones].

    Now, about my video dealing with Effeminancy. I had hoped what I meant by the word "effeminancy" was clear. Anyway, what I meant was men, deliberately, and consciously, taking on aspects or characteristics that they percieve to be "feminine", in order to enhance their identity as something more "feminine" than what they are. I'm not talking about how high your voice is, or what kind of music you like, or your talents or interests, unless you chose them because you want to be more akin to a woman. I personally think that I have a high, girly voice; but I don't think I'm effeminant. I'm not the most athletic of people, or the most muscular of guys; but I don't think that I'm effeminant. I don't like most sports, nor beer, smoking, or doing stupid, dangerous things for the "thrill" of it; but I don't think that I'm effeminant. I didn't consciously choose these things, so that I may appear more like a woman. That is all I meant about "effeminant". Most guys are turned off by men who deliberately try to act more like women; and this causes a point of dissonance in any dealings between the straight and gay population. That was the point of the video.

    Also, I'm not sure what you may have done to loose my friendship. I did delete you from my facebook friends (which is where most of our contact has been) because you started sending me strange messages, that rambled, and had no real point, about things and people that didn't concern me. Kind of like this email. Now, I'm being blunt here. Your email (and past corresponances) have been odd at best. I have a thick skin, so I'm not upset by this, and I hope that I haven't upset you by being honest about this. I suspect that you are having manic-depressive episodes, and that you have no one that you can talk to. But I don't know your motivations for this email (or the past ones), but if you'd like to explain, then I'd welcome it.

    I couldn't care less what "[the ex]" said about me. Words neither break my bones nor pick my pocket. I'm fine. He can say what he wants to. But I have a question for you: Do you really "love" him? Or are you just associating and conflating your romantic ideals, dreams, and desires with him? I really don't think that exchanging emails, and phone calls or whatever can constitute enough data or experience which results in "falling in love". Romantic Love, is not just characterized by sexual desire, infatuation, or obsession; it's also characterized by a desire for the best--For you to want to treat the person exactly like you'd treat yourself. That you couldn't imagine living without that person. This may sound like an easy requirement in writing, but in reality, this is harder to achieve than one might think. Most people marry, but aren't in "love" but just in an obsession or infatuation, that's why most marriages dissolve. I think that you're obsessed or infatuated with "[the ex]", not "in love".

    The best way to move on, I think, is to continue with your life. You said that you and your mother moved to [Caprica]. Well, that's a new start. Use it for the best. Make new friends, and start a new life. I would seriously encourage you to continue your education. I believe that to be essential in anyone's life. It helps you to develop as a person, and to prepare for your own life, complete with some form of social mobility. You seem to be very good with psychology; perhaps you should consider going to college in order to become a psychiatrist.

    So now, [lazybones], this is up to you. It's your life, and the solutions will come from you. I hope that you're no upset with my response; but my response is where I'm at. I have had my own issues to deal with, and some of them I'm still dealing with. My family is a warzone, my father is emotionally absent, and yet highly demanding. My mother is in a state of perpetual self-pity; blaming everybody for her own problems, which leaves an almost tangeable presence in the house. The animal rots fromt head, supposedly, so that should indicate the undercurrent of disruption, anxiety, and anger that permeates my house. I'm barely tolerated there, as someone who is gay, as someone who doesn't believe in their religion, and as somebody who is intellectually above them (not boasting, it's just the plain truth), and as someone who doesn't handle authority well. I'm really kind of isolated socially because I don't make friends easily, and my expectations for friends and my value of friends is quite high. My best friend lives in *****, unfortunantly, and that's tough. They say that going to college is supposed to be the "social time" of your life. Perhaps if I lived on campus, I unforntately neither live on campus nor in the same city. So, I'm emotionally disconnected from the place I spend most of my time.

    I am also dealing with issues mainly involving my father. In the past he was very abusive, both phsyically, mentally, and emotionally. The physical abuse has let up now that I'm older (taller, and bigger than he is), and the mental abuse is all but gone. But he enjoys his emotional abuse, and his games of manipulation. I don't think that I will be able so solve my problems until I am out of their house, and fully self-sufficient.

    The point, in telling you all of this, [lazybones], is that everybody has problems, and some people have some quite serious mental and emotional problems. But they have to solve them for themselves. Nobody else can. I don't expect anybody to be able to solve my relational problems with my father. I think they're beyond repair at this point. But I can heal myself, if I get away from the stimulae, and MOVE ON. So that's what I'm doing, [lazybones]. What about you?

    Again, it's good to hear from you, but please remember, you are the only one that can solve your problems, and you're on the right track. Sorry if this came across as rude, or insensitve, or condencending; this is the truth as near as I can percieve it. Feel free to reply to any of the comments/statements I made, and I wll sincerely try to understand and reply in kind.

    Best, ***'


    Here's something else he wrote to me once:

    'I can tell you who you are: you're [lazybones]. You don't need to be someone else, or worry that you're becoming someone else. I think that you are a good person, and I think that you should be whomevere you are naturally. Let society think what it wants. I also wanted to take this moment to see if you understood that Bill ********* is not a god. He's just a man with his own opinions. You don't have to make your life conform to his prescription. I'm not sure if this is what's going on with your anxiety about your identity...whether you're "man" enough or not, but I suspect that it is. Just thought you should know.
    Best, ***'
    Last edited by HERO; 04-27-2013 at 11:11 AM.

  3. #3
    ഗന᎕ᒹ ±ᗉᚔXᙂഗ woofwoofl's Avatar
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    I'm picking up a Delta vibe here - there's a dislike for turbulence in the writing, and an outlook that comes off more Aristocratic than Democratic... the "calming" thing is present in the pics, as is the introversion, and the talk about finding the answers within yourself also points towards introversion... this leaves SLI and EII, and SLI seems far more likely to me...

  4. #4
    WE'RE ALL GOING HOME HERO's Avatar
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    Thanks. SLI is a definite possibility, and I'm glad you brought it up since I might not have really considered it on my own. And SLI is probably more likely than SEE, although I'd still like to explore more options. So here is some more info -- some of the music he likes:

    Daughtry, Relient K, Outlaws, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Kelly Clarkson, Carrie Underwood, Stacie Orrico, Across the Sky, Nichole Nordeman, Michelle Tumes, BarlowGirl, Imogen Heap, Keith Green, OneRepublic, Jason Mraz, Lady Gaga, Beyonce, Brendan James, etc.


    Here are some quotations from our correspondence from (March) 2009 (from this you can also sort of see the way I write to people as well). He is referred to as 'the guy' and *** [and what he wrote is italicized], while I'm lazybones --

    lazybones: "Hi ***,
    this is [lazybones] from ******** *****. Your info sounds very interesting. I always wanted to study music. I play piano a bit, I can sight-read okay, although I'm not a very good player. It depends. I used to compose things when I was younger, and I once took a course in music theory. I once took a test that said that I'm a musical thinker, that I think in music, or something like that. Anyway, you sound like a very dedicated, intelligent guy. Hope to hear from you.

    Yours Sincerely,
    [lazybones]."

    - 'the guy': "Hello, [lazybones]!

    How are you doing? Ok, I have to ask: Are you Russian? [I'm betting that you are] I read your posts on

    the site, and I was very impressed. Not many people are willing to open up about their sexual

    history/journey. I'm glad to see that you understand just how dire the situation is. If you're the average

    'gay' male into "anal sex", and you only have "anal sex" on the weekends [several times over those two

    days] and wear condoms, they will fail 10% of the time, a 1:10 chance to spread HIV. As you can see,

    eventually most 'gay' men will be dead of AIDS. It's really encouraging to see that some people have the

    courage to reject the cultural death wish! And to live like men, not pseudo-women.

    So, besides playing the piano, what other hobbies/interests do you have?

    Have a Good Day!

    Sincerely, ***"



    - lazybones: - lazybones: "Hello ***,

    I'm doing okay. My ancestry is definitely Russian on my maternal grandfather's side. I inherit his name

    because my biological father and my mother were never married, and I never knew my biological father.

    He lives in Romania [although he might be dead now], and my mother was also born and grew up in

    Romania. My maternal grandmother was Romanian, and my grandfather also had Ukrainian ancestry

    from his mother [my great-grandmother]. Yet I know virtually nothing about my biological father's side

    of the family. He may be part Macedonian [?].

    I'm glad that you liked my post. Unfortunately, I had some brief and superficial contact with

    guys into anal when I used to go to The Pride Centre in ******** years ago. Plus, as you probably know

    from my post, there was a guy I had a crush on, that I knew from my past before the Pride Centre, and

    he turned out to be an 'analist'. I was lucky, because I never had sex with anyone, so I was never really in

    a situation where I was at risk at doing anal with anyone. I'm also proud of the men, who although

    they've had (dreadful) experiences doing anal in the past, have decided to stop. Although I regret

    'experimenting' in the past, I don't plan on ever doing anal. It's interesting that you mention "the

    cultural death wish". Many males who do anal are programmed with a "cultural death wish" by their

    subculture, society, and environment. This "death wish" is supported and nurtured by their peers and

    role models who promote analism, effeminacy, and promiscuity and that's why Bill Weintraub and the

    Man2ManAlliance are so important in opposing that.

    Besides playing the piano, my hobbies/interests include reading books on personology/typology,

    philosophy, astrology, fiction, etc; listening to music; exercise: jogging, working out, etc; and using the

    Internet.

    I'm glad that you wrote to me, and hope you are doing well.

    Yours Sincerely,
    [lazybones].


    - 'the guy': "Hello [lazybones], it's nice to hear from you again!

    What exactly do you mean by 'personology'? Do you mean personology in psychology or personology in

    physiognomy? That's very unfortunate that you never knew your biological father. Did you at least have

    a father figure in your life?

    Also, something interesting that I was reading on one of the many 'gay sites' [this one specifically for

    'gay youth'] was that a lot of younger 'gays' are 'rejecting anal sex'. I'm not sure exactly how true that is,

    but if it is true, then that's a good sign. I don't know if it is true, if they also reject gender-bending, or

    hyper-feminine behavior.

    I am also a big reader, though, at the moment, my reading has been restricted to textbooks

    being used in my college courses. I'd like to get started on Plato's Symposium if I can get a

    chance.

    What kind of music do you like?

    Sincerely, ***"



    lazybones: "Hello
    I'm glad you wrote. I meant 'psychology' by 'personology', like the Myers-Briggs typology and stuff. I had my grandfather as a father-figure in the first five years of my life, and then my 'stepdad' from about 7-18. I never really had a very stable consistent strong father figure. I'd consider Bill ********* a sort of partial father figure for me or male role model, of course it's not the same thing as actually having a father. I tried writing to my biological father. He never wrote back. I might try again.
    I agree that it would definitely be a good thing if the younger generations of males/young men reject anal penetration. I think they will reject effeminacy and promiscuity more as well. What was the site?
    In my opinion there are many "straight-identified" men who have very strong same-sex attractions and feelings and a very strong masculine identity. Yet there are also many "straight-identified" men who have a weaker masculine identity, and prefer the company of women just as much or even more than the company of men. They tend to stress the importance of having a girlfriend more, and have had more girlfriends because they relate better with women than the more naturally masculine guys. And some of them could be considered 'effeminate' in comparison to their more masculine-identified brothers. Of course the less people are divided into "gay-identified" and "straight-identified"; or at least the less gay male identity is associated and linked with anal, promiscuity, and effeminacy; the better.
    I've read Plato's "Symposium" twice I think. It's very good.
    When it comes to music I'm not sure if I have that great taste. I'd be interested in what kind of music you like. A list of bands/artists I've listened to includes The Arcade Fire, Matthew Good Band, Neil Young, Our Lady Peace, Sufjan Stevens...

    Yours Sincerely,
    [lazybones]"

    - 'the guy': "Okay, I've never heard of psychology referred to as 'personology' before. That's very interesting. That's good that you've at least had some sort of father figure in your life. My father's here, but he's not emotionally available. He expects us [his kids] to make the right choices, and he'll give advice if asked, but that's about it. He's also a fundamentalist Christian, and needless to say, I don't agree with a lot of his theological opnions, but I tend to keep those to myself.
    Also, I don't remember what that site was unfortunately...I was goofing off between classes, and forgot to bookmark it. All I know is that it was site tailored to 'gay youth'.
    Well, I haven't heard of any of those bands/groups...but taste/preference is relative. I tend to listen to rock, pop, a little country, and 'christian music'. E.g. bands like Daughtry, Relient K, Outlaws, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Kelly Clarkson, Carrie Underwood, Stacie Orrico, Across the Sky, Nichole Nordeman, Michelle Tumes, Barlow Girl, Imogene Heap,Keith Green, OneRepublic, Jason Mraz among others. I'm kind of a music junkie.heeheehee. I also like Spanish/Latino music.
    So, here's two questions for you: 1) What type of books do you like to read? 2) You said [I think] that you are interested in astrology. Do you actually come up with horoscopes?
    Sincerely, ***"


    lazybones: "Yeah, maybe I was stretching the definition of the term "personology" . . . Perhaps the term for this kind of stuff is loosely 'typology', yet I'm not really an expert at keeping track of the correct terms for things. Myers-Briggs. Socionics. They're essentially in the same domain of knowledge to me.
    Families are seldom perfect. People can't always rely on their blood relatives to enlighten or help them, although family is still a good and important part of life. Perhaps your father's personality is more Thinking (logical) than Feeling (ethical). Perhaps an ISTJ or ISTj, once again more Myers-Briggs/socionics stuff. I understand, my 'stepdad' was essentially a fundamentalist Christian -- Jehovah's Witness background. I think it's good to have a good relationship with one's parents, yet I think it's even better to also find people who genuinely support you, and who are not just 'copies' of your family background, so to speak. Good male role models and friends (including the 'father-figure' yet not limited to) are important, and often hard to come by in our society. Yet it's part of becoming a masculine warrior and fighter. I wish I had more innate confidence in myself though.
    I really like your music. There are a lot of artists and bands I've never really listened to much. It's interesting to hear new things. I'm a music junkie too. To my list I'd probably also add Radiohead, PJ Harvey, Kathleen Edwards, a bit of 50 Cent . . . Nine Inch Nails, Metric, and Bob Dylan.
    I wish I read more often. I'd like to think that I like all kinds of books, yet maybe I'm more limited than I'd like to believe. I have interests in philosophy, astrology, some psychology I guess so that would consist of some of my reading. I've also enjoyed reading quite a bit of classics and modern classics in the past -- George Orwell, Jack London, Fyodor Dostoevsky, Aldous Huxley, Gore Vidal, etc. I like essays; I often like introductions to novels; interviews. Like I said, I'm not a very devoted reader so there's probably a lot I've missed. I also like plays -- Arthur Miller, Euripides . . . I used to think that I'd like to be a scriptwriter or screenwriter.
    I like astrology a fair bit, yet the only charts I 'make' are the ones on www.astro.com they make for you through the birth information (date, time, location) you input. Interestingly, though, I have made attempts at drawing hypothetical charts based only on a person's birthdate by guessing their rising sign. I am also fairly interested at looking up and researching interpretations.

    Here's an example of a Sufjan Stevens song:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1l_b...rom=PL&index=2

    There's also this personality test I'd recommend you take when you have the time:
    http://www.socionics.com/sta/sta-1-r.html?0:::

    Yours Sincerely,
    [lazybones]."

    - 'the guy': "Hi, [lazybones]! It's good to hear from you. I took that test that you sent me. It was really hard because it said I was being contradictatory. [I once took a previous personality test that gave only 4 basic types. On that test my introversion/analytical side was equal with my extroversion/leadership side]. So after, I tried my best to clear up any "contradictions", which still left some anyway, I was told that my personality type is 'The Observer' (INTp). Then I read up on the characteristics of INTp's, and it was somewhat true for me. The only thing I thought was weird, and kind of bordering on 'pseudoscience' was when it tried to describe how their body is. My body didn't match at all. However, overall, it was very interesting. Do you happen to know what your personality type is, according to socionics?

    Also, I understand the power of a role model. It sucks that most people don't want to step up to the plate, and take responisbility for their actions. So, that really reduces the amount of people out there to look up to.
    I also read a lot, but it's now usually stuff related to my college classes.
    When you say that you wish you had more innate confidence in yourself, do you mean conviction or a sense of motivation? Because if you mean a sense of motivation, then that will come in time. It's just a matter of setting reasonable daily goals, and then accomplishing them.
    A lot of times I feel that my life is going no where, and that I'm not accomplishing anything of merit. It usually makes me depressed. But what I realize is that nothing worth acheiving is immediate; it all takes time. The journey becomes an experience worth participating in. Of course, that doesn't make it any less boring [in my case], but it does help me to get up in the morning."


    lazybones: {On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 6:56 PM, <[lazybones]> wrote}:

    "Hello ***,

    I'm an INFp (The Romantic) on socionics. Here are the basic delineations for INTp (Introverted/iNtuitive/Thinking/perceiving)

    'Introverts

    are interested in their own thoughts and feelings
    need to have own territory
    often appear reserved, quiet and thoughtful
    usually do not have many friends
    have difficulties in making new contacts
    like concentration and quiet
    do not like unexpected visits and therefore do not make them
    work well alone

    Intuitive types

    are mostly in the past or in the future
    worry about the future more than the present
    are interested in everything new and unusual
    do not like routine
    are attracted more to the theory than the practice
    often have doubts

    Thinking types

    are interested in systems, structures, patterns
    expose everything to logical analysis
    are relatively cold and unemotional
    evaluate things by intellect and right or wrong
    have difficulties talking about feelings
    do not like to clear up arguments or quarrels

    Perceiving types

    act impulsively following the situation
    can start many things at once without finishing them properly
    prefer to have freedom from obligations
    are curious and like a fresh look at things
    work productivity depends on their mood
    often act without any preparation'
    http://www.socionics.com/main/types.htm

    I'd also recommend you take this Myers-Briggs test to see how it compares to your socionics.
    http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

    It's great that you're reading a lot in college. What courses are you taking? I guess it makes sense that confidence would come in the pairs of conviction and motivation, and I think that I need more of both, particularly a sense of motivation. I don't know if you've ever written anything on ******** *******, so that could also help you. It's great that you're in college and studying. Have you ever taken any martial arts?"

    - 'the guy': {Subject: Re: music of the spheres
    To: [lazybones]
    Received: Monday, March 23, 2009, 5:11 PM}
    "Hi, [lazybones], it's good to hear from you!
    I just wanted to let you know that after I took that personalatity test [the socionics one] it didn't feel quite right. It described my somewhat, but it seemed to to miss a lot. So, this weekend I had my dad take the test, and watching hims do it, I realized that I rushed it a bit, and didn't consider the meanins of the word choices as carefully as I should have. So, today I went back and took my time, and really made sure I understood exactly what they wanted with each term. The result was similar to what I had before 'The Observer' [INTp], but the second time around, which was also the one I felt I understood more, and did carefully [with a lot of thinking about even my most basic and 'taken for granted' behaviors] was 'The Analyst' [INTj]. Then I took the Myers-Briggs test, and the results were the same [INTj]. They called it, though, 'The Mastermind'. Reading up on the characteristics on both sites was really funny, because it finally really described me!

    What is the characteristics of the 'Romantic'?
    Have a good day!
    ***"


    lazybones: {On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 10:59 PM, <[lazybones]> wrote:

    'Hi ***. I'm glad that you found a personality that really matches you. Here are some quotes on intj [Please Understand Me II by David Keirsey, pp. 199-200]:
    "As a variant of Plato's Rationals and Aristotle's Dialecticals, the INTJs are little different from the other NTs in most respects. Like all the Rationals, they are abstract in their communication and utilitarian in how they implement their goals. They choose to study science, are preoccupied with technology, and work well with systems. Their point of view is pragmatic, skeptical, relativistic, focused on spatial intersections and intervals of time. They base their self-image on being ingenious, autonomous, and resolute. They would if possible be calm, they trust reason, are hungry for achievement, seek knowledge, prize deference, and aspire to be wizards of science and technology. Intellectually, they are prone to practice strategy far more than diplomacy, tactics, and especially logistics. Further, with their schedule-minded nature, they tend to choose the Coordinator's directive role over the probing Engineer's informative role. And because they are reserved around others they seem more comfortable in the role variant of Mastermind than Fieldmarshal."
    "Masterminds tend to be much more self-confident than other Rationals, having usually developed a very strong will. Decisions come easily to them; indeed, they can hardly rest until they have things settled and decided. They have a drive to completion, always with an eye to long-term consequences. Ideas seem to carry their own force for them, although they subject every idea to the test of usefulness. Difficulties are highly stimulating to INTJs, who love responding to a problem that requires a creative solution. These traits of character lead them to occupations where theoretical models can be translated into actuality. They build data and human systems wherever they work, if given the slightest opportunity. They can be outstanding in scientific research and as executives in businesses."
    "INTJs are the highest achievers in school of all the types."

    Here are some links on INTJ. You might've already looked at them.
    http://keirsey.com/handler.aspx?s=ke...5&c=mastermind

    http://typelogic.com/intj.html

    Here are links for infp:
    http://keirsey.com/handler.aspx?s=ke...tab=3&c=healer
    In Myers-Briggs, I think, INFP is called the Healer.

    Here's a quotation from the book Portraits of Temperament by David Keirsey, pages 109, 110:
    "Healers: The Seclusive Advocates. When feeling seclusive the Advocates take up the task of wholeness and health of self and other. Their totem deity is Hygia, god of health, [or Chiron, the wounded healer] after whom they seek to fashion themselves. The more introverted, private, seclusive these Healers are, the more inclined to retreat periodically to private places to contemplate the mysteries of life, to examine their virtues and vices, to regain their humility, and in general to recover their threatened wholeness. Many have a subtle, but pervasive, tragic motif threaded through their lives, which comes from their often unhappy childhood. They live a fantasy-filled childhood which, though condoned and even encouraged by a few parents, is discouraged or even punished by most parents. In a literal-minded family, required by their parents to be sociable and industrious in concrete ways, and also given down-to-earth siblings who conform to these parental expectations, such introverted Advocates come to see themselves as ugly ducklings. Other personalities usually shrug off parental expectations that do not fit them, but not the introverted Healers. Wishing to please their parents and siblings, but not knowing quite how to do it, they try to hide their differences, believing they are bad (as their parents often tell them) to be so fanciful, so unlike their more solid brothers and sisters. They wonder, some of them for the rest of their lives, whether they are OK. They are quite OK, just different from the rest of their family -- swans reared in a family of ducks. Even so, to realize and really believe this is not easy for them. Some must atone for this evil they have been taught is in them, must somehow sacrifice. With this project of undoing comes a certain fascination with the problem (peculiar to introverted Healers) of good and evil, sacred and profane, pure and sullied, virginal and pregnant. They are drawn toward purity, but they continuously look over their shoulder for the violation that stalks them."

    I was also wondering what your birthday is, your zodiac sign? I hope you're doing well with college.

    Yours Sincerely,
    [lazybones].'

    - 'the guy': "It's kind of funny when you read about your personality, at least in my case. When I read about the

    INTJ 'Mastermind/Analyst' personality type, it makes me sound almost like a 'pragmatic robot'. But I

    tend to see it a bit differently. I'm not emotionless or even cold. Most people think I'm funny, and I can

    be really goofy or weird when I get excited. However, there are times when I could zone out, and

    somehow be "inside myself" even in a crowded and noisy room. Then sometimes I can be kind of

    distant, but that's around people I don't know. So I guess that makes me a "pragmatic funny distant

    somewhat emotional robot". heeheehee!

    So, are you saying you're a INFP 'The Healer'? If so, then you're almost the same as me, but that you

    tend to "feel about things" than "think about things", if I'm understanding the concepts correctly [and

    assuming you're a INFP] . . .

    Have a very good day, [lazybones]!

    Sincerely, ***"



    - lazybones: {On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 1:47 AM, <[lazybones]> wrote:}

    "I'm an INFp (Romantic/Lyricist) in socionics, and an INFP (Healer) in Myers Briggs. Here's another page that describes your personality.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical...tive_Introvert

    . . . Here's a summary for INFp:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intuiti...ical_Introvert

    I hope you enjoy the rest of your school week.

    Yours Sincerely,
    [lazybones]."

    - 'the guy': "That's very intersting!
    . . . Yeah, hopefully I will enjoy the rest of the school week! I'm going to have a lot of homework to do this weekend, so I'm not looking forward to it! [Blah!].
    Have a good weekend, as well!
    ***"


    lazybones: 'Actually, I'm an Aquarius born on the cusp, that is the 29th (the last) degree of Aquarius. Yet my Progressed Sun is in Pisces, and will stay there until my 30's when it will 'progress' to Aries . . . What is your homework on?

    I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend.

    Here's a quote from the Sabian symbol for the last degree of Aquarius:

    29-30 deg Aquarius

    "Deeply Rooted In The Past Of A Very Ancient Culture, A Spiritual Brotherhood In Which Many Individual Minds Are Merged Into The Glowing Light Of A Unanimous Consciousness Is Revealed To One Who Has Emerged Successfully From His Metamorphosis" '

    - 'the guy': "Oh, I had to read a chapter [very big chapter] in geography. It wasn't too hard. It was on 19th century extractive mining in the Pacific Northwest [California, Washington, Oregon, British Columbia, Alaska, and somewhat into Idaho, South Dakota, and Colorado]. Then I had to read a couple chapters in my philosophy textbook; mainly on the problem of induction, moralistic relativism, the creation of values systems, and the limitations of rational thinking. Besides that, I did some math homework. I still have a lesson left to do before Wednesday. So, basically my weekend was spent doing homework. [SIGH] Also, one of my younger brothers decided to go off to a friends without letting anybody know where he was going, so I had to spend over an hour looking for him. So, how was your weekend, [lazybones]?
    ***"


    lazybones: "Sorry for taking so long to write to you.. I've always wanted to study philosophy. How many siblings do you have . . . ? My weekend was okay.

    [lazybones]"

    - 'the guy': "That's okay!
    I have [brace yourself!] * ******** *** * ****** . . .
    Do you have any siblings?
    ***"


    lazybones: "I don't have any siblings unfortunately. I do have three cousins: ******, ******, and *********. They live in Europe. I had contact with them a bit when I was younger. Sometimes I wish I had siblings. Being an only child isn't always fun.

    [lazybones]"

    - 'the guy': "Yeah, it gets kind of lonely by yourself. But on the other side of the coin, having so many siblings can be a real pain in the neck!!!
    Are you going to college? If so, what are you majoring in?
    ***"


    lazybones: "I can imagine having many siblings can be difficult.
    I'm not in college yet. I've been thinking that I might like to major in architecture. Other interests include philosophy, literature, English, music, arts, history... I'm not sure.

    [lazybones]"
    Last edited by HERO; 04-28-2013 at 04:04 AM.

  5. #5
    silke's Avatar
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    ILI/SLI is quite likely, he does sound Fi+Te

  6. #6
    WE'RE ALL GOING HOME HERO's Avatar
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    First of all, I'd like to say that I'm not trying to take away from other people's contributions/insights/interpretations. Yet this is the way I see things -- I may be wrong.

    “First, I need to address the fact that your email, although quite informative, is also very chaotic, and so I may miss some thing that you were trying to say.”

    http://www.socionics.us/theory/rat_irr.shtml

    • “Rational Types are drawn to stable, reliable systems and situations.” Rational types have “more stable psychic states.” One of their strengths is “keeping things under order.”

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...lity#Rationals

    1. Rationals have “Low stress tolerance.”

    From what I can remember of him on Facebook, I’d say that’s definitely true, just I personally I found it to be expressed in a logical Fe-seeking manner.
    I think he’s INTj.

    Ekaterina Filatova, Understanding The People Around You: An Introduction To Socionics (Hollister: MSI Press, 2006), 71:

    - p. 71 [THE ANALYST: Thinking-Intuitive Introvert (TII)]: “Analysts are poor at sensing emotional subtleties. Due to this, Analysts behave very restrainedly, so as not to fall into a situation where they are badly oriented. This is why they prefer to keep their distance from others and dislike familiarity, intimacies, or whining. Analysts would rather offer concrete help, including monetary assistance, where needed.

    I am not good at consoling other people; I tell them phrases which I myself consider unsuitable. When other people console me, it irritates me in the same way; I even perceive such words as formality rather than real compassion. In fact, I do not need such words, or, more precisely, it depends on who tells them. For this reason, I consider psychoanalysts to be quite useless people.

    Often, Analysts appear cold and unemotional. However, this is more a mode of behavior than the nature of this type. They can hide a rich emotional spectrum and great anxiety behind a mask of austerity."

    ‘the guy’: I'm not the most athletic of people, or the most muscular of guys; but I don't think that I'm effeminant. I don't like most sports, nor beer, smoking, or doing stupid, dangerous things for the "thrill" of it . . .

    Sergei Moshenkov and Wing Tung Tang M. Sc., MBTI and Socionics: Legacy of Dr. Carl Jung (Lexington: USA, 2010/2011), 73-74:

    - pp. 73-74 [INTj - The Scientist]: “Se – Is one of the INTj’s nightmares. It takes a large energy charge for the INTj to hold his ground, assert his will and take up social space. Any attack on this function is remembered for a long time as a painful echo. Any victory however is cherished as a best memory. Depending on the subtype INTj’s try to compensate for their lack of Se with a strong Fe, Si or Ti – so instead of taking an upper hand in situations, they attempt to reason out their demands, instead of taking up social space by virtue of Se tactics . . . they exhibit colorful emotions to attract attention . . .”

    ‘the guy’: When I read about the INTJ 'Mastermind/Analyst' personality type, it makes me sound almost like a 'pragmatic robot'. But I tend to see it a bit differently. I'm not emotionless or even cold. Most people think I'm funny, and I can be really goofy or weird when I get excited . . . So I guess that makes me a "pragmatic funny distant somewhat emotional robot". heeheehee!

    Here’s how Betas view Alphas:

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...a_Quadra#Alpha

    “Betas tend to regard Alpha types as pleasant company, fun and creative, but too goofy . . . In groups, starts to dominate and there is a lot of active laughter as the Betas tell loud stories, and the Alphas make goofy suggestions for entertainment.”

    Ekaterina Filatova, Understanding The People Around You: An Introduction To Socionics (Hollister: MSI Press, 2006), 71:

    - p. 71 [THE ANALYST: Thinking-Intuitive Introvert (TII)]: “They brighten noticeably when talking to an intellectual partner; they feel confident on this ground.
    In relationships . . . Analysts do not feel confident, are often afraid of showing their feelings, and are concerned about looking silly, even when talking to their boyfriend or girlfriend. One Analyst woman gives the following example:

    I was walking on an old stone fence that I was afraid to jump down from, and my boyfriend (an Analyst) was too shy to even offer me a hand!


    - ‘the guy’: Let society think what it wants.

    . . . I'm glad to see that you understand just how dire the situation is . . . It's really encouraging to see that some people have the courage to reject the cultural death wish!

    . . . He's also a fundamentalist Christian, and needless to say, I don't agree with a lot of his theological opnions, but I tend to keep those to myself.

    When you say that you wish you had more innate confidence in yourself, do you mean conviction or a sense of motivation? Because if you mean a sense of motivation, then that will come in time. It's just a matter of setting reasonable daily goals, and then accomplishing them.

    The nature of valued introverted Thinking:

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...roverted_logic

    ‘Types that value naturally question the consistency of beliefs that are taken for granted in everyday life. They strongly prefer to make decisions based on their own experience and judgement, as opposed to relying on external authorities for knowledge, which they believe to be a last resort, a necessary evil. They also have little respect for people with ambiguous or wishy-washy opinions, believing that a sense of internal certainty is necessary for orienting oneself in life. To these types, not all beliefs are created equal, so neutral consideration of them is an inherently flawed proposition. Qualifications such as "it is claimed that" only serve to obscure the true importance and validity of a statement.’

    ‘the guy’: I'm barely tolerated there, as someone who is gay, as someone who doesn't believe in their religion, and as somebody who is intellectually above them (not boasting, it's just the plain truth), and as someone who doesn't handle authority well.

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...verted_Sensing

    The LII hates being ordered what to do, and chafes especially under orders that don't make sense to him. In such cases the LII is likely to criticize the authority — but if he does he is not subtle about it, and usually ends up being marked as a "rebel" and feeling even more frustrated than he did to begin with. An LII works best alone, so that he doesn't have to subordinate (to) others — or constantly negotiate his priorities, which strains his patience and diverts his time and attention away from reworking his understanding; if he is forced to waste time defending what he already knows, he gives up the freedom to deepen his understanding further. He does not tolerate pushiness combined with close-mindedness.’ [emphasis mine]

    ‘the guy’: I'm really kind of isolated socially because I don't make friends easily, and my expectations for friends and my value of friends is quite high.

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...LII_and_LSI.29

    ‘He holds highest those rules to which exceptions do not exist, and is a habitual critic of people or things that don't follow a set of rules, whether they are those accepted by the community, or his own, or even the other person's. Although he is able to adopt others' rules, his own are always the last word, and these are subject to continual refinement.
    Often seen as "demanding", due to high standards.’ [emphasis mine]

    ‘the guy’: “ . . . you started sending me strange messages, that rambled, and had no real point, about things and people that didn't concern me.”

    Ni-demonstrative

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...rted_Intuition

    “The LII has an active imagination, but it tends to fade in and out and its products are rarely verbalized. He hardly ever says purposely cryptic or idiosyncratic things, and criticizes others for employing overly obscure concepts.”

    Also remember that this guy was skeptical about that psychic that my ex posted about on his facebook wall talking about the past lives she claimed 'the ex' had:

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...LII_and_EII.29

    “He usually dismisses supernatural claims as being silly, wishful thinking, unless they happen to be related to the very specific religion he feels inclined to believe in and which he may be inclined to make part of his leisure activities.”

    I’d say that although 'the guy' didn’t decide to be particularly religious, I believe that he held some belief in God, probably as conceptualized from the Christian faith, and perhaps a stronger belief than I have had in the past years. Yet truly, I don’t know what he really believed or didn’t. An INTj is still quite a skeptical type about many things, a lot more so than the INFp for example.

    ‘the guy’: I'm attempting to be very, very clear and unambiguous, and so I may, possibly, come across as slightly terse or blunt. This is to avoid misunderstandings . . . I don't know your motivations for this email (or the past ones), but if you'd like to explain, then I'd welcome it.

    http://www.socioniko.net/en/articles/lytovs-intro3.html

    ‘Introverted logic is also called Systematic Logic, or Structural Logic.
    This type of logic is inertial. Instead of “making things work”, it rather focuses on elimination of contradictions, on systematization, or in more general meaning – on “justice” (if it only exists). The types for which this function is dominant are often not too energetic, they are rather stable-mooded, work without noticeable “falls” and “rises”, logical and reticent in their sayings and deeds. On the one hand, other people respect them for being “just”, for their cold and sober analysis of situations; on the other, they do not “feel people” well.’

    ‘the guy’: Again, it's good to hear from you, but please remember, you are the only one that can solve your problems, and you're on the right track. Sorry if this came across as rude, or insensitve, or condencending; this is the truth as near as I can percieve it. Feel free to reply to any of the comments/statements I made, and I wll sincerely try to understand and reply in kind.

    ‘the guy’: I also wanted to take this moment to see if you understood that Bill ********* is not a god. He's just a man with his own opinions. You don't have to make your life conform to his prescription.

    To be honest, this actually strikes me as being Democratic. Just so you know, I’m almost 100% sure that Bill ********* (activist, social theorist, advocate) is EIE-Fe (Aristocratic and Decisive). And I don’t think ‘the guy’ (***) is Fe-PoLR. I think they had a better intertype relation than that. They’re from neighboring quadras, and are semi-duals. They both thrive on the structure (and rules) of Ti, yet Bill being Beta is more dogmatic and ideological (not that all Betas are like that, yet I find that whatever they believe they tend to be a lot more passionate/forceful/intense/poetic(al)/stubborn/fixed/militant/almost war-like about). The main difference is that Alphas are a lot less ‘war-like’ and more Democratic (yet still Ti – structure, rules, justice, laws, systems, categories, etc.).

    ‘the guy’: "I can tell you who you are: you're [lazybones]. You don't need to be someone else, or worry that you're becoming someone else. I think that you are a good person, and I think that you should be whomevere you are naturally."

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...mocratic_types

    "Democrats have the ethical and sensing IM elements in the same blocks of Model A."

    “ . . . the Democratic reasoning focuses on observations on a case-by-case basis, that is of the individual they happen to be interacting with at the moment (). A focus on does not lead to creating logical structures, but to forming stable connections to persons on [an] individual-to-individual basis, and in that case there is no point to, and no inclination for, considerations of whether the observed reality of the person fits into a broader logical structure of a group ().”

    ‘the guy’: Appearantly, "[the ex]" isn't a very nice guy. That's too bad; the world is full of people who aren't nice, unfortunately.

    . . . I personally think that I have a high, girly voice; but I don't think I'm effeminant. I'm not the most athletic of people, or the most muscular of guys; but I don't think that I'm effeminant.. . .

    The point, in telling you all of this, [lazybones], is that everybody has problems, and some people have some quite serious mental and emotional problems. But they have to solve them for themselves. Nobody else can.

    . . . Again, it's good to hear from you, but please remember, you are the only one that can solve your problems, and you're on the right track.. . .

    Well, I haven't heard of any of those bands/groups...but taste/preference is relative.

    He also used the word “people” a lot, as opposed to any particular group, like, say, men or elders or what have you.

    ‘the guy’: It sucks that most people don't want to step up to the plate, and take responisbility for their actions. So, that really reduces the amount of people out there to look up to.

    Not many people are willing to open up . . .

    It's really encouraging to see that some people . . .

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...atic#Democrats

    ‘Democrats
    1. Perceive and define themselves, and others, primarily through individual/personal qualities: interesting, pleasant, unpleasant, good-looking, etc, not in connection to any group they may belong to.
    2. Form their relationships/attitudes toward other persons based on the latter's own individual characteristics, not with base on their relationships to groups of any kind, nor on their relationships to representatives of such groups.
    3. Not inclined to perceive their acquaintances as representatives of a certain "circle of contacts" that supposedly possesses qualities inherent to people of that circle.
    4. Not inclined to use expressions that generalize group features.
    Example: an individual building up his circle of personal connections, within an organization, that totally bypasses or ignores the organization's formal structure, but not with that circle being perceived as any kind of group or unit by any of the persons involved.’

    Yet people might say that ‘the guy’ brought up the category of “effeminant” and “effeminancy” – isn’t that a group. Well, I say “No – not in this particular case.” ‘The guy’ is referring to “individual/personal qualities.” He even mentions some of his own “individual/personal qualities” yet separates them from “effeminancy” in part due to his unique individual Ti/Ne perspective: I personally think that I have a high, girly voice; but I don't think I'm effeminant. I'm not the most athletic of people, or the most muscular of guys; but I don't think that I'm effeminant.

    Everything he is referring to is “individual/personal qualities”, not groups. Yet one must remember that he is being influenced by an ideology ‘created’ by a [Aristocratic] Beta – Bill ********* (EIE-Fe). ‘The guy’ is young, yet he’s still not as “image conscious” as a Beta would be. A Beta would never have written what ‘the guy’ wrote – Betas are too insecure. They either belong to the “group” or they don’t – there is no in between, no compromise. You’re either with us or against us. Yet I don’t think a Delta would have written what he wrote either, since they’re also Aristocratic, and they wouldn’t focus on “individual/personal qualities” as much as he does, and they would also be more “objective/objectivist/Serious.”
    So a young LII ‘adopts’ a ‘Beta-flavored’ system from a semi-dual who is more than 40 years older than him, yet he still maintains his Alpha independence, which should be clear. I didn’t have that ‘independence’ and ‘confidence’, and perhaps I was more ‘tortured’ and ‘internally conflicted’ than other INFp’s were or would be. As an INFp I am more of a follower, yet Alpha NT’s have their very strong Ti and categories – yet not in an Aristocratic sense.

    Here’s a quotation regarding the ENTp --

    Ekaterina Filatova, Understanding The People Around You: An Introduction To Socionics (Hollister: MSI Press, 2006), 81:

    - p. 81 [THE SEEKER: Intuitive-Thinking Extravert (ITE)]: "Seekers love to ponder things – this trait is a characteristic part of their nature:

    When we met, he surprised me with the profundity of his thinking. He deduced the laws of the universe and divided all of humankind into different categories."


    Now I’m not saying that I agree with this [Bill's] particular ideology. I don’t in large part, except for maybe one or two rules that weren’t mentioned in this thread that I (personally) [still] hold fast to. (Yet of course I don't think that makes me a better person or anything.) And I haven’t had contact with Bill ********* since 2009. Yet I think it’s quite common for Betas and Alphas to borrow, share, adopt, and adapt each other’s theories, ideas, ‘religions’, ideologies, rules, systems, etc. From Betas it might be ‘a way of life’ or ‘ideology’ that is consistent with an Alpha’s (ideal) lifestyle and/or ideals, and from Alphas it might be a theoretical system, a way of seeing things or categorizing things that intrigues a Beta.
    Now I think it’s important to note that my ex-boyfriend perceived ‘the guy’ as “bubbly”, even ‘loud’ I think. I find it very hard to believe that that could equate with Fe-PoLR.

    ‘the guy’: I'm not emotionless or even cold. Most people think I'm funny, and I can be really goofy or weird when I get excited.

    So I guess that makes me a "pragmatic funny distant somewhat emotional robot". heeheehee!

    My family is a warzone, my father is emotionally absent, and yet highly demanding.

    I'm emotionally disconnected from the place I spend most of my time.

    My father's here, but he's not emotionally available.

    The way he writes strikes me as Fe-seeking as opposed to Fe-PoLR.

    Fe-seeking (suggestive/5th function):

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...LII_and_LSI.29

    “The individual often becomes engrossed in serious work, which leads him to neglect his complementary need for fun and emotional release. He also feels vulnerable expressing himself spontaneously in public, which allows bad emotions and stress to build up, leading to depression or sudden hostility. He enjoys being around people who make him feel comfortable expressing himself, and who can make every day new and exciting.
    Although he may present a hard exterior in the company of strangers, he is likely to not be serious at all with people who know him better. His behavior changes radically - a calm and serious structured person will suddenly become jovial and warm.”

    ‘the guy’: It's just a matter of setting reasonable daily goals, and then accomplishing them.
    A lot of times I feel that my life is going no where, and that I'm not accomplishing anything of merit. It usually makes me depressed. But what I realize is that nothing worth acheiving is immediate; it all takes time. The journey becomes an experience worth participating in. Of course, that doesn't make it any less boring [in my case], but it does help me to get up in the morning.


    Ekaterina Filatova, Understanding The People Around You: An Introduction To Socionics (Hollister: MSI Press, 2006), 70:

    - p. 70 [THE ANALYST: Thinking-Intuitive Introvert (TII)]: “Analysts cannot stand being forced to do something. If they disagree with their boss’s orders, they’ll continue to argue their viewpoint and may get flustered, although they try to remain tactful.
    It is hard for them to do dull, everyday tasks. However, they try to finish everything they plan. They schedule not only their workday, but also their leisure time . . . Analysts prefer an orderly life . . . They do not like garish styles and bright colors . . .”

    It’s funny because when I was in the Spectrum Youth program in the first half of 2010, and I still had ‘the guy’ as a friend on Facebook at the time, and I posted something on my Wall: “formal wear tomorrow.” The two people who hit ‘Like’ (the thumbs up) were both of the Ij temperament: my Aunt (ISFj) and ‘the guy’ (INTj).

    The Classical composer Sergei Rachmaninoff is typed LII (INTj):

    http://www.socionics.us/celebrities/lii.shtml

    [Rick:] “Created musically complex, but melodically rich compositions. Suffered from melancholy after emigrating from Russia before the Bolshevik Revolution. People who knew him later in life would describe him as the saddest person they had ever known. Intensely private.” [emphasis mine]

    'Numerous sources indicate that he never had problems speaking his mind and would not soften his remarks or demeanor to be more "pleasing" as ethical types tend to do . . .'

    “He was calm, cold (without being mean), ironic and seemed to warm up only in the company of close friends.”

    Now back to the question of Fe-seeking vs. Fe-PoLR.

    Fe-seeking:

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...averted_Ethics

    ‘Being a naturally private person, the LII finds it difficult to believe that others would be interested in what he is thinking or feeling at any given moment. He feels like something is not quite right if his interaction with the people around him is too aloof. However he only rarely makes an effort to venture into more open spheres, because he usually avoids making small talk, preferring to talk about his real interests and say only what he truly believes.
    To this end, the LII, above all things, appreciates others' attempts to get him to "open up" emotionally and express his true thoughts and views of the world - not just as an abstract ideal living in his head, but as something that other people actually care about enough to participate in and bring to fulfillment. His focus on important abstract matters also leads him to detach from the world, if it is not complemented with a healthy dose of silliness. The LII is usually oblivious to his emotional-psychological state and feels little responsibility for improving it, not to mention the state of others. This means that "bad emotions" can build up in him until some environmental factor comes along to alleviate them. Visible demonstrations of emotional warmth play a major part in this: something as simple as a big smile and a hug is enough to brighten an LII's day. The LII can be attracted to insincere displays of affection, even if he consciously realizes that they are only in jest.
    The LII is often at a loss for what to do in social situations, and appreciates others who make him feel included in a new group and in the emotional side of a situation. The LII tends to take life very seriously, and appreciates others who can show him the lighter side of things.’

    ‘the guy’: I'm emotionally disconnected from the place I spend most of my time.

    Sergei Moshenkov and Wing Tung Tang M. Sc., MBTI and Socionics: Legacy of Dr. Carl Jung (Lexington: USA, 2010/2011), 75:

    - p. 75 [INTj - The Scientist]: “This function [Fe (extraverted Feeling/ethics] has many peculiar effects on the INTj, some become very emotional about technical topics . . . most are easily influenced by the emotions of the environment . . .”

    The influence of Fe is obvious, whether it’s Fe-seeking or Fe-dominant, or Fe-creative:

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...SEI_and_IEI.29

    “The person is sensitive to the emotional atmosphere around him, either from an individual, or a group, or even from inanimate objects such as the landscape, the state of the physical environment he happens to be in, or his own emotional associations with the place or people around him. A positive emotional atmophere is essential for his sense of well being and inner peace, and he either tries to promote it himself by directly influencing it around him, or by simply moving away from the environment or the people causing a negative emotional environment in his view.”

    ‘the guy: I have a thick skin, so I'm not upset by this, and I hope that I haven't upset you by being honest about this.

    I couldn't care less what "[the ex]" said about me. Words neither break my bones nor pick my pocket. I'm fine. He can say what he wants to.

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...averted_Ethics

    “Types that value like creating a visible atmosphere of camaraderie with other people. They enjoy a loose atmosphere where anything goes, where people don't have to watch too carefully what they say for fear of offending others. This means these types try not to be too thin-skinned, taking jokes with a grain of salt.” [emphasis mine]

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...overted_ethics

    ‘the guy’: "I'm not emotionless or even cold. Most people think I'm funny, and I can be really goofy or weird when I get excited."

    'So I guess that makes me a "pragmatic funny distant somewhat emotional robot". heeheehee!'

    "My family is a warzone, my father is emotionally absent, and yet highly demanding."

    "I'm emotionally disconnected from the place I spend most of my time."

    "My father's here, but he's not emotionally available."


    Contrast that with Fe-PoLR:

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...ILI_and_SLI.29

    ‘The individual tries hard to never let himself "come apart at the seams" emotionally or even let out strong feelings publicly, because displays of passion do not come naturally and make him feel self-consciousness and vulnerable to painful criticism. This makes the individual generally seem emotionally neutral and politely indifferent to excitement and agitation around him. The individual deeply dislikes attempts by others to get him to "cheer up" or "join the fun", especially in the context of group activities with loud emotional expression.’

    Sergei Moshenkov and Wing Tung Tang M. Sc., MBTI and Socionics: Legacy of Dr. Carl Jung (Lexington: USA, 2010/2011), 162-163:

    - pp. 162-163 [INTp]: “INTp’s are quite unpleasant due to the weakness of the Fe function. They are often cold, and calculative, leaving nothing to the human factor. They rarely smile, especially the inTp [Te-INTp (ILI-Te)] subtype.”

    Sergei Moshenkov and Wing Tung Tang M. Sc., MBTI and Socionics: Legacy of Dr. Carl Jung (Lexington: USA, 2010/2011), 179:

    - p. 179 [ISTp – The Mechanic]: “ISTp’s are often emotionally clueless.”

    I guess people could still try to argue that he’s Aristocratic, although I’m not sure why. Even the mention of the “straight and gay population(s)” is par for the course whenever someone (whether Aristocratic or Democratic) is discussing this subject matter since the former ‘dichotomy’ [one of many(?)], which may be perceived as an ‘unfortunate’ (or fortunate) ‘ideological crutch’, is so pervasive and entrenched in our ‘society’ that it is virtually unavoidable (and therefore has very little to do with ‘Democracy’ or ‘Aristocracy’ – instead it’s ‘cultural’).

    ‘the guy’: I suspect that you are having manic-depressive episodes, and that you have no one that you can talk to.

    But I have a question for you: Do you really "love" him? Or are you just associating and conflating your romantic ideals, dreams, and desires with him? I really don't think that exchanging emails, and phone calls or whatever can constitute enough data or experience which results in "falling in love". Romantic Love, is not just characterized by sexual desire, infatuation, or obsession; it's also characterized by a desire for the best--For you to want to treat the person exactly like you'd treat yourself. That you couldn't imagine living without that person. This may sound like an easy requirement in writing, but in reality, this is harder to achieve than one might think. Most people marry, but aren't in "love" but just in an obsession or infatuation, that's why most marriages dissolve. I think that you're obsessed or infatuated with "[the ex]", not "in love".
    You don't have to make your life conform to his prescription. I'm not sure if this is what's going on with your anxiety about your identity...whether you're "man" enough or not, but I suspect that it is. Just thought you should know.


    Ok, I have to ask: Are you Russian? [I'm betting that you are]

    When you say that you wish you had more innate confidence in yourself, do you mean conviction or a sense of motivation? Because if you mean a sense of motivation, then that will come in time.

    Sergei Moshenkov and Wing Tung Tang M. Sc., MBTI and Socionics: Legacy of Dr. Carl Jung (Lexington: USA, 2010/2011), 72:

    - p. 72 [INTj - The Scientist]: ‘Extraverted intuition as the creative function makes INTj’s very insightful, good at guessing, and brainstorming. New agers would say the INTj has a powerful third eye. Many intuitive subtypes have eyes with a mysterious twinkle when smiling, or a penetrating laser when looking serious. INTj’s “put two things together” very creatively and insightfully. They see reality on many levels. This description may seem generalized to those unskilled in Socionics, but when you meet a serious looking, pale, distant individual with penetrating eyes and an ability to guess everything you’re about to say – you can be sure he’s the intuitive INTj.’

    ‘the guy’: The only thing I thought was weird, and kind of bordering on 'pseudoscience' was when it tried to describe how their body is.

    Ekaterina Filatova, Understanding The People Around You: An Introduction To Socionics (Hollister: MSI Press, 2006), 69:

    - p. 69 [THE ANALYST: Thinking-Intuitive Introvert (TII)]: “An Analyst goes after ideas, not facts. Details are important to Analysts only when they concern the creation of a new system. They do not respect scientists who show <lots of emotion, but very little science>. Analysts support every single fact they state, and demand the same of others . . .”

    I think that it's important to recognize that when a person is first introduced to Myers-Briggs and/or Keirsey (tests/books) and Socionics (tests), and before and/or without the influence of a forum, that their first and or second result and/or “self-typing” is often the correct one [or at the very least quite close (say in the same quadra or just a dichotomy off or something]. Long before I had ever joined a forum I had originally typed myself INFP per Keirsey (book) and INFp in Socionics [although the first Jungian/Myers-Briggs test I ever took on the Internet which was recommended by Bill ********* in 2008 gave me ISFJ the first time and ISFP the second time]. Now ‘the guy’ gets it right after taking the test a second time:

    . . . I went back and took my time, and really made sure I understood exactly what they wanted with each term. The result was similar to what I had before 'The Observer' [INTp], but the second time around, which was also the one I felt I understood more, and did carefully [with a lot of thinking about even my most basic and 'taken for granted' behaviors] was 'The Analyst' [INTj] . . . Reading up on the characteristics on both sites was really funny, because it finally really described me! [emphasis mine]

    It's kind of funny when you read about your personality, at least in my case. When I read about the INTJ 'Mastermind/Analyst' personality type, it makes me sound almost like a 'pragmatic robot'. But I tend to see it a bit differently.

    Here he is referring to the INTJ description in Keirsey’s book Please Understand Me II. Perhaps (at least) in that book (I’m not sure about other sources or publications), the INTJ description is more equivalent to the Socionics INTp type as opposed to INTj. That may be due to the fact that in Myers-Briggs (and Keirsey I'm assuming) the INTJ’s base function is Introverted Intuition and its creative function is Extraverted Thinking. Yet what if I had shared some excerpts from Keirsey’s description of the INTP (The Architect). Would it have made a difference. I don’t know.

    - from Please Understand Me II by David Keirsey; p. 205 [The Architect (INTP)]: For this type of Rational [NT], the world exists primarily to be analyzed, understood, and explained. External reality in itself is unimportant, a mere arena for checking out the usefulness of ideas. What is important is that the underlying structures of the universe be uncovered and articulated, and that whatever is stated about the universe be stated correctly, with coherence and without redundancy. Curiosity concerning these fundamental structures is the driving force in INTPs, and they care little whether others understand or accept their ideas.

    - pp. 205-206: Architects prize intelligence in themselves and in others, and seem constantly on the lookout for the technological principles and natural laws upon which the real world is structured. The cognitive scanning of INTPs is not global and diffuse like an NF’s; on the contrary, Architects limit their search to only what is relevant to the issue at hand, and thus they seem able to concentrate better than any other type. Architects can also become obsessed with analysis. Once caught up in a thought process, that process seems to have a will of its own, and they persevere until they comprehend the issue in all its complexity. Moreover, once INTPs know something, they remember it . . .
    Architects exhibit the greatest precision in thought and language of all the types. They tend to see distinctions and inconsistencies in thought and language instantaneously, and can detect contradictions in statements no matter when or where the statements were made. Only sentences that are coherent carry weight with them, and thus authority derived from office, credential, or celebrity does not impress them. Like the ENTPs, INTPs are devastating in debate or any form of adversarial discussion, their skill in differential analysis giving them an enormous advantage in discrediting their opponents’ arguments and in structuring their own. They regard all discussions as a search for understanding, and believe their function is to eliminate inconsistencies, no matter who is guilty of them.

    http://www.socioniko.net/en/articles/lytovs-intro3.html

    ‘Instead of “making things work”, it [Introverted logic] rather focuses on elimination of contradictions, on systematization, or in more general [terms] – on “justice” (if only it exists).’

    - from Please Understand Me II by David Keirsey; p. 207 [The Architect (INTP)]: Architects are devoted parents; they enjoy children, and are very serious about their upbringing. Each of their children is treated as a rational individual, with rights, privileges, and as much autonomy as that child can handle safely. INTPs encourage their children to take responsibility for their own lives and to chart their own course. They do not visit their own expectations on their children and never attack them physically or verbally. When safe to do so Architects let the natural consequences of their children’s actions teach them about reality. When this is unsafe, they somehow contrive to design logical consequences to inform their children’s actions.

    - from Personality Type: An Owner’s Manual by Lenore Thomson; pp. 312-313 [INTP (Introverted Thinking)]: . . . because INTPs see logical implications in terms of systemic change over time, they are often well ahead of the curve on issues of cultural evolution. They seem like ENTPs in this respect, but the two are actually mirror images.
    Like all Extraverts, ENTPs take the outer world for granted. They use Extraverted Intuition to gauge a situation’s possibilities, then strategize with Introverted Thinking to bring them about . . . INTPs approach reality from the other way around. They use Introverted Thinking first, to get a sense of a situation’s structural pattern, then use Extraverted Intuition to recognize its impact on what actually exists.

    - p. 315: Extreme INTps are frequently embroiled in disputes with people, and they spend a great deal of time and energy defending their thoughts in journals or on the op-ed pages of local newspapers.

    Another thing I remember about ‘the guy’ – and it was also obvious via Facebook – was that he liked to bring up subjects for discussion and debate about things. He was quite active in that regard, and I remember there was even a time when some ‘famous’ [?] dude ( I don’t know who he was) visited his school (and this dude was supposed to be ‘homophobic’ or something), so ‘the guy’ even went to whatever presentation the dude had made to express his opinion(s). [To be honest, though, I don't really know the details of what or what didn't happen, of course.]

    ‘the guy’: "I'm barely tolerated there, as someone who is gay, as someone who doesn't believe in their religion, and as somebody who is intellectually above them (not boasting, it's just the plain truth), and as someone who doesn't handle authority well." [emphasis mine]

    I think another good ‘type name’ for the INTj is “The Haughty Intellectual” as opposed to “The Spiteful Loner.” I also came up with the ‘type name’ – “The Warrior Intellectual” for the INTj.

    http://www.socioniko.net/en/1.1.types/li.html

    Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.—
    Thomas Jefferson.


    'He appears extremely uncompromising, often looks down with a piercing look from under his philosopher’s forehead.’

    ‘Usually he even does not notice the quality of his clothing. He does not tolerate orders.’

    ‘4. Somewhat tender and capricious. His self-sacrifice in defending justice becomes especially mind-boggling, if one knows that he feels irritated by everything that disturbs silence and the measured way of his life.’

    ‘He finds himself in an especially hard situation when having to obey a boss whom he does not respect.’

    ‘5. "He led a happy life who sheltered himself well". He is very secretive, dislikes uninvited visitors. He sharply reacts to reprimands, but sometimes hides his irritation under an artificial smile.’

    I find that almost everything about the INTj (LII) type describes ‘the guy’ I knew. Here’s another interesting fact about this guy (something he once wrote about himself):

    “I enjoy creating constructed artistic languages and inventing fictional worlds [geofiction].”

    This is a link regarding the features of speech, vocabulary, etc. associated with Ti (introverted Thinking/logic):

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...s_of__speech_6

    “Tend to define new words (jargon) and then use them extensively.”

    Even on Facebook I witnessed some of the words he created (often by combining different words and suffixes and prefixes or whatever I believe). I think that this kind of stuff and “construct[ing] artistic languages” is often related to Ti, although not always Ti-ego, yet usually Ti-valuing. “Inventing fictional worlds” is often related to Ne (extraverted iNtuition).

    ‘The guy’ also once wrote (about himself):

    “I'm not particularly athletic but I do enjoy swimming and working out [weight training].”

    Sergei Moshenkov and Wing Tung Tang M. Sc., MBTI and Socionics: Legacy of Dr. Carl Jung (Lexington: USA, 2010/2011), 75:

    - p. 75 [INTj - The Scientist]: “Si – The INTj is often good at a non-team sports activity: jogging, sprinting, or weight-lifting.”

    - p. 74: “Depending on the subtype INTj’s try to compensate for their lack of Se with a strong Fe, Si or Ti – so instead of taking an upper hand in situations, they attempt to reason out their demands, instead of taking up social space by virtue of Se tactics . . . they exhibit colorful emotions to attract attention, and instead of assertiveness they develop their physique (Si) to have a more powerful look.”

    I also find that the material related to Fi-Role also really describes 'the guy' I knew:

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...overted_Ethics

    Sergei Moshenkov and Wing Tung Tang M. Sc., MBTI and Socionics: Legacy of Dr. Carl Jung (Lexington: USA, 2010/2011), 73:

    - p. 73 [INTj - The Scientist]: "Fi -- INTj's almost religiously uphold the norms of social behavior . . . Some INTj's learn not only to uphold the social norms of behavior, but also to somewhat manipulate and maneuver through them. In all cases however this function uses only learned and experienced tricks and tactics. A general criticism bestowed upon INTj's by INFj's is that the INTj is much too rigid and impersonal in their courtesy, making little differentiation between levels of courtesy and levels of relationship. Many INTj's are known to have cliche socially awkward moments as their biggest fear . . . Generally INTj's differ greatly in their ability to use the Fi function -- this largely depends on their development of the other functions. The more intuitive INTj's tend to be far better and more flexible with the use of the Fi, however the logical INTj subtypes are much more principled, and though seem to possess a higher level of personal integrity, they are far too rigid in interactions with others."

    Based on this it's safe to say that 'the guy' is probably a logical subtype INTj/LII [Ti-INTj (LII-Ti)]. (And I also think 'the guy' was a Normalizing subtype LII/INTj.) This would also explain the relatively good and enhanced partial/incomplete [semi-]duality he had with Bill ********* [Fe-ENFj (EIE-Fe)]. (Bill was also a Dominant subtype EIE/ENFj.)


    Of course, here are the INTj's/LII's:

    http://www.socioniko.net/ru/type-foto/li-fil.html

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    My Mom thought he VI'd SLE, but I guess he can be Gamma if Kelly Clarkson really is Te-ENTj. I know this guy likes Kelly Clarkson, and to be honest I like quite a few of her songs as well, especially "Because of You". Like many people, of course, we both like a lot of different kinds of music.
    Last edited by HERO; 04-27-2013 at 11:13 AM.

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    Holy mother of long not too well organized texts. I read the first half and skimmed the second of all that.
    I felt huge resonance with style, structure and attitude in his letter. Especially how he goes out of his way to clarify his intention and not be misinterpreted is characteristic for INTj in a personal discussion.
    Admittedly I have only skimmed the second half, but I didn't see anything to warrant you opinion on him being two-faced and mean. Would you expand on that?

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    pics! where are they?

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    I vote sensory type, SEE is most likely; the information that I used to arrive at this is because the writer emotes sort of ethical values like "it's fine" and "you should" rather than being very pragmatic and saying "do this" or "this would help." The person also makes it a point to discuss their own personal history or relations with their father, which is what Fi tends to emphasize on. Their extraverted characteristics come from being well spoken (even on paper) and organized. EII, unlike SEE and SEI have fragmentary thinking, so with people, they tend to keep their thoughts brief and distant. Ni valuing comes in where the person has a sense of what will help solve their problems, the idea that if they leave the house, and become self-sufficient, that things will work out better for them, and this is an all encompassing idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    ILI/SLI is quite likely, he does sound Fi+Te
    Agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I vote sensory type, SEE is most likely.
    Weird. He is not even a woman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I vote sensory type, SEE is most likely; the information that I used to arrive at this is because the writer emotes sort of ethical values like "it's fine" and "you should" rather than being very pragmatic and saying "do this" or "this would help." The person also makes it a point to discuss their own personal history or relations with their father, which is what Fi tends to emphasize on. Their extraverted characteristics come from being well spoken (even on paper) and organized. EII, unlike SEE and SEI have fragmentary thinking, so with people, they tend to keep their thoughts brief and distant. Ni valuing comes in where the person has a sense of what will help solve their problems, the idea that if they leave the house, and become self-sufficient, that things will work out better for them, and this is an all encompassing idea.
    You've got to be kidding. So according to you this guy that appears to be sane tested as and then identified with description of freaking conflictor?
    Not surprisingly your reasoning is terrible. In fact so terrible that I can't be bothered to disentangle all those non sequitures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    Not surprisingly your reasoning is terrible. In fact so terrible that I can't be bothered to disentangle all those non sequitures.
    What reasoning?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I vote sensory type, SEE is most likely.
    How does it feel to be the only intuitive type in your world, Maritsa? Do you ever feel stressed at all, surrounded by so many sensors?

    My first guess would be SLI, though I would prefer that he elaborated and focused a little bit more on the 'why' part of a few things he mentioned about himself. Either way, I get more of an irrational > rational vibe from him.


    Also,

    I'm not sure what you may have done to loose my friendship.
    My best friend lives in *****, unfortunantly, and that's tough.
    So I guess that makes me a "pragmatic funny distant somewhat emotional robot".

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    Maritsa must be Te valuing considering the Ti logical structure aesthetic non shitters thrown at her. Stormtrooper, you remind me of thehotelambush who had a beef with me but strongly emancipated Maritsa and cursed me over this throwing non shitters in my face. After there was theInfantile, the Ashton, and the korpsey who dealt in non shitters, but me the kind soul and forgiving spirit, non vengeful nor hostile when attacked laid rest and swam with the dolphins. Peacefully. So no G.W.Bush quotes about fish and men. I appreciate it.

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    Just so everyone knows, this guy hates Eminem. I'm aware that the consensus for Eminem's type on this forum is SLI (ISTp), followed by IEI and ILE which are tied, I believe. He accused Eminem of being racist, homophobic, etc.

    Here are some things he's written in the past (and/or recently) [in many respects he's a lot smarter and way more educated than I am (I'm just a high school drop-out)]:

    "What Do God and Homosexuality Have in Common?

    What follows is a series of logical arguments constructed to make you laugh. You might not get them, but try anyway.

    Argument 1

    P1. Homosexuality is unnatural
    P2. Whatever is unnatural is morally evil
    :. Homosexuality is morally evil.

    (I'm sure this will be a favorite!)

    Argument 2

    P1. God is seperate from nature, his creation
    P2. Whatever is seperate from nature is unnatural
    :. God is unnatural.

    (I know you all like P1, but why do you not like P2 in this case?)

    Argument 3

    P1. God is unnatural
    P2. Whatever is unnatural is morally evil
    :. God is morally evil.

    Get a kick out of that? Great! Have a problem? Then clearly show me what that problem is. If you love all of Argument 1, and you like P1 of Argument 2, then you have to accept Argument 3. Anything less is inconsistant (and dishonest) and that's the hilarious part!"


    - 'The Llama Song is pure crack. I've been listening to September's "Cry for You" quite a bit, and JoJo's "Too Little Too Late".'

    - "The feeling of knowing your professor is an idiot: Priceless."

    - 'The act of perceiving and having a mind necessitates dividing the world, and everyone/thing within it into discrete entities. This is entirely natural, and inescapable for things that have minds. Of course, though, we can aim to have more compassionate, or more enlightened categories. But it's misunderstanding the issue, to say that we need no "boxes". Sexuality is one of the least understood phenomena of humanity, a major taboo. So, we can do a lot of work, by learning more about it.'

    - '"You can't have a half-robin-half sparrow" I don't think people mean that different races are different species--people can clearly interbreed. But can you have a "half red-tree robin-half blue bush robin" for example. Two differing sub-species. You say that there aren't many differences genetically, and in function, worth, and humanity I agree, but there are differences that can be categorized, and are actually meaningful for a lot of people. To deny those would be like denying their culture.'

    - 'Too bad you glossed over the "rungs" of the ladder. There's way more to music than the modern 12 tone western scale, it's not even mathematically or aurally the most pleasing or balanced.'

    - "Yeah, let's talk about gun control because a few Americans died. As we go and murder millions around the world, includ[ing] innocent women, men, children, and babies, in the name of oil, capitalism, and democracy. The hypocrisy stinks almost as much as all those decaying bodies. Gun control my ass. The issue is completely tangential, and you all are morons. Hey, I've an idea, if we're not to use guns in self defense, maybe we can send them to the middle East, so that innocent families can use them . . ."

    - "Anyone who thinks that voting for either Romney or Obama is going to make one shit of difference is an idiot of truly epic proportions. Voting for Rombama means more of the same: same foreign and domestic policy, same failed economic policy, continued deterioration of civil liberties, increasing police state tactics, same wars, more wars, and the list goes on. The only way to change this is to vote outside the paradigm our masters set up for us, to give us the illusion of choice."


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skBumxC2Fss

    - "One thing I've always agreed with [Ayn] Rand on: democracy is mob rule and morally repugnant."

    - "Should of asked those voters if they'd vote if it was outside the democrat/republican paradigm. You might have been surprised by some of the answers."

    - "Obama isn't that much different than Romney: same foreign policy, same healthcare plan, same waffling (or barely hidden) disdain of homosexuals, and much the same economic policies. The only real difference are window dressing. Vote Rombama 2012. Or you could vote for a real candidate like Gary Johnson or Jill Stein."

    - "PC [Political Correctness] is censorship and distracts from real issues. There can only be absolute freedom of speech or none."

    - 'It's actually quite common for philosophers of science and even philosophers of logic to have a least a MA in either physics or a biological science. What is broadly called "analytic philosophy" is science's best friend. As a philosophy undergrad I'd encourage you to read about it's history at least. Best regards. '

    - 'I think that many people, myself included, start to compare themselves with others more when things don't go well. If it seems like one's efforts constantly fail, and that one is stuck so to speak, you look around to see how others are doing it or coping, and then you fixate on those who are doing worlds better, usually because of happenstance, not because they actually deserve success. And then jealousy sets in. It's something I struggle with because I'm the "achiever" type, and I hate failure.'

    - Now I'm one step closer to world domination!

    - "Religions are bundles of worldviews, moral and ontological philosophies, mythos, and coping mechanisms that seek to give a practicioner a sense of peace, belonging, and purpose. They can easily be hijacked for ill. But they can also be a positive and meaningful thing in people's lives. It all depends. The world wouldn't automatically be a better place without religion and if everyone were atheists."


    http://www.alternet.org/story/150007...culture?page=7

    - "The tone of this article is very insulting, despite the several good points it makes. I lose respect for people that demonize the views of others. You can respectfully explain their views, and how you disagree without getting obnoxious or using red herrings, ad hominems, or strawman arguments."

    - If it wasn't for Brendan James then I would have given up trying to study several centuries ago. godS, I Brendan James

    - "This is the space where I talk about who I am. But that is an open question. I am an evolution of thoughts, experiences, and locations throughout a brief span of time."

    - 'I think we've officially entered the twilight zone when I can go to a class and learn absolutely nothing. And this is supposed to be a "difficult" class.'

    - 'I really think that words are a portal into another world, culture, or civilization. Which is why, whenever I am reading about a dead language, I feel as if I can almost "fall" into their history. And when that language has only a few words preserved, I feel very sad.'

    - 'At some point, we'll reach the boundary at which tiny particles are indistinguishable from quantities of energy, and this is why I think String Theory holds a lot of potential. It postulates that the *actual* fundamental particles are basically "solidified" energy with certain vibrating properties. Quarks, leptons, bosons, etc. will all go the way of the chemical elements, e.g., they will not be so fundamental anymore.'

    - "They may have the same nutrient composition, but don't be fooled: poison is poison. If something is meant to kill insects and bugs, how is it not supposed to kill you, if it builds up in your system with years of eating fruits and veggies. It seems very disingenuous to me to dismiss that. Also, people should have the choice to between organic and non-organic."

    - 'One way, I think, to prove this, would be to find DNA sequences that are active genes in higher organism to be found in the inactive so called "junk" DNA portions in less complex organisms. Also, in what ways could niche morphospace and convergent evolution play upon gene selection? Could it be that, despite what the phenotypical expression of a gene is, that eventually it will change to better fit morphospatial constraints?'

    - "I don't agree with PETA about a lot of stuff, but Penn and Teller's holier than thou attitude about animal testing is disgusting. Sure, in the past, it may have been the only way to test things, but we now have the technology to run computer simulations and other things, so we don't need to test drugs on creatures with differing metabolisms than humans. It's still almost impossible to justify, and it really is a form of slavery and torture, merely for human benefit, sometimes."

    - "I am sorry your dad died. Death is a painful experience, and when you care about people it's hard to accept that all you now have is memories. How did you know he was going to die, had he been sick? My mother has several debilitating diseases which really cuts her life expectancy short. So, I know she's lucky to have another 15 years, and it's like watching a clock tick down. And I totally get it about using your dads old stuff. It's a way of maintaining a connection with him."

    - "?? This is about manhood in movies? It was about women in movies... epic fail. There are many archtypical characters and plots out there, and it's a modern problem that we have lame movies that just use tired tropes. Also, the Bechdel test is retarded. I have yet to see a movie that fails it."

    - 'Such loads of epic fail! The biological evidence of homosexual behavior, including habitual lifelong patterns is literally briefly summarized in a thousand page book, and humans are animals. Homosexuality is natural. And you can "not agree with it" just like you can "not agree with" people with dark skin, a vagina, with an accent, or with rainy weather. These homophobic haters should just go take a lye bath, especially if we tell them its full of jesus juice.'

    - 'I know how that feels, Jay. I grew up in a huge family (8 kids), and usually there was only enough money for the youngest kids got a few small things. I actually didn't have any presents from 13 till I left home, and even know the holidays are a time of year I hate because there's nothing special about them, just a lot of family drama. Being on my own, it's hard this time of year because it's supposedly a family time and all my friends go home, but there's no real reason for me to do the same.'

    - 'Ok. I thought I knew a little bit about French, but it seems like he's dropping *a lot* of vowels/syllables beyond what I thought was "normal". Like for "larmes" (which I thought would be said "larm-eh" he just went "larm", which wouldn't differentiate it from singular. So yeah, apparently you can really speak French super lazy. I'm surprised communication is still possible. Just my 1.3 cents.'

    - 'What if ten was the set of all possible universes, both causally related in some way (7th) and non-related (8th), so that a "line" in dimension ten, from one "universal infinite" point to another "universal infinite point" would be to travel from one multiverse to another?'

    - 'You could at least try to approximate Latin, and not that shit that's called French. It's "priori incantatum" (which you're using wrong anyways) now "Pghghdkjdghdofhfhehi incantanteeehem"'

    - 'I really recommend "A Beautiful Thing" (1996), it's a really well done coming out/coming of age movie.'

    - 'When I read about hypotheses of alternative life biology, say, based on silicon instead of carbon, I keep hearing it referred to as "living rock life". I know silicon is a mineral, and does tend to make quartzes, but why should silicon based life look like a rock? Isn't it just building up proteins, and can't those proteins have a lot of different forms and textures, like that make up our own bodies? Kind of confused about that...'

    - "You guys should do a video about how to cope with rejection from your family, or maybe more broadly, how to cope with problems that uniquely arise in families, that make such times as holiday reunions horrible things. I was thrown out of my home for being gay, and it really messed me up and I'm still getting back on track (I'm gonna graduate college in a few weeks). I think it would be a very helpful video. Cheers!"

    - "Hey, I'm really curious about evolution. Do you know of any good resources on how life is organized taxonomically and evolutionarily? I'm trying to get a handle on the types of change, but its all a bit overwhelming info-wise. I'd really like to have a good idea of order, descent, and time."

    - "The Smother is fucking awesome. I died laughing. And now my ghost is writing this with a straw."

    - "This is wrong. Deism doesn't state that a god made the world, and humanity, and then humanity sinned, and disgusted, this god left. Deism states that a something made the universe (or possibly multiverse) and leaves it alone. Pandeism states that by making the universe/multiverse, that something became what was created. This guy is beyond disingenuous."

    - "You clearly miss the point. It was your mother's decision to smoke or not smoke, along with all the other innumerable parts of life. Making something illegal doesn't make it disappear, or stop people from doing or using whatever it is, if they really want to. I'd suggest you actually read a book about libertarianism"

    - "Fuck Rombama and the republicrats..."

    - "Humor is a gift that not everybody has, I certainly don't have it. This seems to be what you want to do with your life, so keep it up, I'm sure you'll go far."

    - "What this really shows is that the concept of substance x and substance y, which are each causally mutually exclusive cannot be used as explanations for things. E.g., what is unknown in substance x can be described with substance y. Calling it "physical" is slightly misleading because that implies that its enduring stuff. All there really is is various configurations of energy in complicated states. I really thing "mental" might be a better term to describe things with."

    - 'dude, not to sound too nerdy here, but that looks like that could be "soundbending" in an avatar-like universe. it may be badly choreographed, but I know it's hard work, mainly from doing taekwondo.'

    - "I've always imagined the 4th-10th dimensions as being about differing ways to move (in that strings need to be able to vibrate in these dimensions), and the 11th being duration/causality."

    - "This is very informative. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to study music at the university level, so this is a great way to learn. Also, don't be embarrassed about your English skills. I'm a native speaker, and I understood you quite well. Also, I think your accent is adorable. "

    - "Man I wish you were my friend. You're so funny! My humor's too weird for most people to get,but you've got a knack for comedy, sir. "

    - "Man, Bach really hit his stride here. I thought he couldn't top his counterpoint compositions, in the ionian, but here he's doing 5-6 part counterpoint in the phrygian. Excellent! I can't begin to wrap my head around his musical genius!"

    - 'This is really good, ZJ. But it becomes even more difficult for those who think that they are 1/2 male, 1/2 female, or a mixture of genders, or maybe not even male or female at all. I just wish that people would see people as individuals, and not as a gender, or always have to feel the need to play "guess what's between the legs". '

    - "It's too bad that Hunter was outed before he was legally autonomous. From personal experience, living with an unsupporting family after coming out is hell."

    - "It's not Italian, it's actually non-sense words designed to sound like the could belong to Latin. Pseudo-Latin if you will. I speak Latin and Spanish (and a wee bit of French and Italian) and I can tell you this emphatically. Of course, you could always look up the band, eRa, on wikipedia..."

    - '"Steal marriage"? Who the fuck "owns" marriage?!!!! Gays have historically in many cultures been able to marry, and in some cultures, their marriage traditions got co-opted by majority culture. Marriage is a personal and cultural thing, and nobody owns a person, let alone a culture. The arrogance of this asshat makes me furious.'

    - "I was always struck by how much of an 'ideal community' it was as well. I'd put up with really bad country music, and awful winters just to live in a place as awesome as that, if it only existed. LoL. "

    - "Non lo so! LoL! That's really close to Spanish No lo se'. That's amazing that your mom accepts your boyfriend. I hope that makes you really happy."

    - "While I can appreciate the irony and stupidity, this accomplishes nothing. Compromise and dialogue are the only things that are going to solve the problem that the people have in Tombstone. Get the facts, don't just rely on bias to your own views. While humans do have a right to survive, they are not the only ones. We think we're above nature, but if we mess with it, it'll mess with us.We are interconnected with everything on this spinning rock."

    - "Good series. I'm hoping to go to grad school and get a Ph.D in linguistics. My own college doesn't offer a linguistics major, so I'm doing the minor."

    - "Josh, you be a funny one, you. When I first started watching your videos, I didn't really enjoy your sense of humor, but it's growing on me. Thank you for making me smile. "

    - "The Force while powerful is limited to what one can will or imagine, magical spells don't have that limitation, ie., magic is much more versatile. Not to mention you avoid the philosophical inconsistencies of the force. e.g., the light/dark side distinction is arbitrary and unjustified."

    - " One more reason to dislike the bible-thumping hicks. The South is a beautiful area polluted by redneck gorillas. It's really sad. "

    - " LoL. I'll never eat at chick-fil-a because I'm a vegetarian, the fact that they're anti-gay doesn't do them any favors. A really catchy song, though. "

    - "Ah, North Carolina. Why am I not surprised. I'm sick of this idiotic country."

    - "I see a ring! What does it mean, Sam? Good things, I hope. "

    - "She should invest in getting her tubes tied. And not only does she get food stamps, but WIC, public housing, and insurance for the kids also. What is she bitching about? I work and go to school, pay for my own insurance and food, and housing, and transportation, and I'm not rolling in money, and mommy and daddy don't help me cuz they're not rolling in money, either. She needs to stop complaining, close her legs, and get a motherfucking job. Sounds like she'd be great on the corner."

    - "LoL. A literal depiction of every line of the song. Yikes. Good work. Too bad there weren't any really abstract lines..."

    - " I'm already familiar with gender from Spanish and Hebrew. If you understand that it's entirely arbitrary and has more to do with binary types than actual gender, it will help you a lot. I have to say, though, your jokes were awesome. "

    - "I guess if one is to deny abiogenesis but not assert some sort of god, then life simply is a feature of the universe, just like the universe is, or more broadly reality. I think a more interesting question is the idea that DNA contains the blueprints for all forms of life, and that there's a sort of built in speciation/progression into an ultimate form. What about gene drift and mutation, wouldn't these corrupt any inherent data of blueprints for all species?"

    - "Yeah, I live in ******** **********, and it's pretty much the same thing, except for the weird oddity that most gays are hiding, but that lesbians are left alone and can have lives."

    - "LoL. The earth's temperature has been fluctuating on a geological scale, so I'm not convinced that our emissions can affect the world that much. Other, actual forms of pollution the world over are very important, and unlike this loon who equates environmentalism with nazism, I am a libertarian and an environmentalist. Riddle me this: where are you gonna spend all the money you made after you destroy the planet in the process? Just because global warming is sketchy doesn't mean pollution is."

    - "That's a lie. Nobody can recite Chomsky because people stopped reading him decades ago. BTW, I think there's probably something wrong with one's moral impulses, if one is *forced* to do something, for one's own *good*. That's not genuine moral posturing, that's moral paternalism, and I really don't see much actual difference between the so-called healthcare reform laws and Prohibition. Genuine moral posturing does not involve the use of force."

    - "I'm just getting into metal, and I find that I really like folk and symphonic metal. I really don't get how a "song" can consist mainly of this growl/screaming stuff."

    - "A question: If there is no minimum wage laws, and employers and potential employees could negotiate a wage, is there a possible way in which an employee would settle on a wage that is too low to be worthwhile (E.g., to low to live in austerity) just to get a job?"

    - " Condoms don't protect against the spread of stds effectively. They are only *meant* to prevent pregnancy...most of the time. "



    He liked these two South Park related videos:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJBNqox5unQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDigQXZK1xY
    Last edited by HERO; 04-27-2013 at 11:03 AM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by agape View Post
    As you can see, eventually most 'gay' men will be dead of AIDS.
    Good one.

  19. #19
    WE'RE ALL GOING HOME HERO's Avatar
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    If they do anal.

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    WE'RE ALL GOING HOME HERO's Avatar
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    At the risk of sounding prolix, let's suppose that things are changing.

    A guy can go do anal with a guy who has the same HIV status or whatever as him. That's happening.

    Yet there are still potential physical consequences. Torn rectums, anal fissures, incontinence... and HIV is not the only thing you can get. Hepatitis C is even easier to get. And then there's syphillis, all kinds of parasites (from something like rimming [anal fellatio]) . . . So there are always risks.

    At the end of the day people can do what they want. Yet they must be mindful of the potential consequences. Even (militant) feminism, ROmbama and the Republicrats, etc. cannot eliminate consequence.

  21. #21
    dugga dugga dun Narc's Avatar
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    Agape, I confused this thread with one of your others and voted ILE, so discount that.

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