ENFjS DEVOUR INTpS' BRRAAAAIIIINNNNZZZZZ

[Korpsy Knievel]

ESC's idea seems like it deserves its own thread, especially since it's a two-headed beast. So here we is.

ENFjs control the INTp with reactions which brainwash the INTp by hitting the weak PoLR and Base with so much intensity that the INTp adapts and begins to avoid such reactions by conforming to what the ENFj expects(or what the INTp think the ENFj expects) in the form of / filtered responses and behavior.

Here's a little story about DJ's dream girl: Within a particular scene there are a number of ILIs and a mean ol' EIE. She's a vituperative narcissist who entertains herself with scurrilous attacks and smear campaigns. Of the half-dozen or so ILIs who are present, only the one who's probably got Asperger's is susceptible to her predations (it's reminiscent of Lucy van Pelt continually pulling the football away on gullible Charlie Brown; aspie is obviously not an adherent of the Bushism, "Fool me twice, cant get fooled again."). Now including myself all of the ILIs there are fully aware that the EIE trucks in transparent boolsheet, and even the aspie knows this even though she usually walks right into it. The general consensus is that the EIE is more noisy than threatening, more tedious than convincing. Although the EIE's unremittingly scathing vitriol has sent a few IEIs bawling and has spread baseless innuendo within the larger group, she's yet to alter the thinking, self-image, or behavior of a single ILI. Not one*. They've almost all fought back, criticizing her hypocritical duplicity and self-aggrandizing bile. Since her propaganda is generally specious at best it's more risible than hazardous. In fact she's tired of me ignoring or ridiculing her frontal assaults and has found me far more responsive when my friends are maligned, i.e. when she's exploiting mobilizing Fi, not vulnerable Fe.

* Except, of course, the alienation and suspicion that naturally develops over time in response to such a person.

So why aren't these ILIs or I falling prey to zombification?

• -'s contextualization of data finds what's untrue about lies, roots out their motivations and goals, anticipates how they'll manifest and under what conditions, and devises means to combat them.
• Mobilizing is rarely affected adversely except by damage to valued persons, relations, or self esteem.
• Suggestive is often likelier to yawn at or be amused by feigned shows of force than it is to be intimidated by them.
• Vulnerable ... ? You mean that curious alien substance examined clinically like a bug in a jar and utilized with conscious and studied effort? It really isn't a liability here except for its handicap at proactively controlling desirable social atmospheres or impressions.

So the idea of EIEs brainwashing ILIs just strikes me as untrue.

Also, Ashton can chime in with his thoughts on this if he wants but he recently mentioned in conversation that supervision is probably a two-way street. It took very little reflection on my dealings with EIEs and LSEs to see that this is actually correct.

Ok, time for a change in direction (this means I'm gonna kinda be a dick for a while...don't tell anyone).

My EIE instructor introduced me to existentialism and caught my worldview off-guard with some life-questioning questions and ideas, especially suicide(I swear at the time I thought he was the Devil, dude had a real nasty look, like a serpent; I also thought he was too pushy with ideas I considered delicate.

I'm sure you'll argue or "******, LOL!" Fe-ishly in response again but to me this sounds like:

• "caught my worldview off-guard" jarring principles fed to acc- and realizations from cre- discombobulated DS-
• "life-questioning questions and ideas" same as above, further giving mob.- a tweak
• "suicide" foreign introduced, not spontaneously self-generated, sending mob.-/PoLR- spinning into the guardrails
• "I swear at the time I thought he was the Devil" /
• "dude had a real nasty look" /
• "like a serpent" /
• "I also thought he was too pushy" constrained and negative = -PoLR hit
• "ideas I considered delicate" encroachment on , violation of by Se-valuing badman

The whole thing screams "Ji, Ji, JIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!" A little contrast: I personally came to existentialism at age five after a week's nightly prayers were finally answered, but by the all-annihilating null-space of the trackless void, not that nice Jesus fellow I'd been told about who'd be my guiding star. Nothing shocks me about a world devoid of objective morality or meaning, perpetually in relativistic freefall: for the finite agent within the universe's infinite scope and power, life is absurd and ultimately unendurable. Nor is there likely to be anything beyond the grave but release from consciousness's strange comedy. Further, my response to contrary viewpoints is skepticism and possibly eventual rejection, often of an active and even polemic sort, i.e. "That's fucking stupid and it's offensive that you poison the ignorant and credulous by propagating nonsense", not "O LAWZ I GOTSTA REJIGGER ALL MY THINKINZ FROM SCRIZZATCH OR I'M FINNA DIIIIEEEEE". I'm not afraid to tell morons or morons with bad breath to step back, and there's hardly anything too horrific or grotesque for me to examine or discuss. Now I certainly can't say this is true for all ILIs, but the ones I know all have sufficient familiarity with controversial ideas and actual blood and guts that they'd hardly feel alarmed by discordant ideas presented by an insistent or insidious person. Your response is just way too Ji-oriented (look to your buddy tcaud and how he handles himself when faced with heretics). So again, I think you're LII, which explains why your understanding of the Ni-Te mind seems more textbook than experiential.

[Absurd]

Get ******, Obersturmführer, Jinxi and UFOs in your quadra, this is Ashton speaking. Oh you already did, okay. Jingle bells!

[Timeless]

Join the Mobile Infantry and save the Galaxy. Service guarantees citizenship. Would you like to know more?

[Jinxi]

[mfckr]

Join the Mobile Infantry and save the Galaxy. Service guarantees citizenship. Would you like to know more?

[Lotus]

my closest friends here are an ni-enfj (female) and ni-intp (male) couple. they're very happy, loving, almost brother and sister like. (they were best friends for years and lived together in the enfj's parents house before dating years later, so its probably not type-related)

they get into passive-aggressive fights where they silently chain smoke to show they're mad at each other. she's (enfj) described it as almost "telepathic" arguing. lol

[Jinxi]

Childish k0rp being childish.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Childish k0rp being childish.

I learned it from you.

[Jinxi]

I learned it from you.

I wasn't even alive when you strove to become childish, pops.

[Korpsy Knievel]

my closest friends here are an ni-enfj (female) and ni-intp (male) couple. they're very happy, loving, almost brother and sister like. (they were best friends for years and lived together in the enfj's parents house before dating years later, so its probably not type-related)

they get into passive-aggressive fights where they silently chain smoke to show they're mad at each other. she's (enfj) described it as almost "telepathic" arguing. lol

Interesting. I've gotten on pretty well with most EIEs I can think of. They're generally a sharp lot so there's much to discuss provided we don't have clashing values.

[Creepy-]

Nice thread.

[EyeSeeCold]

 

]ESC's idea seems like it deserves its own thread, especially since it's a two-headed beast. So here we is.



Here's a little story about DJ's dream girl: Within a particular scene there are a number of ILIs and a mean ol' EIE. She's a vituperative narcissist who entertains herself with scurrilous attacks and smear campaigns. Of the half-dozen or so ILIs who are present, only the one who's probably got Asperger's is susceptible to her predations (it's reminiscent of Lucy van Pelt continually pulling the football away on gullible Charlie Brown; aspie is obviously not an adherent of the Bushism, "Fool me twice, cant get fooled again."). Now including myself all of the ILIs there are fully aware that the EIE trucks in transparent boolsheet, and even the aspie knows this even though she usually walks right into it. The general consensus is that the EIE is more noisy than threatening, more tedious than convincing. Although the EIE's unremittingly scathing vitriol has sent a few IEIs bawling and has spread baseless innuendo within the larger group, she's yet to alter the thinking, self-image, or behavior of a single ILI. Not one*. They've almost all fought back, criticizing her hypocritical duplicity and self-aggrandizing bile. Since her propaganda is generally specious at best it's more risible than hazardous. In fact she's tired of me ignoring or ridiculing her frontal assaults and has found me far more responsive when my friends are maligned, i.e. when she's exploiting mobilizing Fi, not vulnerable Fe.

* Except, of course, the alienation and suspicion that naturally develops over time in response to such a person.

So why aren't these ILIs or I falling prey to zombification?

• -'s contextualization of data finds what's untrue about lies, roots out their motivations and goals, anticipates how they'll manifest and under what conditions, and devises means to combat them.
• Mobilizing is rarely affected adversely except by damage to valued persons, relations, or self esteem.
• Suggestive is often likelier to yawn at or be amused by feigned shows of force than it is to be intimidated by them.
• Vulnerable ... ? You mean that curious alien substance examined clinically like a bug in a jar and utilized with conscious and studied effort? It really isn't a liability here except for its handicap at proactively controlling desirable social atmospheres or impressions.

So the idea of EIEs brainwashing ILIs just strikes me as untrue.

Also, Ashton can chime in with his thoughts on this if he wants but he recently mentioned in conversation that supervision is probably a two-way street. It took very little reflection on my dealings with EIEs and LSEs to see that this is actually correct.

Ok, time for a change in direction (this means I'm gonna kinda be a dick for a while...don't tell anyone).



I'm sure you'll argue or "******, LOL!" Fe-ishly in response again but to me this sounds like:

• "caught my worldview off-guard" jarring principles fed to acc- and realizations from cre- discombobulated DS-
• "life-questioning questions and ideas" same as above, further giving mob.- a tweak
• "suicide" foreign introduced, not spontaneously self-generated, sending mob.-/PoLR- spinning into the guardrails
• "I swear at the time I thought he was the Devil" /
• "dude had a real nasty look" /
• "like a serpent" /
• "I also thought he was too pushy" constrained and negative = -PoLR hit
• "ideas I considered delicate" encroachment on , violation of by Se-valuing badman

The whole thing screams "Ji, Ji, JIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!" A little contrast: I personally came to existentialism at age five after a week's nightly prayers were finally answered, but by the all-annihilating null-space of the trackless void, not that nice Jesus fellow I'd been told about who'd be my guiding star. Nothing shocks me about a world devoid of objective morality or meaning, perpetually in relativistic freefall: for the finite agent within the universe's infinite scope and power, life is absurd and ultimately unendurable. Nor is there likely to be anything beyond the grave but release from consciousness's strange comedy. Further, my response to contrary viewpoints is skepticism and possibly eventual rejection, often of an active and even polemic sort, i.e. "That's fucking stupid and it's offensive that you poison the ignorant and credulous by propagating nonsense", not "O LAWZ I GOTSTA REJIGGER ALL MY THINKINZ FROM SCRIZZATCH OR I'M FINNA DIIIIEEEEE". I'm not afraid to tell morons or morons with bad breath to step back, and there's hardly anything too horrific or grotesque for me to examine or discuss. Now I certainly can't say this is true for all ILIs, but the ones I know all have sufficient familiarity with controversial ideas and actual blood and guts that they'd hardly feel alarmed by discordant ideas presented by an insistent or insidious person. Your response is just way too Ji-oriented (look to your buddy tcaud and how he handles himself when faced with heretics). So again, I think you're LII, which explains why your understanding of the Ni-Te mind seems more textbook than experiential.

Yes. Let's all ignore the context of my situation because I gave enough information needed to understand where I'm coming from.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOz3sV_em8Q

Poor choice.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Yes. Let's all ignore the context of my situation because I gave enough information needed to understand where I'm coming from.

If you'd like to explain why you felt mortally threatened by an EIE in simple conversation while other ILIs subjected to daily malice by another EIE only found it tiresome, I'd be glad to hear it. Otherwise the account you gave of your reaction to a personally alien or discordant philosophy (i.e. existentialism, which in my experience is a fairly common and natural worldview among ILIs, esp. the Ni set) makes more sense as that of a static type than that of a dynamic one.

Poor choice.

By preferring the "hey everybody, we learned to play our instruments" flash and polish of White Zombie's latter-day, Los Anglicized butt-metal over the shambling and deranged audio swamp beast of their earlier, Lower East Side NYC "Kings of Scum-Rock" sound, you've indicated a preference for less chaos and dissonance, and more explicit and emotive-semiotic content. Call me buck nuts, but from where I stand that degree and form of ambiguity intolerance smacks of valued Ti/Ne/Si/Fe.

[EyeSeeCold]

If you'd like to explain why you felt mortally threatened by an EIE in simple conversation while other ILIs subjected to daily malice by another EIE only found it tiresome, I'd be glad to hear it. Otherwise the account you gave of your reaction to a personally alien or discordant philosophy (i.e. existentialism, which in my experience is a fairly common and natural worldview among ILIs, esp. the Ni set) makes more sense as that of a static type than that of a dynamic one.

Explain my penis in ur butt

By preferring the "hey everybody, we learned to play our instruments" flash and polish of White Zombie's latter-day, Los Anglicized butt-metal over the shambling and deranged audio swamp beast of their earlier, Lower East Side NYC "Kings of Scum-Rock" sound, you've indicated a preference for less chaos and dissonance, and more explicit and emotive-semiotic content. Call me buck nuts, but from where I stand that degree and form of ambiguity intolerance smacks of valued Ti/Ne/Si/Fe.

This is ridiculous. You know nothing of my music taste.

Lastfm?

[rat1]

I've seen ENFjs knock INTps out of conversations pretty brutally. INTps sometimes play these social games to demean people / inflate their egos and ENFjs kill them when they try that shit. Brainwashing.. isn't the right word at all. ENFjs just dominate the social sphere and INTps are left on the sidelines. That's about all I've noticed between them.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Explain my penis in ur butt

That belongs to the realm of the unpossible, just like your being non-alpha. Also: fucking gross, gaymind.

This is ridiculous. You know nothing of my music taste.

I'm well aware that you've linked tunes supposedly adrip with Ni (TIME, OOOOOOOOOO, THEY MENTIONED TIIIIIIIIME!) to paint yourself in borrowed gamma colors.

I've seen ENFjs knock INTps out of conversations pretty brutally. INTps sometimes play these social games to demean people / inflate their egos and ENFjs kill them when they try that shit. Brainwashing.. isn't the right word at all. ENFjs just dominate the social sphere and INTps are left on the sidelines. That's about all I've noticed between them.

There is some truth to this since EIEs are natural expert manipulators of public sentiment, an area where the ILI is certainly gimped. That said, EIEs also engage in these tactics proactively to puff themselves up by demeaning others, so it isn't wholly reactive or defensive.

[Korpsy Knievel]

I've seen ENFjs knock INTps out of conversations pretty brutally. INTps sometimes play these social games to demean people / inflate their egos and ENFjs kill them when they try that shit. Brainwashing.. isn't the right word at all. ENFjs just dominate the social sphere and INTps are left on the sidelines. That's about all I've noticed between them.

There is some truth to this since EIEs are natural expert manipulators of public sentiment, an area where the ILI is certainly gimped. That said, EIEs also engage in these tactics proactively to puff themselves up by demeaning others, so it isn't wholly reactive or defensive.

[EyeSeeCold]

That belongs to the realm of the unpossible, just like your being non-alpha. Also: fucking gross, gaymind.

Assuming the realm of unpossibility exists. Also: no u.

I'm well aware that you've linked tunes supposedly adrip with Ni (TIME, OOOOOOOOOO, THEY MENTIONED TIIIIIIIIME!) to paint yourself in borrowed gamma colors.

Let me lay it out for you, since you don't seem to stand under.

Do...you...have...a...lastfm...account?

[Korpsy Knievel]

last.fm is of limited personal value and I visit it veeeeery infrequently, so no, I have no account there.

[EyeSeeCold]

last.fm is of limited personal value and I visit it veeeeery infrequently, so no, I have no account there.

Then you, sir, have no valid musical opinion, since, apparently, you are not a music junkie.

[rat1]

There is some truth to this since EIEs are natural expert manipulators of public sentiment, an area where the ILI is certainly gimped. That said, EIEs also engage in these tactics proactively to puff themselves up by demeaning others, so it isn't wholly reactive or defensive.

Well yeah everyone does that shit. I didnt mean this as a moral reprimand on INTps. It's more about how INTps do it which makes them fail at it. They try to alienate the person they're making fun of. Just look at how you / cpig ban people when you're provoked even in the smallest way. Look at Nanashis first impulse whenever someone 'degrades women' (in her eyes). It will work at times, or it will fail and you'll alienate yourself. ISTps do the same, and EXTjs will but to alot lesser extent. Anyway in these polr situations the EXFj just responds by actively blocking your attempt; siding with / including the person in question.. they establish dominance and you're the one left alienated.

[Valori]

The members of this place certainly have an interesting sense of humor.

I wish.

[Timmy]

Well yeah everyone does that shit. I didnt mean this as a moral reprimand on INTps. It's more about how INTps do it which makes them fail at it. They try to alienate the person they're making fun of. Just look at how you / cpig ban people when you're provoked even in the smallest way. Look at Nanashis first impulse whenever someone 'degrades women' (in her eyes). It will work at times, or it will fail and you'll alienate yourself. ISTps do the same, and EXTjs will but to alot lesser extent. Anyway in these polr situations the EXFj just responds by actively blocking your attempt; siding with / including the person in question.. they establish dominance and you're the one left alienated.

Baloney. Rarely will I challenge an EXFj over something trivial, but when the issue at stake is important to me, I've no problem at all standing my ground and winning support for my perspective. I do so by actively undermining/ridiculing the Ti sentiments underlying his/her opposing position (even if the particular EXFj cannot see where I'm coming from, others do) and supplanting that position with my own Fi judgments. I've learned that my unresponsiveness to Fe cues can be used to my advantage. When Fe dominants attempt to sour my mood with Fe, they find they don't get far. My dad, (LSI) simply crumbles under my ESE mom's occasional histrionics (it's like he becomes a slave to her Fe). He loses his balance and perspective when this happens and with it any and all control over the situation. I, along with most ILI's I know, don't have this problem.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Then you, sir, have no valid musical opinion, since, apparently, you are not a music junkie.

Firstly, your objection is predictably evasive (you seem unable to help yourself, sp-lead instinct stacking, no doubt*) and completely fatuous.

 

You're so confrontation-averse that there's hardly anything left on this list for intellectualism.

post
Quote:
Reserved

You are somewhat shy, or at least unwilling to spend all your time socializing. With you it's true that "still waters run deep," which is why many of your acquaintances never get to know you well.
You are not always ready to talk at the drop of a hat. Whether you're in the office or at a party, you're not likely to be found gabbing away in the middle of a group of people.

Solitary

You are a private person, not very comfortable in a big group, and view excessive socializing as a waste of time.
You not prefer hanging out with others to spending time alone; you do not tend to feel at home in a crowded room, club, stadium, or auditorium.

Discreet

You tend to hold onto your thoughts until you have something important to say, and even then you're not comfortable imposing your ideas on others unless you know they're truly interested.
You don't enjoy talking for the sake of talking, and you have no desire to be the center of attention.

Upbeat

You enjoy being around others and others enjoy being around you. You have a "live and let live" attitude; because you know that no one's perfect, you are forgiving and happy to give the benefit of the doubt.
You don't feel the need to be controversial or express contrary opinions all the time. You see no reason to go around rubbing people the wrong way.

Cautious

You very rarely make a move without first considering the pros and cons and, therefore, rarely do anything foolish or extravagant.
You are not rash; you almost never act before you think and, therefore, rarely end up doing things you later regret.

Introspective

You like your own company; you're a very interesting person. Tracking your own mental processes, knowing what you're thinking and why you do what you do, is important to you. Often, what's going on in your mind is more compelling than what's going on outside. For the most part, those with a high score on the "introspective" trait enjoy reading, taking long walks, learning new things, and other solitary activities.
You are not someone who is constantly looking to be among a group of friends; you never feel bored when you are by yourself.

Creative

You are good at solving problems, coming up with original ideas, and seeing connections between things, connections that most other people miss. People with a high score on the "creative" trait often are employed in such fields as finance and scientific research, and enjoy avant garde and classical music as well as literary fiction and scholarly non-fiction.
You do not shun abstractions and concepts in favor of the concrete and tangible.

Loose

You feel that a clean, orderly desk is the sign of a person who doesn't have enough to do. Schedules and "to do" lists feel stifling; you thrive on a sense that anything goes, and know that the world won't end if you don't clean up after finishing a job.
You don't need to know that everything is in its place; it is not empowering to you to feel that the world around you is neat and organized. Mowing down every item on your "to do" list, every day, does not bring you joy.

Curious

You like to get to the bottom of things. You're not content knowing what someone did; you want to know why they did it.
You don't simply take things as they are and move on; you're not content skimming along on the surface; you don't feel you're wasting time by digging for the meaning of things.

Private

You don't see the need to share what you're thinking and feeling with everyone in the world, and you tend to present yourself in a somewhat formal way in order to keep your inmost thoughts to yourself. A high score on the "private" trait is a likely indicator that you are among those who can be happily occupied at home, away from the crowds, but, when the time comes, are equally enthusiastic about packing your bags and taking a trip.
You do not consider yourself a "free spirit," whatever that may be, and you're not comfortable expressing yourself without a bit of self-censorship.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...9&postcount=56 (page saved and screengrabbed as well, btw)

Secondly, last.fm is best suited for the Ne-Fe crowd who seeks novel stimulation for its own sake. In an Ni-Fi fashion I prefer listening to what suits my mood without being interrupted by unwanted sentiments or unexpected aesthetic discord, either of which will sidetrack my thoughts (I dislike radio for the same reason). Also, ignorant ass and likely consumer-only music lover, come run your mouth after you've played in numerous bands, released albums and compilation tracks, engineered/produced other people's recordings, quit jobs to continue playing/recording in pursuit of "the life", and gone through tens of thousands of dollars of music equipment and albums, often at the expense of pussy shit like health insurance or life savings.

And let's have some socionicking from you to illustrate your points instead of your usual softshoe routine. I almost feel a little bad beating you up when you refuse to even try defending yourself.

The members of this place certainly have an interesting sense of humor.

I wish.

I want your skull.

[Korpsy Knievel]

The members of this place certainly have an interesting sense of humor.

I wish.

I want your skull.

[Pa3s]

Then you, sir, have no valid musical opinion, since, apparently, you are not a music junkie.

I heard Mozart and his friends Bach and Beethoven didn't have last.fm accounts either. I guess people should stop listening to them since they apparently don't even know what music is. However, I'm sure Rebecca Black has one.

[EyeSeeCold]

Secondly, last.fm is best suited for the Ne-Fe crowd who seeks novel stimulation for its own sake. In an Ni-Fi fashion I prefer listening to what suits my mood without being interrupted by unwanted sentiments or unexpected aesthetic discord, either of which will sidetrack my thoughts (I dislike radio for the same reason). Also, ignorant ass and likely consumer-only music lover...

Lastfm has a music scrobbler that you can download to log your plays client-side. You don't have to use its radio.

Ignorant ass.

come run your mouth after you've played in numerous bands, released albums and compilation tracks, engineered/produced other people's recordings, quit jobs to continue playing/recording in pursuit of "the life", and gone through tens of thousands of dollars of music equipment and albums, often at the expense of pussy shit like health insurance or life savings.

Whatever old man. I don't want to hear about how you failed in life and should have went to college.



See you at what.CD. Move Along.

[Absurd]

I see you've got some problems with your creations there korpsey

[rat1]

Baloney. Rarely will I challenge an EXFj over something trivial, but when the issue at stake is important to me, I've no problem at all standing my ground and winning support for my perspective. I do so by actively undermining/ridiculing the Ti sentiments underlying his/her opposing position (even if the particular EXFj cannot see where I'm coming from, others do) and supplanting that position with my own Fi judgments. I've learned that my unresponsiveness to Fe cues can be used to my advantage. When Fe dominants attempt to sour my mood with Fe, they find they don't get far. My dad, (LSI) simply crumbles under my ESE mom's occasional histrionics (it's like he becomes a slave to her Fe). He loses his balance and perspective when this happens and with it any and all control over the situation. I, along with most ILI's I know, don't have this problem.

What you quoted was one example of one of ILIs functions - Fe polr - interacting with one of the ENFjs functions - Fe dominant. This is the main function interaction responsible for placing ENFjs in the dominant position. Obviously the types have 8 functions and the interactions are alot more complicated than polr hits. And what I wrote there is an extreme example of the ILIs polr in action - when Fe polr is attempting to ostracize a person. Why use an extreme example? To clearly illustrate the point. In regular conversation, the functions are more subtle. ILIs are not constantly trying to ostracize people (at least not so clearly that you'd notice it). The functions are subliminal most of the time. So no, it isn't baloney, it's your failure to interpret my writing correctly. And infact your response doesn't seem to speak to what I even said.
Challenge ENFj over something trivial? I never mentioned that.
Maybe you think you're standing your ground, but the ENFj is in a dominant social position the entire time.
Undermining Ti? Undermining the supervisor just doesn't work very well. Even if you're right, you still lose.
I also didn't say ILIs are internally affected by Fe. I said they are ostracized by the polr hit. Im sure you crawl off into your crawlspace thinking you've come out logically superior, but look around and you'll notice you're in a crawlspace. Anyway I don't think you're a great example of a stereotypical ILI. Because I think you act like a pussy. You're a hybrid of some sort.

[EyeSeeCold]

Good night k0rpsey

[Korpsy Knievel]

Lastfm has a music scrobbler that you can download to log your plays client-side. You don't have to use its radio.

Fe-valuing LII seeks social validation by logging his listening history (which in itself satisfies Ti's drive to categorize) in hopes of impressing others. Still cannot explain how EIEs brainwash ILIs, resorts to usual sloppy diversions, dodges, and other panicked escape attempts.

Whatever old man. I don't want to hear about how you failed in life and should have went to college.

Translation: In addition to being an agoraphobic chickenshit and loudmouthed charlatan unable to formulate substantial counterclaims, LIISeeCold plays no instruments and has neither recorded nor played with any bands. As such his musical opinions are nothing more than those of an adoring fanboy who begged mama for money that he might buy songs and dwell within other people's dreams.

Also, expect to hear from Jinxi's lawyers for stealing his material, you ridiculously huffy weasel poof.

the ENFj is in a dominant social position the entire time.

The EIE still requires a friendly or credulous audience to maintain dominance. Quite often this relies on ignorance of facts so appearances can be distorted. If these conditions are absent or if for any reason people aren't receptive to the EIE's manipulations then they can easily backfire. Superior ability doesn't guarantee success.

[Korpsy Knievel]

the ENFj is in a dominant social position the entire time.

The EIE still requires a friendly or credulous audience to maintain dominance. Quite often this relies on ignorance of facts so appearances can be distorted. If these conditions are absent or if for any reason people aren't receptive to the EIE's manipulations then they can easily backfire.

[Creepy-]

I rather enjoy last.fm. I have discovered many excellent bands just from being a member.

[Absurd]

I rather enjoy last.fm. I have discovered many excellent bands just from being a member.

[Korpsy Knievel]

It's certainly useful for that purpose but Youtube has much the same content and is more self-directed and random-access. Looking up bands' tourmates and other bands named in album liner notes are just as useful for finding new music.

I'm still chuckling over why anyone would log their listening history (aren't you present while the music is playing and thus, I'd hope, capable of recollecting what you've heard?) or boast about belonging to a piracy site. Weridos. Perhaps they've been brainwashed by ENFjs.

[Creepy-]

I'm not going to try to defend last.fm much, but I used to go up there quite a lot. Just... a way to pass the time, I guess. I don't go there much anymore, but I never uninstalled it (or care to, really), so my tracks still scrobble.

Maybe some people use the data for some purpose? Hm... it might be more useful to other entities for other reasons.

The last part of your post was .

By far, the most interesting and useful ability of last.fm is to find other people with similar music tastes and thus find new bands. I'm sure it's easy to find tons that way. Yeah, you could use Youtube or some other tool as well, but... meh. There's just something different about last.fm that I can't place my finger on.

[Korpsy Knievel]

I'm not calling it bad, just less useful for me than other resources.

Let's keep those zombification stories rolling in so we can protect ourselves from the next psychic assault!

[Timmy]

Maybe you think you're standing your ground, but the ENFj is in a dominant social position the entire time.
Undermining Ti? Undermining the supervisor just doesn't work very well. Even if you're right, you still lose.
I also didn't say ILIs are internally affected by Fe. I said they are ostracized by the polr hit. Im sure you crawl off into your crawlspace thinking you've come out logically superior, but look around and you'll notice you're in a crawlspace.

I just don't relate to being clobbered by Fe leading people -- neither personally nor socially. Perhaps that's related to my Fe POLR and hence inability to accurately gauge my influence on the "emotional dynamic," perhaps it's not. I tend to think it's not.

When I am irredeemably embittered to a person (the threshold is quit high), or have judged that person a legitimate liability to my well being or to the well being of others about whom I care, I find I have little trouble convincing others also to shun that individual (granted, I get less far in an alpha heavy crowd, which is part of the reason I avoid alpha groups). I'm well aware that I cannot out-compete an Fe strong individual on Fe terms should one decide to defend my target, so I do not try to undermine my target in a way that is susceptible to Fe intervention. Instead, I initiate a drawn-out campaign to shift the consensus against that person. I strategically lay traps for the person to get tangled in; I make a couple of pointed remarks when others are already beginning to have their own doubts about the person; I focus my efforts on managing the impressions of those with the greatest sway over the social situation.

Ultimately, my intent is to create as large a shift as possible in the underlying social dynamic with as little intervention as possible. The goal is to redefine the situation to my liking in such a way that few (especially the target of my manipulations) are aware that there has been any manipulation at all. A would-be Fe leading adversary to my scheme wouldn't have a clue that I was up to anything at all (especially my conflictor, ESE). By the time others' disdain for the targeted individual has become apparent in an Fe sort of a way, already the group's Fi/Ti disposition has shifted.

Mind you, I try not to let my personal sentiments get too mixed up in all of this. Hating somebody is a necessary but insufficient criterion for my publicly turning against them. If there is no incredibly persuasive reason to go against that person, I try my best to like that person, to see the good in him/her. This is partially because I consider it more conducive to mental health and stability to think well rather than ill of other people, partially because I feel giving others the benefit of the doubt is the right thing to do, and partially because I'm aware that my ability to leverage social influence is maximized when I stay on the good side of as many as possible.

Anyway I don't think you're a great example of a stereotypical ILI. Because I think you act like a pussy. You're a hybrid of some sort.

I try to avoid pointless fights and usually prefer to build up rather than tear down others. Attacking others needlessly always leaves me feeling bad about myself long term. I don't see how any of this suggests I'm not ILI.

[Creepy-male]

If its so self-evident ILI's are secure from EIE's then this is a lot of effort to go to in order to prove this, one may think your trying to convince more than just the people on this board.

[Timmy]

If its so self-evident ILI's are secure from EIE's then this is a lot of effort to go to in order to prove this, one may think your trying to convince more than just the people on this board.

LOL.

You know there's nothing an ILI likes better than a good, old-fashion intellectual debate.