I'm certain ESFJ's love and I'm certain INTJ's love and I'm certain I've told a ESFJ that I've loved them or made it incredibly clear how I felt but unfortunately I have yet to meet an ESFJ who can say "I love you" - what's the deal?
How do you get an ESFj to say "I love you"?
I'm certain ESFJ's love and I'm certain INTJ's love and I'm certain I've told a ESFJ that I've loved them or made it incredibly clear how I felt but unfortunately I have yet to meet an ESFJ who can say "I love you" - what's the deal?
My ISFp friend was always skeptical of people saying they love her, and she didn't like saying it all that much. So maybe it's the same thing. My ESFj relatives seem not to have a problem saying it, while other relatives don't say it. It could be that the ESFjs you know are young and not wanting their feelings to be committed that way, and so don't trust themselves with saying something that significant.is supposed to be objective, anyway.
Buy her candy.
someone's not in love with me whyyyyyyyyyyyyy
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
I say "I love you" only when I mean it and when I feel secure in the relationship. Not a minute before.
If an ESE says that they love you, believe us, we mean every word.
*sigh*Originally Posted by yellow82
If an ESE says that they love you, believe us, we mean every word.
Find an overly-friendly one and be their friend. It's easy.
Well, you see, the easiest way to accomplish this is to break out the Chafe-Away Bondage Rope and the thumb-screws and promise one half-turn of the screw every time they don't say "I love you" when you say it first. Also, threaten a quarter-turn of the screws if they don't sound like they mean it.
"I say "I love you" only when I mean it and when I feel secure in the relationship. Not a minute before.
If an ESE says that they love you, believe us, we mean every word. :-)" care to elaborate alittle further? especially the part about feeling secure.
Get a nice income. Then ESEs will love you.
I think that's a sign of maturity, probably true of every type in their best examples. But I don't mean to sound disagreeable. I've got a lot of respect for people that don't say "I love you" flippantly. It's oddly reassuring, to be honest.If an ESE says that they love you, believe us, we mean every word.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
Very true about the maturity. Generally, healthier people of all types can express their emotions better.
I'd say that "I love you" is most likely to be Fi, which ESFjs ignore. Can be other functions too, of course.
I have a nice income! with a vehicle! with more friends than I can keep track of!
@Mountain Dew: I'm fairly certain ethical types are more keen to pick up romantic suggestions than logical types but I do suppose Fi can express love best of all but that is not to say Fi cancels out Fe which is to say Fe ignore their feelings.
Fi seems to pick on who loves who or who hates who.
Put a mirror in front of him/her.
"I love you." is Fi.I'd say that "I love you" is most likely to be Fi, which ESFjs ignore. Can be other functions too, of course.
"I love you!" is Fe.
Saying the words "I love you" implies not just a passing emotional fervour, but a deeper, long-term commitment to the relationship*. ESFjs, being strong in Fi, are aware of the full implications of saying "I love you," and will have a tendency to refrain from saying it unless they feel prepared to follow through on that commitment. And since ESFjs have Vulnerable Ni, they tend not to have a very good idea of what the future may hold, and they may in some cases tend to delay saying the words even after they feel the sentiment, due to being unsure if the sentiment will last (unlike, say, an ENFj (Creative Ni), who feels confident about whether or not such sentiments will last, or an INTj (Demonstrative Ni), who may not be very sure how he feels, but will have a fairly confident opinion of how things are likely to unfold).
So, to sum up, the reason no ESFjs have said "I love you," to you is likely that you have been unable to either
a) inspire strong enough sentiments in an ESFj to make her want to commit to you long-term, or,
b) convince an ESFj that your relationship is a sure thing that will last.
*In terms of Robert Sternberg's Triangular Theory of Love, the words "I love you" imply the presence of the "Commitment" component. In a romantic context, this would mean either Fatuous love or Consummate love, not just Infatuated love or Romantic love.
Quaero Veritas.
I agree with krig.
The most obvious reason someone wouldn't say they were in love is if they weren't in love.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
What Krig said.
Thanks for explaining it so well Krig.
Let's try another approach. How do I get an ESFJ to admit they love me!!!! Honestly am I being denied or are they in denial? The question does not just arise sporatically.
Oh, good. I've passed the "resident ESFj agrees with my description of ESFjs" test.What Krig said.
Thanks for explaining it so well Krig.
We really need more context. Are you talking about one ESFj in particular, or is this a recurring problem? What was the situation exactly? What led you to believe the ESFj was in love with you, but not saying it? We've basically told you everything we can tell you without knowing more.
Quaero Veritas.
They haven't said: "I love you" because obviously they don't love you. The meaning of: "I love you" for an ESE is that they want to spend the rest of their lives with you. They've completely and entirely committed to you the rest of their lives, they will not move on, they're completely stuck on you.Let's try another approach. How do I get an ESFJ to admit they love me!!!! Honestly am I being denied or are they in denial? The question does not just arise sporatically.
We're loyal to those we love; (family, best friends the man/woman that we fall in love with.)
But if it makes you feel any better, I have never told any of the men that I've had as potentials/boyfriends that I loved them. . . I've told them, "I have a crush on you" (when I was initiating a relationship) and I've said: "you're amazing and I don't think that I could live without you", but I've never said: "I love you" simply because for me, love means: commitment, passion, and similar interests. . . someone that I could marry, someone that I love with a passion, someone that my family and friends love, and someone that wants to be with me too.
When I say "I love you" it's going to mean the whole world to me.
And what do we make of the catty ESE given to sarcastically proclaiming love for others in order to be snide and condescending?
Like in "I love you all" or something like that ?
I guess I should explain in further detail what I mean. . . one of my favorite quotes from the movie LOTR (actually most of my favorite quotes) is from Samwise Gamgi.
He says: "I made a promise, Mr Frodo. A promise. "Don't you leave him Samwise Gamgee." And I don't mean to. I don't mean to."
As an ESE Samwise Gamgi displays a lot of the way I feel when I say: "I love you." For an ESE saying "I love you' is like promising your love to that person forever and always. . . and we don't mean to ever leave those that we love. Ever.
As far as the snide sarcastic remarks are you referring to an ESE that says: "I love you too" with a sarcastic grin because you just said something completely unloving? Because I've done that before.
It's interesting, because I'm really curious to know how other ESE's feel about this subject. I'm sure that there are others that consistently and completely disagree with me, based on their (history/experience).
Whatever ESE you're with has been deeply molded by their experiences. I think that's something that few people seem to fully realize when they're talking to an ESE. . . we have a tendency of basing all of our basic philosophy on what we "know" tangibly.
Anyways, just a few random thoughts. Hope you can follow them. . . I'm not the best at thinking in a clear methodical way.
No, she's just being being catty and allowing her vanity to lead her to believe she's morally superior to her detractors. It's of a piece with her habit of lecturing others on their lacking religiosity, mere minutes after bragging about her oral sex technique/fixation.As far as the snide sarcastic remarks are you referring to an ESE that says: "I love you too" with a sarcastic grin because you just said something completely unloving? Because I've done that before.
No, she's just being being catty and allowing her vanity to lead her to believe she's morally superior to her detractors. It's of a piece with her habit of lecturing others on their lacking religiosity, mere minutes after bragging about her oral sex technique/fixation.
Sometimes my Identicals actions really bother me. . . . . . . . .
I really think if an ESE loves you, they will tell you. They aren't generally known for holding back emotional expressiveness. So maybe thE person isn't ESE, and/or maybe the person isn't in love with you.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
ESFjs' dominant function is actually Fe NOT Fi.
To chip: I think that ESFjs may not say that they love you back because the ESFJ's sphere of influential people in her life do not love you. A you know, ESFjs have the strong Fe function. I think that a lot of people in this forum have a misconception of what exactly extroverted feeling is. It does NOT have to do with how well someone displays emotions. Fe is about Objective VALUES. A person with Fe will say that they like a painting not because it suits their subjective tastes, but because it was painted by a famous, beloved artist or because that is the polite and courteous thing to say at the moment according to societal expectations (C. Jung). Their values are based around the culture and community that they live in and the family and friends they surround themselves with. So how do you get an ESFj to love you? YOU have to be loved by everyone around her.
Er, yes, I'm aware of that. Fi is the ESFj's Ignoring function, which means it's strong but unvalued.
Fe is about internal dynamics of objects, i.e., "what's going on inside", commonly referred to as "emotions", "mood", etc. ESFjs respond to things based on how those things make them feel, what sort of emotional state those things trigger within them. They also try to take care of the emotional states of the people around them, which is why it can appear that their values are based on the culture around them -- they may conform to others' expectations as a way of improving their emotional state. But to think that an ESFj's values are based entirely upon the surrounding people and culture is a mistake. They value Ti, and are always trying to make their actions logically consistent. This is why the appreciate the input of INTjs, who are much better than they at making things logically consistent.
Quaero Veritas.
Where did you get this from? You know, I was so confused about the exact definitions of fuctions before. The more that I read articles and forums searching for clarification, the more that I realized how varied the definitions were and how many did not line up with what I have personally witnessed.
So I went deeper and back in time to the founder of both MBTI and Socionics - Carl Jung. Although Jung's writing in "Psychological Types" was hard at first to comprehend, I finally found what I was searching for - definitions that made sense!
ESFJs value Ti because of Ti's ability to place greater significance on subjective logic regardless of objective values.
.
Last edited by golden; 06-09-2011 at 08:19 AM.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
exactly.
Plus think about how society has taught men in particular (older ones more than younger) to suppress that sort of emotional expressiveness. there's more at work than just type here. Also, there's the baggage that comes with saying it. Some people see it as too serious, almost pointing to a commitment of sorts, whereas others see it just as expression of feelings.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Haha, at first I paranoidly thought you were referring to me and mylove thread.
Even though I don't do it "in order to be snide and condescending"...
And then I saw this:
So I knew it wasn't me.
Yeah.Sometimes my Identicals actions really bother me. . . . . . . . .
I only occasionally say 'I love you', if I really mean it. If I mass-proclaim my love, I make sure to do it in a joking, lighthearted manner.
Yea, that one MD.
ESFjs aren't very mushy. It's something that INFps are supervising them all the time about.
In fact, both the INFps supervisor AND supervisee are quite anti-mush. (ENTj and ESFj)
It's not that they don't care, it's just everybody loves in a different way I suppose. INFp love is more of a pure, thick raw love that writers have. ESFj love is more of a practical, hands-on thing.
My ESFj mom is very sentimental and caring, I probably get my big heart from her- but I think she would laugh at my gay male poems and my declaration and fefe dobson songs. In that sort of distant 'you're silly way' like not understanding the raw essence of them like dolphin would, or something. lol. Unhappy IEIs also don't like that stuff.
Have really great sex with them.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
LOL maritsa. I missed you. =)
Well I mean an IEI-Fe I know likes to say I love you and give hugs, where as I'm pretty chill about doing any of that.
Do you want an ESFj to say "I love you" or do you want an ESFj to love you?
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