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Thread: Fi and Sensitivity/Tact

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    Default Fi and Sensitivity/Tact

    How much of tact is -related, and how much of it is age-related? I know that even as a ego, I can look back on times in my adolescence where I wasn't thinking about the other person's feelings. Do you think people grow into it? What's your experience?
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    I don't think it's necessarily either. Fi isn't about tact. It's more about processing these things through your own filter, how you relate to them. So you could think something would bother you if it were said to you, and therefore you might choose not to say it, which would show tact. On the other hand, you could figure if something wouldn't bother you, it shouldn't bother someone else. And I've seen people with Fi in the ego block assume that and say that.

    I think people of various types could be tactful, maybe by processing their decisions of what to say in different ways.

    People could get more diplomatic as they age, but not necessarily. Some people's egos get more inflated and they care even less about others as they get older.
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    Would that mean the general presence or absence in someone's speech could not be used in typing?
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    I guess very generally people who value Fi might more often value tact than those who don't, but I don't think that by itself is enough, personally. There are more and less tactful people of all types. And there are different reasons why someone might be tactful, not all of which would be explained by Fi. I mean I can think of a few reasons off the top of my head: empathy, thinking it's polite or fitting the social atmosphere, thinking it will make a desired objective more accessible, thinking someone has earned a position of respect, thinking it's simply nice. And then there are a number of possible explanations that have nothing to do with socionics at all, such as being raised with good manners, being a nice person of any type, and being in a good mood.
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    Personally, I do feel that it's more related to Fi; that is, you will tend to find it in more Fi types than in Fe types. This doesn't necessarily mean all Fi people will be tactful, and all Fe people not tactful. It's the same kind of thing as Fe PoLR people who, on the whole, would laugh less than Fe leading people. It's not that Fe PoLR people don't laugh (as I used to foolishly think); it's just that laughter is generally associated with Fe, so it will be more noticeable and frequent with Fe types.

    Going back to Fi and sensitivity - comparing me (Fi PoLR), and my 19 year old SEE (thus Fi creative) brother. He often calls me on my potentially insensitive/tactless statements, actions and overall demeanour when in social situations (or even family situations). I obviously react with a "so what" attitude; it's not important to me that I might be acting a bit too harsh or obnoxious for those around me. I know that statement in itself sounds crude and obnoxious, but I find it REALLY hard to empathise with people about, say, swearing. This is because - unlike "imagine if someone played music into YOUR bedroom when YOU were trying to sleep - saying to me "imagine if someone wasn't sensitive about YOUR issues, I would reply with "yeah, and? Wouldn't bother me". In short, he is far more tactful and sensitive than me, and the only difference between us type-wise is that we have our logics/ethics swapped around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    people call me out a lot more often on my lack of tact, than ones do.
    folks probably just notice it more and feel the need to tell you about it when it's lacking. The pointing it out part doesn't necessarily correlate to other people actually being tactful themselves though. If that makes sense.

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    Hmm. for me feels generally undisruptive as a method tact, and I wouldn't want to confuse that with what I see from s, which is a much more deliberate process of gauging what they're supposed to be doing with people based on which values they expect to unify them with others. is a lot more subjective, where as will have traceable ethical application for something that may prove different and bothersome, or generally prove worthy of similar company, that makes it objective. is a lot more about following one's individualized feeling, reaction or ethical stance, which could very well be about sympathizing with others. It intends for one's emotions to stay intact, where outward expanse is not thoroughly gauged but rather internally filtered. But like also differs from person to person in one's reasoning as well as context externally gained from it (if something done proves tactful), based on what kind of environment they are used to. I definitely don't think one information element is responsible for tact and sensitivity.

    Basic example. My ESE mother might feel to a degree of objective expectation that people shouldn't be so goofy, and so as her child similarly press this upon me. Therefore I may have an internal disposition being formed around the idea that I should be serious and tactful at an individual level, and my disposition may differ depending on if the context activates enough of this feeling.
    Last edited by 717495; 04-26-2011 at 10:09 AM.

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    Conversely extroverts can ignore inner thought and trample on and be controlling of others feelings.

    Using this definition
    " a keen sense of what to do or say in order to maintain good relations with others or avoid offense "

    Then Fi and Fe polrs would be comparatively tactless. Age brings expirience and that is the main source for the 3rd and 4th functions so they would improve somewhat.


    Ezras example was a good one for logics, like ILI basically is blind to Fe and is also very bad and tends to be hypocritical and judgemental about Fi ( weak Fi blocked with Se). For comparison to a Fe or strong ethics type, I might act like ezras example (when neccesary and am aware of said boundary) because I often feel the same way and when Fi overreaches with controlling prosletyzing "we know best" controlling parent attitudes and is being hypocritical. I might either preface my statements with a certain tone/affect, and with the knowledge of anothers Fi principles being fundamentally unsound and the functioning of is far worse than the Fi hit I take. To attempt to have good relations with all at the total expense of abandoning reason and principle is fundamentally insane to me and group sheeple think.
    Perhaps ezra would state things more bluntly, aggresively or without any consideration of how to minimize Fi hits. It could have been best to just leave. I think the difference here is the tact with tact, the dimensionality of the response to minimize bad effects. There was probably very little Fe emotionality in his voice. (weak but valued fe)

    In my interactions with LSE who has role Fe, 5th Fi, and polr Ni they will miss emotional cues in the atmosphere and come to bullheaded conclusions about what has transpired emotionally based on a contextual example. For instance, in Super Bad (right after evan comes out from being drunk and having awkward angst about the bullshit nature of teen relations and yet somehow falling into the same pattern) the LSE thought Evan was a pussy douche when he was talking to Gabby as if he needed to immediately be a macho manly type and fuck the shit out of her (see also george bush ex: death penalty,war) as LSE often acts toward women. But obviously Evan is not like this in any way and would be totally lost and be shitting on his own ego. Also the Fe they put off is not personal, its somewhat artifical and trying to fit in, I would make a joke and get too much response or none at all. Then they think we're all good because they laugh at my jokes but miss the quizzical faces I throw at their response. The complexity is lost. Yet LSE has this other side where they get butthurt about Fi(connected with si for delta) and get sensitive. (Dont want to put a personal example here, think of something like cleaning -george bush-abortion, religion, " family values" etc).
    Last edited by jughead; 04-26-2011 at 12:08 PM.

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    idk, i try to be tactful except when i decide its not necessary/worth it or i'm purposefully untactful to make my feelings clearer or i just forget to think and stick my foot in my mouth. lol. so yeah i don't think i have any special relationship to tact as an Fi base type. maybe i have more awareness though - but i think the awareness comes more from Fe type cues in the moment than from a static sense of "whats tactful and what isn't." if that makes sense.

    i think i agree with slacker. could the presence or absence be used for typing? hmm. i think most people are pretty polite at a distance anyway so there are probably better things to go by.

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    tactfulness/tactlessness and tactfulness/tactlessness are completely different, I'd say, but more-or-less equal overall...

    I've been blind to quite a few times before, one time due to me playing a basketball game - the game heated up, the ball escaped my control on a pass that should have went towards my teammate, and headed into a crowd of people, in particular his brother's girlfriend

    me to her - "are you okay? everything alright?"
    her to me - "yep, I'm ok! "
    me to her - "awesome awesome! didn't mean to get you, I'm wiped out here!"

    and then when the event could have resolved, a cousin of mine who wasn't involved in the game (not even as a spectator) interjected:

    cousin to me - "did you say you're sorry?"
    me to cousin - "wha-... she knows I didn't mean for that to happen, I think we all do..."
    cousin to me - "you should still say you're sorry..."
    me to cousin - "what good would that do? "

    all this time of course, the game's not going on, no one's having a good time, and there's a confused vibe all around... the girl who got pegged (who's an athlete, and knows how things go down sometimes) seemed far more uncomfortable about the interruption than the flubbed pass that went her way... so eventually, me to the athlete girl:

    me to her - "sorry about that you know I didn't mean for that to happen, right?"

    she smiled back to me (she was smiling all when I was talking every time, but it got a little bigger, or something else of general approval happened)... the cousin left...


    ...and then the game continued!





    Another odd F incident happened during that game, but not in a bad way at all - a shorter, sturdy dude was bringing on the defense, and my foot got mega stomped

    him to me - "whoa... sorry, man... (stammering) ..."
    me to him - "dude, you don't gotta feel bad about anything, you were in the zone, it happens! you've got the D!"

    He felt good after that and the game carried on, but I don't think I held as something important then...

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    I'm tactfull to most people. I am not if I find you to be a variation of the following: douchebag/tactless person/agressive person/you piss of someone I like.
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    Fi tiptoes around. It's very tactful. Like crouching tiger hidden dragon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    tactfulness/tactlessness and tactfulness/tactlessness are completely different, I'd say, but more-or-less equal overall...

    I've been blind to quite a few times before, one time due to me playing a basketball game - the game heated up, the ball escaped my control on a pass that should have went towards my teammate, and headed into a crowd of people, in particular his brother's girlfriend

    me to her - "are you okay? everything alright?"
    her to me - "yep, I'm ok! "
    me to her - "awesome awesome! didn't mean to get you, I'm wiped out here!"

    and then when the event could have resolved, a cousin of mine who wasn't involved in the game (not even as a spectator) interjected:

    cousin to me - "did you say you're sorry?"
    me to cousin - "wha-... she knows I didn't mean for that to happen, I think we all do..."
    cousin to me - "you should still say you're sorry..."
    me to cousin - "what good would that do? "

    all this time of course, the game's not going on, no one's having a good time, and there's a confused vibe all around... the girl who got pegged (who's an athlete, and knows how things go down sometimes) seemed far more uncomfortable about the interruption than the flubbed pass that went her way... so eventually, me to the athlete girl:

    me to her - "sorry about that you know I didn't mean for that to happen, right?"

    she smiled back to me (she was smiling all when I was talking every time, but it got a little bigger, or something else of general approval happened)... the cousin left...


    ...and then the game continued!





    Another odd F incident happened during that game, but not in a bad way at all - a shorter, sturdy dude was bringing on the defense, and my foot got mega stomped

    him to me - "whoa... sorry, man... (stammering) ..."
    me to him - "dude, you don't gotta feel bad about anything, you were in the zone, it happens! you've got the D!"

    He felt good after that and the game carried on, but I don't think I held as something important then...

    This actually seems like Fi to me. Or butthurt Fe. Seriously. Its a stereotypical politness norm misused...you checked up on her and really did apologize, just not in the words some butthurt overprotective cousin wanted to hear. Sounds to me like he was jealous.
    Fe or Fi lead, or actually weak F cousin. In that case I would respond with my own creative Fe.

    Whats your type?
    Last edited by jughead; 04-27-2011 at 09:31 AM.

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    The post about botox interferring with feeling others emotions made me think how Fe polrs work. Since they don't pay attention to the Fe of others that function becomes even weaker and when given too much Fe they're liable to explode because its an overload. Kindof like autistic people.
    Last edited by jughead; 04-27-2011 at 10:15 AM.

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    Some people, on occasion, mentioned that I can, at times be tactful in certain situations for one reason or another. But, I don't remember it being attributed to though. I do, however, remember it being attributed to -PoLR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jughead View Post
    This actually seems like Fi to me. Or butthurt Fe. Seriously. Its a stereotypical politness norm misused...you checked up on her and really did apologize, just not in the words some butthurt overprotective cousin wanted to hear. Sounds to me like he was jealous.
    Fe or Fi lead, or actually weak F cousin. In that case I would respond with my own creative Fe.

    Whats your type?
    SEE! the girl that got pegged was probably SEE as well, me and her got along great, lots of energy, athletic, really easy to talk to...

    The cousin's one of those really quiet girls that gets a bit harsh about a thing or two that I don't see coming, but we've got lots of things in common (we're both vegetarian/vegan, into the DIY stuff, like cats an absolute ton, lots of the same values and all)... she's an awesome girl!

    It might be a family thing - a lot of them have a certain quiet/witty/reserved thing going on, and I'm a fish out of water there

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    not really.
    Fi = tact insofar as it deems a relationship "doable"/worthy and thus it decides to protect it and work towards its success. Otherwise it can be ruthless. Imo Fe is more fluid and/or flexible in this respect. Also Fi can just be slightly more ambiguous or covert ...which others may perceive as diplomacy ...? no idea.

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    Tact is not type related. Some are tactful in so far as the way they want to come off or in the way that they want to be accepted by either a society or an individual. I'm not socially tactful as in I don't care what others think of me. For example my bf noticed that I didn't wear my shoes to my own party where everyone wore shoes. I simply didn't notice because fitting in and conforming to be accepted isn't something that I note of. However when I take note of what a person who I want to get close to likes or finds acceptable I'll try to do that even though I really don't care either, because I shouldn't. I shouldn't...that is the moral judgement. I should be myself but I've learned the hard way that extraverts care to fit in and they look for someone who does, so I get close then dump those rules. lol
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 12-22-2014 at 02:08 AM.

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    Well, going by classical Jungian theory, which isn't a perfect match, introverted feeling needn't be much related to how you affect others, and can be a very self-submerged thing. It goes by a sort of inner sense of the consistency (or more like harmony, better word) of feeling judgment.
    It's not necessarily rationalizing based on visible effects.

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    Well according to @Suz bare bottom spankings are Fi-Polr -- so I'm just a tactless dolt

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    Well according to @Suz bare bottom spankings are Fi-Polr -- so I'm just a tactless dolt
    would you stop with that??? that's not what i was saying! lol


    EDIT: though idk, maybe...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    would you stop with that??? that's not what i was saying! lol


    EDIT: though idk, maybe...

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    Quote Originally Posted by chemical View Post
    Well, going by classical Jungian theory, which isn't a perfect match, introverted feeling needn't be much related to how you affect others, and can be a very self-submerged thing. It goes by a sort of inner sense of the consistency (or more like harmony, better word) of feeling judgment.
    It's not necessarily rationalizing based on visible effects.
    that is correct

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    Quote Originally Posted by jughead View Post
    The post about botox interferring with feeling others emotions made me think how Fe polrs work. Since they don't pay attention to the Fe of others that function becomes even weaker and when given too much Fe they're liable to explode because its an overload. Kindof like autistic people.
    Autistic People overload?

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