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Thread: Nassim Taleb

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    Default Nassim Taleb

    Writer of the 'black swan' (just started reading it), 'fooled by randomness' and some other book I forgot.

    "It's not what you know that will hurt you, but that which you don't know."


    You can watch and listen to him here:




    I think he's LII, and I'm somewhat certain of it. I hope to get some confirmation from you guys, or comments when I'm wrong.

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    I've been watching a lot of video's of this highly interesting man on youtube.

    I now think he's ILE. He's alpha NT but speaks to quickly to be LII. He's more typically ILE.

    Thanks for the responses everyone :-(

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Base Ne for sure. Probably ENTp, but there is a slight chance he is ENFp instead. There are times when he makes remarks that seem very strongly disapproving of Ti and he has a tendency to leave the explicit message of his statements vague (i.e. he would make a bunch of illustrative remarks, but stop short of really making a committed statement).

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    doesn't he look... chaotic to you. he lacks the composedness and calmness of an INTj. also the people who he typically criticizes are those who neglect the extent to which chaos and randomness influence systems. he is an enemy of everything that assumes too stable a model of reality.

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    He can't be an IJ type, his mimicry is extremely distant to anything IJ-ish, he is chaotic and expending energy trying to openly convince other people. I think some kind of EP-Ne is very likely...although I'm still torn between ENFp and ENTp. I've investigated a bit his life, and his closest business associated associates seem to be IxTp types, which might speak for ENFp...maybe.
    His pictures mostly look intuitive, imho.
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    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
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    I'll put in a quick vote for EP temperament (he's so spread out, not drawn in) and Ne all over the place. ENTp > ENFp, but just based on a brief impression.

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    I just watched those videos. Why ? and don't just say because he's scattered or has crude ideas, since I'm already aware of that. Will have to watch more.

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    Hey thanks guys for the remarks.

    Yeah I agree he's scattered energetic etc, a bit too much for an LII.

    I'm not sure if I can see him as an ENFP, since that would also be need to visibile in his writings. NF's generaly have impressive vocabulary and poetic/colorful writing style. Taleb has mostly not.

    He's not particulary good at explaining. I thought it was because of opposite quadra, but since labcoat experiences the same it's most likely not the reason.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    He's not particulary good at explaining. I thought it was because of opposite quadra, but since labcoat experiences the same it's most likely not the reason.
    what i said about his style wasn't criticism of his writing. i think it can make sense to illustrate without making explicit commitments. it just isn't something i'd expect from someone focusing on Ti.

    also, he isn't always like that. and maybe that's a reason to see him as Base Ne with Ti as a dish on the side.

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    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poli View Post
    I just watched those videos. Why ? and don't just say because he's scattered or has crude ideas, since I'm already aware of that. Will have to watch more.
    Well, let's say we don't see Ne and just do a process of elimination. Here's mine, strictly my subjective step-by-step:

    * EP temperament (very concretely present, but without the physical tension of EJ)
    * probably not a sensor
    * I can see him being in the infantile/caregiver arena

    That alone leaves me with ENTp and ENFp.

    Is he showing more focus on Ne-related things than on anything even remotely having to do with Fi? Imo, yes. Do I get Fi at all? No. In fact, I think I see some Fe instead--his emotions are pushing out toward me rather than drawing me in. Now I'm thinking not ENFp.

    Is it Ti or Te I'm looking at? I find that Ti-strong people can build and build their ideas up, spin them into complex webs--and I think he does this. I find that Te-strong people can eliminate what they think is extraneous to their point and deliver a compact bundle of thought--and I do not think he does this.

    Therefore I see ENTp as his most likely type. He VIs to me like ENTP-Ne and not the Ti subtype. My kid is ENTP-Ne, and could this man be the same type as my kid? Yes. Similar demeanor, similar facial expressions--the mouth in particular.

    But you asked why Ne, and that's a good question, and my answer is lame: It was the vibe I started with. A warm glow in his eyes. His preoccupations seem to do with intuition, but he doesn't show the cold remoteness of Ni--he's very present and engaged as he uses what I think is Ti to shape intuitive perceptions. Kinda nifty to watch.

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    Nassim is not Ti. He's Te.

    From the postscript of The Bed of Procrustes:

    "We are more likely to try to squeeze a phenomenon into the Procrustean bed of a crisp and known category (amputating the unknown), rather than suspend categorization, and make it tangible...Our mental architecture is at an increased mismatch with the world in which we live..."

    He's basically anti-Ti. I'm not sure if it's ignoring or demonstrative, though. His mathematical appendix to the Incerto might suggest demonstrative, but I could see a case for Ignoring.

    He can't distill his thoughts, cutting away the fat? Dude wrote a whole book of aphorisms. Can't get more distilled than that.

    He's a Vortical-Synergetic thinker. This shit sounds like he wrote it himself:

    "It operates on basis of testing, advancing to the goal through trial and error...Another advantage—faith in success and luck. Synergetics do not confuse temporary setbacks with error; they will undertake attempt after attempt until success ultimately comes to them."

    That makes him either ENTj or ISTp. I don't think he's a rational, but I also don't think he's an ST. My inclination is to say Ni-ENTj, or that he's a got a healthy dose of irrationality.




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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Aristocratic type, probably ENFp

    For Whoobie77, I think you make a classic mistake and that is Ethic vs Logic bias. You're typing this person correctly as far as function values, but you obviously don't think an ethical type has the mental acumen to write the books Nassim Taleb wrote. You would be wrong.

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    I'm not doubting that a Feeler could write his stuff, I'm saying it was Fi/Te Vortical-Synergetic who wrote it. That isn't IEE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    I'm not doubting that a Feeler could write his stuff, I'm saying it was Fi/Te Vortical-Synergetic who wrote it. That isn't IEE.
    Doesn't mean you didn't make the mistake either. You picked the two vortex thinkers that aren't Ethical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Doesn't mean you didn't make the mistake either. You picked the two vortex thinkers that aren't Ethical.
    Because they are both Fe/Ti, and would value Ti.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    Because they are both Fe/Ti, and would value Ti.
    Then I guess you made a mistake somewhere else. Anyways before you start having too many convictions about your typings. Ask yourself how many people of each type you really know. Then ask yourself that question again. Take a few years to ask this question of yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Then I guess you made a mistake somewhere else. Anyways before you start having too many convictions about your typings. Ask yourself how many people of each type you really know. Then ask yourself that question again. Take a few years to ask this question of yourself.
    I don't know any of these strange biological machines you call people. Why do you think I'm learning about social psychology haha

    Well, at least tell me this hkkmr. Have I typed myself wrong, too?

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    I don't know any of these strange biological machines you call people. Why do you think I'm learning about social science haha

    Well, at least tell me this hkkmr. Have I typed myself wrong, too?
    How well do you know yourself? Keep asking yourself this question, forever.

    I don't care what you type yourself of if you are typed wrongly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    How well do you know yourself? Keep asking yourself this question, forever.

    I don't care what you type yourself of if you are typed wrongly.
    I'm just curious if you think we are identicals lol. Because aren't identicals supposed to see eye-to-eye?

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    I'm just curious if you think we are identicals lol. Because aren't identicals supposed to see eye-to-eye?
    Frankly I don't think it matters. Trying to type people using oneself as an orientation is a poor choice, it leads to all sort of manifest bias and problems. Many individuals say things like, I don't like this person therefore conflict quadra, or I like this person therefore same quadra. Eliminate the self from one's orientation about this topic and orient oneself some other way. It is easier said than done, but there are many errors of thought when one allows one's own likes and dislikes to affect the analysis. An appropriate level of doubt is always necessary.

    Talk to me in a few years and if you still have this question, perhaps it will have some merit.

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    I now think he's definitely a Delta irrational. I feel dumb

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    Nassim is not Ti. He's Te.

    From the postscript of The Bed of Procrustes:

    "We are more likely to try to squeeze a phenomenon into the Procrustean bed of a crisp and known category (amputating the unknown), rather than suspend categorization, and make it tangible...Our mental architecture is at an increased mismatch with the world in which we live..."

    He's basically anti-Ti. I'm not sure if it's ignoring or demonstrative, though. His mathematical appendix to the Incerto might suggest demonstrative, but I could see a case for Ignoring.

    He can't distill his thoughts, cutting away the fat? Dude wrote a whole book of aphorisms. Can't get more distilled than that.

    He's a Vortical-Synergetic thinker. This shit sounds like he wrote it himself:

    "It operates on basis of testing, advancing to the goal through trial and error...Another advantage—faith in success and luck. Synergetics do not confuse temporary setbacks with error; they will undertake attempt after attempt until success ultimately comes to them."

    That makes him either ENTj or ISTp. I don't think he's a rational, but I also don't think he's an ST. My inclination is to say Ni-ENTj, or that he's a got a healthy dose of irrationality.



    could you give some examples of what you read as "vortical-synergetic" in his work?

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    wins the prize for douchiest entp ever. alongside niall ferguson as the douchiest isfp.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    could you give some examples of what you read as "vortical-synergetic" in his work?
    All of Antifragile, basically.

    "I like to make right mistakes", etc.

    I think he may be an ENFp valuing the Vortical Synergetic cognition of his dual, the ISTp, now, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    could you give some examples of what you read as "vortical-synergetic" in his work?
    It's just that a lot of Taleb's work falls into the realm of VS-HP cog-styles rather than DA-CD, which is why all the ILE typings are surprising. Some bits from the wiki:

    "He advocates what he calls a "black swan robust" society, meaning a society that can withstand difficult-to-predict events.[10] He proposes "antifragility" in systems, that is, an ability to benefit and grow from a certain class of random events, errors, and volatility[20][21] as well as "convex tinkering" as a method of scientific discovery, by which he means that option-like experimentation outperforms directed research."

    "Relatedly, he also believes that universities are better at public relations and claiming credit than generating knowledge. He argues that knowledge and technology are usually generated by what he calls "stochastic tinkering" rather than by top-down directed research." - ("Stochastic" trial-and-error tinkering is the way VS types approach experimentation and idea generation. From logical functions: "Left-dynamic positivists (ESE, LIE, SLI, IEI): Minus-plus logic -+L. Stochastic logic. Logic of probabilities, contingencies and exceptions, of mechanical sums rather than derivatives. Violation of hierarchy." So basically what Taleb in saying in terms of cog-styles in the first quote is "hey, lets generate a robust system that would actually benefit from all the chaos, volatility and randomness" which is essentially the interplay of HP and VS cog-styles).

    "Taleb's writings discuss the error of comparing real-world randomness with the "structured randomness" in quantum physics where probabilities are remarkably computable and games of chance like casinos where probabilities are artificially built. [LII - "natural logic", anti-artificiality] Taleb calls this the "Ludic fallacy". His argument centers on the idea that predictive models are based on Plato's Theory of Forms, gravitating towards mathematical purity and failing to take some key ideas into account, such as: the impossibility of possessing all relevant information, that small unknown variations in the data can have a huge impact, and flawed theories/models that are based on empirical data and that fail to consider events that have not taken place but could have taken place."

    "Taleb sees his main challenge as mapping his ideas of "robustification" and "anti-fragility", that is, how to live and act in a world we do not understand and build robustness to black swan events. Taleb introduced the idea of the "fourth quadrant" in the exposure domain.[64] One of its applications is in his definition of the most effective (that is, least fragile) risk management approach: what he calls the 'barbell' strategy which is based on avoiding the middle in favor of linear combination of extremes, across all domains from politics to economics to one's personal life."

    ... and there's more


    He's like the anti-ILE. ENTps are causal-determinists who don't advocate for super-robust all-encompassing systems, unlike their Ti dominant cousins the LII and the LSI, systems that would grow and benefit from random, unpredictable events, something that CD types simply negate and disown (Einstein, ILE: "God doesn't play dice with the world." vs Nassim Taleb: "He does play dice all the time, and we should capitalize on this! Anything that doesn't account for random dice draws is sheer fail.")

    My typing of Taleb has been LII-Ne with strong emphasis on creative function, which at first glance could make him appear as a Ne dominant since creative function is usually what's most blatantly 'visible' with creative subtypes.

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    Nymeria's Avatar
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    Based on his Antifragility Book, I would have gone with LIE actually.

    I thought very nuanced and contentful use of Te and Ni. Intuitive subtype.

    Last edited by Nymeria; 11-24-2016 at 11:53 PM.

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    ESTp
    Last edited by Jake; 11-23-2016 at 08:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Writer of the 'black swan' (just started reading it), 'fooled by randomness' and some other book I forgot.
    the other book that you forgot stupid idiot, is ofcourse 'anti fragility', his masterpiece if I say myself, but ofcourse you are entitled to think otherwise.

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