Conflictors basically dont give a shit about each others core perception and activities. For example an infp doesn't give a shit about keeping his house really neat and tidy and always doing chores and dishes on a super schedule. If someone was to criticize an infp on the dishes he probably wouldn't give a shit unless it was impeding something in his core elements.
Estjs do. They will seem OCD about keeping things running smoothly (ej always moving) like keeping a kitchen or house permanently clean. An infp would do the minimum here to get by and only make a big effort if he was to have a party of something or something was in dire need (ip reacting and adapting to situation)Estjs tend not to give a shit about things in the future that are bad for them, like not eating bad food that over time will kill them and make them fat, getting drunk (as long as its pleasurable!), getting tatooos(not in a painful place though), not wearing sunscreen (unless it was really evident they were gonna get burnt), eating endangered species(sushi that also contains lots of mercury) etc. (warning base ignoring types, in this case entp also somewhat ignore this info, but easily evident they don't care about administratively running a physical operation) Basic bad pattern avoidance that will drive an infp crazy over time because they will not accept any complex Ni. They would rather avoid immediate pain and gain immediate pleasure. Also doesn't excel at power struggles, Se comes in making people do shit and bitching at them to clean for example, although they do understand these things and can talk about and deal briefly, but don't really care as part of there core.
Thats where quasi-identity comes into play, they can surprise you with the demo Se but then quickly drop it and go back to administrative tasks.
Basically this creates a trainwreck shitstorm for each person and neither respects the other or can coorperate fully beyond very basic tasks.
I will get to duals when I have confirmed relations with one.
Last edited by jughead; 04-27-2011 at 04:37 PM.
I agree with most of what you wrote but am not so sure about this description of ESTjs. It applies to some of them, I think, but not to others. The LSE I know best doesn't drink, is somewhat careful about his diet (though less careful than other Deltas) because of digestion issues, and tries like mad to think about the future. It's just that he handles the future in an overplanning mode (from my pov), and I'd say that it's a form of filling in for Ni. It can come across as an optimistic drive to shape the future in a step-by-step manner to forestall what cannot be seen.
Originally Posted by jughead
I still say he doesn't take the long view and cannot, but in practice it doesn't look like self-indulgence. It looks like "I will work very hard and manage other people such that they work very hard, and if we all just work hard enough and intelligently enough, nothing bad will happen."
By contrast, I only seek to forestall what I CAN see will happen. And he was mostly unable to accept what I could see, even though time after I was accurate in my assessments. It simply wasn't very real to him, and I do understand that.
I also know an LSE who is more like your description--living in the moment and indulging at the expense of his long-term well-being.
Yes. I am trying to sum this up with a phrase or two.
It's something like LSE sacrifices internal logical structure (symetry and consistency, Ti ignore) to produce (Te+) and make more shit that gives pleasure or avoids pain. But this throws off the whole Ti system and renders it useless.
It's like a perverse way of thinking to me.
The thing is with conflictors you get along very well in the begining but the values and temperament drive you up a wall. Other people don't understand the conflict...I think the introvert or ethical type see's the conflict first. You think the others values are shit and stereotypically I see LSE's as dumbass logical hedonists.